Episode #20 Mormon Doctrine In the Apocrypha W/Ken Peterson

1
00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:07,500
So I have a question if Joseph
Smith really restored the

2
00:00:07,508 --> 00:00:10,400
gospel, we should be able to
look back to ancient prophets

3
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,600
and their teachings.
And we should see that those

4
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,200
line up with what Joseph Smith
taught, right?

5
00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,000
Well, on this episode of the
podcast, have a conversation

6
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,100
with Ken Peterson.
Ken is a devout lifelong member

7
00:00:21,100 --> 00:00:24,100
of the LDS church.
He recently released a book

8
00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:27,800
titled, Mormon Doctrine in the
Apocrypha in the book.

9
00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:31,600
Ken lines out where teachings
from the Apocrypha are exact

10
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,200
matches to the teachings of the
restored.

11
00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:37,000
For start by Joseph Smith, we
cover Ken's back story.

12
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,900
How he got involved writing this
book.

13
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,500
His process in selecting
material some of the content of

14
00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:46,000
the book and ultimately what Ken
hopes that the book will do for

15
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,800
Mormons.
That's next on this edition of

16
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:55,700
the Mormon Renegade podcast.
So, I just want to take a moment

17
00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:57,700
to thank you.
The Listener, when I started

18
00:00:57,700 --> 00:01:00,300
this podcast I wasn't sure if
anyone would really listen.

19
00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:02,900
Now to my surprise, this thing
has taken on a life of its own

20
00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:05,700
and that's all due to you the
listener, spending your time

21
00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:08,700
here with me, and it means a
great deal to me now, as a

22
00:01:08,708 --> 00:01:11,600
husband and father, I'm keenly
aware of how important time is.

23
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,500
It feels like there's just never
enough of it.

24
00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:16,100
So when you are spending your
time here, listening to this

25
00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:20,300
podcast, I feel a responsibility
to never waste your time in that

26
00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:22,200
Spirit as this podcast has
grown.

27
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,100
I feel like I need to do you The
Listener.

28
00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:28,200
Just This, I want to continue to
produce good content and upgrade

29
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,700
the audio quality that takes
better equipment and better

30
00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:33,600
software and that all takes
money.

31
00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,400
Now, I've tried to advertise,
but you'd be surprised.

32
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,800
There's not a lot of people want
to advertise on a Mormon

33
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,300
fundamentalist podcast.
I know surprising right now if

34
00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:44,900
you want to help support the
podcast, you can do that.

35
00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:47,800
One of two ways.
The first is go over to Mormon

36
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,300
Renegade.com and hit the Donate
tab there.

37
00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:54,300
You can make a one-time donation
or you can go ahead.

38
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,400
And set it up to be a monthly
recurring, donation your choice

39
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,700
entirely now.
Option number two because I'm a

40
00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:03,100
capitalist.
If you want to head on over to

41
00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:06,100
Mormon Renegade.com, click on
the store button.

42
00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,100
You're going to find that.
We've got some new swag out, we

43
00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:13,600
got some T-shirts, we have a
tote, we have cell phone cases,

44
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,600
water bottles, coffee cups.
We got a bunch of stuff in more.

45
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,600
It's going to be on the way.
So if you feel like, that's

46
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,400
something you could do again,
head on over to Mormon Renegade

47
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,000
and check all that stuff out.
If you're not in that position

48
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,900
to do.
So I completely understand.

49
00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,700
We're all squeezed right now
with high gas prices and high

50
00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:33,900
inflation.
So even if you can't please keep

51
00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:36,900
listening and maybe keep the
podcast in your prayers, so we

52
00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:41,100
can continue to grow produce.
Good content, and better audio

53
00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:42,300
quality.
Thank you.

54
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,100
Welcome back to the Mormon
Renegade podcast, as always you

55
00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:50,500
can get ahold of me either by
email at Mormon Renegade at

56
00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:53,700
gmail.com.
You can also get a hold of me on

57
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,000
Instagram, and Twitter, and
getter under the handle.

58
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,200
Mormon Renegade.
Also we have a website up and

59
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,300
that's Mormon Renegade.com, so
go check that out.

60
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,700
Can thanks for being here, man.
Thanks for having me.

61
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,300
So I'm just glad you appreciate
the book.

62
00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:13,500
Yeah, I know, I've had a couple
days to go through it and I

63
00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:15,100
think it's absolutely
phenomenal.

64
00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:18,600
I mean, the way that you lay it
all out, the way you are able to

65
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,000
say, hey, go here and look for,
you know, look, you know, you

66
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,200
give your references so it makes
it real easy to do your own.

67
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,300
Research to which is absolutely
awesome.

68
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,700
Good, so, real quick, we're were
you born LDS?

69
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,600
Were you raised?
Yes, let me.

70
00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:37,300
Yeah, I was raised in a of those
little Mormon towns and Wyoming,

71
00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:42,200
probably one of the lesser-known
communities in the Bighorn Basin

72
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,200
area.
It's what was one of the last

73
00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:48,400
colonization efforts in the
church place called Cowley.

74
00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:52,900
Okay, named after the
disfellowshipped apostolate is

75
00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:56,700
Callie, okay, All right.
What was that like was that kind

76
00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,200
of cool being raised out there
is paradise.

77
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:00,600
Whatever.
Nice.

78
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,900
I mean, when I was growing up,
you know, in the 60s and the

79
00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:09,000
70s, we didn't have much.
We had dirt roads and our water

80
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:15,400
supply was not great but as a
kid growing up there was it

81
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,300
couldn't have been more
beautiful.

82
00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:23,300
The Summers seemed to last
forever everybody up to this

83
00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,300
day.
The communities Communities much

84
00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:29,100
improved, you know, purest water
in the state, paved streets, and

85
00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:33,900
sidewalk curb and gutter now and
it's a I love to go back to

86
00:04:33,907 --> 00:04:35,300
visit.
I have lots of family there.

87
00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:38,900
Still today, my mother still
lives there in the same house, I

88
00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:44,200
grew up in.
Wow, I it was wonderful, one of

89
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,900
those communities you get on
your bike and your mom was a

90
00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,900
welcome back for dinner.
Yeah.

91
00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:52,800
And you'd go wherever you want
it with your friends and mess

92
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,000
around and have you know, Some
fun.

93
00:04:56,100 --> 00:04:59,600
You know, I moved my family.
Gosh.

94
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,700
I want to say, well, over a
decade now ago, we moved to a

95
00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:08,100
little town, just south of
excuse me, just north of Twin

96
00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:14,600
Falls called Shoshone and it was
like stepping back 75, 80 years

97
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,100
in terms of just a tiny little
town, kind of isolated had

98
00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:21,900
everything there, you needed had
a grocery store gas station.

99
00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:26,200
Few places to go and eat, but by
and large, it was just kind of

100
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,300
like a town Time Forgot.
Yeah.

101
00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:33,600
And I remember when we moved
from from, you know, the Western

102
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,800
Treasure Valley in Idaho Boise
in a meridian, and we moved out

103
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,600
there, it felt like we could
breathe, right?

104
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,700
We could just let the kids kind
of wander around a little bit

105
00:05:41,700 --> 00:05:43,200
and didn't have to worry as
much.

106
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,800
And it was, it was so nice and
it broke our hearts when we had

107
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,600
to leave there.
At was right before the collapse

108
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,400
of 08 and we had to go look for
work other.

109
00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:55,300
Basis.
But yeah, I miss that kind of

110
00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:58,700
environment all the time, but
we're to this day, my wife and I

111
00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:03,200
are tempted by the community
like that, especially

112
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,400
colleagues, lots of family
around, would be ideal to raise

113
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,300
our children, right?
You know, but the question is as

114
00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:12,200
adults, what I mean, how would I
support us there?

115
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,600
You know, that kind of a thing,
right?

116
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,100
Because there's really no money,
right?

117
00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:17,900
You know?
Technology is a great thing.

118
00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,000
I mean, I'm doing this by
technology, right?

119
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,900
We have talked all the way
across Ross, the state in real

120
00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:27,000
time, but sometimes I think
we've lost something too a

121
00:06:27,008 --> 00:06:30,300
little bit.
So I'd much prefer having this

122
00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:33,400
conversation in person.
I mean, yeah.

123
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,400
There's no no question in my
mind.

124
00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:36,600
Yep.
Yep.

125
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,500
So was it a strong LDS home?
A lot of gospel teaching and

126
00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:42,900
that sort of stuff in your home.
Yeah.

127
00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:48,100
Yeah my mom and dad both devout
Latter-Day Saints.

128
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,800
Both had been raised Latter-day
Saints.

129
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,500
My mom's side.
Gosh, probably third or fourth

130
00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:01,700
generation Latter Day Saints on
my father's side.

131
00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:10,300
Maybe two generations, but it
wasn't if you've heard the term

132
00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:12,300
Uber Mormons, right?
Yeah.

133
00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:15,200
But there's a little bit on the
crazy side things.

134
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,900
My parents weren't like that at
all.

135
00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:26,100
They loved us and to give you an
example, We did we'd have home

136
00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:30,900
evenings, fairly regularly and
family prayers.

137
00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:36,400
But they never made us coerced
us to believe or to do anything

138
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,800
like that.
And I remember very distinctly

139
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,800
my dad telling me said son, you
know what I believe.

140
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,100
That you have to figure it out
for yourself.

141
00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,300
And so they were, you know, we
talked about moroni's, promise

142
00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:55,300
that if you do your own invest
your own time and restarts that

143
00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,200
God will tell you, so you don't
have to believe anybody else.

144
00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:03,900
And as we'll discuss during our
time together, I'm a

145
00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:08,300
natural-born skeptic And plus
all the schooling.

146
00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:13,200
I've had my secularly train
scholar which only exacerbates

147
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,100
your skepticism, right?
I don't believe, I don't believe

148
00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:19,400
anybody at face value.
I don't take anybody at face

149
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,700
value.
I need you to give me concrete

150
00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:30,200
reasons to take your word for
it, and that was my approach to

151
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,900
the restored gospel.
So, a very loving home.

152
00:08:34,900 --> 00:08:38,400
I have four.
Well, six siblings.

153
00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:43,299
I'm the fifth and they were all
devout.

154
00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:47,100
And so there was that kind of a
kind of a natural reinforcement.

155
00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:49,900
I wasn't in terms of peer
pressure.

156
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,900
I didn't understand what that
was.

157
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,000
Because my family, my brothers
and sisters were my peers, they

158
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,900
were good to me and they were
exemplary and I had no reason.

159
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,200
I never felt any need for
outside validation.

160
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,600
It still left me kind of
independent of the trends of

161
00:09:09,608 --> 00:09:11,500
what was going on in the world.
What my friends were.

162
00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:14,600
We're not doing because what
matter most to me where the

163
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,300
opinions of my siblings and my
parents not because they forced

164
00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,300
me to, but because they were
good to me and I can see how

165
00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:22,900
good they were and I respected
that.

166
00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:31,900
So in all earnestness I wasn't
particularly scholarly as a kid,

167
00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:37,100
I was interested in motorcycles
and Girls and basketball in that

168
00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:40,900
sort of thing.
But as a junior in high school

169
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,000
here each kind of a choke point
in your life where it's like I

170
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,300
need to it's going to be this or
that, right, right?

171
00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:51,300
And that's when I really
invested myself.

172
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,900
In a cold hard look.
At the truth claims of the

173
00:09:56,908 --> 00:10:01,800
Latter-day Saints.
So real quick being a skeptic

174
00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:03,700
and I can I can identify with
you.

175
00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,700
I mean, I remember when I was
first reading the book of Mormon

176
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,200
and I got my confirmation that
it was true.

177
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,200
I was like, I don't want to be a
Mormon.

178
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,500
They're kind of crazy.
I don't want to do this because

179
00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:20,500
I'm naturally skeptical, right
great.

180
00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:24,400
But that that confirmation you
can't deny.

181
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,600
So you got to kind of put some
things in faith.

182
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,000
Was there a time?
During your upbringing where you

183
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,600
were questioning things quite a
bit?

184
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:38,400
Because I mean on the surface,
if you If you are a skeptic that

185
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,900
whole Joseph Smith, First Vision
thing, that's bat-crap crazy,

186
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000
right?
This is funny.

187
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,100
You should mention that my first
memory of hearing the account of

188
00:10:49,108 --> 00:10:52,600
the first Vision, I was sitting
in Sunday school or something

189
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,700
that six or seven years old.
And I distinctly remember

190
00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:58,400
thinking to myself, well, he's
lying.

191
00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,200
Right?
I might my best friend across

192
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,500
the street makes up stories
better than that all the time

193
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:07,400
just to get attention.
It was far easier for me to

194
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,600
believe that he was just trying
to get attention, then that he

195
00:11:10,608 --> 00:11:13,400
was telling the truth.
I mean, trying to aggrandize

196
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,300
himself as being the prophet of
God etcetera.

197
00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,700
So, from the very GetGo, I was
skeptical even as a kid.

198
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,500
I never just, I never sat there
and went I believe telling you,

199
00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:28,300
I believe, whatever you tell me
I was never was never like that.

200
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:29,100
I don't know.
Oh, why?

201
00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:37,400
And I so I I love to meet with
people who don't come by their

202
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,500
faith naturally or they're not.
And I wouldn't call myself a

203
00:11:41,508 --> 00:11:45,400
spiritual person either.
I do believe I have received

204
00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:51,800
Revelation and insights through
the Holy Ghost, but that is only

205
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,300
as the result of priming the
pump as they say, investing

206
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,000
investing the work and looking
and doing comparative.

207
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,500
Analyses studies and I can't
begin to tell you everywhere.

208
00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:09,500
I've looked I've gone down every
rabbit hole that I know of

209
00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:12,700
because I'm one of these guys
that I don't like to be ignorant

210
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:18,900
of any in any case, I was always
skeptical and it wasn't until

211
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:25,700
much later in high school when I
began to be exposed to

212
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:36,900
archaeological discoveries.
There were extraordinary and one

213
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:42,700
of my formative experiences of
Zon I serve to Youth mission in

214
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:49,100
Bozeman Montana and I was still
actively searching for A

215
00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,600
knowledge of what is true
because I still didn't know what

216
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,000
that time.
Well, actually, at that time I

217
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,500
just had this transformative
experience where I first had

218
00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:01,700
some concrete knowledge in my
mind.

219
00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:04,600
Oh my gosh.
Joseph Smith was telling the

220
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,300
truth.
I was so excited and we went to

221
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:08,900
this appointment with this
Christian.

222
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,900
Evangelical Christian, who knew
the Bible inside?

223
00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:18,200
Now you could see it is.
Bible's just this is bajor all

224
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800
curled.
Yeah, so I went in there with my

225
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,600
bright, shiny new testimony and
was telling him, you know what,

226
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,700
I knew to be true and he
proceeded to bind and gag me

227
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:34,400
with his Bible and I was I was
utterly embarrassed.

228
00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:40,100
Not because he had diminished to
my beliefs, but because I still

229
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:44,500
knew what I knew.
But I was so ill prepared to

230
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:49,000
defend what I knew I was
embarrassed, if I couldn't they,

231
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,600
you know, when I actually came
down to discussing the nuts and

232
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,900
bolts of Christianity, at least
as a starting point, I was a

233
00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:02,300
failure.
And I vowed to myself at that

234
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:06,300
very moment that I would never
let that happen again. if I were

235
00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:14,200
going to be, if I were going to
be a representative of what I

236
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,700
had come to understand to be
true that I was going to do a

237
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:23,000
lot better.
At being able to defend what I

238
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,100
knew to be true and I've spent
my life pursuing that incident,

239
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:31,100
I never look back.
I've never I was 17 at the time

240
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:37,700
and since then I've never I've
never questioned.

241
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,600
Well, I always question I'm
always asking the questions

242
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,100
because it's still unbelievable.
You know, it's the craziest

243
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:52,300
Story Ever Told number one,
number two, I mean, I understand

244
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:57,300
perfectly, well, how the World
Views Joseph Smith, and the

245
00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,300
Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints because

246
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,000
that's, that's my viewpoint.
That's the skeptical view point,

247
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,800
right?
And it is Fantastical add to the

248
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,300
death.
I mean, what are the odds,

249
00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:13,200
honestly, against you and I
being born at this time?

250
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,900
In the 4.5 billion history of
this globe.

251
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,400
And being a part of this.
I mean, it's their astronomical,

252
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,100
they're impossible.
Odds, I was out.

253
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:26,600
It is just a coincidence that
you.

254
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,800
And I are born Here.
And Now, with this Silver Spoon

255
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,100
in her mouth, that's the hardest
thing for me to believe.

256
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,400
Yeah.
The science is statistical

257
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,200
probability rule that out
entirely right?

258
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,200
And yet and yet, here we are.
Yep, at the Pinnacle of human

259
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:44,600
development.
Yep.

260
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,900
Yep.
So that's amazing.

261
00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:50,800
To me, let me ask you this,
what, what was it?

262
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:56,300
That ultimately converted you to
the gospel?

263
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:07,500
Matthew chapter 7 I want to read
it because I want to make sure I

264
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:11,200
get it right.
I remember I was on this Youth

265
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,500
mission, I had a great
companion, was very patient with

266
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:18,300
me.
And so I just drove in and I

267
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:22,700
remember thinking, if Jesus
Christ really was, who he said

268
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:25,700
he was, he would know of my
dilemma.

