Episode #180: Restoration Scriptures For Orthodox Mormons W/Drew Briney

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Drew, what's going on, man?
Too much, as always.

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Dude, it's a good thing that
like you're not having to do

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this with a feather pen, right?
Like I, I, I can only imagine, I

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could see all, I see all the
books you put out and I'm like,

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you know, just like two people
ago, you'd have to write this by

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it with like a feather, right?
And I'm like.

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Yeah, yeah, I thought about that
with CS Lewis and Tolkien.

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Sometimes I'm like, jeez,
typewriter, right, Right.

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Sounds awful.
Dude, I did, I did a podcast on

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here with Kim Peterson about
Hugh Nibley and we all know how

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how much Hugh Nibley just like
like he was really good about

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his sources, right?
But like he I can't imagine

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having to bookmark that much
stuff, right and then have to

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like just do all that.
Like he'd have notes, binders

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and binders full of resort, you
know where he got it.

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And so as he's footnote and
stuff.

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Yeah.
He would just have to like,

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write all that and then type it
all out.

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And I'm like, I mean, and then,
you know, research wise, right?

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We're so blessed with the
Internet that we can find so

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much stuff now.
Oh, it speeds things up

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enormously.
It really, really does.

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I, I remember, you know, 15
years ago, be writing something

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and every once in a while I'll
be like, oh crap, what am I

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going to do?
I'll go visit the library and

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check it out and see what I can
find.

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You know, Google just wasn't the
same.

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And you know, now you go to Grok
3 and it gives you citations of

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what pages it went to and
everything for you.

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But.
Are you using that?

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Are you using AI yet?
Not for my writing.

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I've, I've used it for a few
things just out of curiosity

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and, you know, try and
understand topics a little bit

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better 'cause there's so much
crap out there.

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I, I, I really like being able
to just conglomerate all the

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sources together.
I'm very distrustful of them

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still because they incorporate a
lot of bias of their, the

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programmers, a lot of bias of
the articles they're reading and

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you know, all this sort of
stuff.

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But it is a nice way to just get
good information, you know, And

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if I'm doing fiction, heck,
it's, it's super easy to go on

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there and say, you know, Max
speeds of a great white shark

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and you know, it tells you
everything.

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Hunting speed, normal speed,
males versus females, you know,

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link sizes, speeds, all the
stuff you don't need.

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But it gives you enough
information that you can just

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say, all right, I, I've got that
from my store.

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I didn't get that detail wrong.
You know, I, I, I know an author

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that got shooed out heavily by
his, his, his followers because

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he mentioned a safety on a gun
and that particular model didn't

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have a safety and his, all of
his Marine constituents were

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pissed about it.
So, you know, you, you've got

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somebody constantly checking you
out, making sure you get

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everything right.
And so I, I, I obsessed maybe

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too, too much over that, but
especially with, you know, with

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gospel stuff.
So I do find myself, you know,

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be getting extra stressed about
those types of things.

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But a lot of times just a quick
Google search will tell you

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what, what you know, confirm
what you thought, you know, even

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if it's just like, you know,
when did this guy get baptized,

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you know, or, or whatever.
Yeah, I, I know I, I made a

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mistake in apostles on trial.
I mentioned one of the brethren

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is referred to frequently as an
apostle by the early brethren

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and I thought he'd been advanced
to the 12th and apparently

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hadn't, but my source said he
had and I had a couple that said

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he had.
So I put it down there and I had

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a couple people get real upset
about it.

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So every little detail like
that, you know, I'm, I'm, you

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know, I might even have a source
of the book, but I'll, I'll

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still look and I'll check it on
on online, make sure.

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Was that date right?
You know, was that the, the

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married name or the premier name
or, you know, whatever those

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details might be.
So.

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But I don't use it for help
writing at all or getting.

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Just kind of for research more
than anything else.

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Yeah, especially lately, like
most of the stuff I've been

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doing lately is is not so much
investigative reporting so much

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as getting back to the originals
and getting rid of all the

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changes that have have been put
into the the sources that we are

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most familiar with.
Gotcha.

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Gotcha.
Yeah, I'm pretty distrustful of

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it too, but for entirely
different reasons.

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Because at this point it's kind
of starting to make Terminator

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look like a documentary.
And, you know, like, I see, I I

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see what it's starting to do.
And then, you know, Boston

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robots, robotics come out with
some of their stuff and I'm

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like, yeah, it's.
Spooky.

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We shouldn't.
We should, we shouldn't do this.

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Muska's putting those things out
at 10 grand for the base models

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now.
I mean, that's that's affordable

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for a lot of families.
Dude, that's less than a car.

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Yeah, that's what I mean.
I mean, it's not affordable for

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me.
I'm not saying that I wish it

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was, but yeah, that's so cheap.
I mean, when you think about

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what it can do and what it's,
you know, and so you plug it in

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and just have it make you
breakfast every day, what what

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else can it do?
It's pretty amazing for that

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kind of a price range, Yeah.
Yeah, again, like, look, I, I

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like humanity.
I really do.

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I like people, right?
However, however, I've seen

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people do enough stupid stuff
that I'm not sure we're ready

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for robots yet.
I, I just think we need to, to,

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to think this one over.
Pump the brakes.

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At least not intelligent ones.
Right, right.

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Like C3PO or something, or
sorry, R2D2.

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So they're not, you know, they,
they don't have much to scare

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you with.
Right, right.

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Right.
Yeah.

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No, I, I I'm just like when,
when?

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On the other hand, I'll say
this, Drew, I'll get even more

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nervous when we can figure out,
you know how.

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Like now in public restrooms,
it's all done by sensor.

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And half the time it doesn't
work, right?

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You wave your hand under there
and it never works.

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So maybe I'm worrying for
nothing, right?

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Go to the same gym.
Pretty much.

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Pretty much.
Yeah, exactly.

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Exactly.
Well dude, what are we talking

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about today?
You know, I was, I was actually

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thinking about that.
I'm like, shoot, you know what?

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We've we've talked about doing 3
different podcasts so.

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I know, I know, it's funny,
there almost seems to be a

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podcast season.
I'll be honest with you, like

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once October hits, things get a
little sparse.

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I always have enough to do.
But man, come about this time of

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year, I've noticed it picks up.
I don't know if people just

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start doing projects and getting
ambitious, but this is about the

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time of year where where I have
a lot of people beating down my

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door.
Interesting SO and I can't

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figure it.
Out.

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No idea.
Me neither, me neither.

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Who knew?
For me it's every three months

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or so.
It's.

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Just, I know, well that's 'cause
you put out a book about that

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often.
It's incredible.

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And, and I want to make sure
that we talk about them because

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it's all good stuff.
Well, it's, it's, it's, you

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know, I've, I've in all honesty,
I was really enjoying a lot of

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the stuff I was doing a lot more
than I've enjoyed the last

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couple projects.
But that said, I think my last

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couple projects are the more
important things that I've done.

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They've just been painfully
tedious to perform.

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Yeah, I literally spent and,
and, and I don't, I don't, you

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know, I don't keep super tight
track of my time, but I spent

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roughly 3 months full time just
doing punctuation stuff.

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And I can tell you I, I lost
five years of my life to that

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endeavour because it was so
painful.

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I would almost rather dig
ditches all day long than then

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determine if it's semi colon
versus a colon makes a

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difference.
But you know, sometimes it does.

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And it's, it's a really
interesting thing to think about

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and wonder if there was any
intentionality there or not, you

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know, right.
I was going to say that's the

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whole reason I decided to do a
podcast and not a blog.

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It's 'cause I'm.
Like, I don't, I don't have a

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good enough command of
punctuation to even make that

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work, so good on you.
So what do you got?

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Well, I think the the last few
projects that I've been working

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on and and a continual project
actually that that that we were

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talking about is, is what we're
referring to as the the JSV or

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Joseph Smith version of
scriptures.

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So should I just kind of give a
foundational what that is?

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And yeah, give a?
Foundational thing and then

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we'll dive in.
All right, so I've, I've been

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wanting to do this for years.
And in fact, when I was in the

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AUB, one of the bishops came to
me and said, Drew, you know,

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we're using this church as
scriptures, but the, the, the

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scriptures tell us that we're
supposed to be putting our

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tithing money to printing
scriptures.

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So why are we using these
scriptures that somebody else

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put out that pushes their agenda
and their, you know, their stuff

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when we could have our own
versions?

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And, you know, how much has
changed anyways?

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Like, you know, is it a big
difference or a little

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difference or what?
He's just kind of talking to me

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about it.
And I said, you know, I'd love

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to do a project where we had as
if a fundamentalist version of

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the, the scriptures and, and you
know what, what would that look

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like and so forth.
So we talked quite a bit about

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it.
He asked permission for the

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council.
They basically said, forget it.

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We're not paying for that sort
of thing.

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And so he, he started buying
some books for me through I'm,

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I'm oversimplifying that, but he
bought some books for me to kind

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of help me so I could do it
sometime.

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But I said, you know, doing it
without funding, I could take 10

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years.
It's, it's a massive project.

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And I've already been, you know,
this over the last couple years,

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I've been working on the Joseph
Smith or the, sorry, the DNC

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annotated project and got a
couple volumes of that out.

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But that's a, that's a lot of
work to do And, and without, you

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know, a, a really good
fundraiser, you just can't do it

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fast.
You know, I did a fundraiser for

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the DNC annotated and it was got
about roughly 30% of what I

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needed.
And so, you know, it took it

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from from being a 10 year
project to being a four year

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project or something, maybe 5, I
don't know, hopefully only four.

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But it that's, you know, you
just you, you can't, you can't

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do something that big without
support.

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And so I've, I've kind of had it
in my mind that I wanted to do

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this and, and, and for the, for,
for the following reasons.

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And I'll, I'll give it a little
bit of my background here as, as

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I'm, as I'm talking about that,
I, I back it.

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When I was in college, I took
the the Joe Smith translation

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course from Robert J Matthews
and interviewed him about it,

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talked to him about it,
underlined and marked the 3410

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versus the Joseph changed in the
in the old New Testaments.

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And, you know, went through that
whole project and wanted a

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complete JST wanted to produce 1
at some point in the future.

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Because not only did he make
those changes, but in his

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discourses, he made several more
changes.

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And, you know, we, we have cross
references to the DNC and

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sometimes to the Book of Mormon
of some of these scriptures that

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have alterations or changes that
he made somewhere else that, you

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know, you can compare and
contrast.

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So that had been on my mind for
a long time, but then I started

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realizing, you know, how much,
how many changes had been made

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to the Doctrine Covenants and,
and, you know, as a member of

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the church at the time, I'm
like, well, but yeah, it's just

221
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,440
grammatical.
It doesn't really matter.

222
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,720
And, you know, who cares?
And, you know, you just kind of

223
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,600
go along with the, the, the
stream of things and and that's

224
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,800
all well and good.
But sooner or later I started

225
00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,120
finding more and more
significant changes that were

226
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,640
made and got interested in it
and also started realizing there

227
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,840
are a lot of unpublished
revelations of Joseph Smith and

228
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,280
trying to remember.
I don't want to say it wrong.

229
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:29,160
Smoot in Pasantino put out a of
the uncanonized revelations

230
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,440
earlier this year, which was
really discouraging for me

231
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,280
because that's part of what the
project was about.

232
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,360
But at any rate, I was, so I
was, I started working on the

233
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,720
DNC annotated because I thought
that's the most significant.

234
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,640
There's some interesting stuff
in the Book of Mormon that's

235
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,840
been changed.
Definitely some interesting

236
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,480
stuff in the in the Pearl of
Great Price.

237
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,040
A lot of that's been written
about, so it's a little bit

238
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,240
easier to find.
But with the DNC, you know,

239
00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,480
we've got a, there's a Kurt
bench that put out the, the, the

240
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,640
parallel version of three, the
three earliest versions of the

241
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,720
DNC book of commitments.
But those are parallel.

242
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,560
And if, if I just want to read
scriptures, I'm not going to

243
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,240
read a parallel version.
If I want to study, I'll do

244
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,360
that.
But I wanted a version that I

245
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,240
could like, read and study, you
know what I mean?

246
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,440
Like, why do they have to be
separate same time?

247
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,360
So at any rate, so I started
that DNC annotated project and

248
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,240
I, I, I love that I learned so
much.

249
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,000
I probably learned more from
doing DNC 76 annotated than

250
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,080
anything I've done my whole life
gospel study wise.

251
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,000
And again, when I did 42 learned
in a massive amount, I was

252
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,360
shocked how much I learned.
Was really, really enjoying

253
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,760
that.
And then I had a visitor come

254
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,320
over to my house.
Somebody had never really met

255
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,520
before and, and I'll, I'll keep
his name quiet for now 'cause I

256
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,080
don't know if he'd like the
airtime or whatever.

257
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,920
But anyway, he was just came
over to my house.

258
00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,040
He said, I've heard about you.
I've got this thing that I've

259
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,560
been interested in doing and I
want to know if you'd be

260
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,080
interested.
And so we talked for a number of

261
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,640
hours and he said, you know, I
would like to get a, a pure

262
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,720
version of the scriptures out
and by pure version what he

263
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,120
meant.
And I'm simplifying the this a

264
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,840
little bit now, but by pure
version, what he meant was let's

265
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,200
get a version that was approved
by Joseph Smith that, you know,

266
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:32,640
has modern versification and,
and is, is, is clean, you know,

267
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,000
clean of errors and that sort of
stuff.

268
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,920
And I, I had some disagreements
with him on some details and,

269
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:44,000
and, and, and, and his partner
who is willing to, to, to fund

270
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,320
this a little bit.
And I say a little bit, I'm not

271
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,880
trying to undermine what they
did, but it, they, they weren't

272
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,080
able to fund it as much as they
were hoping and as much as I

273
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,600
needed to do it full time.
So it's taking extra time to get

274
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,160
it done.
But when, whenever we talked

275
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,160
about these things, I said,
look, you know, I ended up just

276
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,880
kind of educating the parties
involved about some of the

277
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,280
things that were going on in the
scriptures.

278
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,320
I was, I was kind of surprised a
couple of them didn't know.

279
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,040
But I, I, I realized while
there's a whole lot of even

280
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,480
misunderstanding fundamentalists
as to what Joseph actually did

281
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,240
in producing the Book of Mormon
or what he did in producing the

282
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,040
Doctrine Covenants.
Explain that real quick.

283
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,480
OK, great.
So for example, a lot of people

284
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,640
are like, well, Joseph did the
paragraphs, right?

285
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,320
So we can't get rid of the
paragraphs.

286
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,480
No, he didn't.
He had nothing to do with the

287
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,560
paragraphs.
The paragraphs in the Book of

288
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,720
Mormon were done by the printer
and he made the decision as

289
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,920
where to start.
A new paragraph based upon when

290
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,160
and it came to pass showed up.
OK.

291
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,240
And I don't know how many people
are remotely aware.

292
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,200
I wasn't.
But as I recall there are 23119

293
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,880
version entries of and it came
to pass or versions of it

294
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,400
somewhere in the Book of Mormon.
So that's how many paragraphs

295
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,720
you have inspired, right?
Interesting.

296
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,760
Can't change that Joseph did it.
So that's that's just not true.

297
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,160
Personally, I like reading the
paragraph format and so did

298
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,640
everybody else on the on the
committee.

299
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,680
But then you don't have the the
verses.

300
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,560
It doesn't lend well the study
right.

301
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,560
You can't reference things
quickly and.

302
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,560
So if I'm, if I'm reading, you
know, for instance, this book

303
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,839
here by Pasantino and Smoot,
sorry, do it backwards.

304
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,960
If I'm referencing that book and
it's talking about the Book of

305
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,800
Mormon, I'm not going to find it
in in a lithographic reprint

306
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,680
because of the verses.
So we wanted to put those in.

307
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,680
So I said, you know, let's just
follow the Christians example on

308
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,760
this and put small greyish foot
or the, the verses so you could

309
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,880
still find them, but they're not
intrusive.

310
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:53,400
So we decided to do that.
But the next thing is, OK, so

311
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,600
Joseph, you know, he, Joseph did
punctuation right?

312
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,520
And the answer is wrong in the
Book of Mormon.

313
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,160
We, we have some of, of his
handwriting here and there, but

314
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,120
not very much.
And he had scribes do almost the

315
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:09,360
entire thing.
Yeah.

316
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,920
The printer's manuscript was
entirely copied.

317
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,560
I say entirely.
It might somebody who knows the

318
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,440
the study might be get me on a
detail like this.

319
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,320
But it was pretty much done by
Oliver Cattery.

320
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:20,680
He might have had a little bit
of help, but.

321
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,480
And he made two to three errors
per page.

322
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,080
And and that's, that's coming
from, pardon me getting up here,

323
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:36,520
but I, I think it's worth it.
The this book by Skousen, not

324
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,680
clean on Skousen, but I think
it's probably a Sutter.

325
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,640
He he puts a lot of facts in a
lot of research into the

326
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,080
original manuscript, trying to
recreate it, which is great.

327
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,360
It did really great scholarships
about 30 years of his life's

328
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,960
work too.
So, you know, guy deserves a

329
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,080
medal for spending that much
time on the Book of Mormon.

330
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,160
But you know, it, it doesn't
really match what, what I'm

331
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,120
trying to do or what, what I'm
interested in, but it was a

332
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,400
great resource to look at.
But he does paragraphing based

333
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,240
on just looking at the content
like you would as if if you were

334
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,600
the author.
And, you know, looking at his

335
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,080
work, he did a pretty good job.
I, I was mostly impressed with

336
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,720
how he did it.
So for, for our broken Mormon,

337
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,280
we followed his paragraphing
mostly.

338
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,680
There were some exceptions and
he doesn't do anything with

339
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,400
dialogue as an author.
You know, I see, you know, one

340
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,640
of the Antichrist talking to the
prophet goes back and forth,

341
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,960
back and forth.
I wanna see a paragraph break,

342
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,920
you know, I wanna be able to to
say where's that conversation

343
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,800
and look and find the
conversation.

344
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,440
So that was one thing that that
we changed.

345
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,240
And there are several dialogues,
a lot more than I, I thought.

346
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,600
But you know, now that I've gone
through it seems obvious, but

347
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:59,200
you know, you know, we've got
dialogue between Nephi and the

348
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,000
servant of Laban.
We've got Nephi and his

349
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,000
brothers, Nephi and his father.
We've got dialogue between the

350
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,440
the three antichrists and
whoever they're with.

351
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,760
And you know, dialogue between
Morona and the people that he's

352
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,440
scalping and that sort of stuff.
So, you know, there's, there's

353
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,200
several different versions of of
dialogue in there.

354
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,880
Of course, Christ when he comes
to visit is mostly a monologue.

355
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,480
So we don't get that so much as
a dialogue, but still separated

356
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,240
things like that.
But.

357
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,240
But I was surprised how many
people I had to, when talking

358
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,560
about it that didn't know the
paragraphing wasn't done by

359
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,360
Joseph, didn't know punctuation
wasn't done by Joseph.

360
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,600
And further, the punctuation
provided a bigger problem.

361
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,920
And that's this the the people
involved didn't know what they

362
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,040
were doing.
The the Book of Mormon wasn't

363
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,640
awful.
And, and, and I, I say that kind

364
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,680
of tenderly.
It, it wasn't awful.

365
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,320
It wasn't good either, but at
least it was fairly consistent.

366
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:04,760
It was mostly one guy whose idea
of what whatever 19th century

367
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,640
punctuation was supposed to be,
what it's supposed to look like.

368
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,920
And he was fairly consistent.
Not really, but pretty

369
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,240
consistent.
You know, for, for the most part

370
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,160
he was pretty consistent.
So going through and, and doing

371
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,560
punctuation on that was a lot
easier than the DNC, where the

372
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,800
DNC punctuation done was done by
a committee of about 5 different

373
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,200
men and they all did different
stuff.

374
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,120
And we don't know, for instance,
you know, what, what did the

375
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,440
what did the semi colon mean to
them back then?

376
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,080
I mean, they they used it a lot.
What did a like, what did a

377
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,400
colon mean to them?
They used it a lot.

378
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,560
It they used it like a period,
we don't really use it like a

379
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,120
period now.
We try to not use it at all, but

380
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,720
it it's got like 5 or 6 or 7
different possibilities of what

381
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,400
it's used for depending on how
pedantic you want to be about

382
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,920
separating ideas and thoughts
and so forth.

383
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,400
And we don't know what they
thought about it because it

384
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,840
wasn't standardized.
Right.

385
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,640
The A period is standard, but
they didn't use a period very

386
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,600
often.
Frankly, they use semi colon in

387
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,880
common more than they used a
period.

388
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,760
So when, when, when going
through the punctuation, I, I

389
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,360
ran into, you know, so it was,
it was just the DNC punctuation

390
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,600
was just awful.
I mean, just to be blunt, it's,

391
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,280
it's bad enough that the grammar
is rough.

392
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,840
It's bad enough that the old
English is wrong and incorrect

393
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,000
in several instances.
It, it's bad enough that you're

394
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,440
jumping with verses that that
are, are separating things in,

395
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,720
in odd places from time to time.
But put that all together and

396
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,960
then have a committee of five
totally different people doing

397
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,840
the the editing on it and it
really becomes quite a problem.

398
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,200
So those those five guys, was
that while Joseph was alive or

399
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:53,880
after?
He was, Yeah.

400
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,080
OK.
Joseph appointed a committee and

401
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,960
it's talked about a little bit
in the Doctrine of Covenants

402
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,520
itself, but the appointed a
committee to go through and and

403
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,080
revise the scripture.
DNC 57 commands him to revise

404
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,800
the scriptures and prepare him
for publication.

405
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,120
In a private letter to WW
Phelps, who was one of the

406
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,760
people he wrote and said, you
know, I want you to revise it

407
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,360
and change stuff, but don't
change the sense of it, don't

408
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,120
change the meaning.
And then he kind of alludes to

409
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,040
the curses in the in the Old
Testament or, you know, other

410
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,200
places he says for, you know,
the curse are those who change

411
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,760
scriptures, right?
So he clearly didn't see grammar

412
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,720
as changing it.
It just, you know, and even

413
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,000
adding something to clarify it
wasn't changing it to him.

414
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,040
Only if you change the sense,
which that's a whole rabbit

415
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,480
hole.
Oh yeah.

416
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:48,560
Well, that's that's kind of a
broad that gives somebody a lot

417
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,800
of room to do stuff, right?
It does.

418
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Some good and so.
Bad I would imagine.

419
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,440
Huh.
Some good and some bad I would

420
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,200
imagine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

421
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,000
You know, and I found a lot of
things there where and, and, and

422
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,120
we're kind of veering off a
little bit, but I think it's

423
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:05,680
helpful to create this
foundation.

424
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:11,400
For instance, you know, there
are places Joseph Smith, this

425
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,320
isn't super well known, I think
I mentioned on a previous

426
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,320
podcast with you, but Joseph
Smith was kind of when, as he

427
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,480
was revising the Book of Mormon,
he was revising stuff of the

428
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,720
D&C.
He was getting rid of clunky,

429
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,200
hard to read sentences and
replacing them with stuff that's

430
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,960
easier to understand.
And you know, the committee was

431
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,040
doing the same thing.
So sometimes I might say Joseph

432
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,120
did D&C, but we really don't
know if it was Joseph of the

433
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,560
committee.
But there was a pattern that

434
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,320
he's trying to make them easier
to read and easier to

435
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,520
understand.
And he was also getting rid of a

436
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,880
lot of Old English.
He got rid of, I think 43

437
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,920
versions of Andy came to pass,
deleted them out of his 1840

438
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,600
edition of the Book of Mormon.
So, you know, so you've got all

439
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,920
these, all these intentions, but
you've got different people

440
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,280
doing them.
So you might have one person,

441
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,520
for instance, in the committee
who's from England and who will

442
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,280
remain nameless.
Maybe there were two of them,

443
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
but they want to correct
spelling so that it matches

444
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,960
British spelling.
So saviours, FSAVIOUR and, you

445
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,760
know, favours, FAVOUR and stuff
like that.

446
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,680
And so they're changing the
original manuscripts to have

447
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,200
this English spelling for
British English.

448
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,640
And then somebody else is seeing
British English in a previous,

449
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,880
you know, book of commandments
or something.

450
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,720
They're taking it out and making
it American English spelling.

451
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,480
You know, you've got people
literally, there are places

452
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,320
where they had a comma.
They changed it to a semi colon.

453
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,320
It gets reprinted into another
edition, gets changed back to a

454
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,520
comma.
And then, you know, it gets to,

455
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,600
you know, to 1835 editions
printed.

456
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,440
And now they put it a period
there.

457
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,000
And then 1837 comes along, they
put a semi colon there.

458
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,560
You know, it's just back and
forth and we don't know what

459
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,640
they were thinking.
There's it's not like they're

460
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,280
editing and saying, oh, well, I
think these sentences are

461
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,120
related.
They need a semi colon or if

462
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,160
they're like, well, I don't
really think this is a complete

463
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,200
sentence, even though it might
be because of some technical

464
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,720
reason that was different back
then.

465
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,160
And so I put a semi colon here
because it's not really period.

466
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,880
We we just don't know what they
were doing.

467
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,040
And so as I went through it, the
Doctrine Covenants took me twice

468
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,360
as long as the entire Book of
Mormon, which is longer because

469
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,800
they were inconsistent.
They each did it their own

470
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,080
different way.
And so I get used to, you know,

471
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,280
a, a section of the Doctrine
Covenants to be like, oh, OK,

472
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,480
zip through that one.
And the next one, I'd be looking

473
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,560
at it and thinking, OK, does
that colon change the meaning?

474
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,720
And almost never does it change
the meaning.

475
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,200
But one of the uses of a colon
is to say the second clause or

476
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,280
the second part of the sentence,
depending on how you want to

477
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,360
call it, is clarifying the
first.

478
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,240
That's kind of like a semi
colon, except for it's not

479
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,240
saying they're just related.
It's saying the second one

480
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,520
clarifies the 1st.
And so sometimes I, I, I'd look

481
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,120
at it and I'm like, well, it
doesn't clarify at all.

482
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,520
It, it can't be the use, you
know, period's good there.

483
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,840
Or maybe you should consider a
semi colon there, you know, but

484
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,440
you have to kind of think
through these things.

485
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,040
But I I did leave several,
probably, I don't know 1520 of

486
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,760
them in the DNC because I
couldn't decide.

487
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,600
I don't know if that's what they
were using the semi colon for.

488
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,240
They're trying to say the second
clarifies the 1st, and I can

489
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,800
read it that way.
Then I would leave it that way.

490
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,520
However, sometimes that changes
the meaning.

491
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,680
Then I would drop a footnote and
say the original has a colon.

