Episode #1 The Adam-God Doctrine with Jacob Vidrine

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On this episode of the Mormon.
Renegade podcast, I sit down

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with Jacob Verdean.
I follow Jacob for quite a few

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years on, various Facebook
groups, talking about Mormon

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fundamentalism, and I was always
impressed with his takes on the

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atom God doctor.
And so, I have Jacob on the

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podcast.
This time to help us kind of

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sort through the the history of
the doctrine.

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And what it really means that
next on this episode Of the

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Mormon Renegade podcast.
Your listing to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Welcome to the Mormon Renegade

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podcast.
I'm your host, Dave Sanders.

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If you want to get ahold of me,
you can do that by dropping me

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an email at Mormon Renegade at
gmail.com.

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You can also find me on Twitter,
get her Instagram all under the

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Mormon Renegade handle.
Jacob, I can't appreciate you

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more for being here.
I know it's a bit of a drive

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from where you came from, to get
to my place.

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So I appreciate you being here.
Well, it's good to be on Dave.

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So, real quick.
Did you, were you always a

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fundamentalist know?
Was not a fundamentalist, I grew

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up in the mainstream LDS church,
I had a lot of great experiences

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in the church.
It was I started to take a deep

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interest in the restored gospel
and the doctrines of the Kingdom

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about the age of 20.
I started studying and

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researching and I was going
through my dad's library and

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borrowing books.
You know, that you know, he had

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his Gospel Library like most
faithful Mormons Do and read the

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king fault discourse and I was
like, whoa this is expansive.

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This opens up a whole field of
information and deeper

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understanding of the gospel and
I just wanted to I was just

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hungering and thirsting for more
knowledge.

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Let me stop you there for a
minute.

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Let me ask you this when was the
first time that you can remember

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that you kind of looked back and
went okay?

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Something's not right here
between what I'm getting from

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the LDS church and What?
I'm reading out of my dad's

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Library.
What was the first inclination?

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Can you a lot of guys can kind
of remember that moment, right?

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That where you have to make a
decision either to do mental

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gymnastics to make what some of
the first prophets of the

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restoration were saying versus
what you're getting or you put

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your stock into what Joseph
said, what Brigham said, what

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John Taylor said was there a
moment was there?

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Something that you read that?
You can think back to you that

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you're like, Oh, man.
Something's wrong.

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Yes, there is.
And I was going through my dad's

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library and a little black book
that's, you know, about, you

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know, an inch thick at most
probably called Michael.

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Adam just caught my eye Hagen
Crowd by Ogden cracker.

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And so, your dad was kind of.
And so I saw this book on my

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dad's shelf and I go, what's
this book about?

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And my dad goes.
I've never seen that book

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before.
I don't remember reading that

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book really And that, of course,
piques my interest even further.

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And so I grab that book and that
ended up being the next book on

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my reading list.
I just read stayed up all night

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reading, Michael Adam, and that
was probably my wake-up call

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that there are deeper doctrines
that the church no longer has

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so.
So you you you figure out that

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this is wrong you go to your dad
and say what does this mean?

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I mean what was your first
inclination?

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You go to your Bishop who do you
go to to be like hey what is

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this?
Help me under help me understand

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what this is and what its
ramifications are.

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I was very open with my dad as I
was studying.

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I think when I when I found the
king Follett discourse, my I was

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busy with work and so I couldn't
unfortunately didn't go, but my

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family was on a church history,
family, vacation going to back

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to see Nauvoo and all the sites
and I was sending text messages

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to my dad, as I was studying and
And so, obviously, I mentioned

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it to him and, you know, he's
like, huh, that is kind of

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interesting.
And I also, I was regularly

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meeting with my Bishop to
discuss the gospel and I was

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kind of preparing to serve a
mission at the time.

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So you're what 16 17 at this
point?

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No I was 20 at this.
Your okay.

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So you were in go a little later
than the standard LDS mission.

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Yeah.
So so you actually figure this

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out as you're preparing to go on
an LDS mission.

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Yeah.
Part part of why I was To be, I

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need to know all this.
These deeper things of the

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Kingdom.
I need to have a comprehensive

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understanding.
The gospel was I said, if I'm

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going to be called to serve a
mission, then I want to be able

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to have the knowledge to be
utilized by the Lord in that

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regard.
So I was I wanted to study so

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that I wouldn't go out there and
be caught off guard and not be

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able to fully use my intellect
as much as it could have if I

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applied myself to prayer and
study.

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So So yeah, so you're preparing
you're doing exactly what the

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LDS church ask you to do, which
is preparing will actually

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probably physically and then
prepare spiritually.

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And in that intellectual desire
in that desire to be

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intellectual and to be able to
defend the church on an

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intellectual basis.
You you actually begin to

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discover some of these
fundamental principles.

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Yeah, so I actually bring it up
with to my bishop and my Bishop

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was actually not very opposed to
He basically said, I was like,

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what are your thoughts on the
atom?

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God Doctrine?
And my Bishop goes, you know,

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just, you know it's that's a
mystery.

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Let's not focus on the Mysteries
but you know, they are there are

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Mysteries but then he was
released a couple weeks later

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and he gave farewell talked, you
know, this you know, is he'd

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been serving for several years
and that calling and his

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Farewell talk, he kind of
mentioned that.

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That more powerful testimony of
the need for supporting each

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other and the need for working
together in that, you know, the

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whole plan of the Gospel is to
uplift others and it's not a

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single effort, you know, it's
not something you do by

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yourself.
And he said that he hopes that

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when he gets back that father,
Adam and Jesus Christ would be

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happy with the work that he has
done.

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And so I was like huh.
That's a interesting way to end

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your testimony to say that
you're you.

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You hope that father, Adam would
be happy with the work that, you

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know, I don't think that
they're, I think so often.

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We look at fundamentalism as
being black and white.

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In the sense of you're either a
fundamentalist or you're a

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member of the LDS church and I
can tell you from personal

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experience, that's not always
the case.

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You're talking to a guy who had
lived, who lived plural marriage

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and still went to the LDS church
and sat in between my two wives.