269
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:28,600
And he would know what to tell
me.

270
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,500
And and miraculously,
miraculously shortly after that,

271
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:39,800
I was reading a Matthew 7:15, as
beware of false prophets, which

272
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,300
come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly, they are ravening

273
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:45,800
wolves.
So, the first question is well,

274
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,100
which was Joseph Smith then?
Was he a ravening wolf?

275
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,200
Or is he the real deal?
Because Jesus is admitting that,

276
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,000
there were going to be false
prophets, you will know them by

277
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,400
their fruits, do men, gather
Grapes of thorns or figs of

278
00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,100
thistles.
Yes.

279
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:05,400
And just skeptical mind like me.
That's like duh of course I

280
00:17:05,408 --> 00:17:08,300
mean, this is science.
That's what it is, right?

281
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,099
Even so every good tree bringeth
forth, good fruit but a corrupt

282
00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:15,800
tree bringeth forth, evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth

283
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,200
evil fruit.
Neither can a corrupt tree bring

284
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,400
forth.
Good fruit every tree that

285
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,800
bringeth not forth.
Good fruit is hewn down and cast

286
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,599
and for wherefore by their
fruits you shall know them and

287
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,600
even though I had I wouldn't
call myself a scriptorium by any

288
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:36,300
stretch at that time of my life.
I had been raised in the middle

289
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:41,500
of this faith.
And and I remember sitting in

290
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:46,600
the car, we were going to some
appointment in Montana. and I

291
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,600
had these questions and ideas
swirling around in my mind and I

292
00:17:50,608 --> 00:17:56,100
had committed myself that I was
going to study every religion on

293
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,700
the face of the Earth so that I
can person can be using figure

294
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:03,900
out which one I wanted to be
affiliated with then, of course.

295
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:06,000
The soon as I thought of that,
the thought occurred to me,

296
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,800
well, that's impossible.
Because the new their new

297
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,400
religious being established
everyday.

298
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,700
You will never ever speak to me
your whole life, you can't do

299
00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:19,300
it.
It's impossible for can Peterson

300
00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:22,100
to figure that out.
On your own.

301
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:28,700
And it's funny that the
Revelation comes at a point of

302
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:32,000
desperation and humility.
You do it?

303
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,400
Yep.
I was I was desperate enough.

304
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:40,300
I I really couldn't move forward
without some understanding

305
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:43,600
number one.
Number two, it was abundantly

306
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,700
clear to me that I on my own I
was I was never going to happen.

307
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:53,700
It was at that moment that I had
this But a Joseph Smith call it.

308
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,400
I gotta read that.
I love this.

309
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,000
I'll tell you about this in a
second, but no you're good.

310
00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:06,400
Those are Smith described as a
person, may profit by noticing

311
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,000
the first intimation of the
spirit of Revelation.

312
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,700
For instance, when you feel pure
intelligence flowing into you,

313
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,800
it may give you sudden Strokes
of ideas and thus by learning

314
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,800
the spirit of God and
understanding it, you may grow

315
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,800
into the principle of Revelation
until you become perfect.

316
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,600
In Christ, give you seven
strokes of ideas and the Science

317
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,900
World calls at the Eureka moment
where suddenly it hits you and

318
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,100
you didn't think of it didn't
doesn't feel like you thought of

319
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:38,800
any way.
Sarah was my moment of

320
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,500
desperation and abject humility.
Going on, about you selling all

321
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:44,400
of these things that were
swirling.

322
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,000
These pieces that were swirling
around in my mind.

323
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:53,700
Came together.
And it Revelation took what I

324
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,700
did know, which wasn't a lot but
it was significant because I had

325
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,200
grown up in the middle of it,
right?

326
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,500
And put it in the context of
Matthew Chapter 7, every good

327
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:08,500
thing in my life.
Including the good choices that

328
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:12,900
I made were a direct result.
Of what Joseph Smith restored.

329
00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,100
And it was interesting because I
had grown up in this, Mormon

330
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,500
bubble and out here.
I was in the world.

331
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,400
And it was eye-opening to me
that it was not the same.

332
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,600
That everything I loved about
where I grew up was a direct

333
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,200
result.
Of the restoration through

334
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,500
Joseph Smith.
Everything I didn't like about

335
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,000
the world was the absence of all
of that.

336
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:47,100
And to my young mind that was
undeniable fruit, it was no

337
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,700
accident and it wasn't and I
wasn't alone everywhere.

338
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:56,100
I looked in every devout LDS
Community LDS fan, when you saw

339
00:20:56,100 --> 00:21:03,000
those same wholesome, positive
healthy, Good traits.

340
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,700
An evil tree cannot bring forth
a corrupt.

341
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,700
Tree cannot bring forth good
fruit anyway, that's where it

342
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:16,500
started, you know, and it's
fascinating and the the more I

343
00:21:16,508 --> 00:21:22,500
talk with people, the more I
realize that Everybody's road to

344
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:28,000
the recognition of the who the
savior is and who Joseph Smith

345
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,000
is comes in a little bit
different way, right?

346
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:36,400
I remember when I was praying to
get my answer about the restored

347
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:45,100
gospel, it was a very strong
Feeling to my core that I could

348
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:48,700
not deny.
And it happened quickly and it

349
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,500
happens suddenly, right?
Right?

350
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,200
It's instantaneous isn't it
right?

351
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,300
So what I get it.
Yeah.

352
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,900
And then I hear your story and
I've heard very similar stories

353
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:03,500
where it kind of a gradual
process a little bit and then it

354
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:08,900
works up to something right and
we approach it from different

355
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,000
things.
I have I have this experience.

356
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,700
That changes me fundamentally to
my core, right?

357
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:22,800
Eight quickly instantaneously.
And it's all done from the

358
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,400
heart.
It's all work on the emotions

359
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:32,200
and in the heart You come at it
from a very academic point of

360
00:22:32,208 --> 00:22:36,500
view, a very scholarly point of
view, but here's the thing.

361
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,000
It accomplishes the same thing
and it's so beautiful to me that

362
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,800
the Lord works with who we are.
He doesn't seek to necessarily

363
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,800
change who we are at our core.
But no, it's about being able to

364
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,900
work with us where we are and
then bring us to a knowledge and

365
00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:00,200
understanding of the
truthfulness of the Gospel per

366
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,300
our strengths, which I find
amazing.

367
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:06,400
Because here's the thing, right?
Being an emotional guy, what

368
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,400
we're doing this Works great for
me.

369
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,900
This works.
Fantastic for me, you as a

370
00:23:11,908 --> 00:23:14,900
scholar problem.
I'm just guessing.

371
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,200
Love research.
Oh yeah, love you love tearing

372
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:23,200
it apart, put it back together,
seeing how it works and in some

373
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,200
levels, I think, I think And
this is the the genius of the

374
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,600
program.
I guess if you want to say it

375
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,000
that way we all kind of need
each other.

376
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,800
That way right here you're
singing my song Good that

377
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,000
without pain Peterson doing this
research, that I want to talk to

378
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,300
him about without the the
natural gifts that he's given.

379
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,700
And I would say that being being
somewhat skeptical is absolutely

380
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:54,000
a gift, right?
Because you have different

381
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,000
gifts.
Yeah, we all do Doug, Eat,

382
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,300
right?
And so I don't know, I think

383
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,700
it's just genius the way it all
comes together.

384
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:04,900
An LDS caller called it, the law
of individual differences.

385
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,800
And book of Abraham points this
out, that none of us are the

386
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,600
same.
We never have been the same.

387
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,600
And then, of course, the Apostle
Paul puts it all together.

388
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,400
Me compares the church to the
body.

389
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:23,200
Yeah, we have the fact that
we're all different is necessary

390
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,200
for the body to function.
If we were all the same the body

391
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,400
wouldn't function, right?
So our differences are not

392
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,100
something that we put up with
our differences.

393
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:32,800
Are things that we should
celebrate.

394
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:39,600
Yeah, and I love, that's my one
of my favorite hours of the

395
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,100
entire week is Gospel Doctrine
and I get to teach it.

396
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:48,500
I'm teaching it now.
But to be able to share our

397
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:52,900
comprehension understandings,
testimonies feelings regarding

398
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,800
the most profound Concepts known
to man being able to call them.

399
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,500
The terrible questions is
fascinating because there is

400
00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:05,800
something to learn from every
single other person because

401
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,000
they're coming at it from a
slightly different angle and now

402
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,000
the bottom to bottom line that
we are invaluable to God.

403
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:18,600
Because of that very Very thing.
Each of us, as individuals are

404
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:22,500
irreplaceable in the grand
scheme of the scheme of things

405
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:25,500
in my father's house are many
mansions.

406
00:25:26,300 --> 00:25:29,800
I have created a place for you.
So what he says in the Doctrine

407
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,900
and Covenants, past tense, that
there is a place for each of us

408
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:38,100
in the Eternal scheme of things
that can be occupied by no one

409
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:43,100
else.
We are irreplaceable, you know,

410
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:45,200
valuable to God, and that's
something.

411
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,100
I didn't know until I became a
father myself, right?

412
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,900
And we all at least I did when
we started having kids me and my

413
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:54,100
wife, I always thought.
Okay.

414
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,000
These will just kind of be like,
spitting images of me and my

415
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,900
wife, right?
Nothing could be farther from

416
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,400
the truth, right?
My kids while they certainly

417
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,500
have certain characteristics of
mine both physically, and in the

418
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:12,500
way they act, And the same can
be said of my wife, right?

419
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:15,200
Hurt.
You know, our daughters have her

420
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,900
characteristics physically.
And, and in the way they act, at

421
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,900
the end of the day, they're
still people and they still have

422
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:27,200
come, come up with things on
their own because they are

423
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,100
people.
I can't I can't wait to see how

424
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:31,900
they develop and who they
become.

425
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:36,000
Yeah, it's just, it's like a,
it's like opening a gift and

426
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:42,200
watching it.
I mean, Will be the last thing I

427
00:26:42,208 --> 00:26:45,200
would want is to see a copy of
myself, right?

428
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,300
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.

429
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:51,900
But as you say it's also a very
interesting Eternal question.

430
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:54,200
Why do we have similarities at
all?

431
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,500
Yeah, yeah, you know have ideas
but I'm not going to make to

432
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:03,800
them online.
Ha ha, you know, I What's been

433
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,100
fascinating to me?
Are you a grandfather yet?

434
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:10,300
Yes, II.
Have to fact, ones, living to

435
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:16,200
this living with us right now,
here his mom and he's about to

436
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,500
have another baby.
So we're like let's take the

437
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,100
graduations.
Yeah, grandbaby for a while.

438
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:28,100
What's been most fun is to see
my kids raise their kids and

439
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:32,400
that that has been just
absolutely fun and fascinating.

440
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:36,800
A whole nother level.
But yeah, no, I think we need

441
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,500
each other.
We need each other's gifts

442
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,200
because we all have something to
contribute here, right?

443
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,100
I mean, this isn't a zero-sum
game in the sense of, you know,

444
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:49,600
some of us are going to Excel
and others of our won't.

445
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,500
I think it's a matter of finding
out how it is.

446
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,900
You click with the gospel and
then use that strength and at

447
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:59,400
the same time, develop those
weaknesses, a little bit.

448
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,700
I'm in the end choose exactly
where you want to fit in this

449
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:06,800
grand scheme, right?
As you say, it's not binary.

450
00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:12,500
It's not black and white and a
section 76 shock to the world

451
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:17,000
that the degrees of Glory.
Well, let's take it, further

452
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,000
section, 88, There is no space
in which there is no Kingdom and

453
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,900
there is no kingdom in which
there is no space which suggests

454
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:31,100
the potential infinite variety
of glories that we can choose to

455
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:33,000
be a part of by our own
volition.

456
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:37,800
There is no other way and
absolutely absolutely.

457
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,300
So you have your experience, you
go on a mission, do you enjoy

458
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,900
your mission?
Loved it, Ike's, I served it was

459
00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:50,000
called a Youth mission.
I grew up in the Montana

460
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,700
Billings Mission.
That's where Northern Wyoming.

461
00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:55,000
That's the mission.
It was in and they were having a

462
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,000
shortage of missionaries.
A number of them, that went home

463
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:02,500
at the same time.
So they to pre-staged young men

464
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:05,400
who were interested.
They allowed us to go out and

465
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,400
serve for a month or two.
Oh, wow, with full-time

466
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,700
missionaries, and that
experience changed my life.

467
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:20,200
For the better.
That's where I kind of Had them

468
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:26,600
the right circumstances to be
able to spend the necessary time

469
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,900
pondering studying and asking
God about these things.

470
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,800
Not a great companion and
formative experiences.

471
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:43,200
That established that foundation
for me anyway. the other thing

472
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,300
that happened to me on that
mission, that was The seedling

473
00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:53,000
for the book, this was in the
late 70s 1978.

474
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:58,100
There were a cassette tapes
circulating around you know

475
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:01,800
copies of copies of copies and
the that have riding on this

476
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,900
looks at Tate, the Dead Sea.
Scrolls tapes, my companion was

477
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:08,100
like who you need to listen to
this.

478
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:12,100
I like Devin, what?
I hadn't heard anything about

479
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:14,700
it.
There were some of the very

480
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:18,600
first paperback printings of
what was available.

481
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,100
Then of the Dead Sea, Scrolls
were just beginning to be

482
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,800
published Fjord at Theodore
casters first.

483
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:26,900
Paperback edition like, 1976,
something like that.

484
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:35,200
And The Latter-Day Saint,
someone call them an amateur

485
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,900
scholar inner Erickson or was
giving these Sensational

486
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:43,900
lectures.
About the corollaries between

487
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,000
the Dead Sea Scrolls and the
restored gospel.

488
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:49,500
And the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I mean this is a wonderful test

489
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,400
case because the Dead Sea
Scrolls were hidden from the

490
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,500
world for 2000 years.
They predate Christ.

491
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,500
And they weren't discovered
until 1947, I think.

492
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,900
So, we dig them out of the.
Dig them out of a cave in Nicki

493
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:09,000
Minaj's, right?
All right.

494
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,100
It's done jars.
Evidence, Ela bitumen So, here

495
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:18,200
we had these people.
Riding the most valuable sacred

496
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,800
texts burying them in the earth.
Forsaken safekeeping to be

497
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,000
discovered at a later date.
Who else believes that?

498
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,500
That's crazy.
First of all and then they had a

499
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:31,400
ruling Council of 12 and a
presidency of three.

500
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,600
They had Rich for ritual
purifications by by immersion on

501
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,100
all kinds of these things that
only Mormons really thought we

502
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:49,600
kind of believed in so that
fascinated me that was My mind

503
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,200
was first blown open to the fact
that there are other sacred

504
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:58,300
writings in this world that are
not a part of our Bible, nor the

505
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:01,100
Book of Mormon.
But as Latter-Day Saints, we are

506
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:04,600
taught and second.
If I'd that Bible a Bible, we

507
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,900
already have a Bible.
We have no more need of a Bible

508
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:10,000
that there are other sacred
records to come for.

509
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,900
So that was my initiation to
that and I was terribly excited

510
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:18,900
about that.
Much later.

511
00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:22,500
In fact, just a few years ago I
got to meet in your Erickson

512
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,300
toward the end of his life and
he invited me over to see he

513
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,500
lived here in st.
George he invited me to see his

514
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:34,800
Library.
I went down, it was library with

515
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,300
his basement.
In his basement, add the same

516
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:39,000
square footage as the main
floor.

517
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,300
And it was nothing but a
library.

518
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:48,400
Wow, wall-to-wall books and I
think you'd read all of them, he

519
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,400
was amazing and so forthcoming.
And so giving it was time, he's

520
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:57,700
recently deceased but and a lot
of people looked at him ask you

521
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,800
because he didn't come out of
Brigham Young or any academic

522
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,800
Circle, but he was certainly
well read anyway.

523
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,300
So then my full-time mission was
in Japan.

524
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,500
The Japan Foucault commission.
Mmm.

525
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,700
It's a heck of a change.
Yeah, yeah.

526
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:20,400
And I was at first a little
disappointed because I didn't

527
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,600
want my mission to be about
language.

528
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,500
I wanted my mission to be about
Doctrine.

529
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,500
I wanted to go to the Bible Belt
and I wanted to do some.

530
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,000
I wanted to Crunch through the
New Testament with people and

531
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,100
but God knows us better than we
know ourselves and what we need.

532
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,900
The Japanese people were.
How do you put it into where

533
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:48,300
they?
They were wonderful.

534
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:51,700
They treated us quite
wonderfully, not everybody.

535
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:56,600
But most, and as my mind needed
to see more of a worldwide

536
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,400
perspective of how God used this
plan and his children and how

537
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:09,699
that all fits together, but I
would have to say, The single

538
00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:14,199
greatest and most significant
occurrence of my mission was one

539
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:19,300
of my last companions.
His name is Joe swick.

540
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:28,100
And he was my junior companion,
he was the smartest missionary

541
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:32,199
had ever met.
He was a convert to the church

542
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:37,300
as a teenager very well.
Read a prolific reader gave the

543
00:34:37,308 --> 00:34:43,000
missionaries a very hard time
and to had a miraculous

544
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,900
conversion experience.
I don't think I have the right

545
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:54,199
to say it on the air, but sure,
make a long story short, he was

546
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,199
the opposite of me.
I wanted the miracle without

547
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,200
doing any of the work.
He did all the work and never

548
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,600
asked God.
They were filling the font in

549
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,300
the missionary says, was giving
him the interview.