492
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,440
So I left it.
It might have been a printer.

493
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,840
It might have been somebody who
was really sleepy, didn't know

494
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,040
what a colon was for.
It might just mean, you know, I

495
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,280
think there needs to be a break
here.

496
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,400
That's what a colon's for,
right?

497
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,800
I don't know.
I think so.

498
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,520
So that's what they did.
We really don't know what it was

499
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,440
for.
But on the off chance that they

500
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,880
knew what they were doing and
they did it for that purpose, I

501
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,640
left it there.
And then a footnote said if I

502
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,840
change this to semi colon, this
can change the meaning.

503
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,680
Here's why.
If I change it to period, it

504
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,840
changed the meaning.
Here's why.

505
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,880
So the reader can decide, you
know, what's correct doctrine.

506
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:18,920
Let me give you an example of
this.

507
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,600
Oh, shoot, I had it up, but I
had to relaunch my computer to

508
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:28,080
get on the zoom.
There's an interesting common or

509
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,840
well known scripture, I should
say the Book of Mormon, that

510
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,760
does this.
And I'm pulling it up as we

511
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,000
speak, but it it'll take me just
a minute here.

512
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,160
No, you're good.
This will give me a chance to

513
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:44,400
ask a few questions here.
So one kind of good on you for

514
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,600
leaving, given an explanation on
why what you found, right In

515
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,280
surveying, a lot of times the
field work we do is all about

516
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,760
collecting evidence, right?
Yeah, you meant those sorts of

517
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,440
things.
And I worked with a guy who was

518
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,800
really good and he used to say
no one can ever call you a liar

519
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,160
by showing what you found.
Right.

520
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,480
And and that is I think a really
important principle here that it

521
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,760
sounds like you have you, you've
incorporated into this.

522
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Now my my next question is there
was no help at all.

523
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,000
There was nothing that you could
go back to an equivalent of

524
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,600
Webster's 1820 or something like
that where you could say OK for

525
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,880
the most part, it meant this.
Punctuation meant this in this

526
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,520
scenario.
Yeah.

527
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,520
So, so I can do that, but it
gets really speculative and

528
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,880
it's, it's a bit problematic
because first of all, the Book

529
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:46,680
of Mormon was transcribed before
1828 in large part, I actually

530
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,840
don't know the date that it was
totally finished.

531
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,840
I should have that memorized,
but I don't.

532
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,080
So, but you know, but then
you've got, well, that's kind of

533
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,640
representing maybe a couple
decades or not, but the 1828

534
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:05,440
dictionary was also the kind of
the pioneer of, of codifying

535
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,400
things.
And and so the question is

536
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,520
because it was kind of a
pioneering work and it was brand

537
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,880
new to those brethren.
Did they consulted at all?

538
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520
We have no knowledge that they
consulted those at all.

539
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,240
Did they have the same ideas?
Well, certainly the guys from

540
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:31,560
England probably didn't.
Well, maybe that's that's not

541
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,160
fair to it.
You know, it doesn't seem that

542
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,040
they would be as likely to be as
familiar with it as American

543
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,520
would be.
And on the other hand, you know,

544
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,320
as is it, it's appears to be
kind of an effort to codify

545
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,760
things.
Was it well received?

546
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,440
Was it, was it something that,
yeah, that's exactly what we use

547
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,120
it for?
Or was it more like, well,

548
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,080
that's not how we do it.
You know, we guys from New

549
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,160
England, we do it differently.
And the guys from, you know,

550
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,760
South, southern United States do
it differently.

551
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,680
And you guys are trying to push
your northerner perspective on

552
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,440
us and we don't like it.
Yeah, I don't know how much of

553
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,520
that was playing.
And that's probably a, a, a very

554
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,120
niche book that I've never run
across, seen or found, right.

555
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,320
That's how it was received.
So I think that it requires an

556
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,600
awful lot of speculation.
Even looking at that.

557
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,320
I think the best we can really
do is say, you know, we've got

558
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,400
20 rules for a semi colon for
for is it for example.

559
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,240
I don't, I'm just throwing a
number out.

560
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,520
It's not going to be 20.
That's fine, but it's not like

561
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,080
there are three.
Right.

562
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,280
And the chances are of those 8
rules or 10 rules or 20 rules,

563
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,600
whatever that is, that
incorporates the three that they

564
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,240
were using back then too.
But which ones were they not

565
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,680
using?
We, we just we, we don't know

566
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,720
because they didn't say we
didn't do this.

567
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,560
And the only hints that we have
of a codified version of it come

568
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,920
from a single source that may
not have represented what those

569
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,240
people were thinking at the
time.

570
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,800
So it's, it really is left to
speculation.

571
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,120
It's, it's like that, you know,
the spelling, if anything, they

572
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,160
didn't seem to have any indicia
of, of some sort of codified

573
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,400
spelling in the Doctrine of
Covenants or in the Book of

574
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,720
Mormon.
The Book of Mormon's better

575
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,440
because it had it went through a
printer and he edited it and got

576
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,840
it pretty standardized.
But there's still some things in

577
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,000
there that we wouldn't let float
today for spelling wise.

578
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,800
So at any rate, those leave some
challenging holes in our game

579
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,360
that we we can't, you know, we
know a period means the end of a

580
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,200
sentence to us.
It probably get to them because

581
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,520
they didn't use it that much and
every time they did, that's what

582
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,000
it meant.
But when it comes to a semi

583
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,840
colon man, I'm they're, they're
just not consistent.

584
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
I'm like, why isn't there a
period here 'cause there's no

585
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,760
reason there can't be a period
here.

586
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,240
And, and it's, you know, are you
trying to say these two

587
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,720
sentences are, are related
because this one starts out with

588
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,200
their force.
So it kind of tells you it's

589
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,960
related just by the word there.
You don't need to, what do we

590
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,040
call it?
The period?

591
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,760
It should be good, but you know,
second guessing that becomes

592
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,760
interpretive as well.
And so I, I, I, I took me so

593
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,080
long to go through it, partially
because, and I can't say this

594
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,880
happen every single sentence,
but partially because I would

595
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,360
stop and I would say, wait,
which?

596
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,480
What's the best punctuation
here?

597
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,720
I think the cleanest is to use a
period.

598
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,980
They used a semi colon.
Is there any reason that semi

599
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:42,120
colon changes the meaning?
And if it does, I leave it.

600
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,240
Gotcha.
If it's insignificant in minor

601
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,080
and only in academics going to
ever notice it, then I leave it

602
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,360
and I don't footnote it.
Gotcha.

603
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,480
There are plenty of those
because a semi colon functions

604
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,400
kind of like a period for most
people and they're just not

605
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200
really going to notice.
But there are some that did make

606
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,960
a difference.
I want to share that one with

607
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,480
you.
I mentioned earlier and now it's

608
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:11,840
kind of a a good time.
This is in 2nd Ephite 2 where he

609
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,520
says Adam felt that men might be
and men are that they might have

610
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,560
joy.
OK, we've all heard that.

611
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,639
We're familiar with it.
It used a colon there.

612
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,400
Adam felt that men might be
colon and men are that they

613
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,360
might have joy.
OK, now, if they had intention

614
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,480
behind that it's one of the
possibilities is they're trying

615
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,639
to say men are that they might
have joy modifies and clarifies.

616
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,000
Adam fell that men might be so
you say OK, well, that's that's

617
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,120
simple enough.
We it's kind of the point of the

618
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:51,600
the verse that we get it.
However, one possible reading,

619
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,159
let me emphasize that you don't
have to read it that way.

620
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,320
One possible reading of this
punctuation is that joy comes

621
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,960
after this life as a result of
the final redemption from the

622
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,560
fall.
A semi colon here would simply

623
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,120
suggest we exist to have joy.
That's how everybody interprets

624
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,640
it, or at least everybody that I
know interprets it.

625
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,880
And the colon can be read to
have that implication as well.

626
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,280
But you could read it to say, I
think that reason they put a

627
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,600
colon there is they're trying to
say men are, that they might

628
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:25,120
have joy in the afterlife
because that's why he fell, so

629
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,760
that after the redemption, we'll
have joy.

630
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Well, you know, that's a massive
theological change in the

631
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,920
understanding.
One is, and I've heard this a

632
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,440
lot among fundamentalists, I'm
just supposed to suffer my whole

633
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,200
life so that eventually I'll be
happy in heaven, right?

634
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,480
And we've got some doctrines to
teach that suffering is good for

635
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,040
us and we need to endure it
well, and it's part of our

636
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,120
testing and that's what God
wants us to do.

637
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:57,440
But there, there's, there's this
ballooning ideology around that,

638
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,880
that life is supposed to suck.
We're supposed to be miserable.

639
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,280
And part of being miserable is
with the promise that it's, it's

640
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,280
won't last forever, but we'll be
happy later.

641
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,000
And that interpretation is
rampant with that semi or with

642
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,840
that colon.
You can, you can read that more

643
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,360
clearly.
And again, you don't have to,

644
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,240
but you can read it more
clearly.

645
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,240
Whereas if I put a semi colon
there, it's not there.

646
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,320
It's, it's not there at all.
And you know, and the, the semi

647
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,640
colon says we're supposed to
have joy here, right?

648
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,880
That's the, the mainstream LDS
perspective is we're supposed to

649
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:39,800
be have joy here, right?
So, so to, to heck with all

650
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,360
these hard doctrines, we don't
want to live.

651
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,560
We're just not going to, we're
not going to, we're not going to

652
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,360
accept some of these early
doctrines because they don't

653
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,160
bring joy, right as plural
marriage is the the chief

654
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,840
offender there where they talk
about that.

655
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,480
So, so that supports that
reading, which makes it

656
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,760
controversial.
So it in, I don't read it the

657
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,000
the first way.
I don't I think suffering is

658
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,560
part of our life experience.
That's part of what we need to

659
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,360
do to grow.
That's part of what matures you

660
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,840
and makes you ready to become
ready for exaltation, all those

661
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040
types of things.
I don't think we're supposed to

662
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,320
be miserable every day of our
lives here and then all of a

663
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,560
sudden we'll magically be happy
there, right?

664
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,080
We're we're going to have the
same disposition there as here.

665
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,120
So, so I don't personally
believe that, but I footnoted it

666
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,120
there.
And it's a lengthy footnote

667
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,120
because it can be read that way.
And I think it's significant

668
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,360
that it's read that could be
read that way.

669
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,880
And people should be able to
look at it and see why is that

670
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,000
semi colon there?
Or why is it sorry?

671
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,440
Why is that colon there?
Why not a period?

672
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,200
What, what does that mean?
And for somebody who's not

673
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,640
educated in academia, that might
be a rough read for them.

674
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,320
And, and, and even if not, I
think it's important to, to look

675
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,160
and say, I left this punctuation
here, even though it's awkward,

676
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,280
I left it there because it can
be interpreted in this way.

677
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,640
I don't personally believe it.
I don't say that in footnote.

678
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,160
I don't personally believe that.
But I'm not going to leave it

679
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,800
out because, you know, like,
like you're saying earlier, you

680
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,200
know, nobody's going to call you
a liar if you, if you expose all

681
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,000
the evidence.
But I just think it's important

682
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,720
to read things even if you
disagree with him, to see it's

683
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,360
there.
Right.

684
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,120
It's it's possible to read it
that way.

685
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,600
So if I find somebody who
believes that, I don't think,

686
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960
oh, you're just a moron, you
know, come up with that stupid

687
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600
idea, you can have your mind
open and say, oh, yeah, I

688
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,240
disagree.
But I know where you're coming

689
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,520
from.
I get it.

690
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,400
And Joseph left this mess for us
here.

691
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,200
And one of us is right and one's
wrong.

692
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,800
But we both acknowledge and
agree at least that we have a, a

693
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,640
reasonable reason for
disagreement.

694
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,840
Sure.
So, and there are a couple dozen

695
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:56,800
of those.
Sorry.

696
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,760
Yeah, there, there are very few
of those in the Book of Mormon,

697
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,600
probably a dozen in the Doctrine
of Covenants.

698
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,840
And and I don't always footnote
them because they're less

699
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,120
significant, right?
But I do note them from time to

700
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,200
time because I think they're
super, super important.

701
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,920
You know, we've got the DNC 89
comma that messes up the Word of

702
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,320
Wisdom and we've got similar,
you know, problems in in other

703
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,080
scriptures.
I don't think there are any

704
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,200
famous ones in the Book of
Mormon, but that one kind of

705
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,960
struck me as one that's very
significant, even, like I said,

706
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,280
even though I don't agree with
it.

707
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,080
Is did when, when you were
putting this together, was there

708
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,320
anything that would have been
like commentary contemporary to

709
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:45,040
the time that they were doing it
that would have given you like a

710
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,400
tip or a, a tell, so to speak,
right?

711
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,760
So, you know, do you find
anything in journals where

712
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,000
people are expounding on a
certain verse in the Book of

713
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,480
Mormon or the revelations that
would kind of tip their hand and

714
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,240
be like, OK, this is how it was
understood in this day, right?

715
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,000
And did would did that ever
factor into any of this?

716
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,960
You know, I, I would love to say
it did it.

717
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,240
It did not.
I didn't go into the the

718
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,960
journals much and do that.
I did a little bit of diving,

719
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,040
but not much.
And I am intending in, in, in.

720
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,080
And so let me kind of backtrack
a little bit.

721
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:30,000
I've had two brethren help fund
some of this research and

722
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:37,120
anything I put under the name
JSV in my publications is is

723
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,320
under that umbrella.
And ultimately they will be

724
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,560
publishing a nice gold gilded
edges leather bound or something

725
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,200
similar to that through Pioneer
Press with Kevin Crout, a

726
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,040
version of these scriptures for
the JSV.

727
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,560
Gotcha.
So the hope is that we will and

728
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,480
their finances will blossom or
something.

729
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,160
I don't know exactly what all
the hopes are, but the hope is

730
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,920
I'll later do an academic study
version of all of these, which

731
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,280
case I'll be going through all
the different commentaries I can

732
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,200
find on the Doctrine Covenants
and on the Book of Mormon and do

733
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,720
an annotated version of all of
those, which I'm already doing

734
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,440
for the DNC.
So there's a lot of crossover

735
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,800
there.
And for those who are following

736
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,320
my, my DNC annotated project, I,
and I've mentioned this is, is

737
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,960
I'm sending out notifications
and stuff, but not everybody

738
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,040
reads those 'cause maybe they're
less excited about them.

739
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:39,280
But this whole JSV version of
the DNC is the foundation of my

740
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,120
future annotated project.
So give me a big boost to move

741
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,880
forward on that.
Although I will have to make

742
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,040
some changes for, for, for some
details.

743
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:52,000
But that said, oh, shoot, I got
so many thoughts.

744
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,200
I'm sorry, just wouldn't like
circle, I'm like, oh, you're

745
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,120
good.
So, so delving into the, the,

746
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,800
the, the journals and all that
sort of stuff for some of those

747
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,080
indications.
No, I didn't do that study

748
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,840
version.
We'll see.

749
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,000
That said, the Joseph Smith
Papers project, which is

750
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,800
something that I refer to
frequently.

751
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,040
It's such a wonderful resource.
If I, I wish I could talk to

752
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,360
somebody who's in charge of the
website and, and help them

753
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,560
reorganize it.
So it's useful outside of

754
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,080
whatever mentality they've got
to for the average person to

755
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,480
find what you're looking for
easily would they can make some

756
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,240
massive changes.
It would make me really happy.

757
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,800
But anyway, I used that.
I love that.

758
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,720
And I did find some stuff about
some, some of the historical

759
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:39,160
background.
There's a couple really good

760
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,280
articles they had both of the on
the DNC Book of Mormon that

761
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,000
talked about who was doing what
and how things happened and, and

762
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,640
that sort of stuff.
And there's nothing there that

763
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,000
really kind of addresses what
you're getting at.

764
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,080
I, I, I, I, I could point out
one item of, of interest that

765
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,440
sort of addresses that and, and
maybe something you're searching

766
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,040
for or not, I'm not sure.
So I'll just tell you.

767
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:10,440
So Joseph went to, to Oliver
Cattery and said, Hey, I want

768
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,800
you to get the baptismal
ordinance, the sacrament

769
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,320
ordinance put in the duction
cabinets.

770
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,080
So I haven't looked at those
entries.

771
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,720
And that's stuff a while.
It was brought up a number of

772
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:27,440
times in in priest quorum in
Missouri a few years ago when I

773
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,200
was there.
But at at any rate, there's some

774
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,200
church history footnotes and
stuff that talk a little bit

775
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,400
about this.
But anyway, so that's, that's

776
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,160
what was done.
So part of the discussion we had

777
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,320
in Missouri was we're saying,
well, but the the DNC baptism

778
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,560
were verbiage is different than
the Book of Mormon verbiage.

779
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,200
So, you know, Joseph said, you
know, go copy it, but he he

780
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,640
didn't copy it.
But actually the original

781
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,120
manuscript shows that it was the
same originally and I can't

782
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,360
remember when, and I think it
was in the 1835 version that

783
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,080
that Oliver County changed it to
read how it reads now.

784
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080
But the original was directly
from the Book of Mormon.

785
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,240
Interesting.
So so the prayers matched in the

786
00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:17,640
DNC and the Book of Mormon at
one point.

787
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,200
Right.
Originally they did, but now

788
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,960
they don't.
So, and that's a really, really

789
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,320
interesting question because,
you know, for those I did the

790
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,480
whole book changing Ordinances,
changing Priesthood, where I

791
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,040
talk about this a little bit.
But you know, we've got some of

792
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,400
us that are very, very dogmatic.
You cannot change the ordinance.

793
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,880
Is that not changing it to, you
know, to change the the verbiage

794
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,080
like that?
And one answer is apparently

795
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,280
Oliver Cattery thought it means
the same things.

796
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,760
It's just easier to say or you
like the verbiage or something.

797
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,000
I don't know.
We have no indication Joseph

798
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,280
told him to change it to read
like that, which is also a

799
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,760
possibility, just not in the
record.

800
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,040
But at any rate, it is
different.

801
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,480
But does it make a difference?
And because we know the early

802
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,920
brethren use the sacrament
prayer as a template and did not

803
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,880
read it word for word, it's
possible they did the same thing

804
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,360
with baptismal covenant and
maybe cattery when he was

805
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,840
revising just that.
Oh, this sounds better.

806
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,080
So I'll just say it like this.
When we don't know, we've got a

807
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,600
little bit in the historical
record to, to, to guide us a a

808
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,720
tiny bit, but not tons.
And, and that said, I want to

809
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,920
make clear I haven't dug deeply
into that rabbit hole.

810
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,560
That's not something I've done
an annotated version on.

811
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,520
It's not something that
necessitated me footnoting this

812
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,560
long church history thing that
was outside of the scope of the

813
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,920
JSV that I was doing for that
section.

814
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,920
When I do an annotated version
of that section, I'll look into

815
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,120
it more deeply.
So there may, you know, there

816
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,640
may be somebody out there that
that wrote the article in 1980.

817
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,520
That's like, oh, oh, oh, me, you
know, I know exactly what

818
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,160
happened here.
So, you know, let me know.

819
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,760
I'd love to know.
I'll put it, I'll put it in my

820
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,120
annotated version, but I'm, I'm
just disclosing.

821
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,480
I haven't personally dug that
deeply into it, but it does

822
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,160
address kind of what you're
talking about that that that

823
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:13,840
does play a difference there.
You know, it the, the difference

824
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,960
from the Book of Mormon to the
Doctrine and covenants, I guess

825
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,520
never concerned me a whole
bunch.

826
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,600
And, and maybe I'm wrong and in
this in the way I got there

827
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:29,400
right and it was well, the, the
Book of Mormon is largely

828
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,360
narrative in nature, right?
It's telling a story.

829
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,000
The Doctrine and Covenants is
something that's unique

830
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,680
certainly in Christendom, maybe
in all of religion, in that it's

831
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,560
more of a how to guide, right?
You get the sense that Joseph's

832
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,160
trying to learn how to make this
whole restored church thing

833
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,200
work, right?
And so going to God and saying,

834
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:56,240
Hey, how do I do this?
And so I would expect that as

835
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:00,120
far as functionality like, OK,
how do I, how do I give a

836
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,000
blessing or how do I do the
sacrament or the, OR the baptism

837
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,240
or whatever, the Doctrine and
Covenants.

838
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:10,000
And again, this is just how my
brain worked on it.

839
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,560
I was always like, well, the
Doctrine and covenants would

840
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,840
probably be what you'd want to
go with there because it's not a

841
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,840
narrative and this is it
instruction based.

842
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,960
Does that make sense?
In my off base with it makes

843
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,960
sense.
I, I know a lot of people would

844
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,160
disagree with you and, and, and
I'm, I'm kind of in between

845
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,040
somewhere on the, on this issue.
But you know, Jesus does say

846
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,920
this is how you should do it.
Well, that's that's a good point

847
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,760
too, yes.
But the the verbiage does or

848
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,480
could be read to signify a very
large difference.

849
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,800
Jesus is speaking to the 12 in
person and says thus shall you

850
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,280
baptize having authority given
me of Christ right, right.

851
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,240
It's he just gave him authority.
So that's what you're saying.

852
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,080
Whereas for the rest of us, when
you ordained a priest, you know,

853
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,640
you you might be 10132050
generations of priesthood

854
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,800
lineage back to Christ, you
know, back to Joseph Christ or

855
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,160
something.
So being commissioned means it's

856
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,480
not directly given authority
that could.

857
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,840
So I've wondered, is that what
Oliver Catter was trying to say?

858
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,080
You know, until you've had the
Savior lay his hands on your

859
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,200
head.
You say this way, but if he does

860
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,720
has the lady's hands on your
head, or if he gives it to you

861
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,720
in person like you did to the 12
and the third Nephi, then you

862
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:36,240
say having authority given me of
Jesus Christ.

863
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,800
Interesting.
I'm not saying that's correct.

864
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,080
I'm just saying that's something
I've thought about, pondered

865
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:47,400
over and it's been like, you
know, what's the proper way?

866
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,400
Does it matter?
Are we straightening that?

867
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,640
Are we overshooting the target
or is there something here?

868
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,120
And, and so I know that that's a
big issue.

869
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,720
The other thing is in the is in
the Book of Mormon, he says

870
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,440
after this manner shall you
administer the sacrament?

871
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,880
And it tells him specifically
how to do it.

872
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,320
And some people reading that say
there should only be one person

873
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,400
administering the sacrament.
Some people reading it say

874
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,960
you're supposed to take the cup
in your hand and hold it when

875
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,240
you do the wine.
Some say, you know, you break

876
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,680
the bread before you bless it in
the Book of Mormon.

877
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,800
And since that's not how it's
done, you know, the in the in

878
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,480
the New Testament gospels, you
have him doing both ways, bless

879
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,640
them, break and break them,
bless.

880
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,480
But the Book of Mormon says this
is how you're supposed to do it.

881
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,080
He breaks, then he blesses.
So some people take that as a

882
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,640
very strong beyond narrative.
This is the instruction how to

883
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,720
do it and quit fighting about
it, right?

884
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:49,360
He says there should be no more
contentions among you about how

885
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,920
to do this.
That's also an instruction.

886
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,840
So, you know, so some people
read the Book of Mormon account

887
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,720
is more significant than the DNC
for that reason.

888
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:05,280
And at any rate, so I think it's
important to be aware of both

889
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,680
sides.
And for me, I I honestly think

890
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,880
that the intention behind it is,
is 100 times more important than

891
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:16,880
some of the details because it's
some of those instances.

892
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,200
I think, you know, he's giving
us a template and not a rigid

893
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,400
word for word.
How to do it.

894
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,000
I don't know.
That's always the case.

895
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,280
And even with that belief, every
Sunday when I do sacrament with

896
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,320
my family, I do it word for
word.

897
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,240
But so, you know, I'm a part of
that's talking theory more than

898
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:41,360
it is talking reality.
But you know, as as I've

899
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,840
explained to my kids, if it's
OK, like Brigham Young in in his

900
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,880
generation, they read the
sacrament totally different all

901
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,560
the time.
And if that's OK, that's fine.

902
00:50:54,920 --> 00:51:01,120
But if, if I, I don't want to be
the one that someday in heaven

903
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,440
some guy comes over to my house,
I do that.

904
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,000
He remembers and he does it.
He changes stuff and he causes a

905
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,120
bunch of trouble later.
He's like, well, I got the idea

906
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,920
from Drew.
I don't want that on my

907
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,000
shoulders.
So, so I'm like, I'm, I'll, I'll

908
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,680
be rigid on this.
But as I'm being rigid, I

909
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,440
understand the, the purpose
behind this.

910
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,520
And, and I, I teach that to my
kids too, because I, I don't

911
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,720
want them getting caught up in
traditions.

912
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,960
You know, we do too many things
by tradition and we don't even

913
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,480
know why.
We're just like, well, grandpa

914
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:37,920
always did.
That was not how you're supposed

915
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,640
to do it.
You know, I went to a, a Sunday

916
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,680
school recently and it was one
of the best Sunday schools I've

917
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,600
ever been to.
I really, really enjoyed it.

918
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:52,400
But when they sang after every
phrase, they added a beat and at

919
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:57,440
the end of each chorus, you
know, full, you know, the finish

920
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,200
the song, they added two beats
and then they would start the

921
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,200
song again.
Wow.

922
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,880
And and you know, that's, that's
no harm, no foul.

923
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,400
I mean, there's there's no,
there's there's nothing wrong

924
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,600
with that.
But I was starting to sing in

925
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,200
each of those holes and I'm
like, oh, oh, oh, back up, dude,

926
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,480
I'd do that.
You're going to sound really bad

927
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,840
in front of, you know, this
whole congregation is going to

928
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,920
be like, what's his problem?
He keeps belting out for no

929
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,120
reason.
And I, I give that as an example

930
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,920
because it's completely
innocuous.

931
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,520
It doesn't matter at all.
None of that's ever going to

932
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,640
affect anybody's salvation.
But we do that sort of stuff a

933
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,600
lot and, and we don't notice.
And that was my whole point.

934
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,720
They don't notice that they're
not doing that on purpose.

935
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,880
That's just some tradition that
involved because they don't have

936
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,840
a lot of musicians in their, in
their family.

937
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:53,440
And I'm presuming because I've
got a degree in music that would

938
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:58,960
have drove me crazy 30 years
ago, you know, but that it just

939
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,800
evolved because people were shy
in the family or they didn't

940
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,520
want to start singing 1st.
And so the, you know, these

941
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,200
spaces just got longer and
longer or something, I don't

942
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,200
know.
But the point is we, we

943
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,880
developed traditions without
noticing it and without really

944
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,120
understanding what we're doing.
And I, I think it's, it's

945
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,040
important to, to see those
distinctions and be careful

946
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,440
about them regularly.
So, so when I, I teach my kids,

947
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,920
I do those types of things.
I'm, I'm, I explicitly remind

948
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,760
them of things like that a lot
for that very reason.