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For a year and a half, right?
And I remember there was a guy

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in church.
Whoo-hoo, you know, I remember

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he asked me is like, I really
want to ask you what's going on

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there, but I'm really afraid of
the answer.

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And and so, it doesn't surprise
me a bit when I hear stories of

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independent fundamentalists or
people just starting

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fundamentalism, who are still in
the LDS church, right?

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It's not a black or white
proposition for a lot.

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Folks.
Right?

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And some folks will live it for
a while and then you know, or

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study about fundamentalism and
never take the next step or they

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will they'll revert back maybe
to go into the LDS church

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because it's comfortable.
So, there's a whole bunch of

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things going on here and I don't
think it's always as black and

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white as what what we think it
is or what it should be.

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So at what point did you
realize, Okay, I'm going to have

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to make a move, right?
I'm going to, I can't keep going

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to the LDS church now, the
Heat's getting real.

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Well, I actually just kept
studying and, you know, finding

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my reading Michael, Adam by
Ogden crowd, kind of opened the

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door to going on the internet
and trying to find what other

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material is out there.
And so I stumbled upon the some

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of the don't know, if you've
seen the YouTube videos by Kevin

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crowd, I have.
Yep.

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And those are just Great little
tidbits, you know, little five

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or ten minute Talks by Kevin
that go into different

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principles of the Gospel such as
re-baptism or there's one on

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Adam God.
There's one about, I believe

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there's one about Hugh nibblies
experience with Ogden Kraut

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where they, you know, had had a
relationship talking to each

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other about different things and
you know, that just kind of was

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a springboard to discovering all
sorts of other doctrines arrest.

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Of it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm like and I hear

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from a lot of people that, you
know, there's really only two,

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well there's there's obviously
others but the two big doctrines

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that get people into studying
that makes people realize

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there's something missing in the
church.

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And I need to look for more more
information.

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Outside of the church, is the
atom God Doctrine and then the

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other one is plural marriage.
If they start studying the

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history involved with plural
marriage and what happened

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there.
And so I've always appreciated

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The atom God aspect of it
because it's, you know, it's

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about the identity of God.
And that is what Joseph Smith

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said, was one of the first
principles of the Gospel is to

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have an understanding of the
character of God and the

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relationship we sustain to him.
Well.

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So I'll say two things to that
first is.

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And I don't put Catholics very
often but there was a Catholic

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Theologian and I can never
remember who he was, but he had

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said, every heresy begins with a
false idea about out who God is

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the next thing I'll say, is that
Jesus himself said in John, I

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believe it was chapter 17, I
could be wrong where he says,

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this is life eternal to know who
God is.

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To know God and Jesus Christ,
right?

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So the identity of god holds
ramifications that we will we

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will never be able to fully I
think grasp here, right?

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I mean, the ramifications for
understanding who God is

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especially when you start
studying, atom God, it sets the

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pattern for what our whole life
should be.

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So when did you make the exit
out of the LDS church?

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Well, I kind of just started
studying and conversing with

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other like-minded individuals
who are interested in the deeper

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things of the kingdom and it was
kind of a slow eggs.

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I never actually had an official
I was never excommunicated.

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I didn't end up serving a
mission I had some spiritual

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experiences that led me to
decide that wasn't the path for

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me to take but as the more I
began interacting with

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fundamentalist I stopped
attending the LDS church as

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Lately.
Yeah and you know there are some

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rocky stuff with some, familial
relationships over that, who

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wanted who when they, you know,
found out that I was going down

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that path, wanted to go talk to
the bishop and tell him where

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you are at, you know, and
everything.

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And I actually did, I went and
talked to the next, my next

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bishop and I kind of explain my
position with the church and how

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it was kind of, you know,
awkward position would be the

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nicest way to put it.
Sure.

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And, you know, you You did.
I was like if you need to remove

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my name from the records because
I have some different views on

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Authority on Doctrine.
You know, I'd be okay with that

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because I don't want what I do
to negatively affect you and

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what you're doing.
But the bishop goes oh no, don't

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worry about that.
You know, I'm not concerned

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about that, you just, you know,
you do what you feel, you need

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to do and, you know, we're not
going to go down that path.

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So it was kind of a gentle exit.
I know a little Other people

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unfortunately have kind of
harder exits from the church.

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And I know there are some people
who, you know, get into some of

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these doctrines and get into
appreciating them.

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And they can, as you mentioned,
you know, it's not black or

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white thing with fundamentalism
that you can come into.

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People who appreciate, you know,
the deeper doctrines and can

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still remain in the church.
You know, if that's where

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they're comfortable, and that's
where they feel called to be.

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So, you know, and I joined I
ended up Joining a

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fundamentalist sect and and I'm,
you know, I'm grateful, I found

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them but that's not to say that
maybe somebody else's role isn't

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in the church, whose a
fundamentalist, right?

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So that because at some point,
we know that all this stuff is

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coming, right?
I mean, the Lord's going to make

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00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:42,100
all this known and not not
always you going to make it

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00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:44,100
known.
He's going to testify to the

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00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:48,100
veracity of all these
fundamental principles and I

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00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:51,100
Maybe some folks could stay in
the LDS church because they feel

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00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:53,700
called to it because maybe they
can be a buffer for other

230
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:55,600
people, right?
Like they could be the ones to

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00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,300
tell everybody else don't freak
out, right?

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00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:01,400
So, I'm not quick to say if
you're fundamentalist you should

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00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,600
just get out.
That's not, that's not my

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00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,200
position whatsoever.
So yeah, no, I totally see how

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some people could make it work
for me, it couldn't because I

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00:14:11,208 --> 00:14:13,400
tend to look at things very
black and white.

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00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:17,800
And and so for me, it drove me
nuts, being in the LDS Church,

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00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,400
where I would just come home
fuming mad.

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00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,100
In fact, the last word I was in,
I was in a very prominent

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00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:29,300
calling within the ward, right?
And so when I left it caused all

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00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:34,000
sorts of It caused a lot of
questions.

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00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,200
You know what's going on with
Dave?

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00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,100
Did he screw around on his wife?
Did he, you know, all those

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00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:44,500
things but so so you just kind
of slip gently away, which is

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00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,800
probably kind of the best
scenario you can hope for.