550
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,600
Do you believe the Book of
Mormon to be the word of God?

551
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,100
No, I don't do.
The Joe Smith has brought up

552
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:13,000
know.
I don't.

553
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:15,500
Well, we've answered all of your
questions.

554
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,800
She says.
Yes, you have Did you pray about

555
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,700
it?
He says, no, I haven't oh in

556
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:27,600
their Zeal to answer all of his
questions that neglected the

557
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,700
key.
So in terms of pondering and

558
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:34,500
working it out in his own mind,
hit done all of that in Spades.

559
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,900
And so, the missionary wild
follows finally said, well let's

560
00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:42,400
each of us go and pray.
And because of everything that

561
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,600
was in his head, you have a very
miraculous conversion

562
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,900
experience.
In any case we hit it off

563
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:57,300
beautifully, we had so much fun
as companions and our companion

564
00:35:57,300 --> 00:36:05,200
study time was revelatory.
But his great gift to me, was

565
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,800
Hugh Nibley.
I didn't, I never heard of you

566
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,600
didn't lie.
This is a 1980 82.

567
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:20,200
In farms had just started their
work and at the time all Farms

568
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:26,300
doing they were photocopying
nibblies lectures and stapling

569
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:28,400
them.
And you could buy these

570
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:31,800
photocopied lectures know for
like a dollar eighty or

571
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,600
something for each at the.
So I have this little stack of

572
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,500
nidalee lectures and he
introduced me to Farms to Hugh

573
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:44,100
Nibley and the LDS intellectual
Milieu that holds scholarly

574
00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:47,900
approach to the restored gospel,
which fit me to a tee.

575
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:51,400
I Loved You.
Glee real quick explained it

576
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,900
because I do have some listeners
who aren't Mormon or LDS what

577
00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:59,700
was Farms foundation for ancient
research.

578
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:04,000
Mormon studies.
It was a nonprofit organization

579
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,300
formed and I was in some
burned-out building on campus

580
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:17,200
and their initial goal.
Was to publish The Works of Hugh

581
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,100
Nibley.
That's all they were wanting to

582
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,100
do.
You nibbly.

583
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:23,100
Was the smartest Mormon who ever
lived?

584
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:32,200
And if you don't believe me
Farms completed that work, 40

585
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,800
years later.
And the work is.

586
00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:47,200
Photographs of the summer, the
collected works of Hugh Nibley.

587
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:54,800
Hmm, I think it's 20, that's 20,
20 volumes, I'm talking volumes.

588
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600
I'm not talking about 100 Pages.
While talking in some cases,

589
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:04,300
thousand-page volumes of
original writing, original

590
00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:09,300
thinking, things that no one
else has discussed or put down

591
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:15,000
in print before.
All all the product of one mind.

592
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,600
It was a genius by all accounts
and because of an early

593
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,500
experience in his 20s he had a
life after death experience

594
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:28,600
which set the stage to Humble
him so that he could become a

595
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,000
more effective purveyor of this
knowledge so that his pride was

596
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,400
out of the picture and he could
do what was really important.

597
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:42,000
So yeah, that was the purpose of
the origin of farms is to

598
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,600
publish the works.
If you nibbly, it expanded into

599
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:49,000
much, more than that spanning
publishing, The Works of John

600
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,700
Sorensen, the late, great John
Sorensen, who was the great

601
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:58,600
Anthropologist who laid?
To do it to this day.

602
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,800
The most thorough case for Book
of Mormon geography, he, he knew

603
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,100
the Book of Mormon inside now
anyway, and and John Welch, the

604
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:10,500
discoverer of Thai asmus in the
Book of Mormon.

605
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,700
At all of these began
publishing.

606
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:17,100
They were a magnificent resource
for people like me.

607
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,600
And that was my companion.
Joseph gave me that gift.

608
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:28,800
And anyway, I will always be
grateful to him for setting me

609
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,300
down that path because what you
nibbly showed me, he opened the

610
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:34,900
door, you know, in your exit,
open the door of the Dead Sea

611
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:37,400
Scrolls, you nibbly.
Open the door to all these

612
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,600
other, we should call them extra
canonical, writings sacred

613
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,200
books, that are not a part of
the Bible, right?

614
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,900
The most confusing thing about
the title of my book.

615
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,500
My Doctrine in the Apocrypha
when I Apocrypha can mean,

616
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:54,800
either the 14 intertestamental
books between Malachi and

617
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,800
Matthew that you'll find in the
Roman Catholic Canon or in a

618
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,100
more General sense.
Any sacred texts?

619
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,700
That is not a part of the camp
more appropriately known as

620
00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:07,400
extra-canonical you know Joseph
Smith.

621
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,200
How many of those works are
right.

622
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Joseph Smith had, I believe it's
in the Doctrine and Covenants,

623
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,600
he'd actually mentioned his
chakra for yeah, Crocker from

624
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,400
yeah.
What was what was Joseph's take

625
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,800
on the I prefer.
There are many things that can

626
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,100
be learned there from if one is
Guided by the spirit.

627
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:28,700
Mhm, but there, but it's not all
inspired.

628
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:33,600
So his approach to all other
learning, c key learning from

629
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,200
the best books, right?
And so I took what Joseph Smith

630
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,400
advised regarding the
intertestamental, Apocrypha and

631
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,900
applied it.
To the broader meaning because

632
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:47,300
how many of these other extra
canonical writings, like the

633
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:48,800
Dead Sea.
Scrolls are there.

634
00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:53,500
That was my first question.
When I was started, reading you

635
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:56,500
nibbling and having my mind
blown yet again.

636
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,600
Oh my gosh, how many of these
things are out there?

637
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,300
Because as much as I admire the
mind of he nibbly, I was still

638
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:09,000
skeptical.
Or I was skeptical of Boehner

639
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,800
Erickson that.
It's nice guys.

640
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,800
I appreciate your enthusiasm,
but I want to read these checks

641
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,700
for myself so I want to see if
you're telling me the truth.

642
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,600
So that began in my twenties,
right?

643
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,600
Early 20s, I began to find and
collect my own library of extra

644
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,400
canonical writings and there are
hundreds.

645
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:34,900
Yeah.
Hundreds of So I collected all I

646
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:36,900
could find that.
I think all that there are,

647
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:40,600
although they're still being
published today, a new volume of

648
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,400
extra canonical.
Writings New Testament,

649
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,300
Apocrypha was published a month
after I published my book.

650
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,300
Wow.
And there's there's already

651
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:51,100
stuff in there that I'm going to
have to add 2 second edition,

652
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,900
right?
So when you get home from your

653
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:58,900
mission, you meet your wife.
Would you decide you're going to

654
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:06,300
go to college and study?
I For whatever reason.

655
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:13,300
I love to sing, okay?
And I was really good at and I

656
00:42:13,308 --> 00:42:19,200
had scholarships all my
schooling was paid for because I

657
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,700
would sing in their programs.
Wow.

658
00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:32,000
And I had I was enthralled with
the singing of Luciano Pavarotti

659
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,000
if you're in remember arguably
the greatest tenor of the 20th

660
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,700
century.
And I aspire to do that.

661
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,000
As crazy as that sounds.
You know, a kid in Northern

662
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,300
Wyoming, listening to Italian
opera and wanting to sing

663
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:49,800
Puccini, not having any idea
what that entailed.

664
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,200
I was just going to go for it
and so, I did.

665
00:42:56,900 --> 00:43:02,900
I meant that my first wife at
Rick's College BYU-Idaho where I

666
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:06,900
was studying singing and was
singing in Pirates of Penzance

667
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:10,300
seing the role of Frederick and
had a wonderful experience there

668
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,500
from there.
I had a scholarship to sing for

669
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:18,100
Arizona State University that a
very demanding and advanced

670
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,400
musical, theater degree program
or a singing musicals operas and

671
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:28,500
operettas from there.
Went to Utah State, where I met

672
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:35,100
and study with Michael balam was
saving influence in my life and

673
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:37,900
career had a marvelous
experience there.

674
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:41,500
Got my bachelor's degree and
then staying at Illinois, State

675
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:45,100
University, for my masters
degree and voice performance

676
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,100
started teaching.
And ultimately got my terminal

677
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:53,500
degree doctor of the Arts and
voice performance and pedagogy

678
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,500
at the University of Northern
Colorado.

679
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,400
So I spent the next 28 years
teaching singing in higher

680
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,800
education, which is what brought
me to st.

681
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,300
George to teach at what the time
was.

682
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:12,100
Dixie State College and taught
there for 16 glorious years.

683
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:15,400
Had marvelous success.
Has an award-winning

684
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,000
Productions, hundreds and
hundreds of great students.

685
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:24,400
It was just an ideal atmosphere
But as all things do that came

686
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,200
to an end, the administration
did a number on me.

687
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,100
That was the end of that career.
So gotcha and this whole time

688
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:36,200
you're just collecting books of
the oh yeah right I mean this

689
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,100
whole time you're just you're
just going through and you're

690
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,700
you're collecting these now
during this process and we

691
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:47,600
should probably make sure we
Define the Apocrypha for what it

692
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,600
what it really is.
It's as you were saying, extra

693
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,200
canonical books, write correctly
by various authors.

694
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,200
I believe most of the ones that
were in the Dead Dead Sea in

695
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,300
that were found with the Dead
Sea.

696
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:03,700
Scrolls were produced by the
gnostics if I'm not mistaken.

697
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:05,600
No.
Okay.

698
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,100
Well, they're not that's why I
don't want smarter than me.

699
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,300
They're not they're not exactly
sure who produced them made me

700
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:19,800
think it was the essenes.
Okay, reduced them, but they

701
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,900
did, the they were found near
the community of qumran which is

702
00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:27,500
on the shores of the Dead Sea,
which is very interesting.

703
00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:29,800
Area.
I mean it's I mean it's very

704
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,900
arid.
It's really can't sustain

705
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:36,500
populations there but they had
buildings and they had dining

706
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:40,300
holes and they had plates and
they had all these records

707
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:42,900
there.
And so we don't even know what

708
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:47,800
we do know, is that the, the
cast of priests that were there

709
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:51,900
were critical of the priests in
Jerusalem that the priests in

710
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:57,500
Jerusalem had gone astray.
So we're not exactly sure.

711
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,800
Sure if they lived there or if
they just gathered there to

712
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,700
share their writings that have
conferences.

713
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,000
It's hard to say but no, they
were not the gnostics.

714
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,800
They have nearly every amongst
the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are

715
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,400
copies of most of the Old
Testament, we have the oldest

716
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,400
surviving copy of the book of
Isaiah from the Dead Sea

717
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,700
Scrolls, which is fascinating
in, and of itself, a beautiful

718
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:29,100
large scroll.
They also discovered, it's

719
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:33,200
called the temple, scroll that
the people in qumran had plans

720
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,700
to build their own Temple.
Wow.

721
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:41,400
Basically a blueprint, which is
critical for Jews because they

722
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,100
want to rebuild their Temple and
they didn't.

723
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:44,800
Are we going to do it?
They didn't have blueprints.

724
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,000
Will now, they do thanks to the
Dead Sea Scrolls.

725
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,400
Then they had a Copper Scroll
which is interesting to Mormons.

726
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:57,800
Yeah, ancient writings written
on metal plate so go figure dude

727
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,000
who the couple to come.
Get right?

728
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,500
It a thought.
Anyway.

729
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,200
Anyway, the Dead Sea Scrolls.
They do figure significantly in

730
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,200
my book.
Not because of those things per

731
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,800
se because I'm what I was
looking for were teachings.

732
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,500
And there are teaching straight
out of the Temple.

733
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,400
From the Dead Sea Scrolls.
It's extraordinary and endowed

734
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,500
Latter-Day.
Saint will read those texts and

735
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:26,100
go all my gosh.
How did that get there?

736
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:28,400
Right?
Right.

737
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,800
So so real quick, as you're as
you're accumulating, all these

738
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,200
books.
Do you ever have an idea of, you

739
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,300
know what I'm going to do with
this?

740
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:40,700
I'm going to write and design
for them through it.

741
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:48,400
I like to say it's like macaques
Mormon Doctrine, but Comparative

742
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,400
between what Mormonism believes
and what was taught in the Dead

743
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:53,600
Sea.
Scrolls, is that a fair

744
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,800
assessment?
Yeah, in fact, we were talking

745
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:04,500
earlier, I wanted I'm a great
admirer of Bruce mcconkie and

746
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:07,200
yes, I fully realized that.
Not everything he put in Mormon

747
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:12,300
Doctrine, this factual.
But I have an incredible

748
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:15,800
appreciation for what he did in
the age before.

749
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,900
Computers this man
single-handedly put together,

750
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:25,100
the first Encyclopedia of
Mormonism right by himself

751
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:31,700
encyclopedic and it's
magnificent And he was humble

752
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:34,400
about it.
I mean, there's a certain amount

753
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,200
of confidence that comes with
being so well-versed at so, well

754
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:45,500
read as Bruce, mcconkie was, but
when the first presidency called

755
00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:48,700
him into their office and said
now this is a nice book because

756
00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:51,300
you heard there's some things in
here were concerned about his

757
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:54,100
response to them was I will do
whatever you Brethren, tell me

758
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:58,500
to do.
And so they can't remember who

759
00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:04,000
it was.
I think it was David Dylan McKay

760
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,900
that, they assigned to work with
him.

761
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,100
For his last edition of it in
which he made many Corrections

762
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:17,600
very humbly.
So but but it was a standard

763
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,500
model and it's easy for us to
look down on it today in the age

764
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:25,600
of computers or we can you know,
the touch of a button have

765
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,300
access to the Corpus of the
world's knowledge.

766
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:34,700
I remember what it reminds me of
When the very first digital LDS

767
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:38,500
library was produced, it's
called the LDS collector's

768
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:42,100
edition like 97 1997.
Is the first one I was aware of

769
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:50,900
the box that it came in, it had
Recommendations of various

770
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:53,600
Scholars on the back.
One of them was Hugh Nibley.

771
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:57,200
You nibbly was recommending this
new digital library.

772
00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:02,200
What did he say about it?
He said, one sentence, I wish

773
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,600
I'd have this 40 years ago,
Chris, when he was doing all of

774
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,300
this stuff, 40 years ago, he had
to go to the library.

775
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,500
Physically find the book, copy
it on a note card and go home,

776
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:18,000
right?
So when he was doing, when he

777
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,900
was preparing to write a book,
you'd have a stacks of note

778
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:26,700
cards on his desk that he would
use to Right?

779
00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:28,500
Footnotes, and to no teeth
stuff.

780
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,100
I can't imagine why.
I mean, I grew up in that era to

781
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:37,100
some extent, but the book that I
produce today, I in never would

782
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:40,500
have happened prior to the
digital age, never gonna happen.

783
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,600
So it's your collectiveness.
Are you getting the feeling

784
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,200
that?
Hey, I want to write a book or

785
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,300
you collecting this more like
this is for me.

786
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:52,200
And for my, of course, my intro.
I mean, I couldn't have any

787
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,400
concept of book because I didn't
even know what I was trying to

788
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,200
wrap my arms around. so, my
first question is, how much of

789
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,600
this stuff is out there?
What does it say?

790
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,600
How does it relate to me is a
Latter-Day Saints.

791
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:09,200
So I began, you know, saws
searching out the stuff that

792
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,500
looking, you know, I'd read
nibbly.

793
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:14,400
Then he'd have these extensive
bibliographies so I could go to

794
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,500
the source, the thanks to Amazon
and Modern Age, I could get all

795
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:22,900
this stuff most of it digitally.
Don't PDF documents.

796
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,200
Then of course it took time to
read it and then my friends

797
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,700
would say what is it all say?
That would immediately get

798
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:34,900
tongue-tied, what do you start
right way too much stuff I began

799
00:51:35,700 --> 00:51:40,100
I love the topical guide, the
oldest topical guide in our

800
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,700
printing of the LDS Bible of the
King James Bible, the LDS

801
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:46,800
printing of it.
And I thought, man, if I could

802
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:51,800
organize all of this stuff, like
the topical guy, That would be

803
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,200
helpful.
So I make notes in the margins

804
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,800
of my topical guide or not.
I'm trying to relate scriptures

805
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,700
that aren't already in there.
I thought, hey, I'm going to

806
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:06,100
start doing that.
These extra canonical texts, I'm

807
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:08,300
going to footnote them like the
top guy doesn't know.

808
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:11,600
So I go to my top of God in my
Bible and have it all there.

809
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:14,700
What a brilliant idea until I
realized.

810
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,300
There are going to be more
footnotes to these extra

811
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:21,200
canonical text and there are two
the biblical texts.

812
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,300
There's, as I wrote in my
preface does not approve of the

813
00:52:26,308 --> 00:52:28,500
margins to do that.
Even if I could.

814
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:34,700
And so, in order for me to be
able to answer the question, the

815
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:37,200
other question I had to answer
of all of these hundreds of

816
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,800
extra canonical texts, which of
them are actually useful.

817
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,900
Some of them are are flawed
deeply flawed.