949
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,360
But yeah, anyway, there's a long
winded answer to your question.

950
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:44,120
No, that's, that's OK.
And then so the, the format of

951
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,920
of these, 'cause I know the LDS
church did some work and, and,

952
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,920
you know, cross indexing and
those sorts of things, will that

953
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,480
have some of that in there as
well?

954
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,720
OK, so the the raw version has
no cross references.

955
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:05,480
What it does have are
annotations that I inserted and

956
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,760
and there are a few different
reasons, so I'll I'll explain

957
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,440
that and briefly then I'll say
why.

958
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,920
If I forget that, let me know.
So in the Doctrine of Covenants,

959
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,640
I footnote anything that was
later changed from the original.

960
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,880
So I say the original read like
this and it was changed.

961
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,480
And you know, this is what it
was in 1844 when Joseph died.

962
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:33,520
Presumably Joseph approved of
all the changes made in 1844.

963
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,920
Yes, it was published after he
died.

964
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,200
The vast majority of it was done
before he died and you know, not

965
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,560
much was changed after he died
as far as we could tell.

966
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,800
But the, the kind of broad
assumption that I, I made was

967
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,440
either Joseph delegatory wise
authorized people to make

968
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:59,640
changes or he, he micromanaged.
There's almost 0 evidence he

969
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:01,360
micromanaged.
It looks like he pretty much

970
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,080
gave it to the committee and
forgot about it for a couple

971
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,480
years.
You know, he talked to him about

972
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,640
it here and there.
It's hard for me to imagine the

973
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,840
Prophet doing that.
I know he's super busy and there

974
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,080
were all sorts of complications
and problems for him doing that

975
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,720
project.
So I assume it's somewhere in

976
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:18,320
the middle.
And we just don't have a

977
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,480
historical record that gives us
a good solid understanding what

978
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,240
that was.
But regardless, I look at it and

979
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,800
assume Joseph probably approved
this change.

980
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,240
It was 1840.
But if something is significant

981
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,560
and changes doctrine or changes
how you understand how to do a

982
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,160
blessing or whatever, if there's
any substantive change at all, I

983
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:44,080
footnote it so you can see the
original and what it was changed

984
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,080
to.
And some of those, and there are

985
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,320
hundreds of those.
It's, it's not, you know, I, I

986
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,520
was really surprised because
everybody says all the changes

987
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,640
are all grammatical.
They don't really matter.

988
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,520
Spelling changes and stuff, very
few real changes.

989
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,480
That's complete BS and it's not
true.

990
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,560
I have hundreds of changes.
In every one of them I consider

991
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:15,080
substantive, meaning it's
important to somebody as the

992
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,680
change I mentioned earlier with
a colon, with men, or that they

993
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,640
might have joy.
You know that that scripture,

994
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,920
that is something that is
substantive.

995
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,520
It makes a difference to
somebody.

996
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,640
Somebody's going to read that
and say, see, I told you this

997
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,840
life is all about suffering and
maybe I shouldn't pander to that

998
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,800
particular 1.
I don't know, should be ashamed

999
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,080
of myself.
But but you know what I mean?

1000
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,280
Somebody somewhere will find
meaning in there and I don't

1001
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,400
it's not my business to deny
them of that reading.

1002
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,680
That's that's personal to them
and I'm not going to be

1003
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,840
responsible for not disclosing
that.

1004
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,320
So anytime there was a change
that I thought a reasonable

1005
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,200
person could see a difference
here and change how they

1006
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,520
understand this passage, I
footnoted it.

1007
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:04,920
And some of those are, are
minor.

1008
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:07,520
You know that honest they are,
they're they're minor.

1009
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,560
Some of them are gigantic.
You know, they're really, really

1010
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,680
big.
Which which ones were gigantic?

1011
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:14,120
I'm curious right?
Like.

1012
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,600
Yeah, So DNC 42, my annotated
version, I, I talked to you

1013
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,720
about this when we, when we did
DNC 42, you know, there are

1014
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,720
entire, this whole verses added
and several times there are

1015
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,160
phrases that are very lengthy
that are added.

1016
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:36,760
And in, in those changes, most
of them are saying, OK, this was

1017
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,360
an early chapter in the doctor
of Kevin's early section.

1018
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,920
And now we've received a lot
more light knowledge and we've

1019
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,480
added the the high priest quorum
and we've changed the structure

1020
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,600
of how the high council works
and you know, all these types of

1021
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,840
things.
And so retroactively they insert

1022
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,160
those new revelations into the
old revelation.

1023
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,760
So instead of it saying go and
get 2 elders to adjudicate this,

1024
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,480
they say go get the high council
to adjudicate it or something

1025
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:06,400
like that.
I see.

1026
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,480
Those are very big differences.
Right.

1027
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,960
And, and, and, and there, there
are lots of those that, that

1028
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,360
dramatically changes what you
do, right.

1029
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,360
You and I, we're in a fight.
We disagree about something,

1030
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,280
we're pissed off about it.
We want to kick each other out

1031
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,120
of the church.
Who do we go to?

1032
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,600
We go to two elders or we go to
high council.

1033
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,800
I see.
You know, if I say 2 elders,

1034
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,520
you're like, no, scripture says
high council.

1035
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,600
Now what are we going to do, you
know, 'cause now we've got to

1036
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,320
other people have to to agree on
that too.

1037
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,440
I mean, that's that can change
everything and significantly

1038
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,200
with administrative things.
One of the more important things

1039
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,960
I think is, is when, when Joseph
asked if somebody in the First

1040
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,560
presidency is going to be tried,
does DNC one O 7 still apply?

1041
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:59,880
And in one of his unpublished
revelations, it says, no, that

1042
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:02,400
was when the church was baby.
But now that it's bigger, that

1043
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,120
doesn't make any sense to do it
at all.

1044
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,080
That's not the proper way to to
try and remember the First

1045
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,920
Presidency.
And so, you know, some of these

1046
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,960
administrative changes we could
say are insignificant, but they

1047
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,640
they dramatically impact how
people behave in a community of

1048
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,280
believers.
So I footnote every single one

1049
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,520
of those.
I italicize in the Doctrine of

1050
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,720
Covenants every word that's
changed, including if it's a

1051
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,960
single letter, if, if a plural
is changed singular, vice versa,

1052
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,200
that's footnoted, that's a
change.

1053
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,800
And you know, if it, if it could
be important, you know, if it's

1054
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,720
obviously a typo, I don't do it.
If it says Joseph and then the

1055
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,280
revision says Joseph Smith
junior and the next revision

1056
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,360
says Joseph Smith without the
junior and then it's reverted to

1057
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,840
again to say Joe Smith junior.
I don't mark any of those.

1058
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,320
Nobody cares.
It doesn't change anything.

1059
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,680
We know what he meant.
We know what was going down

1060
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,240
here.
You know, if it says Oliver

1061
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,000
changes to Oliver Cattery, I
don't footnote those things.

1062
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,960
That's not substantive change.
That's something that you and I

1063
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,360
know why they did it right.
When the Lord's speaking, he

1064
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,280
says Oliver Joseph Smith
thinking that guy sitting right

1065
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,240
there.
But when they publish it 20

1066
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,120
years later, somebody's like
who's Oliver?

1067
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,040
Is that the guy that was
excommunicated or somebody else?

1068
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,280
The other multiple Oliver's.
So no, it's Oliver Cattery.

1069
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:23,520
So there's there's no change
there.

1070
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:30,000
So I I ignore things like that,
but to to see what those changes

1071
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,920
are, it's it's readily available
in in the JSV version because I

1072
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,640
italicize all of those changes
and I footnote them and and when

1073
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,560
I do the annotated version, you
know it will have all of those

1074
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,440
same changes made and and
acknowledged to the main text

1075
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,160
itself.
Probably the only change I'll

1076
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:53,760
make for the annotated versions
is I got rid of unorthodox

1077
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:59,600
capitalization in the JSV.
But I, I do include it and will

1078
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,080
include it in my annotated
version because I think there's

1079
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,200
strong historical evidence that
at least a significant part of

1080
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,080
the time, upon the time, they
use that as emphasis and they're

1081
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:13,120
trying to draw attention to that
word and that changes the

1082
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,600
meaning sometimes.
Gotcha.

1083
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:17,240
I'll give you an example of
that.

1084
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:23,640
In Doctrine of Covenant 76, it
talks about, you know, becoming

1085
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,960
gods and so forth.
In some of those instances it's

1086
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,760
capitalized in the original and
some it's not.

1087
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,920
And that appears to be referring
to somebody who's exalted versus

1088
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,280
somebody who's maybe had the
second mountains but isn't

1089
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,880
exalted or something like that.
I don't have any specific

1090
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,200
instances at the top of my head,
but I know that there's some

1091
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,880
discrepancies that are like
that.

1092
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,720
And that's the type of thing
that could be interpreted to

1093
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,320
make a difference if it does or
not, or if it was intended or

1094
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,960
not.
But that's, that's, that's a

1095
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,360
little bit more problematic to
do in a version that you're

1096
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,000
trying to, to produce for kids
so forth.

1097
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,440
It starts making it look a
little bit more messy and more

1098
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,800
academic.
So opted not to include that for

1099
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,800
the JSV, but I do put it in my
kind of big boy version.

1100
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,000
Gotcha.
And then, you know, another and

1101
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,520
I'm sorry, I'm just peppering
you with questions here, but.

1102
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,040
Oh no, that's what I'm here for.
So in in this version going

1103
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,520
back, Joseph was editing this
stuff all the way through right

1104
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,800
as as he's doing this and and
you alluded to this, Joseph

1105
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:37,720
didn't strike me as a
micromanager.

1106
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,600
He wasn't someone who just left
things alone necessarily, but

1107
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:46,240
but he wasn't a micromanager.
And so with some of these

1108
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,160
revisions, how do you know that
it was actually Joseph Smith

1109
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,960
approved versus Joseph just
never had a chance to look at

1110
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,400
it, right?
That to me, 'cause, 'cause if,

1111
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,640
if you're going to call it to
JSV, the Joseph Smith version I

1112
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,960
assume is what it stands.
How do you know you can

1113
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,000
attribute that to Joseph Smith?
Right.

1114
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,400
OK, great question.
I I should have brought that up

1115
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,080
earlier.
Excuse me.

1116
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,880
So we, we don't know.
We honestly don't know from from

1117
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,520
phrase to phrase to section to
section.

1118
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:23,080
We don't know.
We don't have any record of all

1119
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,520
recattery sitting down with
Joseph and saying, OK, these are

1120
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,800
the changes I made to DNC 76 and
the changes I made to DNC 84.

1121
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,080
Do you approve of all of these?
No such record exists at all,

1122
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,880
period.
Further, I, as I, if I'm

1123
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,480
recalling correctly, we have
less than two sentences in

1124
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:46,040
Joseph Smith's handwriting in
the DNC of any edits or anything

1125
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,760
being made.
So there could be a strong

1126
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:54,120
argument that in fact Joseph
didn't approve anything that

1127
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,760
I've italicized and footnoted in
the JSV.

1128
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,080
And if, if that's the case, then
we need a whole new version.

1129
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:07,280
And it's it's very problematic
because everything after the

1130
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,680
original book of commandments
was edited by somebody.

1131
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,240
There were complaints against
Oliver Cowdery that he changed

1132
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,320
too much.
And and I believe he complained

1133
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:18,560
somebody else did the same
thing.

1134
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,840
And, you know, we've got this
statement from Joseph delegating

1135
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,920
to WWE, Phelps saying don't
change the sense of it.

1136
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,800
And you know, we've got at the
at the beginning it says revised

1137
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,560
and carefully selected by Joseph
Smith Junior.

1138
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,400
Did he say that?
Did he agree to that statement?

1139
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,280
Did he notice that before it was
published?

1140
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:44,920
We don't know for sure.
It's not there.

1141
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,640
So I do mention in my
introduction of the JSV

1142
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:52,280
especially more specifically
should say, and this only really

1143
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,320
matters in the doctrine of
covenants.

1144
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:01,760
We don't know for absolute
positive, but we've got at least

1145
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,000
DNC 57 commanding him to change
the the scriptures.

1146
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,960
We've got him talking WW Phelps.
We know Oliver Cowder was in

1147
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:14,840
charge of the changes and made
the most and and just with

1148
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,480
papers project.
Just a little historical

1149
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,400
background on this.
It was really interesting.

1150
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:19,800
I didn't put in the
introductions.

1151
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,240
It's kind of in the back of my
head, but where they basically

1152
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:27,800
say this whole manuscript that
was, you know, the original

1153
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,120
stuff that I poured through
doesn't appear to have any

1154
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,000
changes other than what Oliver
Carter made himself.

1155
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,160
So there's, there's no reason to
believe, if I'm recalling these

1156
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,200
details right.
Well, correctly, that Joseph

1157
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:45,200
ever saw those.
Presumably he did, but maybe he

1158
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:46,640
didn't.
We don't know if we're positive.

1159
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,040
That said, I can't imagine those
brethren taking it upon

1160
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,000
themselves to, to just wholesale
rewrite everything, not get

1161
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,440
Joseph's approval and then
publish it and then not get

1162
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,680
trouble for it.
I mean, there was an 1835

1163
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,640
version.
There was a 1837 version.

1164
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,520
Surely he saw some of those
changes and reviewed some of

1165
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,560
those changes.
And in fact, we do have, you

1166
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,840
know, things that that change
back and forth a couple times.

1167
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:19,120
So it's, it seems very likely to
me that he was involved.

1168
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:24,120
Did he read every word, every
detail or not that we, we just

1169
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,320
can't be certain.
And you know that there we there

1170
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,480
we are.
That's that's the problem.

1171
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,280
That's not true of the Book of
Mormon.

1172
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,280
And there are different types of
footnotes for changes in the

1173
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,680
Book of Mormon.
Then I put in the in the DNC and

1174
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,960
I think that would probably be
of interest to a number of the

1175
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:47,760
the podcast listeners.
So this isn't super well known.

1176
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,960
It's I believe it's mentioned
here.

1177
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,480
And, and so if I'm looking down
for those who are watching the

1178
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,200
video I'm trying to see, I
believe there's a chart in

1179
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:02,680
Skousen's 1830 Book of Mormon
that he did trying to get back

1180
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:08,760
to the very original text, which
again, as much as I appreciate

1181
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,960
what he did, I don't care about
the original text so much as

1182
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,680
what Joseph approved later.
Brigham Young said if Joseph

1183
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,120
would have translated the Book
of Mormon 50 times or 500 times,

1184
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,240
it was all different.
It wouldn't matter to him.

1185
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:26,880
All that revelation is based
upon specific experiences that

1186
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,120
the Saints needed and what they
were ready to receive.

1187
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:36,680
And so if I accept Joseph as a
prophet, I also accept it well

1188
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,640
at at the day of his death, I
should say, right?

1189
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,000
If I accept him that, then I
accept that he made these

1190
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:49,880
changes on his own accord.
Shoot, I swear he had a chart

1191
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,440
somewhere.
Maybe it's in the appendixies.

1192
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:55,840
Yeah, here it is.
OK.

1193
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,080
He calls it STEMA for the
printed editions.

1194
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,400
So for those of you looking,
this is Book of Mormon, the

1195
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:07,040
earliest text by Royal Skousen
in one of his appendices can get

1196
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:14,280
this backwards.
Here he has this graph showing

1197
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,920
the branches of the different
printings of the Book of Mormon.

1198
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,279
And looking at that graph, you
can see that at different years

1199
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:24,200
there were different
publications, and different

1200
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,040
publications use different
versions of the earlier Book of

1201
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,880
Mormon.
So if you try to go look at the

1202
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:34,279
bottom of this on the right hand
of the STEMMA, it's the LDS

1203
01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:37,439
textual tradition.
It goes all the way back to the

1204
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:42,040
1837 version.
So the church, members of the of

1205
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,880
the Church of Jesus Christ
Latter Day Saints do not have

1206
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:50,279
the thousands of changes he made
in the 1840 version in their

1207
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,439
lineage here.
Now, has somebody gone back and

1208
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,560
looked at it and traded with it
and incorporated some of those?

1209
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:00,279
Sure.
Is that a four volume book on

1210
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:03,399
what happened and how much we
how much they put in didn't put

1211
01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:05,920
in?
Has anybody looked at the 1840

1212
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,439
version and compared it to the
1981 version or whatever they

1213
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:14,439
have now, 2012 or something, and
and marked all the substantive

1214
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,359
changes that came from the 1840
that weren't there earlier?

1215
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,720
I don't know, I don't really
care.

1216
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,080
But from what I can see from
this, they're missing a lot of

1217
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,640
those changes.
And as I'm going through and

1218
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,520
doing my own personal studies, I
see stuff that looks like it's

1219
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,600
very different from time to
time.

1220
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,200
Why does it matter?
Well, the RLDS used the 1840

1221
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:40,640
version, so they have a
different textual traditional.

1222
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:45,720
Joseph made thousands of changes
to the 1840 Book of Mormon, and

1223
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,479
a lot of those were trying to
simplify the readings and get

1224
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,680
rid of Old English.
That's also what I mentioned

1225
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,720
earlier.
He got rid of 43 versions of and

1226
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,000
came to pass.
Interesting.

1227
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,720
So I have two different kinds of
footnotes in the Book of Mormon

1228
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,600
that I don't have in the duction
covens. 1 version of that is in

1229
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:08,720
1837 Joseph revised and changed
the text to read XYZ and he did.

1230
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,160
He did those personally.
He personally changed stuff.

1231
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:17,600
But in 1840, sorry, in 1837, he
used the printer's manuscript

1232
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,600
which included which was Oliver
Cowdery's copied version which

1233
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,880
included two to three errors of
page according to Royal

1234
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,240
Skousen's counting of those
mistakes he made copying.

1235
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,800
Wow, that's a lot of mistakes.
It's a.

1236
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,120
Long mistake.
It's a 500 page book, right?

1237
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:40,200
So in 1840, Joseph used the
original manuscript, not the

1238
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:44,040
printer's manuscript for at
least some of it.

1239
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:47,760
Look likely most of it, we don't
know for sure for all of it.

1240
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:52,400
So we have some changes.
And I believe I've got about 80

1241
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:57,600
footnotes where in 1837 Joseph
changed something in the 1840

1242
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,080
version doesn't have that
change.

1243
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,360
Gotcha.
So a footnote, and I add that

1244
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,520
there so you can see what he
changed that was missed in his

1245
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,280
last version.
And I also have places where in

1246
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:12,520
1837 and in 1840 he missed a
mistake that was in the

1247
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:16,920
printer's manuscript, where
literally a whole 2 lines of the

1248
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,160
original printer's manuscript
were missed and skipped.

1249
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,000
And that's a common scrivener's
error.

1250
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,240
You know, as you're reading it,
you go to the end of the line

1251
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,120
and it says Korahor.
And then you you write down, you

1252
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,520
look back up in 2 lines
underneath it says Korahor.

1253
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:34,520
You think that's where you left
off.

1254
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,320
So you start writing.
Gotcha, gotcha.

1255
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:42,080
Ungrammatical sentence usually,
but that happens all every

1256
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,880
paragraph in the Book of Mormon
so so just got ignored.

1257
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,800
But it it seems pretty likely
that that was just a mistake.

1258
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,200
So I footnote these two, you
know, and I put it in the Book

1259
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,320
of Mormon here these two things,
but in the footnote says from

1260
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,800
here to here was missing in both
of these versions.

1261
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,960
Joseph corrected appears to be a
Scribner's error.

1262
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,560
Reader can decide but so those
happen.

1263
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,440
There's there's some significant
pieces that are like that, that

1264
01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:09,120
are that are changed like that.
Excuse me.

1265
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,920
So those are, those are in there
where he missed stuff from the

1266
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,920
original manuscript or, you
know, he changed it once.

1267
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:16,760
It didn't change it in the other
spot.

1268
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,680
That doesn't happen in the
doctrine of covenants.

1269
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,320
I I go from the later version of
the doctrine of covenants.

1270
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,680
And if it was changed from an
earlier, we've got a pretty

1271
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:28,000
strong lineage of the change.
It's usually pretty obvious that

1272
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,760
it was changed on purpose.
Whereas the Book of Mormon,

1273
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,800
we've got those printers,
manuscript that's got all

1274
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,400
recovery stakes, every two to
three page, two to three a page

1275
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,560
perpetuated into the 1837
version.

1276
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,480
And some of those are pulled out
of the 1840 version by using the

1277
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:45,760
original.
But they missed some of the

1278
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,800
changes Joseph's made in 1837
that he didn't incorporate in

1279
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,960
1840.
Now, you could say Joseph

1280
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:53,680
rejected the change he earlier
made.

1281
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:55,680
I think it's more likely he
missed it.

1282
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,800
But I footnote it every single
time so the reader can look and

1283
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:03,720
say OK, here we, here we go.
So to me, and, and correct me if

1284
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,920
I'm wrong here, Drew, because
you're showing your work, so to

1285
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:09,720
speak, right?
You're showing what you found.

1286
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:16,280
This doesn't, this doesn't feel
like, and again, correct me if

1287
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:21,280
I'm wrong and, and it could just
be my misconception of what I'm

1288
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,600
hearing here, but it doesn't
sound like you're going for like

1289
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:29,040
this is authoritative.
This is how this goes.

1290
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,480
You don't have to worry about it
or question it any longer.

1291
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:38,040
This is how it's supposed to be.
It sounds to me more like this

1292
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,560
is what I found and it's up to
you to kind of parse through

1293
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,000
that.
Is that a fair assessment?

1294
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,080
Interesting.
Yeah, it's kind of in between.

1295
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:50,080
So here's here's what my
original goal was, and here's

1296
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,680
the goal of the the the team of
four of us.

1297
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,560
But with the with the GSV, what
we wanted was a Joseph Smith

1298
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,760
approved text, something that I
honestly believe if the

1299
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,840
resurrected Joseph came and
stood by my shoulder, sat down

1300
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:12,360
next to me, he would say that's
exactly what I wanted done -1

1301
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:17,080
thing that I think he would say.
And that is, but you left some

1302
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,000
mistakes in there that you knew
were mistakes.

1303
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:25,560
Why didn't you fix them?
And my answer to that is we

1304
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:30,920
wanted an addition that every
Restorationist could trust.

1305
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,880
OK.
All right, so I'm not claiming

1306
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,600
to be the prophet of everybody
and you should follow me because

1307
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,160
I said so.
And because that's not what I'm

1308
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,360
claiming.
And that's that's not how I'm

1309
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:46,240
perceived.
I don't think it's my job to

1310
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,280
correct everything and say this
is what it's supposed to read.

1311
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:58,640
That's Joseph's business.
And he left it the way he left

1312
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,480
it.
And it does have mistakes.

1313
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,600
There are grammatical mistakes
and and you know, you could

1314
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,040
point back to I always forget
his name, but the guy who you

1315
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,760
know got upset and apostatized
because he made a grammar

1316
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:12,240
mistakes.
He said this is straight from

1317
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,440
God.
How dare you, but he tells them

1318
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:16,200
to change it.
In DNC 57.

1319
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,000
There's another scripture at 70
something where the Lord says

1320
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,600
you are aware that if Joseph's
it doesn't say quite like this,

1321
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,680
but we all know that Joseph has
bad grammar and you're aware of

1322
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:28,320
it.
You find out the revelations,

1323
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:36,240
but they're still true, right?
So I've left those errors and,

1324
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,800
and, and, and honestly that
that's been painful for me.

1325
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,720
It's really, really hard.
You know, when I see something,

1326
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:47,280
I'm like, you know, this looks
to me, it should have said this,

1327
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:49,760
but I don't do that.
I'm I just, I have to really

1328
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:54,200
restrain myself because what we
wanted to be able to do is say,

1329
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,360
OK, here's the just Smith
version.

1330
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:57,840
I'm giving it to the Kingston
group.

1331
01:15:58,240 --> 01:15:59,720
I don't know a lot about the
Kingston group.

1332
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,480
I've, I've only really met a
couple people, but I'm saying

1333
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:06,840
give it to them.
They can look at it and say this

1334
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:12,320
was as approved by Joseph and
anything that in here that's

1335
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,320
questionable at all is
footnoted.

1336
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,560
It's italicized and it's noted.
So I can see what was going on

1337
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:19,840
here.
Gotcha.

1338
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,960
And I can give it to somebody
from Centennial Park, and they

1339
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,000
can disagree on a lot of details
of what Joseph approved or what

1340
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,400
he didn't prove, but they can.
It's all right there annotated

1341
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:34,360
for them so they can see.
And and and then I could go to

1342
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,720
somebody in mainstream church
and when they quote DNC 121 and

1343
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,280
they say it says let virtue
garnish your thoughts.

1344
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,680
And ceasingly, yeah, you know, I
I don't know that I have any

1345
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:45,160
problem with that.
But just so you know, that's not

1346
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,440
what Joseph wrote.
It says let's garnish your

1347
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:49,040
thoughts.
And ceasingly didn't say let's

1348
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,320
like virtue garnish, just says
garnish your thoughts.

1349
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,440
An interesting tidbit, but
that's what Joseph approved.

1350
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:01,040
Now I can I say like virtue
garnish your thoughts

1351
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,280
unceasingly is a bad principle.
Absolutely not.

1352
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,840
But that might not be what
Joseph had in mind.

1353
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:10,480
Garnish your thoughts could just
be be a, a, a pensive

1354
01:17:10,480 --> 01:17:13,480
individual, deep and solemn
thoughts can only find them out,

1355
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:15,880
he said about the things of God.
You know, he could have been

1356
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,400
trying to suggest that and you
can say, well, that's virtuous,

1357
01:17:19,440 --> 01:17:23,840
but that's not the same as
thinking about virtue or, or

1358
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:25,480
these types of things.
It's a it's an interesting

1359
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:28,240
distinction.
So this is what Joseph would

1360
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:29,920
have approved if he was here in
person.

1361
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,680
And if there are any mistakes,
there are mistakes of men type

1362
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:36,880
thing, right?
And and surely there are some

1363
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:40,440
somewhere that always happens
when you publish something,

1364
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,960
especially if you don't have a
team of 50 people on your side

1365
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:49,080
going over everything.
Excuse me, that that was our

1366
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:54,560
purpose.
Now in, in that purpose, I'm not

1367
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,360
saying this is the authoritative
tax that Joseph wanted.

1368
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:00,840
It's the one he would have
approved.

1369
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:03,400
That's, that's how I I perceive
it.

1370
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,000
And I think that's very
different because he may look

1371
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,560
and say, Oh, gosh, you know,
look at the size of the church.