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00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,000
If you're going to leave for
most people, I think, are you

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00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,300
married at this time?
I was not married.

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I was still, you know, this was
about age, 20 21 about, okay.

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It was a very it was very much,
a gradual thing.

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00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,500
And I started studying with
fundamentalist because I fat

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00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:09,500
realize that these are people
who have spent many more years

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00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,500
in studying the things of the
kingdom of God.

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Then then I have.
And so I start seeking out

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00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,500
people who had, you know, that
greater light and knowledge and

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00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,900
trying to learn from them and
seeking out.

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00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:25,400
You know, people who specialized
in say the history because I

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00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,200
realized that in order to know a
lot of the deeper Mormon

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00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,800
Doctrine, so you need to kind of
at least East know a little bit

259
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,700
about the history of these
doctrines in order to comprehend

260
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,900
and to appreciate them.
So yeah, that's what I ended up

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doing and you know it was a very
interesting journey.

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00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,300
I feel very blessed for the
people that I've been able to

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00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:49,800
interact with and who have
helped me in my research.

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00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,000
And so, let's let me ask you
this.

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00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,300
When you meet your wife, is she
from a fundamentalist

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00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:56,800
background?
Yes, she is.

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00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,600
She actually my wife actually
does come from a fundamentalist

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00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,300
background Her dad is a
polygamist, okay?

269
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,200
We connected over you know,
similar religious views and that

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00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,300
makes it easy.
Yeah, it's definitely a lot

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00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,200
easier to connect with.
If religion is one of your big

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00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,500
priorities, you need to, it's
going to be a rocky road to

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marry.
Someone who doesn't have those

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00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,400
same priorities.
Yeah.

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And so she kind of actually took
interest in me.

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00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,200
She made her intentions clear,
and look at you go stud.

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00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,800
She made her.
Intentions, clear.

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00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,400
And you know, the rest is
history and we've been blessed

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00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,300
to be married, almost 5 years
now, and we have two little

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00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:43,100
children, so that's awesome.
So, Amber and I had been married

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00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,100
for almost and, and this is
going to be on a subsequent

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00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:50,000
podcast as well, where I go into
my story a little deeper, but I

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00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,300
How I got into fundamentalism, I
do Vin like not just feet-first

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00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:59,600
headfirst right?
I mean, I was, it was, it was

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00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,400
incredible.
Amber had a good friend who had

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00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:09,800
some independent fundamentalist
family members and I remember

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00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:15,000
Amber kept asking me weird
questions like hey if and I

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00:17:15,008 --> 00:17:21,400
won't mention my second wife's
name, she has since left.

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00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:28,300
But for her privacy because I
know she's still a member of the

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00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:32,800
LDS church but she her we'll
just call her Carol.

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00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,300
So Amber and Carol would be
sitting at the table studying

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00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:40,500
and Amber Road, ask me questions
from time to Time like hey of

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00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:43,100
plural marriage came back.
Would you take Carol as a wife?

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00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:46,000
And I'm like that's a dangerous
question.

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00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,500
Be careful how you answer.
David be very careful.

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00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,900
This is a test.
First thing I thought of was

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00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,300
Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars.
It's a trap, right?

298
00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,000
That was my first thought and I
was like, I don't know, it's

299
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:57,700
late.
I go to bed.

300
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:02,000
And one day I remember, I walked
in the house and Amber and Carol

301
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:08,200
were at the table reading, and
They just said, hey, come down

302
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,000
and look at this.
And so, I looked, you know, and

303
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,700
they were in the Doctrine and
Covenants.

304
00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:16,000
And, and she goes, was this say,
and I said, well, it says thus

305
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,600
saith the Lord.
She said, was this saying thus,

306
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,700
saith the Lord, was this a
verily verily.

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00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:23,300
Thus saith when we get this
another four or five times.

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00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,700
And finally, she goes to the
manifesto and she says, what

309
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,300
does this say?
And I said to whom it may

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00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:34,100
concern and she goes,
something's wrong.

311
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,700
I'm like, no, I know.
Is there something wrong?

312
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,700
And from there, we all talked
about it and much like you, I

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00:18:38,708 --> 00:18:43,000
discovered Ogden krauts work and
learned about a solemn Covenant,

314
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,500
right?
And that's how I entered plural.

315
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,200
Marriage.
And then from there, it was it

316
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,900
was through that that I found
out about the rest of

317
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:56,400
fundamentalism.
So yeah, it's funny how we get

318
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:58,000
to this point, right?
I do.

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00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:02,400
Anyone that lie that starts out
in the LDS church that goes to

320
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,700
fundamentalism ever starts out
from the premise of the LDS

321
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:11,000
church has to be wrong.
And I have to go find something

322
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,600
else.
It's always by accident, they're

323
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,500
always LED.
And what I found interesting is

324
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:18,100
that nine times out of ten it
usually goes back to them.

325
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:23,000
Asking a question it did with me
I remember it was hey I was

326
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,700
working really hard to be a
spiritual as I could and I

327
00:19:25,708 --> 00:19:30,500
remember I said, help me help me
approach what Joseph Smith and

328
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:35,600
Brigham Young were and it was
just weeks after that prayer

329
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,900
that all this begins to happen
and so just Be careful what you

330
00:19:39,908 --> 00:19:43,500
pray for.
So yep, that's definitely true

331
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:46,800
in my experience to where you
don't, you don't discover these

332
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,800
things and immediately go.
I don't think most people

333
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,300
discover these things and
immediately want to throw the

334
00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:57,100
church out.
And with me I continue to defend

335
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:59,200
the church.
I thought you know the church

336
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,000
does a lot of good and it was a
gradual thing where I realized

337
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,800
you know, there's so much that
has been lost.

338
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,000
I need to find you know I need
to find people outside of The

339
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,600
church to be able to find, you
know, to be able to understand

340
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,100
and to live some of these
principles because the church

341
00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:16,800
doesn't have all these
principles.