818
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:51,200
Some of them are false, right?
Falsely attributed, Yes, my name

819
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:56,000
is Paul and I and I'm teaching
you to be celibate and, and, of

820
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,000
course, Scholars have looked at
many of these falsified

821
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:05,100
documents and I've deciphered
that their faults because the

822
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,500
these acclaimed author of this
supposed author is referring to

823
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:12,200
things that Paul could not have
known about, right?

824
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,300
Well, something something from
there later time for your goods

825
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:17,800
into the writing and is clear
that this guy's taking upon

826
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,700
himself, the name of Paul try
and steal his Copyright was not

827
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:24,200
a thing back.
So we have to be careful in

828
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,500
these texts to determine which
are useful and which are

829
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:32,600
fallacious.
So the first question is, how am

830
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,300
I going to study these and be
able to adjust it for Fred were

831
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:39,400
to ask me?
What do you think of this book?

832
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:42,700
I have to be able to give them
some sort of an answer.

833
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:47,400
I mean, just be, you have to
have an opinion about it, right?

834
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:54,300
And so, It occurred to me, the
only way to make sense of this.

835
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,200
The idea of actually came to me
that I had to build an

836
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:05,800
alphabetical topical concordance
of these things for every what I

837
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,800
wanted was a complete
concordance for the whole

838
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,500
Corpus, but that's that would
take teams of Scholars.

839
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:16,500
Mmm, I couldn't do that.
What I could do, given enough

840
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:19,500
time I could read through all of
these hundreds of texts, tens of

841
00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:25,300
thousands of Pages and and
identify LDS teachings that

842
00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:29,600
would present themselves in
these texts that could be a mean

843
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,300
because they are teachings are
so distinct from the rest of the

844
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:36,900
Christian world that those
teachings just jump out at you.

845
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,100
It's like, wait a minute that
shouldn't that's Mormonism.

846
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:41,800
I should be there.
What's that doing there, right?

847
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:47,300
So I have no idea to begin with
how many texts there were Nor

848
00:54:47,300 --> 00:54:50,800
did I know how many corollaries
I would find?

849
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:55,400
So I couldn't see the forest for
the trees and even once I began

850
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,100
to discover them, there were so
many there's no way you can keep

851
00:54:58,100 --> 00:54:59,900
track of her track of it all up
here.

852
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,000
So I started to build this
alphabetical database at

853
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,800
topical, concordance of extra
canonical writings dealing with

854
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:16,600
LDS teachings and so that idea
was seared into my mind.

855
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:22,900
At least a decade or two ago.
And it was endlessly frustrating

856
00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:24,600
because my life was already
full.

857
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,700
How in the world am I going to
have time to do this?

858
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:30,300
I believe this is a very
important think that how am I

859
00:55:30,308 --> 00:55:32,500
going to get this done?
Right?

860
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:37,300
And I, and then I lost my job
and then the pandemic, it, I'm

861
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:38,700
sitting there at time on my
hands on the gun.

862
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:43,600
Hey, now's the time before I
embarked upon my next business

863
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:49,400
adventure, Which I'm doing now.
Let me treat this as a

864
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:55,700
sabbatical and do it.
So, I spent months finalizing

865
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:59,600
all of this stuff compiling it
all into a single text.

866
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,700
And I didn't I had I did not
know until it was finished.

867
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:06,100
What?
The end result would look like?

868
00:56:06,700 --> 00:56:10,000
There's no way I could.
And the end result was

869
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,000
extraordinary more than I
anticipated.

870
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:23,400
I counted 179.
Distinct LDS teachings in 66

871
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,800
different ancient texts.
None of which were known to the

872
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,800
world until after the life of
Joseph Smith.

873
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:36,900
The world didn't know anything
about these texts, most of until

874
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:41,000
the 20th century.
Wow.

875
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,600
That's crazy.
That's crazy.

876
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,800
You know, there there's a lot
there in that last part I kind

877
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,400
of want to I want to unpack a
little bit and talk about one is

878
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,900
is what you said that that you
just feel it on your heart and

879
00:56:54,900 --> 00:56:59,300
you have to do that.
I can totally identify with that

880
00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:04,800
when I was laying in my hotel
room at 2:30 in the morning for

881
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,400
work, right?
Because look, it was a time

882
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,500
where and it doesn't happen
frequently.

883
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,400
There was this time where I was
away from home more than I was

884
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,500
home right out and about so
country and I never sleep.

885
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:21,200
Well when I'm away from my
family I just yeah.

886
00:57:21,300 --> 00:57:22,200
Right.
Yeah.

887
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,700
So I am laying, I'm laying in
bed and I'm looking up the

888
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:36,000
ceiling and thinking about what
more can I do for the gospel for

889
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,900
for the Lord, you know, and, you
know, as a fundamentalist

890
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:44,400
Mormon, what can I do?
And the thought of a podcast

891
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,500
came in and I was like, I don't
have time for that.

892
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:51,500
I don't have time for that.
Look at where I'm at.

893
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:56,300
Look at what I am in bed in.
Tyler Texas.

894
00:57:57,700 --> 00:58:00,500
I can't sleep.
This isn't going to work. and

895
00:58:00,500 --> 00:58:06,600
then, As soon as I said that
kind of like an excuse and I

896
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,000
probably am God's most difficult
and petulant child because I was

897
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,500
like I can't do it.
I wish I could I don't have time

898
00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:15,400
sorry you know my my bad don't
don't have it.

899
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:20,800
My circumstances changed to
where I got a ton of free time,

900
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:25,100
I got a promotion and now I can
do this and I had no more

901
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:29,300
excuses.
The next thing is that we looked

902
00:58:29,300 --> 00:58:33,900
at covid as a really horrible
thing and for a lot of folks, it

903
00:58:33,900 --> 00:58:35,400
was, I don't want to minimize
that.

904
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:41,000
However, I do believe that the
Lord in his infinite knowledge

905
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:46,700
blessed, a lot of people during
that time, I'm sure to come out

906
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:49,700
of that.
You came out of it with a book

907
00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:53,900
that is, by all accounts weeping
in its Vision, right?

908
00:58:53,900 --> 00:59:03,400
And and what you've been able to
do here is Amazing. so, with all

909
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,600
this said, you start compiling
this, this stuff right now.

910
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:12,900
Had you already made, like the
like notes about where the God,

911
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:17,000
we're certain restored, gospel
teachings were during sure, I'm

912
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,800
in covid.
So you could go right to it and

913
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,400
you, okay, this is where this
fits and that sort of thing,

914
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,200
that was the only way I could do
it.

915
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,700
I, I mean, I have a fairly good
memory but I don't begin to have

916
00:59:27,700 --> 00:59:30,600
kind of memory to remember where
everything is.

917
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,900
And I do this with all of Books
that I read that are important

918
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:38,200
to me, I'll mark them up leaving
a trail of breadcrumbs so I can

919
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,900
find them again, initially
started doing that with my

920
00:59:40,900 --> 00:59:43,000
scriptures.
As I said, I vowed I would never

921
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:46,700
Be caught unprepared again.
And if you look at my

922
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:51,700
scriptures, you see them.
I was in church, one day Mark,

923
00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:54,600
and at my scriptures.
My daughter is said, what are

924
00:59:54,607 --> 00:59:55,800
you doing?
Are you decorating your

925
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,700
scriptures?
And I'm, yes, I'm decorating my

926
00:59:58,700 --> 01:00:06,100
scriptures, so I can find stuff
because I'm just not this.

927
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:11,400
This book, that I produced was,
first, and foremost, for me, I'm

928
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,200
ashamed of the fact that you
read all these marvelous text,

929
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,500
and then I'm Tongue Tied,
because I can't tell anybody

930
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:18,100
anything about it, because I
can't remember.

931
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:24,000
Now, I have something Now I have
a book I now I can remember it

932
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,500
all because it's alphabetized
and it's indexed and there's no

933
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:32,000
excuse for me, not to be able to
know that this stuff now that

934
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,400
work is done.
I would have paid a fortune for

935
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:40,800
someone else to have done that.
But I, but I'm it was fun.

936
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:44,500
The process was fun.
But so, yeah, so I would read

937
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:47,800
all of these texts and I have a
very specific marking system

938
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,200
that I've developed over the
years.

939
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,500
Very simple to the point, which
makes perfect sense to me.

940
01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:58,600
And as easy is a partial
photographic memory, I don't

941
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,100
have a photograph but I but I do
I'm if I hadn't played football

942
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:05,400
I might have a photographic
memory now you know, but not too

943
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:09,900
many brain cells around.
But I remember how things look

944
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:13,000
on a page.
Okay, I can flip through and I

945
01:01:13,008 --> 01:01:15,300
can see the marking because I
know what book it's in.

946
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:18,800
I so I can makes it easy for me
to find and then I and then I

947
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,900
have the tabbing system alt-tab
the book.

948
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:26,100
So again, easy access.
So you almost like a to write

949
01:01:26,100 --> 01:01:28,600
this book in your research,
right?

950
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,000
Without realizing you were going
to write a book.

951
01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:36,800
You already had set yourself up.
Through right through

952
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,900
fortunately through, right?
Probably the promptings of the

953
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:42,300
spirit, right?
So you could find all this again

954
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:46,900
and and so when covid hits, if
I'm understanding the chronology

955
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:51,900
here, you now have the time.
You're no longer employed with

956
01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:57,800
what used to be Dixie State and
you can now devote yourself to

957
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,700
this work of getting this book
out.

958
01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:02,500
That's exactly right.
And it's like, it's already been

959
01:02:02,500 --> 01:02:05,100
prepared.
All you have to do now and I

960
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:07,300
Want to minimize it, right?
Because writing a book is

961
01:02:07,300 --> 01:02:09,700
different.
You're right, you're right.

962
01:02:09,700 --> 01:02:12,300
That.
Once, once the reading was done,

963
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:18,000
once the doctrines had been the
teachings have been demarcated,

964
01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:22,000
it was simply a matter of
compiling, which was, I mean,

965
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,700
the whole thing was fun.
It was like a treasure hunt and

966
01:02:24,700 --> 01:02:27,500
the reason I was marking these
stuffs being you find a treasure

967
01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:31,300
you don't want to lose it and
the thought of forgetting you

968
01:02:31,300 --> 01:02:34,700
read this ago I don't ever want
to forget this six months later,

969
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:36,400
you forgot.
In it that stuff drives me

970
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:40,500
crazy.
So I go to Great ends to be able

971
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:45,800
to find stuff again and I will
man, could you imagine he could

972
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,500
remember everything you've ever
studied?

973
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:50,700
I know that be amazing.
I know that would be amazing.

974
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:54,000
You know what drives me nuts is
when something leaves in just a

975
01:02:54,008 --> 01:02:57,900
strong impression on you, that,
you can quote, it word for word,

976
01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:01,100
but you can't quote where you
saw it to me.

977
01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:06,100
That drives me nuts.
So well, which is why I was I It

978
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:09,700
teaches us line upon line
precept, upon precept, here a

979
01:03:09,707 --> 01:03:12,500
little there, a little to him
that saith.

980
01:03:13,300 --> 01:03:17,600
See, Tim that receiveth will I
give more from him to say, if I

981
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,400
have enough shall be taken, even
that?

982
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,400
Which he has that part
immortality.

983
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,300
It's not a one-time test of our
devotion.

984
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,900
It is a daily, I mean, because
immortality because we're

985
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:37,100
constantly forgetting things, it
is a Reflection.

986
01:03:38,700 --> 01:03:43,500
Of how badly we want it.
Because if we want to keep it,

987
01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:48,500
it has to be a daily daily
process.

988
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,700
Daily effort.
Put into it for us to be able to

989
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:56,800
keep the the truth of our
existence.

990
01:03:58,100 --> 01:04:02,000
In our minds or as Ezra Taft.
Benson said, the testimony is

991
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,900
not something we receive only
once.

992
01:04:05,300 --> 01:04:08,500
It is to receive you just have
current inspiration to know

993
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:09,600
that.
The work is true.

994
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,300
Yeah, I think that's a great
point because I don't think

995
01:04:15,700 --> 01:04:19,100
you're ever done building a
testimony, right?

996
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:24,200
And I are you're either moving
forward or moving backward, you

997
01:04:24,207 --> 01:04:26,500
never stagnant.
I remember so.

998
01:04:26,900 --> 01:04:29,500
And most people who listen to
the podcast know this.

999
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:31,200
I'm a land surveyor by
profession.

1000
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,400
Right?
So I would spend at this point

1001
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,600
in my career, I'm about to talk
about I would spend about, I

1002
01:04:37,607 --> 01:04:40,200
don't know, two or three days in
the field and then two or Three

1003
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,700
days in the office, right?
And if I don't get out in the

1004
01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:44,700
field a little bit, I start to
go stir crazy.

1005
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:51,300
And yeah, we'll be right and I
tore my ACL once and just laid

1006
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:55,000
me down, right?
I mean it's the surgery.

1007
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,600
It's six months of rehab before
you really start to really

1008
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,600
rehab, right?
And so going out in the field is

1009
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,500
out of the question.
There's only so much office work

1010
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:05,400
to you.
I had a great employer at the

1011
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,800
time who was like, you know
what, just go home and chill out

1012
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,600
your Having me nuts.
Go home.

1013
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:15,300
Your key won't leave me.
Alone about giving you more

1014
01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:17,100
office work.
Just go home.

1015
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,600
I'm going to pay you regardless,
just go home, right?

1016
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,500
Just be around, can't be that.
If the guys are going to need

1017
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:26,000
something, you can at least be a
resource for them, right?

1018
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,100
So I go.
Yeah, but there's a lot of

1019
01:05:28,100 --> 01:05:31,400
downtime and I discovered.
There's only so much Madden.

1020
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,100
I could play on the Xbox before
I went crazy.

1021
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,400
Yeah.
And so and I should have thought

1022
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,400
about it first but I didn't so
but I thought you know So what

1023
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,400
I'm going to do something where
I'm going to go through my

1024
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,500
scripture, so I bought a brand
new set of scriptures and I'm a

1025
01:05:45,508 --> 01:05:49,500
very tactile guy, right?
I like I like to hold a book.

1026
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:53,400
I'm - I'm not big on Kindles or
anything else.

1027
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,100
I'm not saying one is right, or
what is wrong, it's just how

1028
01:05:56,100 --> 01:05:58,500
high.
And so the first thing I did is

1029
01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:02,800
I went through that scripture
and every time God spoke I

1030
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:04,300
highlighted it.
Yeah.

1031
01:06:04,300 --> 01:06:06,600
All the way through any time he
spoke in the first person.

1032
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,600
Well, obviously in the Doctrine
and Covenants, not that's 90%,

1033
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,600
right?
All the way through.

1034
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,700
And I walked out of that
experience with a much deeper

1035
01:06:16,700 --> 01:06:18,900
testimony than what I had went
into it.

1036
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,400
And so I don't think, I don't
think the work of ever building

1037
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,600
that testimonies done.
Oh, no.

1038
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,700
And so I think, I think that
it's in those times, whether you

1039
01:06:27,700 --> 01:06:30,900
take a tear your ACL or in the
middle of a global pandemic, if

1040
01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:34,600
we're not using that time to do
something other than what I

1041
01:06:34,607 --> 01:06:37,200
started out doing, which is
getting really good at Madden

1042
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,900
and everything up, my fantasy
football team.

1043
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,300
Team.
Yeah, yeah, we're selling

1044
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:47,800
ourselves short.
My my kids, I mean, their

1045
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,200
Generation all grow up with
these digital games.

1046
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,400
These digital formats would ask
me dad, dad, why don't you like

1047
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,300
to play these games with us?
And how do you explain to them?

1048
01:06:59,300 --> 01:07:01,800
Because there is something
better.

1049
01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:06,700
Way more exciting.
Yeah and relevant and

1050
01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:12,300
significant to our lives than
that manipulating digital

1051
01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:14,200
figures on the screen.
Right.

1052
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,200
Right on.
And I mean there it's fun it's

1053
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,500
just fun to interact to do some
little things with them.

1054
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,400
But in terms of spending real
time, There isn't anything.

1055
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,600
I mean, when I'm just too tired
to do anything else, I'll sit

1056
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:34,400
down and watch some interesting
science fiction or something

1057
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,600
that just fires your
imagination, that kind of stuff.

1058
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:44,800
But other than that, if I am not
well, we develop addictions

1059
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,000
healthy, addictions, and
unhealthy addictions.

1060
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:54,400
And you, this is a real thing.
You can develop mental, stimuli

1061
01:07:54,800 --> 01:08:00,100
that you get used to it.
I'm not because of We're

1062
01:08:00,100 --> 01:08:03,400
spoiled.
Today we have access to the

1063
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,900
entirety of knowledge of
humanity.

1064
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:10,300
I can get on my computer and see
what James Webb is looking at

1065
01:08:10,300 --> 01:08:13,600
today, kind of a thing.
If I'm not learning, something,

1066
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:17,500
new and exciting.
Every single day, I start to

1067
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:21,800
feel depressed, right?
That's how addicted I become to

1068
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:27,200
having my brain fed at this
enormous rate every single day,

1069
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,600
every day.
Alright, let's talk a little bit

1070
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:36,200
about the book coming together
and I just got to ask because I

1071
01:08:36,207 --> 01:08:39,000
would dare to say that they're
probably as we were there

1072
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,399
moments at which you're putting
this book together during the

1073
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:48,700
pandemic that you see the Lord
really at work, Small Miracles,

1074
01:08:48,700 --> 01:08:59,000
anything like that.
Well, As we talked about before.