1372
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:13,400
Now, if I were running that, I
would revise these five sections

1373
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:17,000
massively.
On the other hand, he might come

1374
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,680
and show up in Missouri and say,
Gosh, your group's really small.

1375
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,480
This, this section doesn't apply
cause there's not enough people

1376
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:25,480
fill all those positions.
This is how you should do it,

1377
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,080
you know.
And so you know, he may have

1378
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,120
wanted it something a little bit
different and want to take share

1379
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:33,760
more and it couldn't or
whatever.

1380
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:39,960
But as far as pure text, what we
have at the record, I believe

1381
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,800
that that what this GSV
represents is what he approved

1382
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:49,040
and with annotations of all the
changes that he made or he

1383
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:53,240
authorized to make so that you
can see all of those.

1384
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:55,920
Gotcha.
OK.

1385
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:02,360
I'm going to ask another
question here and I'm not, I'm

1386
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:06,000
not, you know, kind of by the
nature of the question, maybe a

1387
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,080
little bit.
Sorry.

1388
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,560
No, no, I I'm trying to figure
out a I'll screw it.

1389
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,680
There is no diplomacy.
We're just going to roll with

1390
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:16,800
it.
Punch me, Dave, punch me.

1391
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:18,560
Yeah, I'm, I'm not trying to
punch you.

1392
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:20,880
I'm not necessarily trying to
punch anybody.

1393
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:25,160
I'm just curious about this.
Often times the people who fund

1394
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,760
these sorts of projects have
something in mind they want to

1395
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,840
see.
Did you encounter any of that as

1396
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,480
this was happening?
OK, great question.

1397
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:39,760
And, and yeah, we, we debated
over some stuff because of that.

1398
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,400
One of the issues, for instance,
is originally they didn't want

1399
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,480
me to do punctuation, leave the
original punctuation.

1400
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:53,400
And so I did after a while and
that was so hard for me.

1401
01:19:53,840 --> 01:20:01,040
I I've now written either an
editor of a text or written 26

1402
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:05,160
books as of today.
I it's.

1403
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:09,160
It's everything I could do to
not comma erase a comma.

1404
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,560
When I'm going through attacks,
that's what I do all day, every

1405
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:15,600
day for years, right?
I mean, well, not all day every

1406
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,080
day, but you, you got.
Like a.

1407
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:19,880
Profession right now.
And I've been writing books for

1408
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,160
a long time.
I can't stop that hand from

1409
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:28,520
ticking a comma and and, and,
and, you know, and I'm OCD about

1410
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,760
that sort of stuff because I
want my work to be perfect and

1411
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:34,080
whoever will be, and there's
always going to be a mistake I'm

1412
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,360
going to make.
And I always get upset at myself

1413
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:39,480
about it, but that's my
intention is for it to be

1414
01:20:39,480 --> 01:20:42,200
perfect.
And so not checking that

1415
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:45,720
grammar, that punctuation was
really, really difficult for me.

1416
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,840
But I didn't do it.
And I didn't do it from section

1417
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:54,200
13 or 14 all the way to about 95
in the Doctrine Covenants.

1418
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,560
And in the interim, we had some
phone calls and there's they're

1419
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:02,880
kind of saying make a case Drew,
you know, and, and they just

1420
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:06,560
they, they almost in, in they
even said we almost

1421
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,200
nostalgically just want what
Joseph saw.

1422
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,800
I want to see what Joseph saw.
I'm like lithographic reprint,

1423
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,880
you know, that's what that is.
But if as soon as we're

1424
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:19,760
inserting the footnotes and all
that sort of stuff, what Joseph

1425
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,240
didn't do is not necessarily
inspired.

1426
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:27,080
I mean, I I believe the words of
the Book of Mormon are inspired

1427
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:31,520
and I do in in other DNC, but I
don't believe the grammar is I

1428
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,360
don't believe the structure is.
I don't believe the punctuation

1429
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:36,320
is.
We have no evidence of those

1430
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,800
whatsoever.
So I even built a little chart

1431
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,160
and I put at the beginning of
each of the GSV to say, what did

1432
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,400
Joseph contribute and what did
he not contribute?

1433
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,840
And who did you know where the
verses come from?

1434
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,160
Orson Pratt 1876 Where did
punctuation come?

1435
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:55,600
Drew Briny 2025 OK, so after we
talked about that, that issue

1436
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,160
and paragraphing was a similar
issue.

1437
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,000
We talked about paragraphing and
we, we all agreed to keep

1438
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,880
paragraphing as the format
because that's how they read

1439
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,000
back then.
And it does change how you

1440
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:09,600
interpret things because
sometimes the, the versification

1441
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,760
chops it up in a way that you
start thinking differently.

1442
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,560
I I've noticed that years and
years ago and, and we all agreed

1443
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:17,920
to that.
That's how Joseph did it.

1444
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,200
That's how he would've liked it.
We're going to keep it like

1445
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:24,240
that, but, and it came to pass
is not going to be our bar.

1446
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:31,920
And and again, you know this
man, I've never met Royal

1447
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,520
Skousen.
I honor him.

1448
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,200
I appreciate his scholarship and
I appreciate his heart.

1449
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:42,640
You know, Clan Skousen is one of
the amazing men of our days and

1450
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:48,440
this heart and I respect that.
He's an honest scholar and that

1451
01:22:48,440 --> 01:22:51,920
he deems this text very sacred
and treated it as such.

1452
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:55,960
And so, so we, we used his
paragraphing most of the time.

1453
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,680
And I, I alluded some changes,
but there were some other format

1454
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:00,600
reasons we did things
differently than he did.

1455
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:02,600
So we changed those around a
little bit.

1456
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,120
But but you know, that was one
of the things that was a bit of

1457
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:09,680
a debate.
Got you with that one.

1458
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:14,960
I was like, I already did it.
And so I'm like, if I'm going to

1459
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,160
have to go back to redo this, I
finished the entire Book of

1460
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,080
Mormon.
I am, I'm doing this after

1461
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:22,320
another project because I, I
just, I was frustrated, you

1462
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:27,480
know, but later as, as things
went on, I pointed out things

1463
01:23:27,480 --> 01:23:31,000
where the grammar, the
punctuation was so bad and super

1464
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,360
inconsistent that it changes
meaning sometimes.

1465
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:38,480
And that clearly is not right.
You know, it's one thing to say,

1466
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:41,800
well, the punctuation makes it
to where happiness comes after

1467
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:43,600
this life or during this life.
That's a big deal.

1468
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,360
But most people probably think
that should be this life.

1469
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,360
And you know that some minority
who could think that otherwise

1470
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:51,480
and they're stupid and you know,
whatever.

1471
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:53,000
Like a lot of people think that
way.

1472
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:59,120
But there are other places,
excuse me, that that, you know,

1473
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:02,560
suggest something more like, you
know, Lucifer should have been

1474
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:05,480
the saviour or something.
They're just obviously wrong.

1475
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,960
And so you just ignore those
types of mistakes because

1476
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,320
they're so blatantly against
everything that you read and

1477
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,520
remotely be anything but a
Scrivener error.

1478
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,800
And, and at any rate, I'm I'm
really sensitive about those

1479
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,280
kinds of decisions.
If, if I think there's a slight

1480
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:25,880
possibility it's could
reasonably reread something

1481
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:30,960
differently, I will follow the
I'll give somebody benefit of

1482
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:33,360
that, even if I totally
disagree, like I shared earlier,

1483
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,400
but there are places where it
just, it just doesn't matter.

1484
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,120
So at any rate, and and I showed
enough of those places where it

1485
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:44,200
was just messy that they said,
you know, I think you're right.

1486
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,640
We're, we're being more
nostalgic than practical here.

1487
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,520
We want a version that Joseph
would approve, but we also want

1488
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,280
people to be able to understand
and read it and not be

1489
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:56,280
sidebarred by all the mistakes.
Right.

1490
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:58,920
And same thing with spelling
that was kind of a keep the

1491
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:01,360
original spelling was something
we talked about originally too,

1492
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:04,200
but it's kind of the same thing.
You know, if you look at it,

1493
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:08,600
you're like, what word is that?
You know, and, and, and, and as

1494
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,520
I recall, there's once 1 error
in one of the versions.

1495
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:14,480
I don't remember where it's at,
but it it's one of those things

1496
01:25:14,480 --> 01:25:19,360
that says pray always let's the
adversary have power over you as

1497
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:22,200
opposed to lest he have power
over you unless he.

1498
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:23,680
Yeah, that's that's a big
difference.

1499
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:27,400
Yeah.
And so and and so I'm, I'm just

1500
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:30,560
like seeing how a typo can make
a big difference like that.

1501
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:35,040
You know, we don't want to
perpetuate errors like that.

1502
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,240
You know, that's, that's not our
goal here.

1503
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,560
I mean, yeah, we want it to be
as Joseph approved.

1504
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:45,640
But if they may may miss things
that are so blatant, obvious, do

1505
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:48,160
we really want to suggest that
that's what the gospel is

1506
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:55,080
supposed to be, right?
And and and and I footnote, you

1507
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,480
know, all sorts of things like
that, like straight and narrow

1508
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:01,120
is originally just STREIT.
Is that what he meant?

1509
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:03,560
They spelled that wrong
everywhere.

1510
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,800
Even with nothing to do with the
possibility of something being

1511
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:09,240
narrow, they still spelled it
wrong.

1512
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:12,960
So you know what?
Leave the original and make a

1513
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,040
footnote.
But you know, some things are

1514
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,440
just too obvious.
I mean, there's nobody that, you

1515
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:20,240
know, thinks it's supposed to be
the son of dog.

1516
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:25,240
It's, it's just, it's fix it.
It's going to be distracting to

1517
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:27,160
everybody reading it.
It needs fixed.

1518
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,560
So there were some things like
that.

1519
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:33,520
So ultimately, after literally
months of, of talking back and

1520
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,720
forth, they finally said, OK, go
ahead and fix all the

1521
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:40,360
punctuation.
And the problem with that is

1522
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,440
after I've done everything else
that's out of my head, you know,

1523
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:47,760
the sections kind of gone, it's
a lot longer to, to go back and

1524
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,320
change the punctuation.
If I, if I did the original

1525
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:55,560
comparing side by side of all
four to seven, sometimes

1526
01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:59,280
manuscripts of the changes that
were made and I'm marking each

1527
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:02,240
of those up when I go through
and I'm doing the commas and

1528
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:05,760
stuff after I've got all that
data in my head, it's in short

1529
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,400
term memory still.
And I'm thinking, OK, this is

1530
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,000
referring to this, this, this
clause is referring back to up

1531
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:12,960
here.
All those connections that you

1532
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,080
make when you're deep into a
text are there.

1533
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:19,400
So then if I'm putting a semi
colon in or comma or whatever,

1534
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,160
I've got all that available to
me without thinking about it,

1535
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:25,160
you know, do these two sets
connected?

1536
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:27,680
Is this clarifying this?
I already know it's just there.

1537
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,320
But if four months pass, if you
go back, you have to redo.

1538
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,920
It's it's way slower and way
more painful.

1539
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:39,000
I bet, I bet.
So, but other than that, no, I

1540
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,560
don't think there's anything
that their their only agenda was

1541
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:46,320
we want a pure version.
And when I read that or heard

1542
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:50,640
that I was like, OK, that that
to me means clean, that means

1543
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:55,240
perfect, that means error free,
you know, but with the original

1544
01:27:55,240 --> 01:28:00,760
words, you know what Joseph,
what Joseph pinned is sacred,

1545
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,120
unchangeable.
What he didn't pinned is

1546
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:05,840
pragmatic.
Gotcha.

1547
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,320
It's.
My approach on it and and

1548
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,800
anyway, we had some some slight
disagreements over some of those

1549
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,440
details, but nothing major.
All the stuff we've already

1550
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:19,480
covered.
Nobody wanted anything except

1551
01:28:19,480 --> 01:28:22,360
for what honored Joseph as much
as possible.

1552
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:26,000
And so that was that was the
that was the overriding feeling.

1553
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,120
And at the beginning of the, the
beginning of the book, all of

1554
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:36,920
them, the ones that say JSV, it
says Joseph Smith version.

1555
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:41,760
It's it's not really a logo.
It's kind of more of a bothered.

1556
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:45,040
I can't think of the word, but
it's just letters, but they're

1557
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:46,720
fancy letters.
Gotcha.

1558
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,200
Not calligraphy, but it's just a
typography or something.

1559
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:54,160
Anyway, underneath each of each
of those I I put honoring

1560
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:57,560
Joseph's revelatory words and
edits through clean and accurate

1561
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:02,800
Joseph approved text.
So that was what we and that was

1562
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:07,400
a kind of slogan that everybody
agreed with say, but that's the

1563
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:09,800
feeling that everybody on the
committee had.

1564
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:14,320
We want Joseph approved.
We want it as clean as possible

1565
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:18,120
and and we want to honor what he
did.

1566
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:23,760
And, and I, I think, you know,
that's not to say, you know,

1567
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,520
maybe or some had some inspired
changes or some inspired this or

1568
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:32,720
that when he made some changes
in the 1876 version, or that,

1569
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:35,040
you know, person, somebody in
1921 didn't make a good

1570
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,080
correction.
I might 100% agree with some of

1571
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:43,400
the grammatical corrections they
made, but the idea was we want a

1572
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:48,320
pure Joseph version that doesn't
have Drew's taint.

1573
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:51,320
It doesn't have the mainstream
church taint.

1574
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,680
It doesn't have anybody's taint.
It's just Joseph's taint.

1575
01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,720
And if there are errors leftover
there Joseph's errors.

1576
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,000
And you know, we can, we can
look at them and decide what we

1577
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,440
want about them.
But you know, that's, that's

1578
01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:08,960
what's there.
That said, you know, I did

1579
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:13,520
change spelling.
I did not change Old Testament

1580
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:18,200
or Old English in except for one
version that's separate.

1581
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:23,320
I did not get rid of that, but
occasionally, you know, it, it

1582
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,640
would set, you know, the word
were, was used.

1583
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:27,320
It should have been was or
something.

1584
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:31,440
On very rare occasions I I I
corrected things like that

1585
01:30:31,440 --> 01:30:34,320
because they they really
complicated things and there's

1586
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:36,760
no way to read it that it would
be proper.

1587
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,800
Got you.
So it wouldn't be, for instance,

1588
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,040
you know, saying, Oh well, I
missed the subject back here.

1589
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:47,160
It could have been referring to
this secondary noun instead,

1590
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:49,600
this primary noun or something
or this pronoun or whatever.

1591
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,760
There's just no way to interpret
it except for bad Hick language

1592
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:58,760
and it and those were very rare.
Those changes though, it, it's

1593
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,360
just places where it would cause
confusion.

1594
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:03,720
Maybe somebody be like, what?
I just read that wrong and go

1595
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:05,600
back and read it and I don't
understand.

1596
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:10,920
And you know, then they, maybe
they remember that the, the, the

1597
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,160
introduction says they're not
changing stuff.

1598
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:16,520
There was a.
Mistake by Joseph and maybe that

1599
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:18,120
helps them.
Probably not.

1600
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:19,440
Most people won't read that
stuff.

1601
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,320
So it it just felt like it would
actually cause more problem

1602
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,520
leaving it than taking it out.
But again, very few of those and

1603
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:29,240
they're they're just like I just
said, you know, if it says it

1604
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:32,400
were and you're supposed to say
it was, you know, they're

1605
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:34,520
they're half dozen of those
maybe.

1606
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:36,760
And that's pretty much it.
Gotcha.

1607
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,400
That said, I did do a modern
English version of the Book of

1608
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:45,920
Mormon, and that doesn't apply
at all to that, right?

1609
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:48,280
That's maybe different topic, I
don't know.

1610
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:51,480
But anyway, well.
Well, no, I mean that I think, I

1611
01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:53,280
think that would all flip fit
and flow in here.

1612
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:57,480
Is that available now as well?
Well, I hope so.

1613
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,800
It was supposed to be available.
If it's not, it will be very,

1614
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:07,360
very soon and I will at least
have a digital version on my Pay

1615
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:11,480
Hip site and we can get that on
your site as well really

1616
01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,680
quickly.
But when I submitted it to

1617
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,920
Amazon, they said this another
book has the same name.

1618
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:21,920
And so you have to say it's
within the public domain.

1619
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:25,400
I fundamentally disagree with
that on the modern English

1620
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:28,600
version because that's not in
the public domain.

1621
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,360
There was no modern English
version in 1840, and I made

1622
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:36,520
thousands of changes to make it
a modern English version, and

1623
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:38,280
nobody else has made those same
changes.

1624
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,120
And so the copyright distinctly
should be available to me for

1625
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,800
that.
Just like, you know, if I took

1626
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:48,960
the original Bible manuscript
and published it and then did a

1627
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:52,000
different translation of it, you
know, the different translation

1628
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:55,360
is copyrightable.
I didn't go to the rounds with

1629
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:59,400
the guys arguing with me about
it because they're, you know,

1630
01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:01,960
they're immediately threatening
to take down all books I've ever

1631
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:05,280
written.
And I'm just like, you know, if

1632
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,000
somebody steals it, So what?
They stole my other work, too.

1633
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:10,320
It's, you know, let, let, let
them go for it.

1634
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:14,640
I don't think there's a huge
niche market for it.

1635
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:16,400
I don't expect to make a lot of
money for it.

1636
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,400
So it is what it is.
OK.

1637
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:23,400
So let me take two things there
real quickly. 1 is the JSV

1638
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:26,440
paperback, whether it's the Book
of Mormon Doctrine of Covenants.

1639
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:28,240
So there's a couple different
versions of Doctrine of

1640
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:30,800
Covenants we haven't talked
about yet, but they, they've got

1641
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:33,840
some extra materials including
those extra revelations.

1642
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:39,400
I talked about all of those.
If it's in paperback, I pretty,

1643
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:42,680
I went to Amazon and said what's
the cheapest price I can do this

1644
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:46,960
and kept the cheapest price that
would allow me to mail it and

1645
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:50,880
not lose money.
So my profit margin on those is

1646
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,880
like pretty much zero.
It's less than $2.00 on, on all

1647
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,000
of those.
So I did that because we're

1648
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,240
going to have some fancy
versions out, some nice

1649
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:01,880
versions.
And a lot of people, you know,

1650
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:04,200
they don't blink.
And I had to spend $200 on a

1651
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,560
pair of nice scriptures, you
know, they're going to use

1652
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,000
forever.
We will have some nice versions

1653
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,000
of that.
But I'm very sensitive to the

1654
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,280
fact that I'm not the only poor
person in the world.

1655
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:17,600
And I know some people have, you
know, I've got 15 kids.

1656
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:21,080
I know lots of fundamentalists
have 20-30 kids.

1657
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,080
And not all of them are good
stewards.

1658
01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:26,280
And you don't want to buy $100
set of descriptions for them.

1659
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:28,240
That's just going to get
wrinkled and dropped in the

1660
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:31,400
toilet and, you know, put it
with a bag of rice and whatever

1661
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:33,880
happens with things kids do,
right?

1662
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,640
Right.
So I wanted the cheapest version

1663
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:39,760
I could possibly do.
And frankly, I was kind of upset

1664
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:42,640
because I don't know how Amazon
calculates their, calculates

1665
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,880
their pricing, but based on the
printing cost, they should have

1666
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,120
been cheaper still, but they
wouldn't let me do any cheaper.

1667
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:54,480
So I did that specifically for
the like I said, so poor people

1668
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:57,880
can afford them and people have
lots of kids that don't want to

1669
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,280
spend a lot of money on the set
of scripts could do that.

1670
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:03,120
The the hardback version is
different.

1671
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:10,120
There's profit margin on those.
And that's anyway lots of

1672
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:11,920
factors going on there.
I've got different people

1673
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:15,160
wanting higher prices, different
people want lower prices, all

1674
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,240
that sort of stuff going on with
with those.

1675
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:21,680
But the intention is to make
those a mid grade like the nice

1676
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:24,080
version later.
That's the mid grade version

1677
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,920
that most people can afford and
be happy for whatever the price

1678
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:34,120
is, but but not too cheap either
because some of this some some

1679
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,560
of the we need to recoup some of
our cost of production.

1680
01:35:37,480 --> 01:35:43,600
Right, I understand so.
So 2 two things.

1681
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:45,920
One, don't let me forget that
the different versions of the of

1682
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,840
the DNC of the the modern
English Book of Mormon.

1683
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:51,680
So I decided to do a modern
English version of the Book of

1684
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,840
Mormon for a few reasons.
I've it's been on my mind for

1685
01:35:54,840 --> 01:36:00,080
many years.
In my family, if you're 8 years

1686
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:02,240
old, you don't get baptized
unless you read the Book of

1687
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:05,360
Mormon.
Now I've had some kids struggle

1688
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:08,360
with their reading a little bit.
And so we let them listen to the

1689
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:10,600
Book of Mormon for some of it or
all of it, or, you know,

1690
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:15,160
whatever that sort of stuff.
But I, it's just been a family

1691
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,760
standard and I want to make sure
they're, they're actually

1692
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:22,160
familiar with scriptures and,
and not just getting baptized

1693
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:25,240
because mom dad said so I want
them to, we have a baptismal

1694
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:27,000
interview.
We sit down with them and talk

1695
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:30,400
and ask some questions and make
sure that, you know, you teach

1696
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,040
kids stuff 20 times, they forget
it.

1697
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:34,560
Right.
So we, we kind of just before

1698
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:37,000
they're baptized, we go through
and make sure you, they remember

1699
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:41,360
all this stuff, You know, what
is baptism a symbol of and who,

1700
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:43,920
who are we covenanting with?
You know, these types of things.

1701
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:48,000
And, and some of my kids haven't
quite been ready.

1702
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:50,320
They've really struggled to read
the Book of Mormon.

1703
01:36:50,480 --> 01:36:53,680
And some of them read through
fine, but most of them struggled

1704
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:56,240
at times.
And I've talked to a lot of

1705
01:36:56,240 --> 01:37:00,600
other families, especially moms,
a lot of many dads are just kind

1706
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,000
of oblivious, but moms are not
oblivious.

1707
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,360
They're like, my child really
struggles with old English.

1708
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:12,080
And so I've been wanting to do
an easy to read Book of Mormon

1709
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,360
for the kids for a couple
decades now.

1710
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:19,120
And, and there's lots of
controversy over it.

1711
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:22,200
And it's like, jeez, why is
there some so much controversy?

1712
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:25,320
You know, I'm a convert to the
church, so maybe it's easy for

1713
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:27,600
me.
I'm like, I've struggled reading

1714
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:29,280
at first.
I'm like, what the heck is thine

1715
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:35,400
self and what is smiting about
and you know, and withersoever,

1716
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:36,720
like what the heck does that
mean?

1717
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:39,880
You know, all these different
old English words.

1718
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:41,520
I was like I had to learn all of
them.

1719
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:45,560
And because I'm an academic in
my heart, it didn't take too

1720
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:47,200
long.
It wasn't super hard for me and

1721
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:50,400
I was a little bit older.
But then, you know, you meet

1722
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:53,880
people that English was a second
language and they're like, man,

1723
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:56,600
I struggle English this very
hard.

1724
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,800
Right.
What are they supposed to do?

1725
01:37:59,920 --> 01:38:04,400
You know, I mean, these types of
resources aren't available for

1726
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:09,360
them in, in other language,
which is meaning, you know, all

1727
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:11,440
the footnotes and cross
references and Joe Smith's

1728
01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:16,000
version stuff that I'm doing.
So at any rate, as I was doing,

1729
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,440
doing my spell checking and
making sure, you know, I didn't

1730
01:38:18,440 --> 01:38:20,520
put in two spaces where it
should be 1 and that sort of

1731
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:25,080
normal stuff I do for my books.
As I was doing that, I realized

1732
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:27,520
a new method that I could go
through and get rid of Old

1733
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:31,080
English a lot faster than in the
past because I, I tried this

1734
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,840
years ago.
I tried to do some find and

1735
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:35,480
replace stuff and it was a
disaster.

1736
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:38,480
So it's like I can't rely on the
computer.

1737
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:41,560
What, how do I do this quickly
and efficiently anyway?

1738
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:46,520
And I, I found a method and I
used it and my, my whole purpose

1739
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:48,320
was just to get rid of that
stumbling block of the Old

1740
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:52,080
English and, and I did.
And I also followed Joseph

1741
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:56,840
Smith's precedence as it were
getting rid of, and it came to

1742
01:38:56,840 --> 01:38:58,520
pass and all the different
derivation.

1743
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:00,920
Behold, now it came to pass.
Now behold, it came to pass.

1744
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:02,800
Now it came to pass and it came
to pass.

1745
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:08,520
Then behold, whatever, I got rid
of all of those 2300 in what?

1746
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:12,480
Some odd it took away 10 pages
of the Book of Mormon to delete

1747
01:39:12,480 --> 01:39:16,960
those, but I left three stars
with each one so that you you

1748
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:18,840
know it's deleted.
Gotcha.

1749
01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:21,920
And you know, that may not be
significant.

1750
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:28,480
The way I see that is that is an
old Hebrew, Egyptian vestige of

1751
01:39:28,480 --> 01:39:31,240
their language.
It doesn't mean much anything.

1752
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:34,680
It means then at most, then this
was what happened, then this

1753
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:37,480
happened, then this happened.
It doesn't give any meaning,

1754
01:39:37,480 --> 01:39:41,120
behold, besides that.
But they, it was so hard to

1755
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:42,760
write.
They said it was so hard to

1756
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:44,920
write that I can't imagine their
graving.

1757
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:49,640
And it came to pass.
Behold, now you know, that's a

1758
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:52,560
lot of work.
So I, I personally believe they

1759
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:57,800
had some sort of little dash or
something in Hebrew Egyptian or

1760
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,280
altered, whether they call it
reformed Egyptian, where they

1761
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:03,760
just got to do a little dash
that says then then they wrote

1762
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:08,800
it, but they translated it all
this long, you know, gnarly

1763
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:13,920
sentence, but it's written in an
old English sort of way and it

1764
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,280
doesn't mean anything.
Right.

1765
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:18,720
There are two or three places in
the Book of Mormon where you

1766
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:20,880
need it and it doesn't make
sense without it.

1767
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,760
I left those, but all the rest
of my deleted I put the stars

1768
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:26,880
star there and I know that will
offends some readers, but Oh

1769
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,200
well.
Your kids will be so much

1770
01:40:29,200 --> 01:40:33,520
happier not to read 10 pages of
it came to pass Gotcha.

1771
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:36,840
And I got any rate.
So I got rid of all the old

1772
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:40,520
English and, you know, and I
spot read places and, and double

1773
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:45,960
checked, you know, anyway, it's
a longer process than just find

1774
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,360
and replace.
You can't, that doesn't work.