342
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,600
I think you know Adam gone
re-baptism we're probably two of

343
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:26,500
the first ones that nudged me
into the studying you discover

344
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:29,200
you know the different things
with the temple ordinances you

345
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,700
discover you know other lost
practices you know the

346
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:36,700
consecration law of adoption
plural marriage.

347
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,000
There's just you know there's an
To get into the doctrines.

348
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,400
You know you have the all the
different healing rituals.

349
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,900
They had an early Mormonism that
aren't around anymore.

350
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:48,700
L you have the Council of 50
which isn't around anymore you

351
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:53,400
know there's its it can be
intimidating realizing how much

352
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,900
there isn't but it's also very
gratifying to learn what is

353
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:00,400
available there.
You know what?

354
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,600
Let me ask you this, how much
more did the temple ceremony

355
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,100
even in its current form with
the LDS church?

356
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:09,400
How much more did it?
Make sense.

357
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,300
Once you understood Adam God.
So I never actually went through

358
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:14,200
the temple and build his church.
Okay.

359
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,700
I understand what the ritual, I.
I've done a lot of studying of

360
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:23,700
the changes in the ritual, but
that definitely plays a big role

361
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,300
in understanding that I am.
God and vice versa understanding

362
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:29,300
the temple.
Ritual helps them to understand.

363
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,600
Adam God understanding.
Adam God helps understand the

364
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,700
endowment ritual.
Absolutely.

365
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:37,400
Absolutely.
I hope he can get into that.

366
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,700
We're good.
We're gonna get into that.

367
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,900
Yep.
So all right so let's let's dive

368
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:46,200
in here in your estimation
what's the first time even if

369
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,000
it's not a direct.
Hey Adam is God.

370
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,800
Kind of quote?
Where's the first time that we

371
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,200
can look back and really see
Joseph Smith begin to expound on

372
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,600
this idea that perhaps Adam is
our father in Heaven.

373
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:05,700
So, I was actually just
researching the specific issue

374
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,000
recently.
You see it in a lot of

375
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,400
Revelations are in the 1835
Doctrine and Covenants, it seems

376
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,000
that somewhere between 1832 and
1834.

377
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:20,400
Joseph Smith has connected.
The dots that Adam is the

378
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,800
ancient days, which when you
read Daniel chapter 7, the only

379
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,800
place the Ancient of Days is
really mentioned.

380
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,300
In the Bible is in the Book of
Daniel.

381
00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:35,200
This is a Bit more than just a
simple profit figure, he has

382
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,100
10,000 times 10,000 Minister
before him a little bit more

383
00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:42,800
than a prophet and Joseph
identifies, the ancient days as

384
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,500
Adam in that context and he
identifies him as Michael.

385
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:51,200
The Archangel, the prince, he
talks about how he has dominion

386
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,500
over the Human family.
And so there's a lot of stuff in

387
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:59,500
the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants
that really in Joseph, Smith's

388
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:04,100
Revelation sent really laid this
layout higher role of Adam than

389
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:09,300
say the this ignorant individual
who didn't really have a

390
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,100
knowledge of the gospel.
And actually, if you go back

391
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:14,900
even further the seeds of it,
are there in the earliest

392
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:19,200
Revelations that we have Joseph
Smith in the Book of Mormon, and

393
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,400
in the book of Moses, in the
Book of Mormon, we have, you

394
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,500
know, the fall of Adam, instead
of being this screwing up, God's

395
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,100
plan.
It's Adam failed at man might be

396
00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:32,000
in men, are that they might have
joy and you go into The book of

397
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
Moses and Adam has the gospel
given to him.

398
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,700
He's ordained to the priesthood.
He says that thou are after the

399
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:43,300
order of him who is without
beginning of days or end of life

400
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,400
and there's all sorts of great
stuff about Adams role, being a

401
00:23:47,408 --> 00:23:50,700
significant role in those early
revelations in the book of

402
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:55,800
Moses, which is in 1831, so you
definitely have the seeds of it

403
00:23:55,808 --> 00:24:01,400
there in 1831, it develops, even
more by 1835, then by 1830.

404
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,200
Nine Joseph Smith is making some
pretty incredible statements

405
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,700
about Adam when he's teaching
the Quorum of The Twelve in

406
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:10,600
private.
There's what?

407
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Let me stop right there.
For a second.

408
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,500
I've often because I agree with
you 100%.

409
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:22,600
I've often wondered if Joseph
even you what this was leading

410
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,000
to write because Joseph is
simply translating at that

411
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,300
point, right?
When we talk about the or or

412
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:33,700
gaining revelation That point.
And so you wonder how much he

413
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:38,600
wrote down without fully
comprehending it because as as

414
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,500
we look up and this is one of
the things I love about Joseph

415
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:45,300
Smith is, I think you can see
his progression, although it's

416
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:51,500
significantly faster than the
rest of the rest of the church.

417
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:54,800
You can tell that there's a
progression that he's learning

418
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,100
right along with the rest of the
Saints.

419
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,400
You know what I mean?
Absolute you.

420
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,700
You get that same impression
that that even though Joseph,

421
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:08,300
revealing this that maybe Joseph
himself isn't quite putting all

422
00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:11,100
the pieces together kill about
eight till about the Nauvoo

423
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:12,900
period.
Yep, absolutely.

424
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,400
Yeah, I definitely agree with
that.

425
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,600
I do think that it's a learning
process for Joseph Smith himself

426
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,800
as he begins to, he's receiving
all these Revelations and he's

427
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,800
doing so much of the time.
He's both ecclesiastical Church

428
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,200
leader but also a community
leader as well where he is

429
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,500
building.
Cities and helping immigration,

430
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,200
and he's involved with a lot of
stuff and not only that, you

431
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,300
have the persecutions, you have
the conflicts that they're

432
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:40,000
dealing with.
And so I agree that there's

433
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,100
definitely, you know, he's got a
lot that he's doing and probably

434
00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:47,300
took a bit, you know, took a
little time for the funeral.

435
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,700
Probably had to go back and read
the revelations that he that was

436
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:53,600
revealed through him to probably
process it.