1075
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:07,600
I felt like this idea that was
put into my mind to produce this

1076
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,000
in the first place.
It was divine.

1077
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,600
And I've had other book ideas
that I was going to write

1078
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,899
something about Joseph Smith,
the world's luckiest guesser

1079
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,600
kind of a book next thing, you
know.

1080
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,800
Great LDS author, Michael.
Ash reduces evidences of the

1081
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,000
Prophet Joseph Smith, which is
basically the same thing.

1082
01:09:30,100 --> 01:09:34,100
And so I kind of half expected
someone to write this book

1083
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:35,800
before.
I would be able to get to it.

1084
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,899
And Danny Peterson organization.
The Interpreter has danced

1085
01:09:41,899 --> 01:09:45,899
around a little bit and taking
small bikes of it, you know,

1086
01:09:45,899 --> 01:09:50,800
dealing with the Enoch texts.
Jeffrey Bradshaw's, you know,

1087
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:55,800
he's great author and has done a
lot of work in that regard, but

1088
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:00,300
I didn't see anyone who was
positioned to do this work and

1089
01:10:00,300 --> 01:10:05,300
the more that comes into Focus,
the more pressure I felt to not

1090
01:10:05,300 --> 01:10:08,300
blow it.
I've been given this idea.

1091
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,900
I've been given the means and
the resources to see it through.

1092
01:10:12,500 --> 01:10:15,800
Now, it's on me.
I would lay in my bed at night.

1093
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,400
Freddie, ha ha.
How am I going to do this?

1094
01:10:19,700 --> 01:10:22,300
You know, where am I going to
find the time and wait for

1095
01:10:22,300 --> 01:10:24,200
everybody else?
To go to bed and stay up as late

1096
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:25,900
as I could working on it or
reading.

1097
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:34,100
And my wife who is a saint In
every sense of the word.

1098
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:42,200
believed in this, And ran
interference for the months that

1099
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,700
it took for me to get it done
and didn't worry about where the

1100
01:10:46,700 --> 01:10:48,900
money was coming from, you know,
that sort of thing.

1101
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,600
That she had to be married to
someone who has enough faith in

1102
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:58,000
you and whether she understood
it completely or not, but to

1103
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:02,600
give you permission and to give
you assistance to make it happen

1104
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:07,400
is an invaluable gift.
So that's once I'll tell you, I

1105
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:14,300
hear you, we could spend a whole
other podcast on my marriage and

1106
01:11:14,300 --> 01:11:18,900
this woman that I married to, I
can so identify with that he's

1107
01:11:18,900 --> 01:11:20,800
seven.
God sent her to me.

1108
01:11:21,100 --> 01:11:22,100
Yep.
Yep.

1109
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:28,400
When I came home after my last
trip out of town that I would

1110
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,200
have to take for a long, long
time, I showed up, and I was

1111
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,800
unpacking my suitcase and it was
a new laptop, some microphones,

1112
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,600
some headphones, and the
receipts for some software I

1113
01:11:40,608 --> 01:11:43,500
bought.
And my wife's like, what's that?

1114
01:11:43,500 --> 01:11:47,500
Now it's like I'm going to start
a podcast and I'm going to

1115
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:49,600
profess to the world and started
podcasting.

1116
01:11:49,700 --> 01:11:51,600
Hi.
I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you

1117
01:11:51,608 --> 01:11:54,400
know, I'm going to profess to
the world that I'm a Mormon

1118
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,500
fundamentalist and we're going
to talk about some really cool

1119
01:11:56,500 --> 01:12:00,400
things in my wife.
I mean, she's been nothing but

1120
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,200
supportive and what was, what
was hilarious.

1121
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,800
And this is a woman who's had to
endure me for going to be 27

1122
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:08,400
years.
In November, we got married

1123
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,500
activations.
We got married young, moved

1124
01:12:12,500 --> 01:12:16,500
across the country once halfway
across the country twice.

1125
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,100
She just looked at and she went,
you've had Worse ideas and then

1126
01:12:21,100 --> 01:12:23,500
just, you know, really
supportive.

1127
01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:27,900
Really supported have been has
been so supportive of this as as

1128
01:12:27,900 --> 01:12:31,500
I brought people into the house
because I have my, where I

1129
01:12:31,508 --> 01:12:35,000
record is upstairs in this
glued, secluded part of the

1130
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,300
house, nothing but support so I
can I can so identify with your

1131
01:12:39,300 --> 01:12:47,400
statement there that we as men
you know, we get we get these

1132
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,400
things to do, but we couldn't do
them without Her wife.

1133
01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:55,100
Yeah.
Well so yeah I it wouldn't have

1134
01:12:55,100 --> 01:13:00,600
happened without my wife and her
support and her belief in this

1135
01:13:01,300 --> 01:13:04,400
and talking it over with me.
Then of course the necessary

1136
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:10,600
software that made its came into
my hands the time.

1137
01:13:12,100 --> 01:13:16,200
The text that you find
serendipitously online.

1138
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,000
You're looking for one thing,
you know, hey I need that one

1139
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,800
too kind of a thing and then the
means to publish it.

1140
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:28,400
Once it was done, it was like oh
my gosh, it's done, it's 400

1141
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:32,100
Pages now, what do I do?
The first thing I did, I started

1142
01:13:32,100 --> 01:13:35,800
giving it away, right?
I went on Facebook and I said, I

1143
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,500
just finished this project if
you want one message me and I'll

1144
01:13:39,500 --> 01:13:42,300
attach the PDF.
I don't know how many Hundreds

1145
01:13:42,700 --> 01:13:44,900
copies.
I gave away full of typos, by

1146
01:13:44,900 --> 01:13:47,500
the way, because I had no other
proof read it for me.

1147
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:52,400
I think I've since corrected
120, some typos in the book, but

1148
01:13:53,300 --> 01:13:55,200
found another one, just the
other day, is going to drive me

1149
01:13:55,200 --> 01:14:00,600
crazy, in any case, And I began
to approach various Publishers.

1150
01:14:01,700 --> 01:14:05,400
Also, at that time,
serendipitously, my cash, and

1151
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:09,600
Brant Gardner, very fine,
Scholars LDS, Scholars.

1152
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:15,500
Published authors came to me
with some very, very timely and

1153
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:17,400
helpful advice.
They were so kind.

1154
01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:22,100
And so for I've never met either
of them personally, but they

1155
01:14:22,100 --> 01:14:24,900
would take their time out of
their busy schedules.

1156
01:14:25,300 --> 01:14:28,800
To be interested in this work.
Number one, at the Complimentary

1157
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,600
of it.
And then number two to have

1158
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:40,800
constructive input meant a lot
and just I mean you read their

1159
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,600
works and man, I hope this guy's
is nice.

1160
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:50,400
It's his book is nice, you know,
they are they are so good, so

1161
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,900
they gave me some very good
advice, necessary changes that

1162
01:14:53,900 --> 01:14:57,500
we may not massive changes just
in terms of vocabulary and stuff

1163
01:14:57,500 --> 01:15:00,300
like that.
Very very helpful and then of

1164
01:15:00,308 --> 01:15:03,800
course and I thought you know
what, I let's see if anybody's

1165
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,200
interested so I put it out
there.

1166
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:11,300
I sent it to I think four
different Publishers if you

1167
01:15:11,300 --> 01:15:13,000
don't mind.
Could you tell us who you send

1168
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,000
it to?
Yes, I before I do that.

1169
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,800
I I realized this book was not
Harry Potter.

1170
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:24,800
And I wasn't writing this book
to be famous or popular to make

1171
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,300
a lot of money.
I don't think I'm making

1172
01:15:27,300 --> 01:15:31,100
anybody.
I'm advertising it and it's

1173
01:15:31,100 --> 01:15:35,900
selling but the advertising
still and I think I give more

1174
01:15:35,900 --> 01:15:38,700
weight than I sell.
Again, that's not why I put this

1175
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:42,200
book together.
It would be gratifying for to

1176
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:49,500
get in front of more people but
So I realized it would not be a

1177
01:15:49,500 --> 01:15:53,100
great self the Publishers who
have to make money, right?

1178
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,700
How do you, how do you Market a
concordance?

1179
01:15:56,100 --> 01:15:58,200
Both people that you don't even
know what a concordance is

1180
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,600
anymore because we don't need
them because we have digital

1181
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,000
databases but we don't have a
digital database but the sum

1182
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,700
total of extra canonical
writings which is like this

1183
01:16:07,100 --> 01:16:09,900
concordance is necessary.
So I realized that it was going

1184
01:16:09,900 --> 01:16:11,800
to be a hard sell on the other
hand.

1185
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,000
I also realized it is utter
uniqueness.

1186
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,200
There is nothing else.
Like that I have seen, I

1187
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:24,500
submitted it to Signature books,
which publishes my cash read

1188
01:16:24,500 --> 01:16:27,700
coffered books, which publishes
Brett Gardner, right?

1189
01:16:28,700 --> 01:16:32,600
I didn't submit to Desert book.
I just didn't think I had a shot

1190
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:37,500
with that, and I submitted it to
The Interpreter.

1191
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:43,900
Who, although not necessarily A
Publishing House, have been

1192
01:16:43,900 --> 01:16:49,400
known to publish books along, so
I was I was targeting more

1193
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:55,100
scholarly publishers. the
authors that I mentioned before,

1194
01:16:55,800 --> 01:17:04,200
we're not very encouraging in
regard to their Publishers, the

1195
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:05,600
Publishers.
Again, if you look at what

1196
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,000
they're publishing.
They're publishing smaller

1197
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,500
works.
That have a broad appeal that

1198
01:17:11,500 --> 01:17:14,300
will sell.
Right, even though in the past,

1199
01:17:14,300 --> 01:17:17,500
they've done scholarly stuff are
not their kind of heading away

1200
01:17:17,500 --> 01:17:21,300
from that because of the
almighty dollar, I understand

1201
01:17:21,300 --> 01:17:28,600
that any case, every single one
of them were We're highly

1202
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,200
complimentary of the book.
This is a great work.

1203
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,300
But in two of the cases
signature and greater Comfort,

1204
01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:39,200
they said it's too big.
We don't publish text this large

1205
01:17:39,700 --> 01:17:42,500
and we don't, you know, and then
they ask me, how do you propose

1206
01:17:42,500 --> 01:17:44,900
to Market it?
And I'm like, Oh, I thought that

1207
01:17:44,900 --> 01:17:47,500
was, that's why I'm coming to
you, you know, right.

1208
01:17:47,700 --> 01:17:52,700
I realized that for them to
invest, you know, publishing

1209
01:17:52,700 --> 01:17:56,500
costs money, the interpreters
response.

1210
01:17:56,700 --> 01:18:01,300
I was a little disappointed with
they were complimentary of the

1211
01:18:01,300 --> 01:18:04,600
concept.
But they, they ran it up the

1212
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:06,000
chain to their expert in this
area.

1213
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,900
The expert said that some of the
sources I used were not reliable

1214
01:18:09,900 --> 01:18:13,900
sources.
And I wanted to write back and

1215
01:18:13,900 --> 01:18:16,700
say, what are you talking about?
Yuri, if you look in the

1216
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:21,800
extra-canonical sources, the
annotated bibliography, you can

1217
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:26,100
see that are each and every one
of these. 66 text that I have

1218
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:30,400
cited come from reputable,
scholarly Publications.

1219
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:33,900
So I'd like to have that
conversation with them and say,

1220
01:18:33,900 --> 01:18:36,700
what were you thinking?
You just shooting from the hip

1221
01:18:36,700 --> 01:18:40,100
because you read things, you saw
text that you were unfamiliar

1222
01:18:40,100 --> 01:18:43,700
with or do you really have
issues with some of these texts?

1223
01:18:44,700 --> 01:18:47,800
I mean the criteria for the text
that I did use.

1224
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:52,100
They had to be ancient, they had
to be as old as the New

1225
01:18:52,100 --> 01:18:54,200
Testament itself or their
clothes.

1226
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:58,300
It had to be at least within the
first few centuries aiding,

1227
01:18:58,900 --> 01:19:00,800
right?
And many of them predate, the

1228
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:05,500
new I mean so they had to be
ancient, it had to be authentic,

1229
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,700
it couldn't be like the your
auntie a book that some guy

1230
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,700
received hiking trip up in the
you inches or something, it

1231
01:19:12,708 --> 01:19:16,000
couldn't be that.
So I didn't include the very

1232
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,900
popular book of jasher.
I did not include that.

1233
01:19:18,900 --> 01:19:22,500
Book of jasher is far too late.
It's well into the second

1234
01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:28,500
Millennium ad and it's highly
derivative clearly borrowing

1235
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,600
from earlier authentic text.
I didn't want to have Anything

1236
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,300
to do with that stuff.
It was very important for me.

1237
01:19:34,300 --> 01:19:38,200
That this book could be.
Two things.

1238
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,900
It could be accessible to the
average reader if they wanted to

1239
01:19:41,900 --> 01:19:46,900
dig a little bit, but it could
also be respected as a scholarly

1240
01:19:46,900 --> 01:19:52,100
reference text and for it to be
respected as a reference text.

1241
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:54,300
It couldn't have any of my own
personal bias in it.

1242
01:19:54,900 --> 01:19:57,400
So as you read it you won't see
my opinion on anything.

1243
01:19:58,700 --> 01:20:01,100
I think this or I think that I
don't do that.

1244
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:07,300
I simply post as authoritatively
as I can the LDS source of an

1245
01:20:07,300 --> 01:20:10,900
LDS teaching.
And then I sight word for word

1246
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:15,400
from the extra canonical texts.
And I want that to be very clear

1247
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:25,100
because I don't want it to turn
like any Source of scholarly

1248
01:20:25,100 --> 01:20:30,000
source.
It can be used in an infinite

1249
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,300
number of ways and it has an
infinite number of things to

1250
01:20:33,300 --> 01:20:35,600
teach us our to say to us
because I didn't write that

1251
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,400
stuff.
I just compiled it right?

1252
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:42,200
And I didn't want my commentary
to ruin that it could be so many

1253
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,400
different can mean many
different things for many for

1254
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,100
people.
I'm still working on that.

1255
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:50,100
I mean so I put it together so I
can see what it has to say as a

1256
01:20:50,108 --> 01:20:55,200
whole and what it has to say
specific to given subjects and

1257
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:59,600
topics which is Mind-blowing
still seems odd that you would

1258
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:00,800
say.
I'm studying my book, but I

1259
01:21:00,808 --> 01:21:03,600
understand a little bit about
Joseph Smith, translation of the

1260
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:05,300
Book of Mormon doesn't mean you
understood it.

1261
01:21:05,300 --> 01:21:09,200
All right?
Right away and he studied he

1262
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,600
studied his own translation,
right?

1263
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,700
Is also evidence of its
authenticity, why would you

1264
01:21:13,708 --> 01:21:16,700
study something that he that he
made up, you know?

1265
01:21:16,700 --> 01:21:20,400
Right, right.
But let me ask you this, I got

1266
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:25,000
two questions for you here off
of off of that little piece of

1267
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:29,600
conversation, we had What was it
like to after?

1268
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:35,000
You've spent sounds like well
over 20 years compiling, all

1269
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:41,400
this information to have some 40
years, 40 years to have someone

1270
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,500
tell you that.
Hey, your sources aren't up to

1271
01:21:44,500 --> 01:21:50,000
Snuff was that kind of
infuriating a little bit over a

1272
01:21:50,100 --> 01:21:54,300
younger and more prideful.
It might have but I've been

1273
01:21:54,300 --> 01:21:57,500
around this scholarly bush.
A few times.

1274
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:02,600
I had a published dissertation
that I presented at an

1275
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,500
International Conference in
Philadelphia, a couple of

1276
01:22:05,500 --> 01:22:09,700
decades ago which was really
quite significant and field of

1277
01:22:09,700 --> 01:22:14,700
singing and It was a
physiological study and the

1278
01:22:14,700 --> 01:22:20,300
expiratory mechanism musculature
and the politics of it, stunned

1279
01:22:20,300 --> 01:22:22,000
me.
I mean I was naive I thought in

1280
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,100
the field of science and either
it you can prove it or you can't

1281
01:22:25,100 --> 01:22:29,400
nobody can argue with you.
But the chairperson of that

1282
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,000
committee begin to argue with
me.

1283
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,200
Because I had cut in front of
her prot��g�� who was studying the

1284
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:40,400
same thing and it was like are
you kidding me?

1285
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:44,300
And I began to, I didn't know
she was the chair.

1286
01:22:44,300 --> 01:22:47,400
She was the internet.
She was the national chair of

1287
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:52,200
that but I don't want to name
names but I'm people apologizing

1288
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:54,900
to me the next day that she
would do that to me, you know,

1289
01:22:54,900 --> 01:22:56,200
that's funny.
You should bring that up.

1290
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,100
I have a I have a thick skin.
I have six years.

1291
01:23:00,100 --> 01:23:02,400
They said that I wasn't hardly
surprised.

1292
01:23:04,100 --> 01:23:06,400
That's why I'd like to have an
honest conversation with them

1293
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:11,100
and say which ones because I
didn't bother to do that which

1294
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:15,000
is a red flag, right?
Well really like which ones are

1295
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,100
you prefer?
Which of this?