1775
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:51,920
But neither does it work to do
all of it all at once because

1776
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:54,160
it, it, it gets complicated.
So you have to kind of go

1777
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:56,560
through a few times.
So I was spot checking stuff and

1778
01:40:56,560 --> 01:41:00,360
I still found messages of things
that I missed because I, I was

1779
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:02,480
reading it so much.
You're saturated in that

1780
01:41:02,480 --> 01:41:04,480
language.
You don't notice it.

1781
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,240
Delete it and get rid of it.
You're like, oh, there it is

1782
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:11,040
again.
You know, I didn't get rid of

1783
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:13,880
whoso that's, that's old
English.

1784
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:16,920
And you know, 4th is one of
those.

1785
01:41:16,920 --> 01:41:19,320
You're like, gosh, that's a
modern word too.

1786
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:23,480
But do I get rid of the 1900
version or places where it says

1787
01:41:23,480 --> 01:41:27,880
forth And you know, 'cause you,
you literally some, some of

1788
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:31,640
those words have 3 or 4 meanings
and depending on context, it

1789
01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:34,040
means something slightly
different even in 1828.

1790
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:38,440
And, and at any rate, so I
didn't want to make too many

1791
01:41:38,440 --> 01:41:40,400
judgement calls.
So sometimes I just say this is

1792
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:46,000
a word that meant this and we
still use it, but it has maybe

1793
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:49,240
some nuance differences.
So any rate, I did that for the

1794
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:52,520
kids.
I, I, I bought immediately as

1795
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:56,720
soon as it's like, well, let me
change that.

1796
01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:59,760
The instant that it is up and
available on Amazon, I will buy

1797
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:02,200
a couple versions for my younger
kids here.

1798
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:06,360
And frankly, that's all I'd ever
want to use personally because I

1799
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:09,120
hate old English.
I just so obnoxious.

1800
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:12,520
It's it's not helpful.
And in 27 years talking to these

1801
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:16,160
talking about it, I've only had
one argument that was not

1802
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:19,720
emotional based, even though
they were trying to make

1803
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:23,240
rational arguments against it.
They really goes comes down to

1804
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:28,120
nostalgia or it sounds pretty.
And that was a came from Michael

1805
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:31,360
Ness, who I talked to recently
said, you know, if somebody's

1806
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:36,440
looking for word prints to match
phrases in the Book of Mormon

1807
01:42:36,440 --> 01:42:39,800
with the Old Testament or New
Testament, that may not notice

1808
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:44,800
it if it's a, a modern English,
I'm like, absolutely, that's a

1809
01:42:44,800 --> 01:42:47,800
great point.
It's a niche, but it's a it's a

1810
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:52,040
great point, you know, but in
creating it, my purpose wasn't

1811
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:55,440
to replace book of Mormons.
It was for kids, English, second

1812
01:42:55,440 --> 01:42:57,960
language, somebody's new
struggles with old English,

1813
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:00,360
whatever it is that they would
have something they could grab

1814
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:06,400
on to read and understand and
then graduate later to the real

1815
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:10,000
JSV Book of Mormon.
And, you know, use that for

1816
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:13,240
church and that sort of stuff.
And of course, I would never

1817
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:15,360
cite it in research, that sort
of stuff.

1818
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:17,720
But I know I didn't change the
meaning ever.

1819
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:21,800
And so I trust it just as much
as the, the, the standard one.

1820
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,080
It just doesn't have all the
archaic expressions.

1821
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,120
Gotcha.
The one thing that did make me

1822
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:30,320
very angry and I, I'm maybe
exaggerating this, but it did

1823
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:33,640
make me very angry as I went
through it is as I finished and

1824
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:37,360
I was rereading, you know,
checking for it and stuff is

1825
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:40,280
there are places where I did
have punctuation based on the

1826
01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:43,120
Old English.
But when you got, once I got rid

1827
01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:45,880
of it, I was like, oh, I
actually didn't need that comma.

1828
01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:52,200
That was really annoying, but
sometimes you know, you, the,

1829
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:55,320
the language is so obtuse that
when you're looking at it's hard

1830
01:43:55,320 --> 01:44:00,320
to get grammatical constructs
and syntax or whatever and and

1831
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:03,920
see precisely where you know the
punctuation belongs.

1832
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:06,800
That I mean, you, you get used
to it.

1833
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:10,600
But anyway, I did see a couple
of places where I could see why

1834
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:12,880
with the original I had the
commas there, but with when I

1835
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,000
got rid of the Old English it
really read better without.

1836
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,480
Gotcha.
Were you at all worried?

1837
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:22,720
You know, throughout this
process, both in the, in the

1838
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:29,480
modern translation as well as as
going back to, to, to what you

1839
01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:31,960
thought was what Joseph would
want, right?

1840
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:38,040
Were you worried at all about
first, 'cause there is a certain

1841
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:41,800
beauty to the text, right as it,
as it stood, right?

1842
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:43,600
Or at least maybe I found beauty
in it.

1843
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:47,760
Or were you worried about
messing up like any of the

1844
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,720
chiasmus that was found there?
Does that ever happen?

1845
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:54,360
Right.
Some of the things did that did

1846
01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:57,760
that ever was that something
that you viewed as you were

1847
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:01,120
doing your your I don't want to
say revisions because that's not

1848
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:05,320
the right word, but maybe you're
you're corrections.

1849
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:10,120
So in the, the standard JSV, the
answer is absolutely not because

1850
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:12,400
I only did changes that Joseph
made.

1851
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,920
I didn't, I didn't make any
effort to do any of that stuff

1852
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:17,600
on my own.
And, and I personally did think

1853
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:20,640
about the chiasms.
I've got my personal Book of

1854
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:22,840
Mormon.
I went through a couple

1855
01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:25,040
different books on chiasms and I
marked all of them.

1856
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:28,840
And some of them I, I believe
and, and think they're totally

1857
01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:31,400
bogus, but you know, I've got
all of them marked in mine and

1858
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:33,800
I, I appreciate them.
So I I thought about that

1859
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:41,600
specifically, and I think it's
very unlikely that a modern

1860
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:43,280
English would get rid of those
at all.

1861
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:46,920
OK.
For example, if I say DI change

1862
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:50,040
it to say U, if it says thou,
I'll change it to say U.

1863
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:53,200
And by the way, I italicized
when it was singular the the the

1864
01:45:53,280 --> 01:45:55,960
the word U.
So you could see, much like King

1865
01:45:55,960 --> 01:45:59,960
James Version did that in a
couple instances they where they

1866
01:45:59,960 --> 01:46:01,320
translated different words to
me.

1867
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:04,680
God, they italicize some so that
you can see this is Yahweh

1868
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:06,400
versus Elohim and that sort of
stuff.

1869
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:10,960
So anyway, I did that so that
those are preserved.

1870
01:46:11,480 --> 01:46:14,080
So you can see what was singular
and what was plural in, in the

1871
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:19,200
original, which sometimes was an
error and unarguably an error

1872
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:22,400
because it, the next sentence
contradicts it otherwise.

1873
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:26,920
But I, I always use the same
word.

1874
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:30,520
So I, I can't see that happening
that I got, I, I would lose a

1875
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:33,520
chiasm.
There was one word, I'm trying

1876
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:41,880
to remember what it was, but
that did get translated two

1877
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,840
different ways in modern English
depending on where is placed.

1878
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:50,280
I don't remember if it was when
it was became subject to object

1879
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:52,840
or object subject or something
like that, but it did change.

1880
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:54,560
So there's a slight possibility
there.

1881
01:46:54,560 --> 01:47:00,280
But I, I, I think those common
words are useless in cosmic

1882
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:03,520
studies.
I and I'll give you just an

1883
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:04,840
example.
There's a book I read.

1884
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:08,200
It was a honk and thick book.
I mean, we're talking 2 inches

1885
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:10,960
back.
And it was all the chiasms in

1886
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:12,920
the Book of Mormon.
This guy got really excited

1887
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,640
about him and he'd found like
500.

1888
01:47:16,280 --> 01:47:19,120
And those are the ones that I
marked by color in my Book of

1889
01:47:19,120 --> 01:47:21,600
Mormon so that I can see all the
different word choices and

1890
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:22,680
stuff, you know, where they're
at.

1891
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:27,720
And by the way, for any of the
listeners, the entire book of

1892
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:32,920
almost 36 is chiasmus.
And it's so amazing if you get

1893
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:35,160
that diagrammed out of very,
very interesting stuff.

1894
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:39,400
But at any rate, what I
discovered was if it's a common

1895
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:47,040
word like God or Jesus or
something like that, those don't

1896
01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:50,160
work very well when you're
trying to find a chiasm because

1897
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:53,440
that's used a lot.
And what I found with this guy,

1898
01:47:53,440 --> 01:47:58,240
this that's got this book that's
two inches thick of chiasms, is

1899
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:01,040
he was using a lot of those
really common words to find

1900
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:03,880
chiasms.
And frankly, I think he was

1901
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:06,880
finding repetitious words and
not chiasms.

1902
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:10,440
And so I don't think in
transferring to the modern

1903
01:48:10,440 --> 01:48:14,080
English that any of those would
be lost because the, the unique

1904
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:17,880
words are not changed.
Like, for instance, I didn't get

1905
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:21,520
rid of the word smite.
I, I, I, I looked through

1906
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:23,720
several definitions and I
couldn't find one that I could

1907
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:28,160
replace it with that didn't
require a phrase heavy blow to

1908
01:48:28,160 --> 01:48:32,200
the body or, you know, and so I
just left it there and I

1909
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:36,000
footnoted what it meant.
And it, it, that shows up like

1910
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:37,720
80 sometimes in the Book of
Mormon.

1911
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,600
And I footnoted it for about 10
times and said, by now you

1912
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:42,600
should have this word learned.
So I couldn't do it anymore.

1913
01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:46,640
But it's kind of one of those
things to help kids that become

1914
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:50,560
familiar with a an unusual word.
But those are the words that are

1915
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:53,400
more likely to show up in a
chiasm.

1916
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:55,480
And I got rid of nothing like
that.

1917
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:59,240
Most of the Old English really
is just the ending ETH or EST

1918
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:03,000
and thee, thou thine and ye, you
know, and thine self and that

1919
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:04,920
sort of stuff.
And when you change them in

1920
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:06,760
English, they're changed the
same.

1921
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,560
So you don't lose that.
So attendeth becomes attends and

1922
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,800
forsaketh becomes forsakes.
And so those are still going to

1923
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,440
show up in the chiasm.
If that's a word that's in a

1924
01:49:16,440 --> 01:49:20,400
chiasm.
Yeah, that's it.

1925
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:24,560
And, and again, I want to
emphasize, I didn't do the

1926
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,520
modern English version to
replace the Book of Mormon.

1927
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:32,920
I did it for people who struggle
with the Old English and and for

1928
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:35,480
people like me.
I'm familiar with the Old

1929
01:49:35,480 --> 01:49:36,480
English.
I can read it.

1930
01:49:36,480 --> 01:49:38,960
But if I'm tired and I'm reading
my scriptures, I just want to be

1931
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:41,400
able to have a relaxing read,
you know?

1932
01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:43,920
Right.
Might, might have a deep

1933
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:45,040
thought.
I might not.

1934
01:49:45,200 --> 01:49:48,640
And but that's not the point,
you know, I, I, I just want to

1935
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:51,440
get lost in it.
And that was in fact, that was

1936
01:49:51,440 --> 01:49:53,560
one of the things you mentioned
earlier that was there anything

1937
01:49:53,560 --> 01:49:57,200
that we talked about that was
something we all agreed in is we

1938
01:49:57,200 --> 01:49:59,080
want to make sure that even
though there's quite a few

1939
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:03,280
footnotes in some of these
texts, we want it formatted in

1940
01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:07,560
such a way that the reader can
stay engaged in the scriptures

1941
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:12,280
and ignore the footnotes if they
want to and not get sidetracked

1942
01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:13,960
with all that stuff.
But just to be able to have a

1943
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:17,320
genuine, I'm just having
scripture study and reading on

1944
01:50:17,320 --> 01:50:19,720
my own and asking for
revelation.

1945
01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:23,080
And this is what I'm using.
But you can also use it for

1946
01:50:23,080 --> 01:50:26,560
cross referencing or talking,
you know, looking up something

1947
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:30,040
that somebody is isn't a genuine
academic article.

1948
01:50:30,440 --> 01:50:33,320
That won't be true with the
study version there.

1949
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:35,040
There will be a lots of
footnotes.

1950
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:38,840
You know, I'm kind of known for
being obsessive with footnotes,

1951
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:41,880
but you know, you can have 1000
thoughts and you can't put it

1952
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:43,680
all on text, so you footnote
everything.

1953
01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:46,280
Right you.
Put it all all there.

1954
01:50:47,440 --> 01:50:49,320
OK?
Absolutely.

1955
01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:50,880
Did she have a question?
Yeah.

1956
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:56,320
So going back to the DNCI want,
I want to spend some time here

1957
01:50:56,320 --> 01:51:00,040
on this a little bit.
I got 2 questions.

1958
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:07,480
First off we talk about being
Joseph Smith approved.

1959
01:51:08,040 --> 01:51:12,160
So will like section 138 be in
there?

1960
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:16,840
Will the section where Brigham
Young lines out how Zion's camp

1961
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:18,080
is going to March?
Is that good?

1962
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:19,440
Yes, OK, thank.
You.

1963
01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:23,560
Because because even though
those weren't penned by Joseph

1964
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:27,400
Smith, are those things that you
could look at and say Joseph

1965
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:30,600
would be down with this, right?
But yeah, So what?

1966
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:33,040
What'd you do there?
135 two that talks about the

1967
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:34,400
martyrdom he obviously didn't
write.

1968
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:36,800
That right, right.
And so there's a few sections in

1969
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:41,200
there that we know he wouldn't
have the opportunity on earth to

1970
01:51:41,480 --> 01:51:43,760
approve.
But what what'd you do with

1971
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:45,440
those?
Thank you.

1972
01:51:45,480 --> 01:51:47,880
I, I totally forgot about that.
That's an important question.

1973
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:53,040
So they are there and this was
actually something that we

1974
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:56,560
debated about quite a bit
because a lot of Mormon

1975
01:51:56,560 --> 01:52:00,120
fundamentalists don't accept DNC
138 description.

1976
01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:05,880
And so we we looked at this and
said, well, do we?

1977
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:10,000
Do we take it out and, you know,
do our our own version like, you

1978
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:14,720
know, Denver Snuffer did, you
know, but that starts making

1979
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:19,160
judgement calls and so forth,
unless we only exclude non

1980
01:52:19,160 --> 01:52:21,480
Joseph revelations and just do
it that way.

1981
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:27,720
So we thought about that.
But at the end of the day, the,

1982
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:29,720
the kind of the the vote came
out.

1983
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:32,640
There's I think there's three or
five sections or something that

1984
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:36,160
are like that at the at the very
end where basically we just said

1985
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:40,080
the vast majority of
restorationists have these

1986
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:42,360
scriptures.
We don't want to renumber things

1987
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:48,080
and cause confusion, you know,
so we've, it's not like it's

1988
01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:50,480
like, OK, it ends with Joseph.
And then there's Brigham and the

1989
01:52:50,480 --> 01:52:52,480
others.
It it's not like that.

1990
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:54,800
It's chopped up a bit.
So we'd have to restructure

1991
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:57,720
those numberings.
So then I might say, oh, I'm

1992
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:01,080
reading the Joe Smith version
and DNC 135 says this and you're

1993
01:53:01,080 --> 01:53:03,320
like, wait a second, that's not
my DNC 1:35.

1994
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:09,360
That's going to create confusion
when people are researching and

1995
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:12,760
you know, like, for instance,
again, I'm reading this book and

1996
01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:14,960
it quotes DNC 137.
I go to mine.

1997
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:18,000
It's not there.
I know what's going on.

1998
01:53:18,080 --> 01:53:20,240
A lot of people are gonna not
know what's going on, but

1999
01:53:20,240 --> 01:53:23,320
somebody else might say why, Why
is that not the same?

2000
01:53:23,680 --> 01:53:26,480
You know, and that's 'cause
confusion.

2001
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:31,920
So because of that, we opted to
keep them and, and, and, and

2002
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:35,160
part of the goal with the study
version and also with the non,

2003
01:53:35,960 --> 01:53:38,760
non canonical revelations that
are included there.

2004
01:53:39,880 --> 01:53:44,840
Because of all that, part of the
goal also is to be able to say

2005
01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:48,720
here restorationists, you can
see what everybody else is

2006
01:53:48,720 --> 01:53:52,840
believing too, and what they're
they're reading and and have an

2007
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:54,320
understanding where they're
coming from.

2008
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:56,600
And.
You personally don't agree with

2009
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:59,760
DNC 138, you think it's Song of
Solomon type thing and just

2010
01:54:00,520 --> 01:54:03,960
cross it out and call it good.
But now when somebody sites it,

2011
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:07,680
you know you got access to it as
well.

2012
01:54:08,760 --> 01:54:13,160
So let me jump from there to the
the non canonical stuff.

2013
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:17,560
One of the things that I was
personally passionate about

2014
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:21,160
years ago is, is and I, I don't
know what number I had.

2015
01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:25,160
I had like 30 revelations Joe
Smith that weren't published.

2016
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:29,000
And I was like, why is why is
the DNC not been amended to

2017
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:32,480
include these?
You can find answers.

2018
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:35,720
You know, you know that some of
the stuff he said don't publish

2019
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:37,480
that right away.
Saints aren't ready for it.

2020
01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:42,520
Or maybe that's implied, but you
know, he says, you know, include

2021
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:44,560
this, but we'll put this in the
future version, but not this

2022
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:45,960
version.
Or, you know, there's there's

2023
01:54:45,960 --> 01:54:49,040
some vestiges of of thought that
way.

2024
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,560
And I think there's a quote from
George Buchanan.

2025
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:54,840
I think he's the person that
said it, that basically said

2026
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:56,720
some of the stuff wasn't
published because the Saints

2027
01:54:56,720 --> 01:54:59,920
weren't ready for it.
And so that's why they weren't

2028
01:54:59,920 --> 01:55:01,680
canonized.
But that doesn't mean they're

2029
01:55:01,680 --> 01:55:06,160
not true type thing.
So I've wanted to have that in

2030
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:10,720
my DNC for a long time because I
don't care if it was canonized

2031
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:12,040
or not.
If Joseph received it as a

2032
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:17,080
revelation and he was a prophet,
it's true and it does.

2033
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:19,080
I don't care if anybody voted on
it or not.

2034
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:20,760
George Buchanan talks about that
too.

2035
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:24,160
He says the voting process to
see if something is Canon is

2036
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:25,880
just to see if the Saints will
be obedient.

2037
01:55:26,440 --> 01:55:30,560
Joseph had no belief that his
he, he, whether or not his

2038
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:33,400
revelations were true, was
dependent on a council of people

2039
01:55:33,400 --> 01:55:37,040
voting on it.
That's totally contrary to his

2040
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:38,360
prophetic role.
He knew better.

2041
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:43,440
But the vote was to put the
Saints in in a position of

2042
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:45,240
accountability before God.
That they said, yeah, I

2043
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:46,240
sustained that.
I agreed.

2044
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:49,720
That's that scripture.
And if they don't, they're under

2045
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:51,480
condemnation.
If they do, then they're

2046
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:55,240
expected to do it.
So to me, I don't care if it's

2047
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:58,600
canonized or not as far as the
truth of it goes, but I want

2048
01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:04,400
everything that he revealed.
So any rate, I've been compiling

2049
01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:07,240
that and preparing that for many
years.

2050
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:12,320
And I just finished with the DNC
and in doing the tedious 2

2051
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:15,640
months of punctuation stuff that
I was talking about earlier.

2052
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:19,040
And if anybody reads the entire
book of Doctrine of Covenants in

2053
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:21,120
so many hours and says how'd it
take that much longer to

2054
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:22,840
punctuate?
Remember I was trying to

2055
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:24,640
understand, does this clarify
this or not?

2056
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:28,440
That really takes a lot of time
and and.

2057
01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:32,080
Sometimes, us laymen, we don't
need to know how the sausage is

2058
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:34,720
made, right?
Look, I enjoy a good.

2059
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:38,560
I enjoy a good brat.
I don't need to know where it's

2060
01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:41,880
coming from necessarily, right?
Just serve me the brat with some

2061
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:43,200
sauerkraut.
I'm good.

2062
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:46,240
It's true.
I think a lot of people are like

2063
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:48,520
that, but a lot of people too
are like, well, Joseph wrote it

2064
01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:51,440
in sacred.
And so it's, it's important to

2065
01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:57,000
understand what he did and
didn't do and how somebody

2066
01:56:57,000 --> 01:57:01,280
approached fixing that.
You know, and I, I, I do tend to

2067
01:57:01,280 --> 01:57:03,120
be pretty sensitive about that
at any rate.

2068
01:57:03,800 --> 01:57:07,480
So I spent decades getting all
this stuff ready and I'm finally

2069
01:57:07,480 --> 01:57:10,000
ready to publish it.
And I'm like, yes, because OK,

2070
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:14,040
so I'm publishing the DNC
Lectures on Faith is included

2071
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:17,480
publishing lectures on faith
with DNC 1 to 138.

2072
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:20,160
It's published, it's done.
Now I'm going to do the version

2073
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:22,160
that adds the non canonized
version.

2074
01:57:22,160 --> 01:57:24,880
And what happens that dude?
Comes out with.

2075
01:57:25,320 --> 01:57:29,240
It all over Facebook and I'm
like I don't know who these guys

2076
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:33,240
are but I don't want to punch
him in the face not really but

2077
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:35,120
you know what I mean I.
Know I know what you mean.

2078
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:37,760
What?
No, I've been preparing this for

2079
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:39,840
months.
Not like they did something, you

2080
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:42,720
know?
And as it turned out, it's a

2081
01:57:42,720 --> 01:57:46,080
very different product than what
I was trying to produce.

2082
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:48,040
So it's all awesome and I'm
super glad.

2083
01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:49,760
I'm super glad they did it
anyways.

2084
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:52,480
I, they'll hit an audience.
I don't, I don't hit it.

2085
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:56,320
So it, it, I'm being facetious
and teasing in all those ways,

2086
01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:58,600
but it's still kind of a big
slap in the face.

2087
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,160
You're like, you know, but
that's it.

2088
01:58:01,720 --> 01:58:04,040
They include, I could get these
numbers a little bit off.

2089
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:05,400
They're going to be pretty darn
close.

2090
01:58:06,200 --> 01:58:09,560
They include I think 38 major
revelations of Joseph Smith and

2091
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:13,960
then 4 honorable mentions slash.
This might be a revelation of

2092
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,880
Joseph.
So they get 42 total, I think is

2093
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:23,520
what they ended up with.
I found 65 and then I found 22

2094
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:27,640
more that were hearsay accounts.
I included all of them.

2095
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:34,280
So that's 87 as opposed to 42.
Now, they did the typical

2096
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:36,360
standard mainstream Mormon
thing.

2097
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:38,640
These are the ones in the Joseph
Smith papers.

2098
01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:42,520
These are the ones that we see
in his own handwriting or that

2099
01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:45,320
somebody received.
And we we've got the record of

2100
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:48,040
him giving it to him.
And that's all well and good.

2101
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:49,560
That's great.
That's super important stuff.

2102
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:53,400
But it doesn't include somebody
who says, I was there when

2103
01:58:53,400 --> 01:58:57,080
Joseph gave this revelation.
And this is basically what it

2104
01:58:57,080 --> 01:59:02,600
said, you know, and, and those
those hearsay revelations, those

2105
01:59:02,600 --> 01:59:06,560
22 extras that I had, we don't
have the original revelation

2106
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:09,760
written.
We have somebody saying Joseph

2107
01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:12,280
received this revelation.
I was there when he did it.

2108
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:19,360
So those are not as reliable.
But I think there's a

2109
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:23,520
fundamental problem religiously
Speaking of not including it for

2110
01:59:23,520 --> 01:59:26,600
people to look at.
So let me just give you an

2111
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:31,040
example.
Well of course the only one I

2112
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:33,560
can think of is controversial.
Give me a non controversial Drew

2113
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:37,440
figured out.
Dude, you forget where you are.

2114
01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:39,560
Do the controversial 1.
Right, right, right.

2115
01:59:39,560 --> 01:59:50,360
OK, OK, Zebedee Coltrane says.
I was having an argument with, I

2116
01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:52,320
think it was JP Green.
I don't remember.

2117
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:56,720
I tend to not care about this
topic of discussion all that

2118
01:59:56,720 --> 01:59:58,880
much anyway.
He's arguing with this other

2119
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:02,120
elder and they're arguing about
whether or not there's a ban on

2120
02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:03,520
the priesthood against the
blacks or not.

2121
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:08,200
So I'm, I'm pretty positive in
Zebedee culture because he's

2122
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:09,960
controversial for this very
topic.

2123
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:14,400
But he said we came to to
Brother Joseph Intruder's word.

2124
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,200
This other elder brought up the
subject and said Zebedee says

2125
02:00:18,200 --> 02:00:20,720
this and I say this and they're
entitled to the priesthood and

2126
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:23,840
Zebedee says they're not.
And who's right and who's wrong?

2127
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:27,240
And Zebedee culture reports.
Joseph bowed his head.

2128
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:29,400
Like he, he did that all the
time.

2129
02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:32,360
He just kind of bow his head to
receive revelation and he'd look

2130
02:00:32,360 --> 02:00:36,680
up and give the revelation and
he said he bowed his head and he

2131
02:00:36,680 --> 02:00:38,360
looked up and said, Brother
Coltrane is right.

2132
02:00:38,360 --> 02:00:41,080
They have no entitlement to the
priesthood.

2133
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:44,720
OK.
So lots of reasons that's

2134
02:00:44,720 --> 02:00:47,680
controversial.
I don't want to get in any of

2135
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:51,080
them, frankly.
And, and I've got one friend

2136
02:00:51,080 --> 02:00:53,720
who'd probably be mad at me just
for including it in the book.

2137
02:00:55,040 --> 02:00:57,280
But nonetheless, we have
somebody reporting.

2138
02:00:57,280 --> 02:00:59,680
Joseph received this revelation.
This is what he said.

2139
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:06,560
So now let's assume, and just
for the point of argument for

2140
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:09,360
all the listeners here, let's
assume that's true.

2141
02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:15,160
OK, It's hearsay.
So I reject it because we don't

2142
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:19,040
have the original writing.
Now, if that's truth and I just

2143
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:20,920
rejected it, what do we know
about that?