437
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,600
All concerning Joseph Smith, I
want to say this, I when I was

438
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:01,600
Back East.
I was fortunate enough to work

439
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,700
for a university, and I won't
mention, which one because I

440
00:26:04,708 --> 00:26:07,800
don't know if it's something
that the professor would would

441
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,100
appreciate me, Sharon online.
But I took a course, at a pretty

442
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:17,900
prestigious University.
And I took a course about

443
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:21,800
Jacksonian America, because I
was a surveyor for the

444
00:26:21,808 --> 00:26:24,800
University, I worked with him,
our company worked with them,

445
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,700
they gave me some discounts and
classes and so, This professor,

446
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:34,500
who was teaching, this course,
in Jacksonian America, you can't

447
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,300
really cover Jacksonian America
without covering the Latter-Day

448
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:39,400
Saints, right?
The beginnings of the movement

449
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,100
and Upstate New York.
And he said, and I'll never

450
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:44,600
forget this.
I was sitting in class, and I

451
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,100
was probably the only Mormon in
there because we get pretty

452
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:51,700
sparse east of the Mississippi.
He said something to the effect

453
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,100
to this effect, which was if
Joseph, when you encounter

454
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:58,600
Joseph Smith, you have to come
too.

455
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:03,000
To one of two conclusions, he
either was what he said he was,

456
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,600
or he is the most raw genius
that the United States ever

457
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,900
produced.
And after class, I asked him, I

458
00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:11,000
said.
So, which one do you think it

459
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,200
is?
He says, I don't ask that

460
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,800
question, right?
He didn't he didn't want the

461
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,900
answer, but I think it is
impressive because I don't think

462
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,800
the LDS church these days have
the same vision that Joseph

463
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,400
Smith had.
Right in the sense that well,

464
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,000
here, let me ask you this, how
many Chapels did Joseph Smith

465
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,400
Builder?
Hmm, that's a good question.

466
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,700
I really don't know if I have
the answer to that snot 10.

467
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,200
It's not five, it's not three,
it's zero Joseph.

468
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,400
Smith's Vision was all about
community and Temple work.

469
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,500
And we in the LDS church we've
missed that somewhere, right?

470
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:57,200
That we don't build community
like we used to Zion was a real

471
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,300
thing.
So back to the original point I

472
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:03,800
think Joseph is learning just as
the rest of the Saints are

473
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,400
because he is so busy right.
He's got this massive vision of

474
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,800
what Zion is supposed to be and
the Lord has said you got to

475
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,600
roll it.
Forthright it all starts through

476
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,300
you, you got to go and so I
imagine he's just as busy as we

477
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:18,800
are in our lives.
More.

478
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,200
So because like you said, not
only is he in the business of

479
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,200
building Community, but now he's
got converts coming in, they're

480
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,900
hungry, they need fed
persecutions.

481
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:31,100
The whole ball of wax, right?
So yeah, I really do think he

482
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,300
he's learning right along the
same time, we are.

483
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,000
All right?
So let's go forward. 1839, what

484
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,400
do you happen to have teachings
of the Prophet Joseph Smith on

485
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,500
you because I have excerpts of
the quotes right behind you,

486
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:49,800
perfect.
You've got So if you go to page

487
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,800
157, I don't you.
I think you have some of those

488
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,000
pages may not correspond, feel
free to get rid of that clip in

489
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,600
there that paper clip, he's
thumbing through there.

490
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,000
Now folks, it's there we go.
You got her.

491
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,100
Yeah.
So the page numbers are a little

492
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:09,100
different but fortunately you
had it, right?

493
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:14,800
You had it marked.
So So this is, this is in July

494
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,300
of 1839, this is private
instruction to the Quorum of The

495
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:21,500
Twelve that Willard Richards,
right, sit down, and they take

496
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,600
it with them to England.
So, this is showing that the 12

497
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,500
are receiving private
instruction from Joseph, Smith

498
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:31,100
that before he begins to reveal
these kinds of things to the

499
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:33,700
Saints publicly.
And so, and he gives some

500
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:37,900
instruction on atom.
That is pretty interesting when

501
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,300
you read it.
So he says Daniel.

502
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,800
Let's see.
The Priestess of this would be

503
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,900
paid.
This is normally page 157 and

504
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:50,700
teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith.

505
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,200
The priesthood was first given
to Adam, he obtained, the first

506
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000
presidency and held the keys of
it from generation to

507
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,800
generation.
He obtained it in the creation

508
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,700
before the world was formed as
in Genesis 1:26, 27 28.

509
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:08,500
So if you stop right there, he's
saying that Adam held the keys

510
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,400
even before the creation, the
spiritual creation of man in

511
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,800
Genesis After one.
So that's that's a significant

512
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,200
thing right there.
He had Dominion given him over

513
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,000
every living creature.
He is Michael the Archangel

514
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,100
spoken of in the scriptures then
did Noah, who is Gabriel.

515
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,000
He stands next authority to Adam
in the priesthood.

516
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,900
He was called of God to this
office and was father of all

517
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:34,500
living in this day.
And in his day and to him was

518
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,600
given the Dominion.
These men held keys first on

519
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,200
Earth and then in heaven.
So you gotta wonder you saying

520
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,000
that Adam Held the priesthood
before the creation.

521
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,600
But he held his priesthood first
on Earth and then in heaven.

522
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,900
So that's in my opinion.
That's him directly staying to

523
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:56,000
Adam had received his priesthood
Authority on a previous Earth.

524
00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:00,300
And what year did you say that
was from 1839.

525
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,100
Okay, so we're Nauvoo period
now.

526
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,300
Yep, very beginning of the novel
period.

527
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,000
So he goes on to say the
priesthood is an everlasting

528
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,200
principal and existed with God
from eternity and will to

529
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,500
Eternity without beginning of
days or end of years.

530
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:15,400
The keys have to be brought from
Heaven.

531
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Whenever the gospel is sent,
when they are revealed from

532
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Heaven, It Is by Adams
Authority.

533
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:25,400
So, that's another strong
statement about Adam from Joseph

534
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,000
Smith, he goes To say Daniel and
his seventh chapter speaks to

535
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,100
the ancient days.
He means the oldest man.