1296
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:19,100
You read through all 66 and
you're going to tell me right?

1297
01:23:19,300 --> 01:23:22,500
Anyway it's funny you should
bring that up because I have a

1298
01:23:22,500 --> 01:23:27,700
good friend and I'm not going to
name names because he's At a

1299
01:23:27,700 --> 01:23:31,000
very prestigious University on
the West Coast.

1300
01:23:32,300 --> 01:23:38,600
And he he's starting to find now
that the assumptions we've had

1301
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,100
in archaeology for the last 100
years.

1302
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:45,500
Are wrong.
I think on a lot of things

1303
01:23:45,900 --> 01:23:50,300
that's never happened before and
I and he, well in welcome to the

1304
01:23:50,300 --> 01:23:52,700
world of science.
Yeah, he's he's the first to

1305
01:23:52,700 --> 01:23:55,100
admit that, you know.
Hey, Archaeology is really

1306
01:23:55,100 --> 01:23:58,300
recent, right?
We've, it's only been just a Top

1307
01:23:58,300 --> 01:23:59,300
Gear.
Yeah.

1308
01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:02,500
That, that we've been doing it
and we're still using a lot of

1309
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:07,600
the same models that that we
used that assumptions, right?

1310
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:10,000
I mean right down to the
peopling of America, right?

1311
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:11,800
Like the whole club exactly the
hole.

1312
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,600
Clovis.
First doctor.

1313
01:24:15,500 --> 01:24:21,000
So he he was telling me in a
phone conversation once judge

1314
01:24:21,100 --> 01:24:23,800
and he's not LDS right?
And he doesn't have the same

1315
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:27,500
kind of dog in a fight like
maybe right I would talking

1316
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:32,000
about the Western Hemisphere but
he was like it's not about the

1317
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,100
data, right?
The data is secondary to the

1318
01:24:35,100 --> 01:24:39,600
politics and it is happening.
And the problem is that they

1319
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:43,600
have the ability to turn.
People into pariahs.

1320
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,800
The other thing is that a lot of
these Scholars, now are

1321
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:53,800
realizing that, because of just
the prevalence of the amount of

1322
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,400
knowledge that's available to
the average person.

1323
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:03,400
Greatly greatly diminishes, the
idea of the of the date,

1324
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:06,900
Gatekeepers or the middle men.
If you're right though, as the

1325
01:25:06,900 --> 01:25:10,800
experts who know experts, right?
So as soon as you set out to do

1326
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:15,000
something like this, you know,
his opinion was, it's not

1327
01:25:15,100 --> 01:25:21,400
Gathering the data that stuff,
its Getting people to, at least

1328
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:26,000
be open enough to consider the
possibilities and, and the

1329
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:30,000
politics that go along with it.
And if you're in those circles

1330
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,400
heavily, if that's your
full-time career, good luck on

1331
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:38,100
being different because they'll
just defund you as far as grants

1332
01:25:38,100 --> 01:25:39,600
and scholarships.
Yeah.

1333
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,400
My next question is is your as
you're putting all this

1334
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,100
together?
Or do you have something you

1335
01:25:44,100 --> 01:25:46,400
were going to say?
Well as finishing, the

1336
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:50,700
publishing story, both brand.
Gardner in my cache suggested

1337
01:25:50,700 --> 01:25:56,000
that I self-publish.
Mike says that he's had that he

1338
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:01,000
has enjoyed more self-publishing
than being than having a

1339
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,600
publisher because if you sign
with the publisher their

1340
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,200
limitations.
So you're talking about these

1341
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,600
serendipitous things that
occurred in order to make this

1342
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,200
happen.
I got online with and, you know,

1343
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,400
I did some research on
self-publishing and the most

1344
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,200
highly recommended was the
Amazon the Kindle system.

1345
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:22,100
I had that thing published in a
night.

1346
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:29,400
One night you get on there and
it's it's it is beautiful and

1347
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,600
they don't limit you.
You can Market it, sell it, buy

1348
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:32,500
it.
You can do whatever you want

1349
01:26:32,500 --> 01:26:37,600
with it and they will print on
demand doesn't cost you anything

1350
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:40,900
initially at all, isn't it?
Never cost you anything you say?

1351
01:26:41,100 --> 01:26:44,200
Money.
You upload the PDF, you design

1352
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,100
the cover, you design, the
government Tyrael, the assign

1353
01:26:47,100 --> 01:26:50,900
it, an ISDN number, till you,
what the cost of it's going to

1354
01:26:50,900 --> 01:26:53,000
be, you determine the mark-up
you want.

1355
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:57,800
You determine the final price.
And the next thing, you know,

1356
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:01,700
it's available on Amazon for the
whole world to see in Dubai, and

1357
01:27:01,700 --> 01:27:05,000
now they have available and the,
the printing quality is really

1358
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,200
quite nice.
Initially, it was you could get

1359
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:12,200
it in Amazon Kindle, the only
thing I don't like about the

1360
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,000
Kindle formatting.
Is that it messes up the

1361
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,400
pagination.
Okay, so the contents and the,

1362
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,800
so the pdf version I sent you.
That's the one you want.

1363
01:27:21,100 --> 01:27:24,000
Gotcha, God, if you can't, the
Kindle version, it's nice.

1364
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,900
And I've sold a number.
A lot of those, but the Nation

1365
01:27:26,900 --> 01:27:29,900
is messed up, but for there are
people who love to rekindle.

1366
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,300
That's the only way that have
it, that it was initially

1367
01:27:33,300 --> 01:27:34,600
available on Kindle and it's
soft.

1368
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,400
Cover high quality.
Now, you can get it in

1369
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,000
hardcover, that was just made
available just as last year.

1370
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:44,100
Wow.
So I'm super pleased with that,

1371
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:50,200
and I probably give away two
cases of books a month in

1372
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:51,800
addition to what's being sold on
Amazon.

1373
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:56,200
But if I didn't advertise, I
wouldn't sell anything right?

1374
01:27:56,500 --> 01:27:59,200
So, I run an advertising
campaign on Facebook.

1375
01:28:00,100 --> 01:28:05,000
Which is a lot of fun and it's
reasonably priced and I've

1376
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:10,600
experimented with advertising it
to thousands a day and yes it

1377
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,700
does sell more but it doesn't.
It doesn't pay back.

1378
01:28:13,700 --> 01:28:15,100
You did.
It doesn't pay for guide.

1379
01:28:15,700 --> 01:28:18,100
Kind of finding that sweet spot.
But what's funny about that in

1380
01:28:18,100 --> 01:28:21,000
the advertising process you have
to create a Facebook page for

1381
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:24,100
the book.
Which people can comment on.

1382
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,600
And I spend hours every single
day.

1383
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:33,200
Fielding comments for better for
worse.

1384
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,800
Most of them are straight up at
a Mormon, right?

1385
01:28:35,900 --> 01:28:37,300
We hate you.
Hate your book, get up.

1386
01:28:37,300 --> 01:28:41,100
I feed Satan kind of stuff which
is, I think kind of funny.

1387
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,500
Because it tells me that they
understand the significance of

1388
01:28:45,508 --> 01:28:46,900
the book.
Right?

1389
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:51,100
So I take that as a compliment
and whenever possible I will try

1390
01:28:51,100 --> 01:28:53,400
it.
If they'll give me even one,

1391
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:58,300
just just one little opening
that I can get in there and

1392
01:28:58,300 --> 01:29:02,100
start having a real conversation
with them about why they feel

1393
01:29:02,100 --> 01:29:06,700
this way, or did they know about
this or have they actually read?

1394
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:13,100
Probably.
Five out of a hundred of

1395
01:29:13,100 --> 01:29:16,200
actually read the book before
they comment, right?

1396
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:19,900
Yeah, yeah.
I know ends up being it ends up

1397
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:23,600
being a defense of the faith.
I didn't necessarily want that.

1398
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,000
I wanted to be about the book,
but her some point you're like,

1399
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:27,100
oh why not?
Here we go.

1400
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,100
Happy to do that.
Have been love that but it's a

1401
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:31,900
lot of fun.
You can get it to Mormon

1402
01:29:31,900 --> 01:29:35,300
Doctrine, the Apocrypha on
Facebook, you can jump in all

1403
01:29:35,300 --> 01:29:38,400
you want.
Yep, I when I first started the

1404
01:29:38,407 --> 01:29:41,500
podcast I felt like I was it was
needed.

1405
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:46,300
Army to defend defend it.
And now I've come to realize,

1406
01:29:46,300 --> 01:29:49,600
especially on YouTube, right?
I'll load some of these up on

1407
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:55,200
YouTube and I'm a fan of post
and ghost, I mean, get it, get

1408
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,100
it, post it, and then get out of
there.

1409
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,400
You're not changing.
I shouldn't say never, but the

1410
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:06,100
chances of change in somebody's
mind on Facebook, or comments

1411
01:30:06,100 --> 01:30:10,100
and YouTube are just
astronomically low, right?

1412
01:30:10,100 --> 01:30:11,500
I mean it's not a real
conversation.

1413
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,000
Ation.
It's just however, however and I

1414
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:19,500
do this a lot.
Anyway, I won't go into

1415
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:27,200
specifics but there have been a
number of circumstances where At

1416
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,400
the very least, you blunt.
Sure Force.

1417
01:30:31,500 --> 01:30:34,200
But here's the most important
aspect of it.

1418
01:30:34,300 --> 01:30:36,800
My primary concern, I mean,
those people who get on there

1419
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:40,900
with flamethrowers and are just
looking to damage a person's

1420
01:30:40,900 --> 01:30:45,100
faith.
I like you, I have my doubts

1421
01:30:45,100 --> 01:30:48,100
about making a dent, dirt,
finding an opening in the

1422
01:30:48,100 --> 01:30:50,900
thinking at all.
What, I'm more concerned with

1423
01:30:51,300 --> 01:30:54,100
our the Innocents, who stumble
across that on Facebook and are

1424
01:30:54,100 --> 01:30:57,900
influenced by that.
So my, my fundamental goal in

1425
01:30:57,900 --> 01:31:01,200
all of this is simply to provide
the alternate View.

1426
01:31:02,100 --> 01:31:05,300
So the people have a choice,
they can make informed choices.

1427
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:13,800
If all they see is the lopsided
anti-mormon Viewpoint and that's

1428
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,900
all they know what chance.
Do they have making a rational

1429
01:31:17,900 --> 01:31:19,500
decision?
An informed decision.

1430
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:24,900
So every opportunity I have
given time I will happily post

1431
01:31:24,900 --> 01:31:26,700
the you know, the opposing
Viewpoint.

1432
01:31:27,100 --> 01:31:28,700
Sure.
People can see their multiple

1433
01:31:28,700 --> 01:31:32,700
sides to any argument as any
true scholar would Want right,

1434
01:31:32,800 --> 01:31:33,400
right?
Yeah.

1435
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:36,100
If you really are interested in
the truth and you're making

1436
01:31:36,100 --> 01:31:39,700
decisions without exploring all
sides of the argument, you are

1437
01:31:39,700 --> 01:31:42,300
making a decision in ignorance.
Yep.

1438
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,700
And that'll and you'll pay for
that.

1439
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:50,100
Absolutely.
Um, how did you determine what

1440
01:31:50,100 --> 01:31:52,500
was worthy of going into the
book?

1441
01:31:52,500 --> 01:31:55,700
And what wasn't at what point
and not.

1442
01:31:55,800 --> 01:32:00,700
And that question has two, two
branches.

1443
01:32:00,700 --> 01:32:05,500
If you One is doctrinally
significant, right then?

1444
01:32:06,900 --> 01:32:10,700
Also historically, reliable,
does that make sense?

1445
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,800
Exactly.
How did you come up with those

1446
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:17,900
two criteria on?
Hey, this this should be there,

1447
01:32:17,900 --> 01:32:21,800
this shouldn't well from a
doctrinal point of view and from

1448
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:27,900
a authen authentic history point
of view, very good, that's a

1449
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:32,900
best the really great question.
The easiest part of that answer

1450
01:32:32,900 --> 01:32:36,500
is to determine which were
ancient at authentic I started

1451
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:38,900
Say if they weren't ancient if
they weren't within the first

1452
01:32:38,900 --> 01:32:41,900
few centuries ad, I wasn't
interested in them.

1453
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:47,200
So all 66 date, almost as old as
the New Testament itself or

1454
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:49,700
older that carries a lot of
weight.

1455
01:32:50,300 --> 01:32:56,100
The whether or not they're
authentic has been determined.

1456
01:32:56,100 --> 01:33:01,400
I mean when you buy most of
these texts come from highly

1457
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:05,600
reputable, scholarly text Old
Testament, pseudepigrapha

1458
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,900
volumes one.
Two and now volume 3, New

1459
01:33:08,900 --> 01:33:13,300
Testament, Apocrypha now.
And four or five volumes mean.

1460
01:33:13,300 --> 01:33:16,200
These are published by experts
in the field and who spend

1461
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:20,300
multiple Pages before the text
telling, you how they dated this

1462
01:33:20,300 --> 01:33:24,700
and what they think about it.
So they have very very solid

1463
01:33:24,700 --> 01:33:27,700
reasoning behind whether they
would choose to even publish it

1464
01:33:28,300 --> 01:33:29,900
or call it authentic in the
first place.

1465
01:33:29,900 --> 01:33:35,100
So it's not just me deciding.
This is based on The preeminent

1466
01:33:35,100 --> 01:33:39,300
scholars in that particular
field regarding the authenticity

1467
01:33:39,300 --> 01:33:46,200
of the text.
Also they know The extant copies

1468
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:48,300
of those texts.
Tell you a lot about it for one

1469
01:33:48,300 --> 01:33:50,200
more.
My favorite arguably?

1470
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:54,900
My favorite extra-canonical work
is the pissed is Sophia.

1471
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,700
One time known as the Askew
manuscript because it was

1472
01:33:59,700 --> 01:34:01,800
discovered, we don't know where
it came from.

1473
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:04,900
Oddly enough.
We know what it is because we

1474
01:34:04,900 --> 01:34:09,100
have the original manuscript
written on papyrus in Coptic

1475
01:34:10,100 --> 01:34:13,700
first person.
It turned up at the top of the

1476
01:34:13,700 --> 01:34:17,000
London Bookseller Market.
Some grave robber, found it in

1477
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,700
the Middle East.
Somewhere showed up in London in

1478
01:34:19,700 --> 01:34:24,400
the late 1700s bought by a
doctor doctor asked you, and

1479
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,200
they call it the asking
manuscript for years and wasn't

1480
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:29,700
translated into English until
around 1920.

1481
01:34:31,700 --> 01:34:35,000
It's 300.
And some pages of Jesus.

1482
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,900
Christ's teaching his disciples
after he was resurrected.

1483
01:34:39,900 --> 01:34:42,800
He gave him a and he had a
question and answer session with

1484
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:46,500
them said, because my work is
completed, ask me whatever you

1485
01:34:46,500 --> 01:34:48,400
want and I will answer you
openly.

1486
01:34:50,100 --> 01:34:53,600
So, you know, you know, to tell
us about the kingdom of God and

1487
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:56,000
he tells them about the kingdom
of God, in astronomical terms,

1488
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,300
they can understand when does
the spirit end of the body Mary

1489
01:34:59,300 --> 01:35:03,900
asks, he says 70 days, I mean
stuff like that.

1490
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,100
And you think this is crazy but
the fact is we know that it's

1491
01:35:08,100 --> 01:35:11,100
ancient it dates to the 1st 2nd
3rd century.

1492
01:35:12,100 --> 01:35:15,100
On original Papyrus.
I mean, that's the kind of stuff

1493
01:35:15,100 --> 01:35:16,900
that blows my mind.
So, this game.

1494
01:35:17,100 --> 01:35:19,800
Okay, hold on.
Because now I'm fascinated.

1495
01:35:19,900 --> 01:35:21,600
I got to take a side tangent
here.

1496
01:35:22,100 --> 01:35:26,200
There are millions.
Yeah, 70 days from the moment of

1497
01:35:26,500 --> 01:35:29,600
conception, you don't know if
you know here's here's what's

1498
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:32,100
crazy about a two
thousand-year-old document.

1499
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:36,400
He says 70 days when the spirit
enters the body he says that and

1500
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:39,900
we now know in terms of
gestation what that is.

1501
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:46,400
That's the tenth week and what
we know in the stages of

1502
01:35:46,407 --> 01:35:51,900
gestation the 10th week is when
the body is first fully formed,

1503
01:35:52,300 --> 01:35:56,900
everything is there?
Hmm coincidence.

1504
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:00,000
Hmm.
Well, the really interesting

1505
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:04,400
thing for me, one of the it's
Pista Sophia, it's Jesus starts

1506
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:08,400
telling his disciples about the
degrees of glory and the laws

1507
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,600
governing the degrees of Glory.
And then he starts telling them

1508
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:16,900
about the ordinances necessary
to enter into those kingdoms and

1509
01:36:16,900 --> 01:36:19,400
to pass through the veils that
are guarded.

1510
01:36:20,100 --> 01:36:24,900
You have to know certain words
and certain signs and tokens to

1511
01:36:24,900 --> 01:36:28,200
pass through these veils in
order to reach the kingdom of

1512
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:30,700
God.
And he tells them what they are.