2144
02:01:21,960 --> 02:01:24,600
Well, I'm a 12 tells me that
that means adversary can take

2145
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:26,400
more truth than light knowledge
away from me.

2146
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:28,600
And I'm damned for not believing
the truth.

2147
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:34,280
That's a bad thing.
Now, let's assume it's false.

2148
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:37,640
OK, so Zebedee Coltrane made it
up.

2149
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:42,680
He's just a lying stinker, and
he's a bad guy, and he made it

2150
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:44,360
up because he's racist.
Right?

2151
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:51,600
Now, if I reject it because it's
hearsay, that's good.

2152
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:58,640
But in and if I reject it
because it's not true, that's at

2153
02:01:58,640 --> 02:02:01,840
least better because I'm
exercising the sermon, I'm

2154
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:03,000
praying about it and finding
out.

2155
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:08,840
But I at least think people
deserve to know that Somebody

2156
02:02:08,840 --> 02:02:11,840
said Joseph said this was a
revelation.

2157
02:02:13,000 --> 02:02:16,480
Now at least I can educatedly
look at it, read it and say,

2158
02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:20,200
Father, is this true?
And if it's not, then I can

2159
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:23,880
cross it out in my version.
And if it is, I can know now

2160
02:02:23,880 --> 02:02:26,360
have something that I didn't
have before, like knowledge I

2161
02:02:26,360 --> 02:02:30,080
didn't have before.
I think it's just as damning to

2162
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:37,480
reject truth for whatever reason
as it is to accept false things.

2163
02:02:38,600 --> 02:02:41,200
They both have eternal
consequences if we're talking

2164
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:44,120
about moral things and, you
know, gossip.

2165
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:48,800
And so I include all of them and
and and I've got a separate

2166
02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:51,200
section.
OK, that's that's where I was

2167
02:02:51,200 --> 02:02:52,360
going.
I with those.

2168
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:54,120
Oh, go ahead.
Sorry, I don't know.

2169
02:02:55,320 --> 02:02:58,120
We, we, we debated a little bit
about this, had some had some

2170
02:02:58,120 --> 02:03:01,400
discussion, but basically what
I've done is I've said Joseph

2171
02:03:01,400 --> 02:03:07,600
Smith #1, Joseph Smith #2,
Joseph Smith #3 and ironically

2172
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:09,880
the number one is 1.
That's debated if Joseph or

2173
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:12,600
Oliver Cattery received the
original revelation, but I

2174
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:17,560
footnote that so but if we have
a revelation that's written and

2175
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:20,960
we believe it's Joseph's, it
just says just Smith 1 to 65.

2176
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:25,200
And so they're there.
We've got some source church

2177
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:28,680
history or you know, it's
quoted.

2178
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:34,040
Oh, it's a church history or
it's somewhere where we have

2179
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:40,920
sorry, I was just actually
getting a text from one of the

2180
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:45,640
guys that is is me and I
thought, oh, shoot, he said

2181
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:48,960
Drew, shut up, man.
But actually it's totally

2182
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:56,200
different topic.
Any rate point is so oh, sorry.

2183
02:03:56,600 --> 02:04:00,240
No, you're good.
So it's one through 65 and those

2184
02:04:00,240 --> 02:04:06,440
are the ones that we're pretty
darn sure that he received and

2185
02:04:06,440 --> 02:04:09,960
wrote and, and you know, we have
the, the revelation and so

2186
02:04:09,960 --> 02:04:12,240
forth.
I say that a little bit tongue

2187
02:04:12,240 --> 02:04:18,200
in cheek because I've got looser
standards that way than Smoot

2188
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:22,280
and Pasantino and I, I respect
what they're doing and why and

2189
02:04:22,280 --> 02:04:24,600
all that sort of stuff.
But I also think if there's a

2190
02:04:24,600 --> 02:04:27,400
little bit of doubt, fine, Just
tell the readers we're not

2191
02:04:27,400 --> 02:04:30,640
totally positive.
You know, somebody said Joseph

2192
02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:34,760
revealed this to them and they
wrote it down, but they could be

2193
02:04:34,760 --> 02:04:37,640
lying or we don't know for sure,
but it we've got the written

2194
02:04:37,640 --> 02:04:39,200
revelation and this is what they
said.

2195
02:04:40,040 --> 02:04:44,160
So those things one or number
Joseph Smith, one is 65.

2196
02:04:44,560 --> 02:04:48,240
I've got another 100 revelations
of Brigham Young, John Taylor,

2197
02:04:48,240 --> 02:04:52,320
Wolfram Woodruff, so on.
Those will be in future volumes

2198
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,880
that we'll be doing.
That won't be Joseph Smith

2199
02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:58,960
version, but it will be, you
know, I don't know, Restoration

2200
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:02,120
version or something.
But anyway, those are all

2201
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:04,680
separated somewhere else.
But then if we have something

2202
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:07,800
like I mentioned earlier where
somebody says, I asked Joseph

2203
02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:10,960
about this, he said he received
a revelation of this is what it

2204
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:13,680
was.
That's, you know, that's in the,

2205
02:05:13,960 --> 02:05:17,720
the hearsay section.
And those are numbered, but

2206
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:20,240
they, they don't have a big
title.

2207
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:23,160
It says Joseph Smith number one.
It's just like on the page

2208
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:25,720
123-4567, you know, 22.
I see.

2209
02:05:26,760 --> 02:05:28,200
So you did break it down that
would.

2210
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:30,960
Yeah.
No matter look, no matter what

2211
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:36,080
the topic was right because we
do have, and This is why Mormon

2212
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:37,880
history, it can be so messy,
right?

2213
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:41,320
Because Joseph didn't just speak
to groups at large.

2214
02:05:41,320 --> 02:05:47,000
He spoke to individuals as well
in prophetic terms, right on, on

2215
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:50,640
prophetic terms.
And so it, it's always hard to

2216
02:05:50,640 --> 02:05:55,760
sort that stuff out, right,
because you don't have multiple

2217
02:05:55,760 --> 02:05:58,120
guys saying, I heard him say
this, right?

2218
02:05:58,680 --> 02:06:02,320
It's one dude.
No matter what the topic is.

2219
02:06:02,320 --> 02:06:05,040
There's been stuff I've
encountered that I really want

2220
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:09,040
to hang my hat on that I just
really can't, right?

2221
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:14,000
Because it's one dude, one time,
it never comes up again.

2222
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:16,120
And then I'm like, well, I don't
know what to do with this,

2223
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:18,160
right?
I really want to believe it, but

2224
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:21,480
I can't, I can't put 100%
confidence in there.

2225
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:25,760
So breaking it out into, into
different sections, right?

2226
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:29,200
Like you were saying, like the
hearsay section or however you

2227
02:06:29,200 --> 02:06:33,280
put it, I think it's absolutely
worthwhile.

2228
02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:36,200
I think that's a good thing.
As much as we can have on him, I

2229
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:40,240
think is good, even when it may
be conflicts with our our view.

2230
02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:44,760
And then you leave it up to the
reader to sort through that.

2231
02:06:45,040 --> 02:06:47,440
And.
And and allow them to come to

2232
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:52,520
their own conclusions.
So let me ask you this, with

2233
02:06:53,240 --> 02:06:58,040
with the DNC, the the JSV
version, are you going to

2234
02:06:58,040 --> 02:07:01,680
include like the four
unpublished revelations that

2235
02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:04,040
maybe weren't received by
Joseph, right?

2236
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,680
Right, so good.
That's that's back to where I

2237
02:07:07,680 --> 02:07:09,560
was saying earlier, make sure I
cover the different sections.

2238
02:07:09,560 --> 02:07:14,240
So I've got one version that's
just DNC, which means lectures

2239
02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:16,720
on faith plus one to 138.
That's it.

2240
02:07:16,720 --> 02:07:20,840
That's all that's what it is.
I've got another version that's

2241
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:26,160
lectures on faith, DNC 1 to 38
and 87 on published revelations.

2242
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:29,240
Joseph, all those are Joseph
Smith version.

2243
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:33,080
And you know, we discussed
about, you know, 134 or whatever

2244
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:37,720
it is through 138 to have some
non Joseph text in there.

2245
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:42,320
But other than that,
everything's Joseph, everything.

2246
02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:47,440
And you know, when we produce
the the triple, which I'm

2247
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:49,240
hoping, how about in a couple
months?

2248
02:07:49,240 --> 02:07:51,160
I'm not you're going to do the
same thing that we just did with

2249
02:07:51,160 --> 02:07:54,920
this with the Pearl grape price.
When when the triple's done,

2250
02:07:55,480 --> 02:07:59,400
that will that will be a JSV.
It will not include the four

2251
02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:02,640
hidden revelations and the 100
revelations of the other

2252
02:08:02,640 --> 02:08:08,720
brethren that are non canonized.
That will be a, a different

2253
02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:11,800
version, probably a study
version that I'll, we, we keep

2254
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:14,280
saying next year.
But I, I don't know if I could

2255
02:08:14,280 --> 02:08:16,640
pull it off that fast.
If it's just the DNC.

2256
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:22,120
Maybe if, if I, if I had more
support and more funding, I

2257
02:08:22,120 --> 02:08:23,760
could get that done in five
months.

2258
02:08:25,120 --> 02:08:28,120
But without, you know, without
that happening, somebody that's

2259
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:32,040
full time paying my bills.
I've got to sell stuff.

2260
02:08:32,040 --> 02:08:35,400
I've got to I've got to work on
marketing and media and they got

2261
02:08:35,400 --> 02:08:37,680
to do all those other things.
So there's just no way to pull

2262
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:42,360
that off as so long as I have to
make other money, right, I get

2263
02:08:42,360 --> 02:08:45,200
it.
So so we keep saying next year,

2264
02:08:45,200 --> 02:08:46,680
but you know, maybe it's two or
three years.

2265
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:48,480
I don't I don't know.
We'll we'll see what happens,

2266
02:08:49,120 --> 02:08:51,880
but in the in the meantime,
that's what the version is right

2267
02:08:51,880 --> 02:08:53,080
now.
The future.

2268
02:08:53,440 --> 02:08:57,200
Yes, I want definitely want AD
and C that has all of them.

2269
02:08:57,840 --> 02:09:00,240
And then that becomes question.
Well, where do you?

2270
02:09:00,240 --> 02:09:05,640
Stop right?
And I, I, I think I, I

2271
02:09:05,640 --> 02:09:10,160
personally stopped Joseph F
Smith and I don't know besides

2272
02:09:10,160 --> 02:09:17,040
the anyway, I, I don't know of
any that are unknown of his.

2273
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:19,720
I don't know of any non
canonized versions of his.

2274
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:23,440
But you know, if we go later
than that, when you got the

2275
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:27,280
different versions of the
Restorationists, Jeez, you've

2276
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:29,000
got the entire second book of
commandments.

2277
02:09:29,000 --> 02:09:32,280
You've got Fred Collier's got
like 1300 pages of revelations

2278
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:33,840
or something.
I don't, I don't know exactly,

2279
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:38,760
but he's got a lot, you know,
those are volumes all by

2280
02:09:38,760 --> 02:09:40,560
themselves.
And then, you know, you've,

2281
02:09:40,680 --> 02:09:43,520
you've talked to guys like Jeff
Foley that, that know all the,

2282
02:09:44,200 --> 02:09:46,800
all the guys translating
different records saying that

2283
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:49,000
they're the one mighty and
strong or that they're, they've

2284
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:52,960
got the sealed portion of the
Book of Mormon or whatever, all

2285
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:55,960
these other revelations.
Those are mini volumes of that.

2286
02:09:55,960 --> 02:10:00,720
And it doesn't end.
So I I see it ending somewhere

2287
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:02,880
around there.
Maybe Lorenzo Snow or something.

2288
02:10:02,880 --> 02:10:05,800
I, I haven't looked in that
carefully, but that would be

2289
02:10:06,160 --> 02:10:10,600
kind of the end of, you know,
the where most fundamentalist,

2290
02:10:10,920 --> 02:10:16,480
except those the 1st 5 or 6
seven brethren, you know, and

2291
02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:18,000
and I know that's not true for
everybody.

2292
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:19,800
A lot of people are like it's
Joseph and nobody.

2293
02:10:19,800 --> 02:10:21,360
They're fine.
Get you just Smith version.

2294
02:10:21,360 --> 02:10:23,680
You're happy.
Some are like after Brigham it's

2295
02:10:23,680 --> 02:10:27,520
over or after Wolf of which if
it's over, but I think it's

2296
02:10:27,520 --> 02:10:32,640
still important, you know, is is
me talking to somebody in AUB or

2297
02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:36,360
is you talking to somebody in
FLDS or Centennial Park or

2298
02:10:36,360 --> 02:10:39,040
somebody talking to Kingston's
wherever they're different

2299
02:10:39,040 --> 02:10:44,160
groups end their acceptance of
these non canonical revelations.

2300
02:10:44,560 --> 02:10:50,160
We still have a lot of, as it
were, friends or or associates

2301
02:10:50,160 --> 02:10:54,640
in the fundamentalist community
who believe a lot like 98% of

2302
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:56,280
the same things.
Right.

2303
02:10:56,600 --> 02:11:00,760
Also believe in this revelation
by Lorenzo Snow.

2304
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:06,320
You might not accept right?
Or like the 1880 revelation is

2305
02:11:06,320 --> 02:11:08,560
responsible for the split
between Centennial Park and

2306
02:11:08,560 --> 02:11:12,160
FLDS.
So once get accepted, one's not.

2307
02:11:12,240 --> 02:11:15,920
But it's really helpful to know
it's out there and why it's

2308
02:11:15,920 --> 02:11:20,000
important and how that changed
our histories all together.

2309
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:22,040
I.
Think that's really, really

2310
02:11:22,040 --> 02:11:25,880
helpful.
So that will be a newer volume

2311
02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:29,360
again, maybe a couple 2-3 years.
I don't, I don't know exactly.

2312
02:11:29,600 --> 02:11:32,480
I suppose with, without
annotating it, I could just do

2313
02:11:32,600 --> 02:11:36,720
all those non canonized
revelations of, of the early

2314
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:38,280
prophets or something all by
itself.

2315
02:11:38,720 --> 02:11:40,720
I I just hadn't thought about
that till this moment.

2316
02:11:41,160 --> 02:11:43,240
OK.
No, that's good stuff.

2317
02:11:43,840 --> 02:11:45,720
All right.
I got a couple other questions I

2318
02:11:45,720 --> 02:11:48,640
want to ask to wrap up, but I
want to make sure that there's

2319
02:11:48,640 --> 02:11:51,480
nothing that we glossed over as
we've been talking here that you

2320
02:11:51,480 --> 02:11:58,920
really want to put forward.
OK, I don't have anything coming

2321
02:11:58,920 --> 02:12:04,960
to mind other than this is it's
kind of unrelated.

2322
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:06,320
I guess it's a little bit
unrelated.

2323
02:12:07,160 --> 02:12:12,280
I've, I've, so I've got a, I've
got my own podcast newsletter

2324
02:12:12,280 --> 02:12:14,480
and I, I talked to people about
things like this.

2325
02:12:14,480 --> 02:12:19,960
And I'm, I'm my DNC annotated
is, is founded on this JSV.

2326
02:12:20,160 --> 02:12:22,360
That's, that's what I wanted to
do in the 1st place.

2327
02:12:23,480 --> 02:12:26,960
And so now that I've done all
the horrible, tedious grunt work

2328
02:12:26,960 --> 02:12:29,560
of this, now I can do all the
fun stuff.

2329
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:33,720
So I'm back to doing my
annotated stuff as soon as

2330
02:12:33,720 --> 02:12:34,960
possible.
I'm also going to be working on

2331
02:12:34,960 --> 02:12:37,800
the Pearl, a great price.
I've got to balance that out a

2332
02:12:37,800 --> 02:12:43,040
little bit, which again is a is
a partially money issue and

2333
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:46,040
partially I've got promises that
I'm going to get this done.

2334
02:12:46,040 --> 02:12:48,640
I want people to feel assured
that I'm still working on it

2335
02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:51,280
and, and I will get their
volumes out that I promised.

2336
02:12:53,480 --> 02:12:57,720
But I right, right now I'm
looking at what do I publish

2337
02:12:57,720 --> 02:13:05,880
next, 132848893 Those are the,
the four big ones that kind of

2338
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:08,040
get brought up the most when I'm
like, what should I do next?

2339
02:13:08,680 --> 02:13:10,600
Right.
I, I did the entire, just for

2340
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:15,760
context, I did the entire DNC 42
on a dinner conversation where

2341
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:19,760
one of the guys asked me about
it and wanted to know the answer

2342
02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:22,400
and I didn't have the answer and
I didn't know what to do next.

2343
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:24,840
So I did DNC 42 for him.
Got you.

2344
02:13:25,120 --> 02:13:30,000
So when it took me like a couple
months, so so if any of the

2345
02:13:30,000 --> 02:13:34,200
readers are interested or or say
may I get the DNC 132 done or

2346
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:36,440
no, you got to do both of them
coming to the priest at 84, get

2347
02:13:36,440 --> 02:13:41,960
that done or 93 or whatever.
I don't know if you got comments

2348
02:13:41,960 --> 02:13:45,960
on on your stuff, maybe you
don't, but you guys text me on

2349
02:13:45,960 --> 02:13:47,920
face direct message me on
Facebook or something and say,

2350
02:13:47,920 --> 02:13:49,880
Drew, get this done.
This is important.

2351
02:13:49,880 --> 02:13:53,440
Here's why I'm really responsive
to that kind of stuff.

2352
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:57,240
I know I've been approached by a
few different people saying jump

2353
02:13:57,240 --> 02:14:01,800
in on this, the polygamy denier
debate and, you know, do a talk

2354
02:14:01,800 --> 02:14:04,280
or do a paper, you know, that
sort of stuff.

2355
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:10,200
And I haven't decided to jump on
that particular bandwagon yet.

2356
02:14:10,960 --> 02:14:14,720
I think it's real important that
I really burn out on that topic.

2357
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:20,400
So I, I don't know that I could
be a good voice as, as other

2358
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:23,240
people could be on that.
I feel like I'd be kind of kind

2359
02:14:23,240 --> 02:14:27,800
of dismissive of those, those
arguments, you know, Oh, that

2360
02:14:27,800 --> 02:14:29,320
doesn't count because this,
this, this.

2361
02:14:29,320 --> 02:14:31,280
I'm like, that's not how history
works, sweetheart.

2362
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:35,120
Right, no good, sweetheart.
Did you have somebody in mind in

2363
02:14:35,120 --> 02:14:36,560
particular?
Drew.

2364
02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:38,400
Come on, Drew.
Come on, Drew in mind.

2365
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:40,920
Come on.
Drew, do you have in mind?

2366
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:45,240
That's kind of like you had
someone in mind.

2367
02:14:46,240 --> 02:14:50,080
So, so I, I, just, I, I, I, I
haven't jumped on that

2368
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:52,320
bandwagon, but I am really
responsive.

2369
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:55,000
If somebody says, you know, we'd
really like to see this volume.

2370
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:58,040
I, I, I'm right here thinking,
OK, I'm going to, I'm going to

2371
02:14:58,040 --> 02:15:00,960
hit that first.
And I'm almost to the point

2372
02:15:00,960 --> 02:15:04,200
where I'm ready to jump on that.
And so if anybody has some input

2373
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:07,200
or they're like, you know, maybe
not aware of this movement, but

2374
02:15:07,240 --> 02:15:12,240
we, we got to get this DNC 132
done or something, let me know.

2375
02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:15,600
And I'm, I'm open to be
responsive about that.

2376
02:15:16,160 --> 02:15:19,160
Also.
I one, one thing that I do want

2377
02:15:19,160 --> 02:15:25,960
to point out is I would expect
possibly in the summer, I would

2378
02:15:25,960 --> 02:15:31,160
expect that we'll have a triple
combination JSV ready for

2379
02:15:32,840 --> 02:15:37,320
readers, podcasters, whatever
listeners that will be published

2380
02:15:37,320 --> 02:15:41,520
through Pioneer Press, which is
Kevin Krautz publishing company.

2381
02:15:42,320 --> 02:15:45,240
He's been looking for the best
deal for many months.

2382
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:50,000
If I like text is right.
He just got approval for

2383
02:15:50,000 --> 02:15:55,840
something decided on somebody
and that that would be a really

2384
02:15:55,840 --> 02:15:58,040
nice goal.
Gilded pages with the nice

2385
02:15:58,480 --> 02:16:02,320
looking like a normal set of
scriptures, but hopefully one

2386
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:05,880
that you can trust and not
wonder who changed what, how

2387
02:16:05,880 --> 02:16:09,440
much who changed this.
You know, that's a really common

2388
02:16:09,640 --> 02:16:13,240
problem with fundamentalists.
They're like, well, I kind of

2389
02:16:13,240 --> 02:16:15,880
believe it, but I'm, I'm always
worried about something and

2390
02:16:15,880 --> 02:16:17,200
that's what we've tried to get
rid of.

2391
02:16:18,240 --> 02:16:20,480
Any rate, those should be
available, I'm hoping by the end

2392
02:16:20,480 --> 02:16:23,320
of summer.
And, but Kevin Kraut's the one

2393
02:16:23,320 --> 02:16:25,920
you want to keep your eye on.
And I don't know if he's got a

2394
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:28,680
website that he keeps track of
his publications or not.

2395
02:16:29,600 --> 02:16:33,280
I should probably find out and
put one up for him if he

2396
02:16:33,280 --> 02:16:34,920
doesn't.
But regardless, if you're

2397
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:36,719
looking for them, he's the man
to look for.

2398
02:16:36,719 --> 02:16:40,480
I will also be talking about it
and, you know, probably blogging

2399
02:16:40,480 --> 02:16:44,120
about it and likely talk about
the Perl great price with with

2400
02:16:44,120 --> 02:16:45,680
you on a future podcast or
something.

2401
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:50,840
That's, that's where to look for
now for, for, for those things.

2402
02:16:51,440 --> 02:16:56,080
And if anybody has suggestions
on reconsider your format or

2403
02:16:56,080 --> 02:16:58,840
reconsider this or what about,
you know, adding this or

2404
02:16:58,840 --> 02:17:02,520
whatever, I'm open to all the
critique.

2405
02:17:03,040 --> 02:17:06,480
Our our purpose really is to to
have a version all

2406
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:09,760
restorationists can trust, all
restorationists can feel good

2407
02:17:09,760 --> 02:17:16,480
about and and we can use to kind
of unify us better and and

2408
02:17:16,480 --> 02:17:20,480
understand each other better
with with a set that we can

2409
02:17:20,480 --> 02:17:23,879
truly hold on to.
Perfect.

2410
02:17:25,040 --> 02:17:28,280
And yeah, anyone can message me
and I'll get the message to

2411
02:17:28,280 --> 02:17:30,000
Drew.
Unless it's hate mail.

2412
02:17:30,000 --> 02:17:32,520
I'm I'll filter that for Drew.
I'm used to the hate.

2413
02:17:32,959 --> 02:17:34,760
Mail.
Yeah, no, I'm used to that.

2414
02:17:34,760 --> 02:17:35,799
I.
Get plenty of it too.

2415
02:17:35,799 --> 02:17:38,760
But well, I I shouldn't say that
I actually don't for my

2416
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:40,959
religious stuff.
Not not hardly at all anymore.

2417
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:43,400
But.
I I was going to say someday I'm

2418
02:17:43,400 --> 02:17:46,440
going to publish a book and it's
going to be called people have

2419
02:17:46,440 --> 02:17:48,920
the darndest things to say about
Dave, and it's just going to be

2420
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:52,760
the most witty hate mail I get
right, because I like that

2421
02:17:52,879 --> 02:17:54,760
right.
So all I'm going to say is for

2422
02:17:54,760 --> 02:17:57,680
those who who like to drop
those, you got to step that game

2423
02:17:57,680 --> 02:17:59,520
up, right?
If you want an entry in that

2424
02:17:59,520 --> 02:18:01,840
book someday, right, step your
game up.

2425
02:18:01,840 --> 02:18:04,920
You can't be, you can't become.
And halfway you're going to

2426
02:18:04,920 --> 02:18:06,719
insult me.
I expect you to be witty and

2427
02:18:06,719 --> 02:18:07,639
funny.
Why you do it?

2428
02:18:07,879 --> 02:18:09,240
Right.
Read some Shakespeare first.

2429
02:18:09,559 --> 02:18:13,480
Right, absolutely.
You know, I expect some highbrow

2430
02:18:13,480 --> 02:18:15,320
kind of insults coming my way.
I don't.

2431
02:18:19,520 --> 02:18:21,320
To finish up, I got these two
questions.

2432
02:18:21,879 --> 02:18:24,400
OK.
What was your biggest take away

2433
02:18:24,400 --> 02:18:28,520
as you were doing this project?
I mean, what was the thing that

2434
02:18:29,240 --> 02:18:35,480
that you were most either
surprised or something that

2435
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:38,240
really stuck with you as you
were you were going through this

2436
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:43,360
process that was there something
that kind of an overarching

2437
02:18:43,360 --> 02:18:46,520
theme as you were doing this as
you that you took away from this

2438
02:18:46,520 --> 02:18:50,400
experience of, of doing this?
Yeah, thank you.

2439
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:52,240
In fact, I'm considering a whole
book on the topic.

2440
02:18:52,240 --> 02:18:54,080
So let's let's take your other
question first.

2441
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:01,280
What is it you hope people that
by these scriptures get out of

2442
02:19:01,280 --> 02:19:03,920
this?
Oh, that's, that's a really good

2443
02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:12,280
question.
You know, I, I, I, I, I gave

2444
02:19:12,280 --> 02:19:15,040
APDF copy to, to one of the guys
and he was reading through it

2445
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:17,959
and he found that DNC 121 thing
that I talked about earlier

2446
02:19:17,959 --> 02:19:20,440
where it says garnish your
thoughts and ceasingly it

2447
02:19:20,440 --> 02:19:22,480
doesn't say like virtue garnish
your thoughts.

2448
02:19:24,959 --> 02:19:28,840
Those are the, those are the
types of, of, of changes that

2449
02:19:29,520 --> 02:19:32,719
that may or may not be super
significant, but we all know the

2450
02:19:32,719 --> 02:19:36,360
churches made thousands of them
and the mainstream LDS church,

2451
02:19:36,360 --> 02:19:38,920
that's where most everybody's
using their scriptures.

2452
02:19:39,639 --> 02:19:43,360
And I don't have a beef with
their scriptures per SE.

2453
02:19:44,320 --> 02:19:48,800
I'm not bad mouthing it, it,
they needed to change stuff.