536
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:34,100
Our Father, Adam Michael, he
will call his children together

537
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:36,800
and holy counsel with them, to
prepare them for the coming of

538
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,000
the son of man.
He Adam is the father of the

539
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,200
Human family and presides over
the spirits of all men and all

540
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,100
that have had the keys must
stand before him.

541
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:49,900
In this Grand Council, this may
take place, but for some of us,

542
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,100
leave the stage of action, the
son of man, stands before him,

543
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:56,600
and there is given him glory and
Dominion, Adam.

544
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,000
Rivers up his stewardship to
Christ that which was delivered

545
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,400
to him as holding the keys of
the universe, but retains his

546
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,600
standing as head of the Human
family and you have that all

547
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600
underlined, which is great.
That's a very key statement.

548
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,600
So when you think about that, he
Adam is getting the priesthood

549
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,900
to Christ and he's saying the
keys of the universe.

550
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:21,100
Are this, the priest authority
to Adam held and that the

551
00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:23,700
universe is a very big place.
Yeah.

552
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:27,500
Yeah.
No it and That's the thing with

553
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:31,100
Joseph Smith, right?
And even once I think Joseph

554
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:36,900
Smith understands Adams
position, he's very careful

555
00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:40,600
right to not.
Let this get out or let me

556
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,800
rephrase that he's careful who
he passes along cute, right.

557
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,900
I believe it was Joseph who said
that?

558
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,100
I could reveal a lot of things
to you guys and I'm paraphrasing

559
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:51,000
here.
A lot of things to you but you

560
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,900
will shatter like glass, yep?
Right.

561
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:56,300
And so, he's got to be very
careful how he gives us the

562
00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:59,500
other thing.
Is, there's probably a sense of

563
00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:05,100
I can't just turn these loose on
the world, because they tried to

564
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:10,000
kill me over the Book of Mormon.
What are they going to do?

565
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,900
This is just additional
scripture.

566
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,400
What are they going to do?
When I up and their ideas of the

567
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,400
very deity?
They claim to worship?

568
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,300
Yeah, they would come after him
like crazy.

569
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,600
So he is he you'll never see
Joseph Smith.

570
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,500
Come right out.
I think he did.

571
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:31,400
Let me rephrase that.
I know he did.

572
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:34,000
I can't prove it, but I know he
did.

573
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,700
He never comes right out in a
public meeting and says this is

574
00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:41,700
it?
Let me break down who Adam is

575
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:43,800
for you.
Adam is your heavenly father

576
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,800
because he just doesn't have
that opportunity.

577
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,000
He does seem to pass this along
to a lot of other people.

578
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,200
So go ahead.
Sorry.

579
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:54,000
Yep.
I'm actually glad you said that

580
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,800
in another quote that fits right
along with that where Joe The

581
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,800
Smith said that I could keep a
secret till doomsday.

582
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,000
So he was someone who could have
things revealed to him and keep

583
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,200
it locked up.
You know, he begins teaching

584
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,199
doctrines of exaltation in the
early 1840s and a lot of these

585
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,699
things, he doesn't go public
with until 1844 because the

586
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:17,100
apostates are starting to
criticize him for these

587
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:19,100
doctrines.
And so he goes here, let you,

588
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,600
I'll let you hear it from my own
mouth and here as it's inspired

589
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,699
by the Lord.
So, and as you said, you know

590
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:29,300
Joseph is Careful with how he
says things, there are some

591
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:31,900
other statements.
He says, continuing in this page

592
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:34,600
to other statements.
That if you read them carefully,

593
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,000
they fit perfectly with Adam
God.

594
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,600
So he going on.
He says the father called all

595
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,199
Spirits before him at the
creation man and organize them.

596
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,000
He Adam is the head and was told
to multiply the keys were first

597
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,199
given to him.
And by him to others, he will

598
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:53,199
have to give an account of his
stewardship and they to him.

599
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:56,100
So, the father called all the
spirits before.

600
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:59,700
Matt, the crash, A of man, he
atom is the head and was told to

601
00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:04,200
multiply you can read that as,
you know, referencing Madam as

602
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,500
the creation, or you could read
that as referencing Adam as the

603
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,700
father, depending on what
perspective you're looking at

604
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:12,300
that.
And I think you're right, and I

605
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:15,600
think Joseph went out of his way
to make those kind of statements

606
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:19,800
with that whole idea of that
whole principle of Mind Of Those

607
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:26,300
Who Have Eyes to see and ears to
hear We'll pick this up, right?

608
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:30,800
And then I can just imagine that
Brigham sitting at the prophets

609
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,400
feet, hearing this and Brigham's
wheel, starting to turn and he

610
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,400
goes wait a second and then
finds Joseph later in the

611
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,000
evening and be like, It's bound
that for me a little bit.

612
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,300
What did you mean here?
And then that's when that's kind

613
00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:51,000
of probably the signal much
because that's the way that our

614
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,700
heavenly father works with us,
right?

615
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:56,000
We ask a question that shows
them a level of spiritual

616
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,700
maturity in which God is ready
to pass that information on.

617
00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:02,400
I'm sure.
Joseph operated probably pretty

618
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,700
similarly in the sense that he
waited on these deeper things,

619
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:10,700
he waited for people to approach
him and then he said, okay you

620
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:12,600
asked Junior ready for the
answer?

621
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:16,400
Yeah, that's a good point.
And so, this last statement from

622
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,800
this July, 1839 teachings on
priesthood by the prophet, as he

623
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,300
says, how have we come at the
priesthood in the last days, it

624
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,900
came down down in regular
succession, Peter, James, and

625
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:31,600
John, had it given to them and
they gave it to others.

626
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:35,300
Christ is the great high priest
Adam next.

627
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,200
And so, if you read that, some
will take that saying.

628
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,400
See Christ is the great high
priest and Adam is the And great

629
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,200
high priest.
But if you read that statement

630
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,400
context, Joseph Smith is tracing
how they came to the Melchizedek

631
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,800
priesthood in the last days.
And so, he says it came down and

632
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,000
regular succession, Peter,
James, and John had a given to

633
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,300
them, and they gave it to
others.