1513
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:36,100
And then after all that he says,
and this is Jesus talking to his

1514
01:36:36,100 --> 01:36:40,900
disciples if you know of a
righteous disciple.

1515
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,800
Who died before receiving these
ordinances, you can perform

1516
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,300
them.
He can perform those ordinances

1517
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,400
in their behalf.
Wow many.

1518
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:55,200
And then he teaches them the
true order of prayer teaches in

1519
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,600
the prayer circle the apostles
and their wives.

1520
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:01,300
All line up, dressed in garments
of white linen, Jesus standing

1521
01:37:01,300 --> 01:37:03,300
in the middle of them and he
teaches them how to do it.

1522
01:37:03,900 --> 01:37:10,000
Wow, ha ha ha.
I would like now now that that

1523
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:12,500
that was written by the
gnostics, okay?

1524
01:37:13,100 --> 01:37:15,900
And when I say gnostics, the
very early gnostics and the

1525
01:37:15,907 --> 01:37:19,600
later gnostics that we hear
about are not the same, okay?

1526
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:25,300
I mean that's that's true for,
you know, the Egyptian religion

1527
01:37:25,300 --> 01:37:29,200
if you want to call it that at
the very beginning looks like

1528
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:32,000
the temple, right?
But over time they began

1529
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,200
adopting, everything else.
And other traditions in the

1530
01:37:34,208 --> 01:37:36,300
pretty soon, the ferals are
building temples under

1531
01:37:36,300 --> 01:37:39,500
themselves instead of temples up
to their God.

1532
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:47,100
Wow, so this is the way.
Well, what are we call it the

1533
01:37:47,100 --> 01:37:52,600
cycle of dispensation apostasy
apostasy cycle, right?

1534
01:37:52,900 --> 01:37:55,400
Yeah.
Surprise surprise anyway, sorry

1535
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:59,100
I got stuff on the side tangent
because I was just slow your

1536
01:37:59,100 --> 01:38:01,500
roll for a second.
We're going to have it.

1537
01:38:01,500 --> 01:38:05,700
So so you're looking for things
that are old.

1538
01:38:05,700 --> 01:38:08,400
Right first century.
Second century.

1539
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:12,600
After after the death burial and
resurrection of the Savior.

1540
01:38:12,700 --> 01:38:18,900
And the we have ancient an
Manuscript of manuscripts are

1541
01:38:18,900 --> 01:38:21,700
these things that are truly
ancient.

1542
01:38:21,900 --> 01:38:26,100
So they I mean so they can be
the monster bleep reuven to be

1543
01:38:26,700 --> 01:38:30,300
authentic in ancient that was
that site.

1544
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,000
Now, for which text, I would
include in my book from the

1545
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:35,500
ancient, not authentic, because
there are lots of ancient

1546
01:38:35,500 --> 01:38:39,500
authentic, Texas, don't say
anything particularly about LDS

1547
01:38:39,500 --> 01:38:42,600
teachings.
So as I put in my preface the

1548
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:47,600
LDS teachings listed herein
We're not pre-selected but we're

1549
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:52,100
included simply because they
presented themselves in one or

1550
01:38:52,100 --> 01:38:55,200
more of the extra conical extra
canonical works.

1551
01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:57,100
So I wasn't looking for
anything.

1552
01:38:57,100 --> 01:39:01,500
I was just reading And when I
would come across as a teaching,

1553
01:39:01,500 --> 01:39:04,700
that was like, what?
What was that doing there?

1554
01:39:04,900 --> 01:39:09,700
That's what I would Mark.
So even so the list of the 179

1555
01:39:09,700 --> 01:39:13,600
teachings, I didn't pre-plan any
of it.

1556
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:18,500
I couldn't I couldn't these are
just 179 things.

1557
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:21,300
Different things that present
themselves and those hundred

1558
01:39:21,300 --> 01:39:24,600
segments and teachings are each
a tested multiple times.

1559
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:28,800
So we're talking about thousands
of ADD test stations of these

1560
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:30,500
teachings.
Wow.

1561
01:39:31,500 --> 01:39:34,400
The temple, for example, the
section on Temple rights.

1562
01:39:34,500 --> 01:39:39,900
It's over 50 pages.
Long and in two tests, every

1563
01:39:39,900 --> 01:39:44,600
aspect of what we do in our
temples today, From 2000 years

1564
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,500
ago in earlier. and the only
people who understand who get it

1565
01:39:48,500 --> 01:39:52,000
are endowed Latter-day Saints,
Everybody else is going well

1566
01:39:52,000 --> 01:40:00,000
that's not Christianity, right?
So is that how you came up with

1567
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,200
things as far as doctrinally
sound?

1568
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:05,100
Which is you would, you would
look at it and say, is this

1569
01:40:05,100 --> 01:40:08,000
something that would be familiar
to Latter-day.

1570
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:10,800
Saints was exactly.
That was the criteria.

1571
01:40:10,900 --> 01:40:14,300
That was the criteria.
I was looking to find what I had

1572
01:40:14,300 --> 01:40:19,800
time to do in my lifetime.
In this lifetime was to find

1573
01:40:20,300 --> 01:40:23,400
out.
Teachings within this body of

1574
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:27,500
literature and it ended up being
a huge.

1575
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:32,400
I mean it was it was for me the
completion of what a nor

1576
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:36,400
Erickson and you nibbly started
and finding corollaries between

1577
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,200
these ancient documents and the
restored gospel.

1578
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:45,200
And someone said what's What's
the greatest thing you learned

1579
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:47,200
from this whole process?
And again, I've kind of

1580
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:52,000
tongue-tied because it's this is
massive, but I would have to say

1581
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:58,100
the overarching question. it has
to be answered but has asked by

1582
01:40:58,100 --> 01:41:03,900
this text If these ancient texts
really do, I mean, if you take

1583
01:41:03,900 --> 01:41:07,100
me at my word and you read the
book and see for yourself, there

1584
01:41:07,100 --> 01:41:09,300
are 179.
Unmistakable.

1585
01:41:09,300 --> 01:41:11,800
Distinct LDS teaching these in
these ancient texts.

1586
01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:14,200
None of which were available to
Joseph Smith.

1587
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:18,700
The question you have to ask is
why, how, how is that even

1588
01:41:18,700 --> 01:41:21,500
possible?
I mean drills, the Smith

1589
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:24,800
produced a lot of stuff more so
more than any other prophet in

1590
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:27,600
history.
More pages of text.

1591
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:31,700
But even so, I mean, so given
that it's a are, I'll give him

1592
01:41:31,700 --> 01:41:39,000
six lucky guesses.
But 179 in incredible,

1593
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:44,900
specificity surprising
specificity names, dates, and

1594
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:51,500
years, and ordinances, and
specific words all in the same

1595
01:41:51,500 --> 01:41:55,700
context that Joseph Smith, gave
to us, which to the modern world

1596
01:41:55,700 --> 01:42:00,900
was utterly foreign. if it is
like that's crazy, no one, no

1597
01:42:00,900 --> 01:42:04,000
one believes that well, two
thousand years ago, they did

1598
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:09,100
Right, half, how do you explain
that?

1599
01:42:09,500 --> 01:42:13,700
And I've actually had a very few
thoughtful people, try to

1600
01:42:13,700 --> 01:42:18,800
explain that, who acknowledge
the significance of what that

1601
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:21,800
is.
How did Joseph Smith Channel,

1602
01:42:22,100 --> 01:42:25,700
ancient Christianity, or even
pre-christian the ancient

1603
01:42:25,700 --> 01:42:30,800
Judaism, omni-channel that Yeah,
well, he well he had, he

1604
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:33,500
secretly had access to the book
of First Enoch.

1605
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:37,800
Which was the first of the
apocryphal texts to be

1606
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:41,700
translated as translated in 1820
in England.

1607
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,500
Yeah, that's that's not making
its way over here that quick in

1608
01:42:46,500 --> 01:42:50,300
Palmyra.
Ya know if this 20 year old punk

1609
01:42:50,300 --> 01:42:53,000
is reading it and I do that's a
stretch.

1610
01:42:53,100 --> 01:42:56,200
And even if let's say for the
sake of discussion, let's say he

1611
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:59,500
did have a secret copy of the
Book of Enoch under his pillow

1612
01:43:00,100 --> 01:43:03,100
Book of Enoch.
It doesn't account for what two

1613
01:43:03,100 --> 01:43:06,700
percent Of the teachings
presented in that book.

1614
01:43:08,300 --> 01:43:10,900
Yeah, it's first.
Enoch is significant but doesn't

1615
01:43:10,900 --> 01:43:15,500
even begin to cover the gamut of
what was restored through Joseph

1616
01:43:15,500 --> 01:43:18,100
Smith.
So he was either the luckiest

1617
01:43:18,100 --> 01:43:22,700
guesser or he was magic or he
was telling the truth, it's what

1618
01:43:22,700 --> 01:43:27,800
we're left with right, I had one
gentleman, try to explain.

1619
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:33,000
He said well it's the teachings
of Plato were in the air at the

1620
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:34,700
time and he was channeling
Plato.

1621
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:41,800
I'm like, first of all PL 8000
the Greek philosopher, Plato.

1622
01:43:41,900 --> 01:43:45,100
Well, I know who you're talking
about Play-Doh, right?

1623
01:43:45,300 --> 01:43:48,900
That either, you know, I would
be surprised at Joe Smith.

1624
01:43:48,900 --> 01:43:54,700
New Play-Doh was And as I
pointed out that did this

1625
01:43:54,700 --> 01:44:00,500
commentator, that the teachings
of Plato were nonspecific, and

1626
01:44:00,500 --> 01:44:02,400
we're talking about Old
Testament characters,

1627
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:08,600
Melchizedek and Shem.
Then Abraham very specific than

1628
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:12,600
Enoch in very specific ways.
I mean, even identifying how

1629
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:16,100
long medic lived when he was
translated Joseph Smith, did

1630
01:44:16,100 --> 01:44:18,700
that nobody else knew about that
until the discovery of these

1631
01:44:18,700 --> 01:44:29,200
documents right now, it's all
It's all there. so does In what

1632
01:44:29,200 --> 01:44:35,000
you were seeing.
Because Joseph did a lot of I

1633
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:38,500
guess you could call it C or
ship or revelatory work here

1634
01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:40,400
concerning the Old Testament,
right?

1635
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:42,800
Yes, we have the inspired
version and that's where my

1636
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:45,500
command God.
Kept after him, you need to get

1637
01:44:45,500 --> 01:44:47,700
back to his fired version of the
Old Testament.

1638
01:44:47,700 --> 01:44:50,600
You know why the majority of the
doctrine covenants came from

1639
01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:54,000
that work and yep, door of his
Revelations came from the

1640
01:44:54,300 --> 01:44:57,400
inspired version of the Bible.
Let me ask you this.

1641
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:03,200
Do you see anything in in the
Apocrypha That's a bull's-eye in

1642
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:06,000
terms of Joseph's work in the
Old Testament.

1643
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:13,100
Yeah, let me count the ways.
Just if you just just a few that

1644
01:45:13,100 --> 01:45:16,900
jump out at you, let me go
through this real quickly.

1645
01:45:18,700 --> 01:45:21,500
And terms of Enoch, the
bull's-eyes.

1646
01:45:21,900 --> 01:45:26,700
Well, let's talk about Abraham,
an angel saying to Abraham

1647
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:30,700
Abraham Abraham.
That Abraham desires, great

1648
01:45:30,700 --> 01:45:33,800
knowledge, that Abraham learned
astronomy, from God, that

1649
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,500
Abraham received an angel from
God, that Abraham was seeking.

1650
01:45:36,500 --> 01:45:39,500
The one true God, that Abraham
was shown all things that

1651
01:45:39,500 --> 01:45:41,600
Abraham taught, astronomy to the
Egyptians.

1652
01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:46,000
That's not biblical that comes
from our book of Abraham writes.

1653
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:48,500
All the tests that is all a
tested in these ancient

1654
01:45:48,500 --> 01:45:53,500
documents repeatedly that Adam
could not change before the

1655
01:45:53,500 --> 01:45:55,600
fall.
That's significant to our

1656
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,200
beliefs of by the Fall was
necessary.

1657
01:45:57,500 --> 01:46:00,900
That is a tested.
Ancient documents that Adam

1658
01:46:00,900 --> 01:46:04,400
presides over the Human family
in priesthood.

1659
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:08,700
That is also a tested in these
documents that Adam had a very

1660
01:46:08,700 --> 01:46:11,800
specific language.
The adamic language also tested

1661
01:46:11,900 --> 01:46:16,200
in these documents then we get
to Enoch.

1662
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:22,100
All the creation is also, we're
taught that creation was

1663
01:46:22,100 --> 01:46:25,400
spiritual and then temporal by
Joseph Smith.

1664
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:27,700
That is a tested in these
documents.

1665
01:46:27,700 --> 01:46:33,500
Wow, verbatim And is that in the
book Old?

1666
01:46:33,500 --> 01:46:35,200
I'm quoting for the book.
Oh, okay.

1667
01:46:35,200 --> 01:46:39,200
Good enough / the want to scrub.
It's all here alphabetically.

1668
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:43,000
Here's Enoch.
We are taught that Enoch was

1669
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,000
taken to heaven and translate it
literally.

1670
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:49,700
That's a tested of course in
first second, and third Enoch,

1671
01:46:50,100 --> 01:46:53,500
the Enoch lived 365 years that's
from Joseph Smith.

1672
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:56,900
Also tested of these documents
that Enoch sees Angels

1673
01:46:56,900 --> 01:46:59,800
descending that Enoch weeps for
the Earth.

1674
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:03,600
That's a tested.
Anyway.

1675
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:08,800
Wow, those are a few.
Wow.

1676
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:15,000
Milk is Adecco, that's good.
So let me ask you this question.

1677
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:18,400
We've been at this now, almost
two hours, just a little less

1678
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,700
than two hours.
What?

1679
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:27,700
For people who would say you
know what, that's all good stuff

1680
01:47:27,700 --> 01:47:30,800
to know, but my my testimony is
strong.

1681
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:32,800
It's efficient.
What?

1682
01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:34,900
Good is it to know about these
things?

1683
01:47:34,900 --> 01:47:36,300
What would, what would you tell
them?

1684
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:40,500
I would say, that's fine.
You don't this book isn't for

1685
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:45,500
everyone.
It is dense and it goes deep and

1686
01:47:48,300 --> 01:47:52,900
My favorite missionary companion
Elders, quick Tommy.

1687
01:47:52,900 --> 01:47:56,100
This quote, there is a hedge
that protects the mysteries of

1688
01:47:56,100 --> 01:47:57,800
God.
It is the hedge of Revelation,

1689
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,600
it, protects the mysteries from
the unprepared.

1690
01:48:02,500 --> 01:48:04,300
And to prepare and it protects
the unprepared for the

1691
01:48:04,300 --> 01:48:07,800
Mysteries.
So that if you're not ready to

1692
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:10,800
read this, don't read it.
It's not for everybody.

1693
01:48:11,500 --> 01:48:16,500
On the other hand people and we
see this a lot in the world, let

1694
01:48:16,500 --> 01:48:20,000
alone within the Church of
people who only want to know

1695
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:22,800
this much.
Right?

1696
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:28,700
The Prophet Joseph Smith Joseph
F Smith Joseph Fielding Smith,

1697
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:32,700
Brigham Young, on down the line,
all taught that you will only be

1698
01:48:32,700 --> 01:48:34,700
saved as fast as you gain
knowledge.

1699
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,800
That no man can be saved in
ignorance or the Book of Mormon

1700
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:42,300
from him that say, if I have
enough shall be taken away, even

1701
01:48:42,300 --> 01:48:47,700
that which he has our quest for
knowledge is the ultimate

1702
01:48:47,700 --> 01:48:51,900
determiner of valiance.
Section, 76 states.

1703
01:48:51,900 --> 01:48:56,900
That only those who those who
will be exalted, are those who

1704
01:48:56,900 --> 01:48:59,200
are Valiant in their testimony
of Jesus.

1705
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:04,300
Not just good.
Which is not a bad thing.

1706
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:07,000
And we are who we are.
There are degrees of

1707
01:49:07,008 --> 01:49:11,000
intelligence are inherent in us.
And so we will.

1708
01:49:11,700 --> 01:49:15,000
And if this vide the plan B, why
agency is the fundamental

1709
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:20,400
governing principle of the plan.
I can't be smarter than I am.

1710
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:22,500
I can't have more intelligence
than I have.

1711
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,300
I can't.
I mean, I was teaching a

1712
01:49:26,300 --> 01:49:30,700
sentence gospel documents, and
a, to drive home.

1713
01:49:30,700 --> 01:49:33,300
This point, I said, raise your
hand if you want to be like,

1714
01:49:33,300 --> 01:49:36,400
Jesus, everybody.
In their class raises their

1715
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:39,100
hand.
I said now raise your hand.

1716
01:49:39,100 --> 01:49:43,000
If you were willing to do, what
Jesus did, nobody raised their

1717
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:45,300
hand.
He had to be crazy to do that.

1718
01:49:46,500 --> 01:49:49,800
Who'd want to go through
Gethsemane who has the capacity

1719
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:54,000
to do that.
None of us do So I don't presume

1720
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:57,300
to know where I'm going to end
up in the eternities.