2454
02:19:48,960 --> 02:19:52,880
I mean, if I, if I was in charge
of a church and I had a disaster

2455
02:19:52,880 --> 02:19:55,320
mess like the grammar that's in
the Book of Mormon Doctrine

2456
02:19:55,320 --> 02:19:57,640
Covenants, I'd be talking to
somebody about fixing it too.

2457
02:19:59,560 --> 02:20:03,000
And so I, I don't think that's
bad in any way.

2458
02:20:04,640 --> 02:20:08,040
Whether or not we agree on what
they changed, how they changed

2459
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:12,360
it is maybe different issue.
But we, we, you know, I can, I

2460
02:20:12,360 --> 02:20:15,160
respect the fact that they did
change it and I respect why.

2461
02:20:16,480 --> 02:20:20,560
But that said, a lot of people
really struggle with some of

2462
02:20:20,560 --> 02:20:24,640
their changes.
And I think thousands of people,

2463
02:20:24,960 --> 02:20:28,600
thousands of restorationists,
wonder what they changed.

2464
02:20:29,640 --> 02:20:33,560
A lot of people apostatize when
they find what was changed.

2465
02:20:34,240 --> 02:20:35,600
Fundamentalists aren't going to
do that.

2466
02:20:36,040 --> 02:20:38,360
They're going to say, see, told
you so, right.

2467
02:20:40,960 --> 02:20:43,920
But we don't have anything.
And that's bothered me for

2468
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:48,040
decades.
Like, OK, so I'm fundamentalist

2469
02:20:48,040 --> 02:20:50,760
now, and I believe what the
early brethren taught.

2470
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:55,200
So where's the Scripture?
Oh, we just use the church's

2471
02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:57,400
version.
Well, you guys know they're like

2472
02:20:57,400 --> 02:20:59,600
thousands and thousands of
changes they've made, right?

2473
02:21:01,160 --> 02:21:03,600
Yeah.
But it's not worth our tithing

2474
02:21:03,600 --> 02:21:07,360
money to to do our own version.
Like, what's wrong with these

2475
02:21:07,360 --> 02:21:10,280
people?
I I just could not fathom that.

2476
02:21:10,400 --> 02:21:13,120
I'm like, what, you're
supporting all these other

2477
02:21:13,520 --> 02:21:18,760
tidbit projects?
I mean, a group ought to be able

2478
02:21:18,760 --> 02:21:23,200
to throw 50,000 at somebody and
say, take 3/4 of a year and do

2479
02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:25,600
this, you know, or a committee
or something.

2480
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:29,400
Here's 100,000, get it done.
This is the most important thing

2481
02:21:29,880 --> 02:21:33,760
we could have in our libraries
and maybe in all of our

2482
02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:35,920
spiritual knowledge and and so
forth.

2483
02:21:36,400 --> 02:21:41,040
And we don't even have the
interest to create a volume that

2484
02:21:41,040 --> 02:21:43,080
is as true to the original as
possible.

2485
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:46,720
I just, I couldn't fathom that.
And I was like, what is wrong

2486
02:21:46,720 --> 02:21:48,240
with us?
Where are our priorities?

2487
02:21:48,360 --> 02:21:50,480
It, it really disgusted me to be
honest.

2488
02:21:51,880 --> 02:21:53,520
And I just, I just couldn't
fathom that.

2489
02:21:53,520 --> 02:21:59,120
So what I hope people get from
this is, is finally here.

2490
02:21:59,560 --> 02:22:02,320
This is what we needed and
should have had 100 years ago

2491
02:22:03,160 --> 02:22:07,400
when there's first split and
that the the fundamentals were

2492
02:22:07,400 --> 02:22:10,920
first migrating away from the
church because they're rejecting

2493
02:22:10,920 --> 02:22:12,600
plural marriage because of
whatever.

2494
02:22:13,040 --> 02:22:15,240
And, you know, the split
happens.

2495
02:22:15,800 --> 02:22:20,080
We need our own version, our own
set that doesn't have the 1890

2496
02:22:20,080 --> 02:22:26,800
manifesto in it, but that does
have, you know, all these non

2497
02:22:26,800 --> 02:22:30,360
canonized versions or
revelations Joseph in it, Like,

2498
02:22:30,360 --> 02:22:34,400
why aren't these added?
And you know, I just want people

2499
02:22:34,400 --> 02:22:36,320
to feel like I finally have what
I want.

2500
02:22:36,640 --> 02:22:39,320
This is this is scripture
version I wanted.

2501
02:22:39,920 --> 02:22:43,120
And to be honest, I'm annoyed
that there are a lot of

2502
02:22:43,120 --> 02:22:47,760
grammatical errors in it, you
know, but Joseph left him there.

2503
02:22:47,760 --> 02:22:52,240
And so I'll just, I'll just skim
over those, but I'm glad to have

2504
02:22:52,240 --> 02:22:56,960
something that I can trust and
not wonder about that, which is

2505
02:22:56,960 --> 02:23:00,760
the same reason I'm doing the
TPGS or complete teachings of

2506
02:23:00,760 --> 02:23:05,640
Joseph Smith with the original
sources and annotated what they

2507
02:23:05,640 --> 02:23:08,440
changed.
So you can read what he really

2508
02:23:08,440 --> 02:23:12,480
taught and not what the early
brethren interpreted that he

2509
02:23:12,480 --> 02:23:15,600
taught or whatever.
Same, same idea.

2510
02:23:15,600 --> 02:23:18,320
I just want everybody to be able
to have a version they can trust

2511
02:23:18,840 --> 02:23:23,240
and say, Oh, well, here's this
error and go look at a 1840

2512
02:23:23,240 --> 02:23:26,360
lithographic copy that will be,
I'm happy to give out for free.

2513
02:23:26,360 --> 02:23:29,240
You can get them online and you
can compare it and say, oh,

2514
02:23:29,240 --> 02:23:31,880
Drew, this is different.
What happened here, you know,

2515
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:35,520
and I could say, oh, shoot, let
me look that up.

2516
02:23:35,520 --> 02:23:39,480
Let me see. 01835 and 37 had
this, 40 didn't.

2517
02:23:39,480 --> 02:23:42,080
I forgot to footnote that it'll
be in the next edition.

2518
02:23:42,320 --> 02:23:44,440
You know, I'm happy to fix stuff
like that.

2519
02:23:44,440 --> 02:23:49,360
So that's what I want people to
have is, is, is that opportunity

2520
02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:53,960
to to have one that they know.
All of this was approved by

2521
02:23:53,960 --> 02:23:56,800
Joseph and here are the changes
that he made.

2522
02:23:56,880 --> 02:23:59,880
And now I can move from there.
I can compare to the other

2523
02:23:59,880 --> 02:24:02,440
versions.
And when my friend in the church

2524
02:24:02,440 --> 02:24:05,040
quotes the scripture, I can look
at mine and see if I trust it or

2525
02:24:05,040 --> 02:24:07,840
not.
It's a same or if they've got a

2526
02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:11,160
valid pointer if something
dramatically got changed there.

2527
02:24:11,160 --> 02:24:14,800
Like the common DNC 89 says I'm
supposed to be a vegetarian.

2528
02:24:15,640 --> 02:24:17,560
Yeah, that's the biggest heresy
of them all.

2529
02:24:18,440 --> 02:24:21,800
It really is.
Anybody who believes you can't

2530
02:24:21,800 --> 02:24:23,680
eat bacon is just not a good
person.

2531
02:24:26,720 --> 02:24:28,000
Just kidding.
I'm just kidding.

2532
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:29,520
For those who don't know me, I'm
just teasing.

2533
02:24:30,320 --> 02:24:31,680
OK, So what did I get out of
this?

2534
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:35,600
That actually I've, I've, I'm
planning a book and I, I haven't

2535
02:24:35,600 --> 02:24:37,440
gotten through it.
I've kind of outlined some of

2536
02:24:37,440 --> 02:24:40,840
it.
But what really what this did to

2537
02:24:40,840 --> 02:24:44,720
me was and, and I, I mean it
like that, what this did to me,

2538
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:49,040
how this affected me is, is it
really pounded into me the

2539
02:24:49,040 --> 02:24:59,920
process of revelation.
You know, this, this the I, I, I

2540
02:24:59,920 --> 02:25:01,600
mentioned this in the
introduction and stuff, you

2541
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:08,200
know, there, there Jeremiah in,
in, in Jeremiah 17 or something.

2542
02:25:08,200 --> 02:25:09,680
I don't know.
It's in the, it's in the book.

2543
02:25:09,680 --> 02:25:15,240
Go find it.
He he dictates a revelation that

2544
02:25:15,240 --> 02:25:20,240
was lost because it was burned.
Joseph Smith says I can give you

2545
02:25:20,240 --> 02:25:23,560
100 times what's in DNC 76
anytime.

2546
02:25:25,200 --> 02:25:26,560
Hiram Smith said what if, what
if?

2547
02:25:26,600 --> 02:25:30,880
Emma Burns, DNC 132 says don't
worry, I can, I can reproduce

2548
02:25:30,880 --> 02:25:34,160
that whole section of duction of
covenants anytime I want.

2549
02:25:37,240 --> 02:25:39,480
And and Brigham Young says, I
don't think there's ever been a

2550
02:25:39,480 --> 02:25:42,520
perfect revelation given because
God gives revelations to us

2551
02:25:42,520 --> 02:25:44,600
according to our light,
knowledge, our ability and our

2552
02:25:44,600 --> 02:25:47,200
language, and that changes all
the time.

2553
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:49,800
Right.
So that's why it says if Joseph

2554
02:25:49,800 --> 02:25:52,400
retranslates the Book of Mormon
100 times, it's always different

2555
02:25:52,720 --> 02:25:55,800
or 50 times or 500 times,
whatever he says it's different

2556
02:25:55,800 --> 02:25:58,920
same place 50 times every time.
It doesn't bother him.

2557
02:26:00,400 --> 02:26:05,680
And, and I, I've thought a lot
about that in terms of the, the

2558
02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:08,760
book of Abraham in the use of
the Urim and Thummim in the seer

2559
02:26:08,760 --> 02:26:12,120
stone.
You know, a lot of these things

2560
02:26:13,320 --> 02:26:17,720
I've received and I, I think
most listeners can, can, can

2561
02:26:17,720 --> 02:26:21,360
relate to this and but they just
haven't thought about applying

2562
02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:25,400
it to the prophet.
Maybe I've received revelations

2563
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:30,000
where I clearly understood part
of it, and some of it I'm

2564
02:26:30,000 --> 02:26:32,720
thinking I wasn't certain about
this part.

2565
02:26:33,680 --> 02:26:36,920
We see that in with Nephi in the
Tree of Life where he says the

2566
02:26:36,920 --> 02:26:39,480
waters were filthy, but father
was so busy looking at other

2567
02:26:39,480 --> 02:26:41,120
things, he didn't notice the
filthiness of the water.

2568
02:26:41,120 --> 02:26:43,720
But I noticed and that was a big
deal.

2569
02:26:44,680 --> 02:26:46,520
When he's teaching his brothers,
he tells him that.

2570
02:26:47,240 --> 02:26:51,760
So we see a prophet's given a
vision, a revelation, and he

2571
02:26:51,760 --> 02:26:54,120
sees pieces and he misses other
pieces.

2572
02:26:54,400 --> 02:26:58,880
He doesn't comprehend something
until later it, it maybe comes

2573
02:26:58,880 --> 02:27:01,360
to you.
And you know, and I've, I've

2574
02:27:01,360 --> 02:27:04,080
mentioned this to a number of
people and one of my favorite

2575
02:27:04,080 --> 02:27:06,680
people in the world, I mentioned
it to him and he's like, Yup, I

2576
02:27:07,520 --> 02:27:10,000
immediately resonated with him.
I said, you know, have you ever

2577
02:27:10,000 --> 02:27:15,200
given a blessing and you kind of
stumble over some words at one

2578
02:27:15,200 --> 02:27:18,600
point and you give the blessing
to somebody, They're talking to

2579
02:27:18,600 --> 02:27:21,800
you later.
They're like, well, what, what,

2580
02:27:21,800 --> 02:27:24,040
what about this?
And you're like, OK, so glad you

2581
02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:25,400
mentioned that because I had
this impression.

2582
02:27:25,400 --> 02:27:28,760
I didn't know how to say it and
I don't know if I can say it

2583
02:27:28,760 --> 02:27:32,800
right now either, but this is
and you start explaining it and

2584
02:27:32,800 --> 02:27:35,760
and then you clarify that part
of the revelation.

2585
02:27:36,160 --> 02:27:41,640
So it makes more sense.
You might have thought in in

2586
02:27:41,640 --> 02:27:44,440
that I've had this experience
too, where you give a blessing.

2587
02:27:44,440 --> 02:27:47,080
You think, oh, that was clear as
day, the council, but then they

2588
02:27:47,240 --> 02:27:53,040
misunderstood it, you know, and
and then you look, it's the a

2589
02:27:53,040 --> 02:27:55,440
written revelation.
And you're like, oh, well, we

2590
02:27:55,440 --> 02:27:58,440
both read this differently.
And, you know, certainly when

2591
02:27:58,440 --> 02:28:01,440
Joseph received it, he had a
certain understanding and you're

2592
02:28:01,440 --> 02:28:03,400
right.
Now I'm writing or vice versa.

2593
02:28:04,320 --> 02:28:07,240
He knew what the answer was, but
we don't because it's written

2594
02:28:08,120 --> 02:28:11,400
and he's there to clarify it.
And he used a bad grammar or

2595
02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:14,600
something, you know, because he
used to take grammar and that's

2596
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:16,480
just who he was.
It was just his background.

2597
02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:22,280
It's not good or bad.
It's just who he was and so in

2598
02:28:22,280 --> 02:28:26,640
this in this process, you know,
is is I'm looking and seeing the

2599
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:33,120
changes that Joseph himself made
and then undid and then redid

2600
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:37,440
sometimes and I haven't looked
at this one for a long time.

2601
02:28:37,440 --> 02:28:39,960
I'll I'll know better next time
we we talk because this is in

2602
02:28:39,960 --> 02:28:43,600
the in the Pearl great price.
But you know, he did he he

2603
02:28:43,680 --> 02:28:46,040
translated or whatever he's
writing down.

2604
02:28:46,040 --> 02:28:49,480
He says in Enoch wept when he's
talking to God and then he

2605
02:28:50,080 --> 02:28:53,680
crosses out and the next version
says that God wept and then it

2606
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:56,160
crosses out.
They both cry and God says tells

2607
02:28:56,320 --> 02:28:58,760
Enoch quit crying.
You know, right.

2608
02:28:59,280 --> 02:29:06,520
So wow, that back and forth, you
know, he, he, he wrote it down a

2609
02:29:06,520 --> 02:29:10,240
few different times.
Those are contrary accounts of

2610
02:29:10,240 --> 02:29:13,760
what happened, but maybe not.
Maybe just was remembering

2611
02:29:13,760 --> 02:29:17,200
different details at different
times and he finally got it

2612
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:21,000
resolved at the end.
And that happens too.

2613
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:23,920
I mentioned this in a previous
podcast where grandpa tells a

2614
02:29:23,920 --> 02:29:26,400
story and we're like, oh, that
was a great story.

2615
02:29:26,400 --> 02:29:28,360
Grandpa, what happened to this
guy after?

2616
02:29:28,360 --> 02:29:31,080
You know, and he's like, oh, I
forgot to mention that.

2617
02:29:31,080 --> 02:29:33,960
Then he tells that part of the
detail that wasn't there before.

2618
02:29:34,280 --> 02:29:39,080
And some newer historians, quote
UN quote, pseudo historians are

2619
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:41,480
taking those later accounts and
think, oh, you embellish the

2620
02:29:41,480 --> 02:29:47,640
story, answer the question.
And I see revelation a lot the

2621
02:29:47,640 --> 02:29:53,160
same where Joseph is receiving
something, he's explaining it

2622
02:29:53,480 --> 02:29:55,120
later, he explains it somewhere
else better.

2623
02:29:55,120 --> 02:29:58,800
DNC 19 seven talks about some
scriptures being more expressed

2624
02:29:59,200 --> 02:30:04,800
or clear than other scriptures.
And, and so, you know, I've seen

2625
02:30:04,800 --> 02:30:08,040
the changes, hundreds and
thousands of these I've reviewed

2626
02:30:08,960 --> 02:30:12,240
where he, he changes a word or
two and it's like, oh, he's just

2627
02:30:12,240 --> 02:30:13,720
trying to make this easier to
read.

2628
02:30:14,880 --> 02:30:17,720
He strikes out the DS and the
thines and that sort of stuff

2629
02:30:17,720 --> 02:30:22,160
and puts you and yours and it
reads smoother and it makes a

2630
02:30:22,440 --> 02:30:26,240
difficult passage smooth.
But he doesn't do it everywhere

2631
02:30:26,480 --> 02:30:29,120
because he doesn't have time I
think is what it boils down to.

2632
02:30:30,720 --> 02:30:33,440
But I, I see all these changes
and then other places, you know,

2633
02:30:33,440 --> 02:30:35,640
he's changing the elders to the
high council.

2634
02:30:36,040 --> 02:30:39,840
You can see what he's doing.
You know, you can look at it and

2635
02:30:39,840 --> 02:30:42,080
say he's trying to say, OK, the
church has changed.

2636
02:30:42,080 --> 02:30:46,120
Now this revelation is, is good
in principle, theory, concept,

2637
02:30:46,120 --> 02:30:48,440
but in details for
administrative stuff, it needs

2638
02:30:48,440 --> 02:30:50,400
fixed.
So fix it.

2639
02:30:50,960 --> 02:30:55,480
So then when I read Joseph
talking to William W Phelps and

2640
02:30:55,480 --> 02:31:00,920
saying, hey, edit it, correct
it, but don't change the sense

2641
02:31:01,000 --> 02:31:05,080
of it.
Now I, I've come to a much

2642
02:31:05,080 --> 02:31:10,600
deeper appreciation of that.
One of the things I, I teach my

2643
02:31:10,600 --> 02:31:13,440
kids is, is I say, look, when
you're first going through and

2644
02:31:13,680 --> 02:31:15,880
you're in Sunday school, you got
a teacher and they're teaching

2645
02:31:15,880 --> 02:31:17,760
you stuff.
They're telling you stories,

2646
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:23,320
Learn Noah's ark, learn David
and Goliath, learn Jesus and the

2647
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:26,480
woman at the well, right.
But later you don't care about

2648
02:31:26,480 --> 02:31:30,520
the story.
You care about the message, the,

2649
02:31:31,080 --> 02:31:34,000
the moral of the story.
That's what matters with gospel

2650
02:31:34,000 --> 02:31:37,640
stuff.
And if I'm reading that in the

2651
02:31:37,640 --> 02:31:41,920
text that that helps me
understand it better.

2652
02:31:42,680 --> 02:31:47,200
And you know, you can read a lot
of revelation, for instance, on

2653
02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:49,480
you making your calling election
made sure.

2654
02:31:50,360 --> 02:31:55,760
And in DNC 76 it talks about
they will have all things given

2655
02:31:55,760 --> 02:31:58,040
to them.
The politics version says they

2656
02:31:58,040 --> 02:32:00,400
have all of those things given
to them.

2657
02:32:00,680 --> 02:32:03,280
Which is it?
Is it that they've received it

2658
02:32:03,280 --> 02:32:07,600
or it's future?
You know, we can look at those

2659
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:11,080
things very academically and say
Joseph made a mistake or Joseph

2660
02:32:11,080 --> 02:32:13,120
made an error or this, these
types of things.

2661
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:15,480
But I, I look at them very, very
differently.

2662
02:32:15,480 --> 02:32:19,760
I can't read that way.
I, I can't think in, in this

2663
02:32:19,760 --> 02:32:24,120
kind of detached critical mode
anymore because I don't care

2664
02:32:24,120 --> 02:32:26,240
about those things.
I care about what the truth is

2665
02:32:26,240 --> 02:32:29,320
and what the revelation was that
he taught and what the message

2666
02:32:29,320 --> 02:32:31,960
is behind it and how I should
change my life to live according

2667
02:32:31,960 --> 02:32:33,800
to that.
That's what I care about.

2668
02:32:34,360 --> 02:32:37,080
I don't care if there were 7
animals or two of each or seven

2669
02:32:37,080 --> 02:32:40,520
of each, you know, if there's
symbolic value behind that, I

2670
02:32:40,520 --> 02:32:42,240
can, I can consider that, ponder
it.

2671
02:32:42,680 --> 02:32:45,320
But I don't need to remember
that tomorrow when when I've got

2672
02:32:45,320 --> 02:32:47,840
one of my kids is really upset
because a bully is picking on

2673
02:32:47,840 --> 02:32:51,080
them at school.
Doesn't matter, you know?

2674
02:32:51,200 --> 02:32:54,960
But if I understand the purpose
behind it and the, the intent

2675
02:32:54,960 --> 02:32:58,440
and the sense of it, as Joseph
says, that's what really, really

2676
02:32:58,440 --> 02:33:01,480
matters.
And as I was looking in, in

2677
02:33:01,880 --> 02:33:04,760
reviewing these thousands and
thousands and thousands of

2678
02:33:04,760 --> 02:33:08,600
changes in, in, in considering
the commas in the semicolons and

2679
02:33:08,960 --> 02:33:13,280
all this pedantic stuff that
most people are never going to

2680
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:17,920
care about it, It really kind of
brought home to me the, the

2681
02:33:17,960 --> 02:33:21,040
whole purpose is what is the
meaning of this passage?

2682
02:33:21,280 --> 02:33:25,200
And I have to think about that
super, super carefully to make

2683
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:28,560
sure I don't change it.
But the ultimate purpose is to

2684
02:33:28,560 --> 02:33:33,000
learn the truth behind it.
And is, is I was reading that I

2685
02:33:33,000 --> 02:33:36,840
saw more and more of that.
The weakness of Joseph in his

2686
02:33:36,840 --> 02:33:40,960
language to anybody that studied
it super carefully is

2687
02:33:41,240 --> 02:33:46,680
undeniable.
You know, I, I, I, he's one of

2688
02:33:46,680 --> 02:33:50,480
my biggest heroes and, and
favorite people in the history

2689
02:33:50,480 --> 02:33:53,320
of mankind.
But he, he didn't know how to

2690
02:33:53,320 --> 02:33:56,640
write properly.
That wasn't his upbringing.

2691
02:33:56,640 --> 02:33:58,720
It wasn't what he was there for.
I wasn't his gift and it didn't

2692
02:33:58,720 --> 02:34:00,960
matter.
Not even you're familiar with

2693
02:34:00,960 --> 02:34:03,160
his, all of his guffaws and his
thick language.

2694
02:34:03,600 --> 02:34:06,040
You know, his weakness.
But that doesn't make the

2695
02:34:06,040 --> 02:34:10,440
revelation not true.
That whole concept is saying,

2696
02:34:12,120 --> 02:34:16,240
you know, look at the intention
of what's being said and not all

2697
02:34:16,240 --> 02:34:18,200
the little picky things of
what's being said.

2698
02:34:18,600 --> 02:34:24,440
That reminds me of one time I
was at a meeting in AUB and a

2699
02:34:24,840 --> 02:34:28,440
number of the people there say
things in a in a way that's

2700
02:34:28,840 --> 02:34:32,560
awkward to an outsider.
And when I was first there, I

2701
02:34:32,560 --> 02:34:35,200
was like, what?
But what did they just say?

2702
02:34:35,200 --> 02:34:37,320
And I turned to a friend.
I said, you know, he, he just

2703
02:34:37,320 --> 02:34:42,160
said this thing that's so
doctrinally inaccurate, like

2704
02:34:42,920 --> 02:34:46,440
what's he thinking?
And and they would say, Oh, no,

2705
02:34:46,440 --> 02:34:50,400
brother, so, and so he's, I
know, I know him really well.

2706
02:34:50,400 --> 02:34:53,560
What he's trying to say is this.
And they'll explain what he was

2707
02:34:53,560 --> 02:34:56,640
trying to say.
And I'm like, oh, I could kind

2708
02:34:56,640 --> 02:34:58,600
of see that as not what he said
really.

2709
02:34:58,600 --> 02:35:01,400
But I could see I might have
intended to say that.

2710
02:35:01,400 --> 02:35:03,600
You know, I'll take your word
for it because you know him

2711
02:35:03,600 --> 02:35:05,720
really well and I don't.
He's a stranger, right?

2712
02:35:06,400 --> 02:35:09,760
Right.
But but their their approach to

2713
02:35:09,760 --> 02:35:14,280
that listening to a discourse
was so different than me.

2714
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:17,280
I'm trying to get the meat of
the gospel out of it.

2715
02:35:17,760 --> 02:35:20,400
And they're trying to say what's
what's his, what's he really

2716
02:35:20,400 --> 02:35:24,480
trying to get at?
What's the his intention rather

2717
02:35:24,480 --> 02:35:27,280
than the semantic details?
You know, the pedantic little

2718
02:35:28,040 --> 02:35:29,560
pieces that you can bicker
about.

2719
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:33,080
Right.
And and so I think for me,

2720
02:35:33,080 --> 02:35:35,720
reading the revelations, reading
the Book of Mormon, reading the

2721
02:35:35,720 --> 02:35:39,680
Bible, I I spent many months
studying all the changes in the

2722
02:35:39,680 --> 02:35:44,000
Bible, not just Joseph's
changes, but the the early

2723
02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:48,720
Christian Church changes.
All of all of that is just

2724
02:35:48,720 --> 02:35:51,800
really pointed to me that God
loves thousands of errors in his

2725
02:35:51,800 --> 02:35:53,920
word to go out among the
children men.

2726
02:35:54,680 --> 02:36:00,040
And I really think he doesn't
care what he's saying is look,

2727
02:36:01,040 --> 02:36:02,560
you're going to find that
contradiction.

2728
02:36:02,720 --> 02:36:05,760
Jeremiah said the stupidest.
What was he thinking?

2729
02:36:05,800 --> 02:36:07,360
I taught him better.
You know.

2730
02:36:07,800 --> 02:36:11,120
They said this thing that's just
off and that's going to make

2731
02:36:11,120 --> 02:36:15,200
people struggle with what Christ
says, you know, thousands of

2732
02:36:15,200 --> 02:36:19,080
years later when they've got
both records and it's going to

2733
02:36:19,080 --> 02:36:20,440
be a stumbling block for some of
them.

2734
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:24,840
And he says, I don't care that
they're supposed to rely on me.

2735
02:36:25,440 --> 02:36:31,040
Ask me to clarify, talk to me
about it, you know, and and quit

2736
02:36:31,400 --> 02:36:34,480
use it as a as an opportunity,
as springboard to learn more

2737
02:36:34,960 --> 02:36:39,160
rather than to say, Oh, well,
maybe there's this the the

2738
02:36:39,160 --> 02:36:42,480
documentary hypothesis of
somebody revising the scriptures

2739
02:36:42,480 --> 02:36:46,920
with malintent, which is a a
theory about Deuteronomy.