634
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,900
So, Oliver in cowdrey, received
it from Peter, James, and John,

635
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:00,700
then who do Peter James and
John, who did Peter James, and

636
00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:03,800
John, get their priesthood from
Christ, the great high priest,

637
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,000
and then he goes and on and
says, Adam necks.

638
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,700
So he's tracing his priesthood
from Joseph and Oliver to Peter

639
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:15,500
James and John to Christ to Adam
but you wouldn't get that, you

640
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:18,100
know, you can it like you said
what the other one you can read

641
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:22,300
it either way well, but to be
fair to, I think this shows how

642
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,800
Joseph's mine is really working,
right?

643
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:28,900
He is, he is formulating that
lineage the same way.

644
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:33,900
It is, in ancient scripture,
it's very Hebrew in its text in

645
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:37,600
the sense that he got it from
him think of the bagasse

646
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,700
statements in the in the Old
Testament, right?

647
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:43,700
Working your way, back to the
source.

648
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:46,900
And and I think I think he's
doing that same thing right

649
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:51,500
there.
So Joseph, he talked about King

650
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:54,300
followed a little bit, right?
Because I think that's really

651
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,200
The Benchmark.
And unless you can think of

652
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:01,100
another one where all the sudden
all these other statements about

653
00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:06,200
Adam in conjunction with King
Follett, That's really the

654
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,600
crowning moment for Joseph Smith
as far as the atom God.

655
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,500
Dr. Agree.
Or disagree on that.

656
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,100
There's a couple of things that
lead up to the king fought if

657
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:15,300
you want to get it.
Let's no.

658
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:17,300
Let's let's do that.
Let's follow that.

659
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:18,700
I jumped the gun there.
No.

660
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:20,600
You're totally good because
that's where a lot of people

661
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,600
realize is that we can fall out
discourse lace, all of these

662
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,900
seeds for what is going on.
But Joseph actually, after he

663
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:30,500
gives that private instruction
to the Quorum of The Twelve in

664
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:35,900
1839 at the October 1840
conference he again makes Strong

665
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:39,800
statements about Adam, they'll
probably not as strong as in the

666
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,800
private meeting of the twelve.
He makes some interesting

667
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,300
statements about Adam and I'm
just going to read one of those

668
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:49,400
girl quick.
So commencing with Adam.

669
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,400
Who's the first man who's spoken
of and Daniel is being the

670
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,300
ancient days or in other words,
the first and oldest of all the

671
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:59,400
great grand progenitor of whom,
it is said in another place, he

672
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,300
is Michael because he was the
first and father of all not only

673
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:06,400
by progenitor.
But Was the first to hold the

674
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,800
spiritual blessings to whom was
made known the ordinances for

675
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,900
the Salvation of his posterity
unto the end.

676
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,500
And to whom Christ was first
revealed and through whom Christ

677
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:20,900
has been revealed from heaven
and will continue to be revealed

678
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:23,900
from henceforth.
So that's a pretty interesting

679
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:28,900
statement saying that Christ is
revealed from Heaven by Adam and

680
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:33,600
some people will correlate that
with God the father in multiple

681
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,200
places in The New Testament and
to Joseph Smith saying, this is

682
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,200
my beloved Son, hear ye him.
So that's could be seen as

683
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:46,900
important atom God, statement,
right there and going on.

684
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:50,200
He says Adam holds the keys of
the dispensation of the fullness

685
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,000
of times, IE the dispensation of
all the times that have been or

686
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,100
will be revealed through him
from the beginning to Christ.

687
00:39:57,100 --> 00:40:00,800
And from Christ to the end of
the dispensations that are to be

688
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,300
revealed.
So he's laying out Adam as

689
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,000
presiding over all the
Sensations of the Gospel from

690
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,900
the beginning of time to the end
of time and the one to whom

691
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,400
through whom Christ is revealed.
And so he's laying out this

692
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,800
exalted view of Adam at this
General Conference sermon, he

693
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,800
doesn't have it published.
That might be seen as

694
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,000
significant.
This instruct, this is

695
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,400
instructions on priesthood at
the October 1840 conference and

696
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,700
they said that the person who
watched him Joseph was busy or

697
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:34,800
sick and he wasn't able to
actually go and do.

698
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Over a long loud speech to the
congregation, so he said, I will

699
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,400
dictate sermon to be read on
priesthood.

700
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,100
And so the person who was the
Scribe said that, he saw Joseph,

701
00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:49,500
just filled with the Holy Ghost
and just lay out the sermon on

702
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:53,400
priesthood and it's a really
great sermon and that is

703
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,500
definitely planting the first
seeds of Adam, God publicly in

704
00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:00,400
the years of his hearers and not
boo.

705
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:05,200
So, if you continue after that,
I want to get to the King

706
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,200
fought.
Because I like I said, I'm

707
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,600
really excited about the king
fall at this court says, well,

708
00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:14,800
there's another place where
Joseph begins to teach about

709
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,200
atoms, important role regarding
the Human family and that is the

710
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,700
May 4th 1842 meeting where
Joseph first reveals the

711
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:26,400
endowment to his Close
Associates and probably the

712
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,700
endowments, a whole other
subject and of itself.

713
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:32,600
But Joseph in that meeting.
According to what Willard

714
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,900
Richards wrote an account of it
in.

715
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:38,200
Five, you know, less than a year
after Joseph's death, he went

716
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,900
back and was finishing the
history of the church and he

717
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:45,600
wrote that, that Joseph laid
out, the order pertaining to the

718
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400
Ancient of Days and all those
plans and principles, you know

719
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,200
which are necessary to abide
with the Elohim and come up in

720
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,500
the presence of the church, the
first born in heaven.

721
00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:59,200
And so what's interesting there
is he calls it the order

722
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,700
pertaining to the ancient days.
And so it's father Adams order,

723
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:06,900
he's kind of She ate them in
this understanding, that there's

724
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:10,600
this great priest to Jenny ology
that goes back to Father, Adam,

725
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:15,100
who stands as our father and our
God in the priesthood in so far

726
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:18,700
as he is the righteous
patriarchy over the Human family

727
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,900
and probably Pratt writes about
that.