1721
01:49:57,500 --> 01:50:01,300
I don't possess that knowledge
and that intelligence all I know

1722
01:50:01,300 --> 01:50:06,200
is what I know and what I love
and what what gives me joy and

1723
01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:10,100
happiness and fulfillment.
And that's what I pursue.

1724
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:15,400
And then I have complete and
utter trust in the almighty, in

1725
01:50:15,400 --> 01:50:19,400
the omnipotent, the omniscient.
On Judgement Day, I'll get

1726
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:25,100
exactly what I want.
No more, no less anymore.

1727
01:50:25,100 --> 01:50:27,800
I would be, I couldn't
comprehend it any less.

1728
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:35,000
I would be unfulfilled that is
true for all of us, but I do, I

1729
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:44,000
do have concerns for people who
in, who purposefully limit their

1730
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,600
learning.
They're setting themselves up

1731
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:52,300
for deception.
And especially the world in

1732
01:50:52,300 --> 01:50:55,900
which we live today.
The parable of the ten virgins

1733
01:50:55,900 --> 01:50:59,400
describes it.
Perfectly Christ will come at

1734
01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:02,800
midnight, The Darkest Hour.
The darkness is symbolic of the

1735
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:07,300
absence of Truth, evil
wickedness, deception the father

1736
01:51:07,300 --> 01:51:08,700
of Lies.
I mean, it's who he is.

1737
01:51:08,700 --> 01:51:11,200
It's what he does.
And the world is filled with

1738
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:14,800
darkness.
And the only way any of us will

1739
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:18,900
be able to survive that darkest
hour is by having enough.

1740
01:51:19,100 --> 01:51:23,800
If of our own light, right?
The lamps the oil that's in

1741
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:26,200
there that to provide enough
light for us to make our way

1742
01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:31,600
through the darkness to be.
Part of that second coming, the

1743
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:37,500
great marriage feast and it's
funny of the ten virgins, the

1744
01:51:37,500 --> 01:51:42,000
five that were foolish.
They all had wedding garments.

1745
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:46,800
They all have invitations, they
all had lamps, and they all had

1746
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:51,500
oil and they were all virgins.
So they were righteous, they

1747
01:51:51,500 --> 01:51:54,900
were endowed, they had the
capacity for knowledge.

1748
01:51:54,900 --> 01:51:58,900
They had some truth.
But they didn't have enough.

1749
01:52:00,700 --> 01:52:02,800
Does not enough, you know, and
they got lost.

1750
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:05,200
It's not because they were bad
Spencer.

1751
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:10,400
Kimball he says, the 10 virgins
of the church not the world, the

1752
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:12,400
righteous endowed half of the
righteous.

1753
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,000
Endowed will have insufficient
light.

1754
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:19,700
To make it to the marriage
supper of the Lamb, right?

1755
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:24,800
That's sobering to me and it
should be sobering to all of us,

1756
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:25,800
right?
Yeah.

1757
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:29,400
And it's something that I
remember taking away from the

1758
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:35,600
temple, is this idea of I got to
stop thinking, in terms of just

1759
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:39,200
tell me what I need to do.
Ya got there, right?

1760
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:41,900
Give me give me the checklist,
right?

1761
01:52:42,500 --> 01:52:45,200
When you follow Adam story, he
wasn't.

1762
01:52:45,300 --> 01:52:50,000
Concerned with quote unquote,
just the checklist, it was light

1763
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:54,200
and knowledge, right?
It was it was information.

1764
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:59,700
That could be transformed into
wisdom, and that's what I think

1765
01:52:59,700 --> 01:53:02,900
Mormonism supposed to be doing
for us, right.

1766
01:53:02,900 --> 01:53:10,700
Is not just giving us that light
and knowledge, but Sparking our

1767
01:53:10,700 --> 01:53:15,100
souls in a never-ending quest
for further light knowledge.

1768
01:53:15,200 --> 01:53:18,200
Exactly.
Because without that we cannot

1769
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:23,200
attain to what the father has.
Oh no and we need that light and

1770
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:27,800
knowledge that information which
becomes wisdom to get to where

1771
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:30,500
it is.
We want to be the glory of God

1772
01:53:30,500 --> 01:53:32,800
is intelligence.
Yep yep.

1773
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:36,300
So so this idea of I'm just
going to work the program

1774
01:53:36,300 --> 01:53:39,900
doesn't necessarily I mean look
I would rather a person Work the

1775
01:53:39,900 --> 01:53:45,300
program than not but I feel like
I feel like you're missing out

1776
01:53:45,300 --> 01:53:48,400
on some of the best perks if you
just shut it down at that.

1777
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:55,600
Well, but I've also had to and
being a father teaches us this.

1778
01:53:56,200 --> 01:53:59,400
We don't all have to be exalted.
Not all of us.

1779
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:03,500
Want to be exalted, right there.
Are kingdoms of Glory for

1780
01:54:03,500 --> 01:54:07,200
everyone relative to their
desires and their capacities.

1781
01:54:08,300 --> 01:54:12,200
And so I we get caught in his
trap of gold medal.

1782
01:54:12,200 --> 01:54:15,100
Silver medal, bronze medal,
baloney.

1783
01:54:15,900 --> 01:54:18,700
They're all kingdoms of Glory
all created for the children

1784
01:54:18,700 --> 01:54:22,800
that he loves specifically to
fulfill them.

1785
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:26,400
And what, you know, I imagine
the terrestrial Kingdom will be

1786
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:29,400
the most peaceful place in all
of eternity.

1787
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:33,300
Right, it's Celestial, Kingdom.
We're going to be working their

1788
01:54:33,300 --> 01:54:37,000
asses off.
No, you're good.

1789
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:38,800
I cuts on this but we'll be
working.

1790
01:54:39,400 --> 01:54:46,100
Your good eye cream will be
working, there will be

1791
01:54:46,500 --> 01:54:51,800
struggling, and the heavens will
weep because of the work that is

1792
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:58,500
being done on behalf of this new
eternity and they struggling in

1793
01:54:58,500 --> 01:55:00,200
the suffering in the Sin and the
sorrow.

1794
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:09,400
That is a necessary part.
Our development. so, I don't I

1795
01:55:10,200 --> 01:55:16,400
confess, I used to be pridefully
judgmental of people who didn't,

1796
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:22,700
Who didn't engage?
In a scholarly way, like I enjoy

1797
01:55:22,700 --> 01:55:28,200
doing but in the end not
everybody has to, right?

1798
01:55:28,200 --> 01:55:32,600
Not everybody wants to see if if
you want to do, what God does,

1799
01:55:32,700 --> 01:55:36,400
you have to write?
That's, I mean that's it, but

1800
01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:44,000
God doesn't say everyone has to
do what he does. in fact,

1801
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:50,000
Joseph, F Smith said, the most
interesting thing regarding He

1802
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:52,600
said.
The holy priesthood.

1803
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:55,800
After the order of the Son of
God is the only priesthood we

1804
01:55:55,800 --> 01:56:02,200
know anything about For every
different Kingdom or even degree

1805
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:05,800
within that Kingdom, there's a
different order and the restored

1806
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:09,700
gospel doesn't teach us about
those orders that teaches us

1807
01:56:09,700 --> 01:56:12,100
about the Holy priesthood.
After the order of the Son of

1808
01:56:12,100 --> 01:56:14,500
God, that's the only one we know
anything about.

1809
01:56:15,300 --> 01:56:20,000
We can surmise what the other
orders are about by the choices

1810
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:24,100
that people make, and the
choices that we make now will

1811
01:56:24,100 --> 01:56:27,100
determine the kingdom to which
we are assigned later.

1812
01:56:28,300 --> 01:56:31,500
Which is a reflection of those
choices, right?

1813
01:56:31,800 --> 01:56:36,700
Bike clean with, to like, yep,
we'll go where we choose.

1814
01:56:37,100 --> 01:56:39,900
Yep.
Yeah, I agree with and I love

1815
01:56:39,900 --> 01:56:42,000
what Elder Holland said.
And remember, we're not the

1816
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:44,400
first to ask is there no other
way.

1817
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:48,100
Right?
That was asked in the Garden of

1818
01:56:48,100 --> 01:56:48,600
Eden.
Is it?

1819
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:50,900
No other way?
There is no other way.

1820
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:56,200
This is how it's done.
We have to choose our Destinies

1821
01:56:56,200 --> 01:57:01,500
are self-determined.
God, does not God as the hymn

1822
01:57:01,500 --> 01:57:03,700
says, God will force.
No man to heaven.

1823
01:57:05,500 --> 01:57:10,300
Yep, it wouldn't work.
So one last question before we

1824
01:57:10,300 --> 01:57:14,900
go every book, even a
Concordance.

1825
01:57:16,500 --> 01:57:20,800
Ultimately has.
A message behind it.

1826
01:57:22,700 --> 01:57:27,100
If you were handing this book to
somebody else and you had five

1827
01:57:27,100 --> 01:57:30,000
ten minutes to explain to him
what this book has meant to you

1828
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:32,400
to put it together and what you
hope it means to them.

1829
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:41,300
What would it be?
That there is more of God's

1830
01:57:41,300 --> 01:57:44,400
word.
Aha, there is more.

1831
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:48,600
That's such a hard question to
answer when you try and build a

1832
01:57:50,100 --> 01:57:53,900
Reference work.
And I someone asked and they

1833
01:57:53,900 --> 01:57:55,900
said, what was your premise?
What was your thesis?

1834
01:57:56,400 --> 01:57:59,900
I didn't have a thesis.
There was so much that I had to

1835
01:57:59,900 --> 01:58:03,900
compile this to even make sense
of it at all.

1836
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:11,400
I wasn't, I didn't go about this
trying to prove anything But I

1837
01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:15,500
will say, having said that the
question having completed it.

1838
01:58:15,500 --> 01:58:20,700
Now, the question really does
have to be answered how Why is

1839
01:58:20,700 --> 01:58:23,200
this even this book shouldn't
exist?

1840
01:58:23,700 --> 01:58:28,900
I shouldn't have been able to
compile 400 pages of Joseph

1841
01:58:28,900 --> 01:58:32,700
Smith teachings that turn up in
2000 year old documents.

1842
01:58:34,900 --> 01:58:38,200
That's not that shouldn't be a
thing, it shouldn't be possible

1843
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:42,300
and yet here it is.
Why how?

1844
01:58:43,400 --> 01:58:46,000
How is it?
I mean people should have

1845
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:48,600
laughed at me as I started this
process.

1846
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:51,800
So you'll be lucky to, you know,
come up with two or three

1847
01:58:52,800 --> 01:58:58,600
corollaries, not 179 multiple,
you know, multiplied times for

1848
01:58:59,300 --> 01:59:03,200
on the average.
How does that?

1849
01:59:04,200 --> 01:59:08,800
I mean, my skeptical mind is
like, okay, I found all these

1850
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:13,700
corollaries.
How How did Joseph Smith do

1851
01:59:13,700 --> 01:59:17,000
that?
Why should he even have them?

1852
01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:19,400
Why should why should that even
exists?

1853
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:24,500
Why should they even be a thing?
And the only, you know, Occam's

1854
01:59:24,500 --> 01:59:27,900
razor suggests.
There's only the most rational

1855
01:59:27,900 --> 01:59:30,800
explanation is the one that
Joseph Smith gay.

1856
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:38,100
He wasn't creating anything he
was restoring but has existed in

1857
01:59:38,100 --> 01:59:42,100
multiple dispensations.
Before on this planet my book a

1858
01:59:42,108 --> 01:59:45,000
test to that dispensation of
Adam.

1859
01:59:45,300 --> 01:59:48,900
Dispensation and of Enoch,
dispensation of Noah of

1860
01:59:48,900 --> 01:59:54,000
Melchizedek of Abraham, and
Moses and the dispensation of

1861
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:58,900
Christ.
There is this, they taught the

1862
01:59:58,900 --> 02:00:03,200
same stuff.
Who believes that?

1863
02:00:04,100 --> 02:00:05,000
Right.
That's correct.

1864
02:00:05,100 --> 02:00:07,500
That's crazy.
Talk outside of Mormon of that

1865
02:00:07,500 --> 02:00:10,200
she's crazy stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.

1866
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:21,600
So I I resist.
Encapsulating a 400-page

1867
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:27,300
reference work into one polemic
argument that undermines what

1868
02:00:27,300 --> 02:00:33,700
this book can be, but that is
probably the largest looming

1869
02:00:33,700 --> 02:00:38,500
question that's brought up.
How is this possible, Right?

1870
02:00:39,700 --> 02:00:42,700
How did he do it?
Or did can Peterson just make

1871
02:00:42,700 --> 02:00:44,600
all this stuff up?
Right?

1872
02:00:45,500 --> 02:00:49,300
Well, I don't know you extremely
well, but In these

1873
02:00:49,300 --> 02:00:52,700
conversations, people inevitably
reveal their soul.

1874
02:00:52,700 --> 02:00:56,200
So I have no doubt that this is
not made up, right?

1875
02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:59,300
You've spent too much time doing
it as I've went through this

1876
02:00:59,300 --> 02:01:01,000
book.
Now, over the last couple of

1877
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:04,400
days, I just can't recommend it
highly enough.

1878
02:01:04,400 --> 02:01:10,600
I feel like it's, it can only
serve to deepen one's faith and

1879
02:01:10,600 --> 02:01:14,400
give almost a sense of awe.
That's, that's the one thing

1880
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:18,000
I've taken away with it.
As it continued sense of awe.

1881
02:01:18,700 --> 02:01:27,300
At from the beginning. of time
to now the teachings of the

1882
02:01:27,300 --> 02:01:31,600
restored gospel have always been
there and it has deepened, my

1883
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:35,600
testimony of Joseph Smith, and
of his prophetic calling,

1884
02:01:35,900 --> 02:01:41,900
because for an uneducated, Guy
from the American frontier.

1885
02:01:43,300 --> 02:01:46,700
Who can barely write his own
name without misspelling?

1886
02:01:48,700 --> 02:01:52,100
Has somehow managed to come up
with all of these bulls eyes.

1887
02:01:53,900 --> 02:01:58,700
Again I go back to the science
of statistical probability, it

1888
02:01:58,700 --> 02:02:01,300
just doesn't work.
You have a better chance of

1889
02:02:01,300 --> 02:02:06,500
being struck by lightning, they
you of finding these things.

1890
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:13,200
Well after his death Buried in a
cave on the shores of the Dead

1891
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:16,500
Sea that have sat there for the
better.

1892
02:02:16,500 --> 02:02:22,300
Part of 2000 years undisturbed
translated by other Scholars,

1893
02:02:22,800 --> 02:02:27,400
that just somehow magically
miraculously lineup.

1894
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:33,100
Yeah, with what Joseph Smith had
said, yeah, yeah dude.

1895
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:37,100
I so have enjoyed this
conversation.

1896
02:02:37,100 --> 02:02:39,800
Enjoyed your book.
I got a question for you, okay.

1897
02:02:39,800 --> 02:02:44,000
Could you be willing to come
back on and talk with me at a

1898
02:02:44,008 --> 02:02:47,600
later date?
Just about the, the pistol,

1899
02:02:47,600 --> 02:02:50,400
severe, Sofia?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1900
02:02:50,500 --> 02:02:53,000
Oh yeah, if you be up for that,
oh my gosh.

1901
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:55,400
Yes.
All right, let's let's do that.

1902
02:02:55,700 --> 02:02:58,300
That would be so fun.
All right, the name of the book,

1903
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:00,500
Mormon Doctrine in the
Apocrypha.

1904
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:04,500
A concordance of P of the
teachings of the Church of Jesus

1905
02:03:04,500 --> 02:03:08,000
Christ of Latter-day Saints and
extra canonical writings and

1906
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:11,700
they can find that at Amazon.
Is that right lasagna /?

1907
02:03:11,700 --> 02:03:13,200
Just Google it?
Yeah, there are other places

1908
02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:15,800
they're selling it now but it's
on Amazon where you can buy it

1909
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:22,600
and my life's work, my life's
work for 20 bucks and it's well

1910
02:03:22,600 --> 02:03:25,900
worth the $20.
I mean, yeah, you're not going

1911
02:03:25,900 --> 02:03:29,900
to find a better deal anywhere
else real quick.

1912
02:03:29,900 --> 02:03:32,900
Can if anyone wanted to reach
out to you and and had questions

1913
02:03:32,900 --> 02:03:34,900
for you, where can they They
reach out to you.

1914
02:03:37,000 --> 02:03:38,800
Well, if you go to Facebook,
okay?

1915
02:03:38,900 --> 02:03:42,300
And look at Mormon Doctrine in
the Apocrypha.

1916
02:03:42,300 --> 02:03:43,800
That would get you there.
Perfect.

1917
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:48,900
And then and then if we want to
make personal contact from

1918
02:03:48,900 --> 02:03:51,900
there, I can message you
personal information and I'm

1919
02:03:51,900 --> 02:03:53,700
happy to buy anybody.
Lunch and give you a free copy

1920
02:03:53,700 --> 02:03:55,400
of my book.
Awesome.

1921
02:03:55,800 --> 02:03:59,500
All right, that was great.
All right everyone, we'll see

1922
02:03:59,500 --> 02:04:00,900
you next time.
Bye.