2740
02:36:48,720 --> 02:36:51,040
Yeah, I I really think it's,
it's just very different than

2741
02:36:51,040 --> 02:36:52,920
that.
He's he's like I I really don't

2742
02:36:52,920 --> 02:36:54,880
care about a lot of these
details.

2743
02:36:55,360 --> 02:37:02,120
I want errors there so they can
see humanity behind the prophet

2744
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:05,480
it but but to look to me to find
the understanding.

2745
02:37:06,200 --> 02:37:08,960
And I've I've quoted it before.
There's a quote in the gospel of

2746
02:37:08,960 --> 02:37:13,560
Kylate I truly love.
And you know, it's it's because

2747
02:37:13,560 --> 02:37:16,240
it's rare that I like to
emphasize it, not because it's

2748
02:37:16,240 --> 02:37:18,240
like the foundation of my gospel
or something.

2749
02:37:19,000 --> 02:37:23,440
But in this gospel of Kylate,
Christ says do not say something

2750
02:37:23,440 --> 02:37:27,240
is right or wrong, only right or
wrong according to the law.

2751
02:37:29,120 --> 02:37:34,920
And his whole point is saying
don't, don't judge people on

2752
02:37:34,920 --> 02:37:38,960
morality stuff only if it's
right or wrong according to the

2753
02:37:38,960 --> 02:37:43,400
law, because they may be
operating on a higher law than

2754
02:37:43,400 --> 02:37:47,840
you and you just don't know.
God hasn't given you all the

2755
02:37:47,840 --> 02:37:50,440
light knowledge.
There's more yet to receive.

2756
02:37:50,960 --> 02:37:53,680
So before you go judging other
people for what they're doing,

2757
02:37:54,520 --> 02:37:58,200
you know, make sure for me first
that you're on the higher plane

2758
02:37:58,200 --> 02:38:00,960
than they are because a lot of
times we're not.

2759
02:38:01,800 --> 02:38:05,920
And just as a simple example of
this, you know, if you ask any

2760
02:38:05,920 --> 02:38:09,760
fundamentalist, what's the
higher law, plural marriage or

2761
02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:12,720
monogamy, they're going to say
plural marriage.

2762
02:38:13,680 --> 02:38:15,960
You talk to anybody in the
mainstream church and they're

2763
02:38:15,960 --> 02:38:19,720
probably going to say monogamy.
And they're both judging each

2764
02:38:19,720 --> 02:38:22,600
other for being wicked and
apostate, apostate or something,

2765
02:38:22,600 --> 02:38:26,680
You know, and instead of just
saying, well, the prophet told

2766
02:38:26,680 --> 02:38:29,040
me this or the prophet told me
that, or my prophet says, your

2767
02:38:29,040 --> 02:38:32,160
prophet says, you know, we
should just be saying, OK,

2768
02:38:32,640 --> 02:38:37,040
according to the law, you know,
polygamy is against the law.

2769
02:38:37,040 --> 02:38:41,240
It's a misdemeanor.
But that's, that's where we stop

2770
02:38:41,240 --> 02:38:45,840
saying stuff at some level and,
and look and say, OK, let me

2771
02:38:45,840 --> 02:38:49,640
take this to the Lord now and
find out who's right about this

2772
02:38:49,640 --> 02:38:53,720
issue and not to spend my life
judging other people.

2773
02:38:53,720 --> 02:38:57,520
And, and you know what the, he
blessed the sacrament and he,

2774
02:38:57,720 --> 02:38:59,560
he, he blessed it and then he
broke it.

2775
02:38:59,680 --> 02:39:03,120
But Christ clearly says to break
it first and third, Nephi, you

2776
02:39:03,120 --> 02:39:06,280
know, that's an important issue
if I want to live my life

2777
02:39:06,400 --> 02:39:10,400
properly, but I'm not going to
waste anytime judging anybody

2778
02:39:10,400 --> 02:39:14,200
about that because the intention
behind it is contrary to the

2779
02:39:14,200 --> 02:39:18,560
judgement.
And so I, I, I've learned so

2780
02:39:18,560 --> 02:39:22,440
much about the whole process of
revelation at at one point.

2781
02:39:22,440 --> 02:39:25,280
This is something new.
I found out Joseph Smith used

2782
02:39:25,280 --> 02:39:27,640
the seer stone to receive
revelations in the doctrine

2783
02:39:27,640 --> 02:39:30,200
cabinets.
We know that he used it to

2784
02:39:30,200 --> 02:39:31,640
translate the Book of Mormon.
We know that.

2785
02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:36,480
But when he stopped using it and
he just started receiving

2786
02:39:36,480 --> 02:39:40,480
revelation like just a second
brother, we pray, OK, here's

2787
02:39:40,480 --> 02:39:43,080
revelation.
When he started doing that, it

2788
02:39:43,080 --> 02:39:44,640
was a stumbling block for the
Saints.

2789
02:39:45,360 --> 02:39:47,920
So how can you be a seer unless
you have a seer stone?

2790
02:39:48,120 --> 02:39:51,640
Interesting.
But he's responded and somebody

2791
02:39:51,640 --> 02:39:53,720
asked him.
He said I don't need it anymore.

2792
02:39:54,160 --> 02:39:57,840
I grew in the principle of a
Sorry, I grew in the principle

2793
02:39:57,840 --> 02:40:01,080
of revelation to the degree I
don't need that crutch.

2794
02:40:02,400 --> 02:40:05,280
Interesting.
And so there are these different

2795
02:40:05,280 --> 02:40:10,520
levels of, of revelation.
And I might receive a revelation

2796
02:40:10,600 --> 02:40:13,560
and try and convey it to you and
say it in such a way that it's a

2797
02:40:13,560 --> 02:40:16,720
stumbling block and you reject
it, but it's true.

2798
02:40:18,000 --> 02:40:20,880
And on the other hand, I might
do the same thing to somebody

2799
02:40:20,880 --> 02:40:22,000
else.
They receive a revelation.

2800
02:40:22,000 --> 02:40:24,480
I'm like, and then and I'm not
ready for the second coming.

2801
02:40:24,680 --> 02:40:29,840
You know, the we, we're so
caught up in, in, in these

2802
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:32,840
different things, but the
process of revelation we're not

2803
02:40:32,840 --> 02:40:36,040
so familiar with.
So we get deceived and we make

2804
02:40:36,040 --> 02:40:38,840
mistakes.
And you know, Joseph talked

2805
02:40:38,840 --> 02:40:40,960
quite a lot about that because
of the mistakes that happened in

2806
02:40:40,960 --> 02:40:42,200
Kirtland with people getting
deceived.

2807
02:40:42,200 --> 02:40:48,240
At the end of the day, there's
a, a growth in revelation and

2808
02:40:48,240 --> 02:40:51,560
what you learn and how it works
that I think if people

2809
02:40:51,560 --> 02:40:55,600
understood better, we'd have
lost deception, less, less

2810
02:40:55,600 --> 02:40:59,440
confusion.
And at any rate, so on a

2811
02:40:59,440 --> 02:41:00,920
personal basis, what did I
learn?

2812
02:41:01,800 --> 02:41:03,680
That's what I learned a lot
about.

2813
02:41:03,720 --> 02:41:09,840
I, I, I just completely feel
like I'm, I'm much more deeply

2814
02:41:09,840 --> 02:41:13,960
understand this process of
revelation from a prophet's

2815
02:41:13,960 --> 02:41:18,480
perspective, from God giving
information to his prophet's

2816
02:41:18,480 --> 02:41:23,680
perspective and, and
appreciating that more.

2817
02:41:24,200 --> 02:41:28,800
I think in the past I've been
maybe more frustrated that I, I

2818
02:41:28,800 --> 02:41:32,320
want the perfect revelation.
I want the perfect

2819
02:41:32,440 --> 02:41:35,560
understanding.
I want all of it one spot,

2820
02:41:35,640 --> 02:41:37,760
right?
That's maybe part of my

2821
02:41:37,760 --> 02:41:40,160
motivation between the, the
complete teachings of the Joseph

2822
02:41:40,160 --> 02:41:42,320
Smith as it came from his mouth
and not as it was changed.

2823
02:41:42,800 --> 02:41:47,680
I want to know from the source,
you know, even that's not it's

2824
02:41:47,680 --> 02:41:49,960
not good enough sometimes.
Sometimes you just got to get it

2825
02:41:49,960 --> 02:41:53,120
straight from God and, and, and
learning to understand that

2826
02:41:53,120 --> 02:41:57,480
process is, is a lifelong thing.
Joseph said, I think it's ATP

2827
02:41:57,480 --> 02:42:02,200
just 149 to 151 somewhere around
there where it might be 180.

2828
02:42:03,240 --> 02:42:05,120
Dang, I really should learn that
better.

2829
02:42:05,680 --> 02:42:10,360
But he says, you know, when you
are thinking about something,

2830
02:42:10,360 --> 02:42:12,760
you're praying about it, and
later you notice ideas coming to

2831
02:42:12,760 --> 02:42:15,880
your mind and they're growing
and and they started pressing

2832
02:42:15,880 --> 02:42:21,280
things upon you as you notice
that you're recognizing that's

2833
02:42:21,280 --> 02:42:24,760
revelation and then you slowly
grow in that principle.

2834
02:42:27,080 --> 02:42:30,880
People tend to think I received
a revelation and hear the words

2835
02:42:30,880 --> 02:42:32,800
on the page of what the.
Revelation was.

2836
02:42:33,000 --> 02:42:34,760
And and that's, that's the
revelation.

2837
02:42:36,360 --> 02:42:37,840
And I I think that's missing the
boat.

2838
02:42:39,600 --> 02:42:41,080
Those are the words that you
received.

2839
02:42:41,080 --> 02:42:45,400
Yeah, but what was what was the
intention behind those words?

2840
02:42:45,400 --> 02:42:47,960
What's what's the meaning behind
it?

2841
02:42:48,200 --> 02:42:51,240
I can write down, you know, I
have other sheep I have which

2842
02:42:51,240 --> 02:42:54,040
are not of this fold.
This is revelation Jesus gave

2843
02:42:54,040 --> 02:42:55,160
us.
He said other sheep I have.

2844
02:42:55,160 --> 02:42:56,600
And I wrote it down and put it
in my book.

2845
02:42:56,920 --> 02:42:59,040
I didn't have the sense to ask
him who they were.

2846
02:43:00,440 --> 02:43:02,080
You know, that was his whole
intention.

2847
02:43:02,320 --> 02:43:04,280
He said.
Father told me not to tell

2848
02:43:04,280 --> 02:43:06,880
unless they asked.
So I told them other sheep I

2849
02:43:06,880 --> 02:43:08,120
have.
You gonna ask?

2850
02:43:08,640 --> 02:43:10,280
And they didn't ask, so I didn't
tell them.

2851
02:43:10,960 --> 02:43:13,880
And he's telling this to the
Nephites and he just got done

2852
02:43:13,880 --> 02:43:15,720
telling him he was going to
leave to go visit his other

2853
02:43:15,720 --> 02:43:17,720
sheep still.
Did they ask?

2854
02:43:18,440 --> 02:43:21,040
No.
So that they got the words

2855
02:43:21,080 --> 02:43:23,120
right, but they didn't get the
meaning.

2856
02:43:24,000 --> 02:43:25,600
He's like, I'll tell you who it
is.

2857
02:43:25,800 --> 02:43:27,400
Who wants to know?
Nobody.

2858
02:43:28,000 --> 02:43:31,040
Dang, my other apostles didn't
want to know either.

2859
02:43:31,560 --> 02:43:34,880
So frustrating.
I want to share with you so much

2860
02:43:34,880 --> 02:43:38,920
more, but you're just not
getting the real just of what

2861
02:43:38,920 --> 02:43:43,800
this is about.
And at any rate, so I, I think

2862
02:43:43,800 --> 02:43:47,120
that, you know, we, we get this
idea that the revelation is the

2863
02:43:47,120 --> 02:43:50,200
words on the page or the, you
know, the scriptures, the words

2864
02:43:50,200 --> 02:43:52,440
on the page and what, how we're
supposed to interpret is

2865
02:43:52,440 --> 02:43:54,920
important.
But a lot of times that's kind

2866
02:43:54,920 --> 02:43:57,240
of missing a lot of the, the
message.

2867
02:43:57,240 --> 02:44:03,520
It's, it's other little details.
And, and I'll say this is, is an

2868
02:44:03,520 --> 02:44:08,160
example, I presume listeners,
readers have had similar

2869
02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:10,880
experiences.
And and I'm not touting any

2870
02:44:11,200 --> 02:44:14,240
specific thing to me, but just
as an example, if you ever

2871
02:44:14,240 --> 02:44:23,320
received a really short
revelation, but the significance

2872
02:44:23,320 --> 02:44:28,880
of those two sentences or, or
even I've had one word was so

2873
02:44:28,880 --> 02:44:31,680
massive and extensive and
expansive.

2874
02:44:31,680 --> 02:44:37,960
I pondered for days about those
two sentences or the one word or

2875
02:44:37,960 --> 02:44:43,160
the, the, the massive expansive
ideas those brought to my mind

2876
02:44:43,160 --> 02:44:45,080
and that I understood from those
words.

2877
02:44:45,840 --> 02:44:48,840
You know, the spirit speaks to
us not just in words, but in

2878
02:44:48,840 --> 02:44:53,520
emotions and feelings and, and,
you know, expanding our mind and

2879
02:44:53,520 --> 02:44:57,640
so forth and suggesting concepts
and ideas and visualizations.

2880
02:44:57,640 --> 02:45:01,080
Even, you know, we've got very
apocalyptic dreams by some of

2881
02:45:01,080 --> 02:45:02,960
the Old Testament men that are
very visual.

2882
02:45:03,640 --> 02:45:06,960
And all of these things can be
shown to us and mean way more

2883
02:45:06,960 --> 02:45:14,160
than we can express.
You know, I at any rate, I think

2884
02:45:14,160 --> 02:45:16,600
most people can relate to that.
And if not, hopefully they'll

2885
02:45:16,600 --> 02:45:19,840
have the experience.
I, I think most good Saints have

2886
02:45:19,840 --> 02:45:24,000
had the experiences like that
and you know, the spouses.

2887
02:45:24,000 --> 02:45:26,360
Oh, so you know, you said you
received a revelation, what God

2888
02:45:26,360 --> 02:45:30,160
tell you and he says, well, you
know, we're supposed to move to

2889
02:45:30,160 --> 02:45:33,440
Missouri.
That's what the word was.

2890
02:45:33,440 --> 02:45:38,160
Go to Missouri or something.
But then you say, but I

2891
02:45:38,160 --> 02:45:41,800
understood from that, I had this
understanding that our family

2892
02:45:41,800 --> 02:45:46,560
specifically has a calling there
and that we're supposed to meet

2893
02:45:46,560 --> 02:45:49,640
some people there and get
involved in teaching the youth

2894
02:45:49,640 --> 02:45:51,760
or something.
We could, but those weren't the

2895
02:45:51,760 --> 02:45:54,320
words.
That was just understanding that

2896
02:45:54,320 --> 02:45:59,440
you had why you're supposed to
go and and and see when Joseph's

2897
02:45:59,440 --> 02:46:03,400
receiving a vision like DNC 76,
it's so vast and expansive.

2898
02:46:04,040 --> 02:46:09,040
How many things were like that?
So when I read the rewrite, the

2899
02:46:09,040 --> 02:46:13,640
poetic rewrite, I, I see Joseph
saying, oh, here's a little

2900
02:46:13,640 --> 02:46:16,400
detail I didn't mention the
first time.

2901
02:46:16,880 --> 02:46:18,480
Here's a little something extra
too.

2902
02:46:18,880 --> 02:46:21,520
And let me throw this in and see
if it makes you ponder a little

2903
02:46:21,520 --> 02:46:25,560
bit, because there's so much
more there that he wanted to

2904
02:46:25,560 --> 02:46:27,640
share and, and didn't feel the
Saints were ready for.

2905
02:46:28,320 --> 02:46:30,480
So excuse me.
I, I don't know.

2906
02:46:30,480 --> 02:46:33,080
I that wasn't the most eloquent
series.

2907
02:46:33,080 --> 02:46:34,560
No, that was great.
That happened.

2908
02:46:34,840 --> 02:46:39,160
No, that was, that was good.
I think you know as you've

2909
02:46:39,160 --> 02:46:40,040
talked.
About it.

2910
02:46:40,080 --> 02:46:42,880
And it's something that I
believed for a long time based

2911
02:46:42,880 --> 02:46:47,720
off of evidence I saw.
We're awfully unfair to Joseph

2912
02:46:47,720 --> 02:46:49,480
Smith in our assumption
sometimes.

2913
02:46:49,680 --> 02:46:54,040
Yeah, right.
Because, you know, as I was a

2914
02:46:54,040 --> 02:46:57,520
young Mormon just coming into
the LDS church, I had this idea

2915
02:46:58,320 --> 02:47:03,320
that God would impart A
revelation to Joseph, and Joseph

2916
02:47:03,320 --> 02:47:06,320
understood everything about.
That revelation?

2917
02:47:06,320 --> 02:47:11,200
That he just believed, right?
And we do not give Joseph Smith

2918
02:47:11,280 --> 02:47:17,400
the grace to grow as we would
require for ourselves, right?

2919
02:47:17,800 --> 02:47:21,880
We would say, you know, and so
when things look like they're

2920
02:47:21,880 --> 02:47:25,160
contradictions, well, they're
not contradictions.

2921
02:47:25,160 --> 02:47:28,160
It's just he's getting further
revelation on the revelation he

2922
02:47:28,160 --> 02:47:34,040
received previously and that is
absolutely part of this

2923
02:47:34,040 --> 02:47:39,560
revelatory process.
It's not often I think you can

2924
02:47:39,560 --> 02:47:43,440
look in the Restoration.
And not see.

2925
02:47:43,720 --> 02:47:47,320
Revelation grow upon revelation.
And it was true for Joseph.

2926
02:47:47,880 --> 02:47:51,280
It's true for us.
Cut the guy some slack.

2927
02:47:52,320 --> 02:47:55,920
Yeah, You know, firstly, he used
the wrong word, right?

2928
02:47:56,400 --> 02:47:58,720
Salvation.
But he meant exultation, right?

2929
02:47:59,960 --> 02:48:03,760
Absolutely.
So, Drew, dude, you've been a

2930
02:48:03,760 --> 02:48:05,920
busy man.
Good stuff.

2931
02:48:06,400 --> 02:48:12,880
I can't wait to see this thing.
So yeah, I I hope I hope it's

2932
02:48:12,960 --> 02:48:17,200
it's really well received.
One of the guys in in the in.

2933
02:48:17,200 --> 02:48:21,240
The the, the, the funders, as it
were, and he might not care if

2934
02:48:21,240 --> 02:48:22,400
they share his name.
I don't know.

2935
02:48:22,400 --> 02:48:26,800
I just, I, I tend to be sure
people's privacy sometimes, but

2936
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:30,560
regardless, you know, he got a
copy and he's like, man, I, I

2937
02:48:30,560 --> 02:48:32,280
don't want to use anything else
anymore.

2938
02:48:32,280 --> 02:48:36,560
It's just so nice seeing
everything there that Joseph did

2939
02:48:36,600 --> 02:48:40,640
and what his changes were.
And let me just look at the raw

2940
02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:42,920
text itself and ponder from
there.

2941
02:48:42,920 --> 02:48:48,320
And, and kind of it didn't
realize how many assumptions he

2942
02:48:48,320 --> 02:48:51,440
was making, reading different
versions and so forth, or how

2943
02:48:51,440 --> 02:48:54,160
much it bothered him to not
know, you know, right.

2944
02:48:55,640 --> 02:48:58,720
So I'm, I'm hoping it's, it's
impactful for the like that for

2945
02:48:58,720 --> 02:49:04,600
a lot of people.
I, I, it's, it's been almost a

2946
02:49:04,600 --> 02:49:10,200
year of poverty for me doing
this project and, and still not

2947
02:49:10,200 --> 02:49:11,680
charging a lot, like I said on
the paperback.

2948
02:49:11,680 --> 02:49:14,000
So if people are poor, they can
get it, They're cheap as as

2949
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:18,040
cheap as we can get it.
So it's, it's not been a big

2950
02:49:18,040 --> 02:49:22,200
money, money thing that frankly
I kind of needed at the time,

2951
02:49:22,960 --> 02:49:24,760
but we got supported through the
process.

2952
02:49:24,760 --> 02:49:29,440
But the, the, the ultimate goal,
however, is I, I'm just, I, I

2953
02:49:29,440 --> 02:49:35,280
would love to see, you know,
50,000 copies burn up and, and,

2954
02:49:35,280 --> 02:49:39,920
and know that it's, it's being
used and received and valued

2955
02:49:39,920 --> 02:49:45,000
and, and 'cause I, I really do
think, you know, even even if

2956
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:47,560
you use another set of
scriptures as your primary thing

2957
02:49:47,560 --> 02:49:49,560
right now, 'cause it's got cross
references and all that sort of

2958
02:49:49,560 --> 02:49:55,000
stuff, there's so much value in
absolutely the, the original

2959
02:49:55,000 --> 02:49:58,320
fountain version of it that you
can also cross reference and you

2960
02:49:58,320 --> 02:50:00,000
can also.
See what was changed.

2961
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:05,200
In at any rate, I I I hope it's
I hope it's it's well loved.

2962
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:08,440
That's yeah, no, I'm I'm sure it
will be true.

2963
02:50:08,440 --> 02:50:11,360
I think, I think, you know,
we've needed.

2964
02:50:12,120 --> 02:50:17,040
We've needed our own stuff for a
while and as fundamentalist,

2965
02:50:17,040 --> 02:50:20,400
we've absolutely needed that.
And I do think that good things

2966
02:50:20,400 --> 02:50:25,280
are on the horizon there.
So the, the, the triple that's

2967
02:50:25,280 --> 02:50:28,200
bounded by leather that won't be
available to this summer, is

2968
02:50:28,200 --> 02:50:29,680
that correct?
Is that what I remember you

2969
02:50:29,680 --> 02:50:31,800
saying?
Yeah, that's that's our hope.

2970
02:50:31,800 --> 02:50:36,040
And partly that's dependent on
me getting off my Duff and and

2971
02:50:36,120 --> 02:50:40,360
getting the pro grade.
Price out fast and part of

2972
02:50:40,360 --> 02:50:43,520
that's funding and printing time
and that sort of thing.

2973
02:50:43,520 --> 02:50:46,640
And I, I, we, we don't have a
strong timetable, but we're

2974
02:50:46,640 --> 02:50:51,240
really, really hoping to, to, to
get that done as fast as

2975
02:50:51,240 --> 02:50:54,160
possible.
And now that the, all the

2976
02:50:54,160 --> 02:50:56,920
punctuation stuff is behind me,
I think I could put it a lot

2977
02:50:56,920 --> 02:50:58,560
faster.
Good deal.

2978
02:50:59,320 --> 02:51:02,440
And then the, the hardback and
the soft back is available on

2979
02:51:02,440 --> 02:51:04,000
Amazon now.
Is that correct?

2980
02:51:04,360 --> 02:51:07,600
Correct.
Amazon gave me some grief about

2981
02:51:07,600 --> 02:51:11,000
the The 87 Revelations
paperback.

2982
02:51:11,120 --> 02:51:13,640
Published separately.
They want me to do something

2983
02:51:13,640 --> 02:51:15,640
they didn't request for me to do
on the hardback.

2984
02:51:15,640 --> 02:51:18,560
So I've got to go make some time
there.

2985
02:51:19,120 --> 02:51:23,160
And there's there's another one
that they've got some gripe

2986
02:51:23,160 --> 02:51:27,240
about that isn't quite out, but
I think that's just a digital

2987
02:51:27,240 --> 02:51:29,520
version.
But I think the hardback and

2988
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:32,560
paperback are, are pretty much
available for everything now

2989
02:51:33,120 --> 02:51:36,880
and, and, or will be super soon.
I do know that if you want the

2990
02:51:36,880 --> 02:51:40,440
DNC that's got everything that's
good hardback, paperback.

2991
02:51:41,000 --> 02:51:43,720
You want the Book of Mormon
hardback paperback that's good.

2992
02:51:44,600 --> 02:51:47,360
You want the specialty one that
doesn't have Joseph's stuff in

2993
02:51:47,360 --> 02:51:48,880
it.
That's the one I think that has

2994
02:51:48,880 --> 02:51:54,240
a paperback problem, possibly in
the in the 87 by itself, but the

2995
02:51:54,240 --> 02:51:59,840
one that's just DNC but doesn't
have the 87 revelations, I think

2996
02:51:59,840 --> 02:52:01,160
that one's good in both of
those.

2997
02:52:02,520 --> 02:52:04,080
Sorry, that's probably too much
detail.

2998
02:52:04,400 --> 02:52:09,600
No, no, it's good.
All right, folks, go to, go to

2999
02:52:09,600 --> 02:52:11,960
Amazon or go to. 1830
Mercantile.

3000
02:52:11,960 --> 02:52:16,120
Dot org and those are those.
Are there go go grab them get

3001
02:52:16,120 --> 02:52:20,000
let we we've needed our own
stuff for a while and this is a

3002
02:52:20,000 --> 02:52:22,200
big part of it is is our own
scripture.

3003
02:52:22,200 --> 02:52:26,360
So go grab it.
You, like you said, even if it's

3004
02:52:26,360 --> 02:52:29,800
not your primary version, you're
going to want something that's

3005
02:52:29,800 --> 02:52:32,880
closer to the thought the the
the fountain, right?

3006
02:52:32,880 --> 02:52:35,480
The where where the waters
aren't so muddy.

3007
02:52:35,960 --> 02:52:41,120
So go, go get that stuff.
Drew, you're I don't know how

3008
02:52:41,120 --> 02:52:43,800
you do it, dude.
I struggle to get a podcast out

3009
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:46,520
a week and you're just cranking
out books like it's nobody's a

3010
02:52:46,520 --> 02:52:50,440
business.
So well, man, let's let's do it

3011
02:52:50,440 --> 02:52:52,400
again soon.
Yeah, absolutely.

3012
02:52:52,920 --> 02:52:54,080
All right.
Thanks for your.

3013
02:52:54,080 --> 02:52:55,360
Time Bud talking to.
You, Dave.

3014
02:52:55,800 --> 02:52:57,280
You too, man.
Bye.

3015
02:52:57,720 --> 02:53:30,440
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

3016
02:53:30,480 --> 02:53:31,480
Renegade podcast.