728
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:26,300
And in detail year after
Joseph's death, he writes

729
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,500
article and he explains that
this is the celestial family

730
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:34,000
organization if I'm going to
read that quote.

731
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,900
Sure where he Means what this is
he says so this is in the

732
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:44,600
millennial star Volume 5, May 18
45 page 191 first, his most

733
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,200
gracious and venerable Majesty
King Adam with his Royal concert

734
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,000
consort Queen Eve will appear at
the head of the whole great

735
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,800
family of the redeemed and we
crowned in their midst as a king

736
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,000
and a priest Forever.
After the order of the Son of

737
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,900
God, they will be arrayed in
garments as white as snow and

738
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:02,800
will as white as snow and will
take their seats on.

739
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,900
Thrones in the midst of the
paradise of God on Earth.

740
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:08,500
Earth to Reign forever and ever.
While thousands of thousands

741
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:11,600
stand before him and Ten
Thousand Times, Ten Thousand

742
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,400
Minister unto him.
So that's again, going back to

743
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,200
the Daniel chapter 7 and so they
then probably view Pratt rights.

744
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,300
And if you'll receive it, this
is the order of the ancient

745
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:25,000
days, the kingdom prepared and
organized to meet Jesus.

746
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,000
When he comes this venerable,
patriarchy and Sovereign will

747
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,300
hold the lawful jurisdiction
over able.

748
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:33,300
Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac.
Jacob, Joseph, Moses the

749
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:37,200
prophets Apostles, and It's of
all ages and dispensations who

750
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,800
will all reverence and Obey him
as their venerable father and

751
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,800
lawful Sovereign.
So that there is him partly

752
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,100
prattling out what that meant,
when Joseph laid out, the order

753
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,600
pertaining to the ancient days.
That is father.

754
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,700
Had Adams Family Kingdom, which
is all of us, right?

755
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:59,100
I know if you have any thoughts
on that, you know, I think it

756
00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:02,600
just it continues to show that
Joseph Smith.

757
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:06,800
He's Almost giving it to you,
right?

758
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,200
He's like here.
Do your homework, think about

759
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,000
these things, Ponder these
things, right?

760
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,800
But you can almost feel he wants
to give the full thing but he

761
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,100
knows he can't write.
He wants to share with everybody

762
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:30,100
the things that he found.
And he just can't yet because he

763
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:33,900
knows it's detrimental, not just
to his own well-being but the

764
00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:37,300
well-being of every saint, that
follows him at that point.

765
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:46,000
And again, he goes, It's like
somebody who is is almost saying

766
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,200
the words in the game of
Charades, right?

767
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,300
Just to get you to get it.
And and I get that feeling every

768
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,700
time, I read things by Joseph
Smith, like things you took that

769
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:58,500
I had highlighted in my
teachings, of the Prophet Joseph

770
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:00,600
Smith.
He's given it to you.

771
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,800
You just got to stop and think
for a second and then it'll

772
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,200
click.
Yep.

773
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,000
Absolutely.
So, Joseph Smith is, he's

774
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,700
beginning to lay this.
Foundation for the Saints.

775
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:14,800
Because in order to really
comprehend Adam God, there are

776
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,900
actually some other doctrines
that you need to kind of get in

777
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:23,200
order to have that foundation in
order to appreciate it like, you

778
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,000
know, Eternal progression,
right?

779
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,600
The the opportunity that we have
to become as God is.

780
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:31,000
Yep.
When I, when I, when I go to

781
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,600
layout the different components
of the atom, God Doctrine, I

782
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:38,200
realized are actually probably
probably four or five different

783
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,700
other doctrines that need to
really be laid out to fully

784
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:44,400
appreciate it.
And Joseph Smith is beginning to

785
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,000
lay those out in the Nauvoo
period as he's, you know,

786
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,900
preparing the Saints to
understand the full nature of

787
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:54,700
our relationship to God, and the
full doctrine of what exaltation

788
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:57,700
actually entails.
So, just one quote that I love

789
00:45:57,700 --> 00:45:58,500
that.
I don't see.

790
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:03,200
A lot of people use a lot is on
February 9th, 1841.

791
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,100
This is in words of Joseph
Smith.

792
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:07,800
He probably find it in the
Joseph Smith papers as well.

793
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:12,400
Joseph preached, this Adam did
Commit sin in eating the fruit

794
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:15,200
for God, decreed that he should
eat and fall.

795
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,400
But in compliance with the
decree he should die only, he

796
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,100
should die.
Was the original saying of the

797
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:25,500
Lord and originalism brackets?
So, what's interesting there is

798
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:27,300
he saying that he's teaching the
Saints?

799
00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,100
He says, hey Adam wasn't this
bad guy when he partook in the

800
00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:31,400
fruits?
He was.

801
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:34,000
And as he was teaching,
obviously, as he laid out the

802
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,300
endowment ceremony that this was
a necessary thing for the

803
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:41,200
progression of mankind.
And it was not the This terrible

804
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,900
thing that Adam did but that he
was only acting in compliance

805
00:46:44,900 --> 00:46:48,600
with the what had been revealed
to him and the circumstances he

806
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:53,100
had been placed in and that will
later connect back to when

807
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:57,100
Brigham Young in a section that
is no longer available to the

808
00:46:57,100 --> 00:47:00,400
LDS in the temple ceremony.
And that is the lecture at the

809
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,000
veil.
Because if you if you trace that

810
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,600
back, when Brigham puts that
fourth that is very much the

811
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:13,300
idea of the lecture at the Veil.
Okay, so when you get into these

812
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:17,100
foundational doctrines about
God, that really make the atom

813
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,100
God Doctrine makes so much
sense.

814
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,300
Probably the first thing that
Joseph Smith began to really

815
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:25,900
publicly reveal an Abu though.
His Revelations teach again as

816
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:29,700
early as 1830 one is the
understanding that God the

817
00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:33,500
father has a body and this is
something that he actually

818
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:36,300
probably was teaching it earlier
than that because there's a

819
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:42,200
statement by non-mormon in 1836
named Truman All who said they

820
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,600
the Mormons contend that the
god, worshiped by the

821
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,400
Presbyterians and all other
sectarians is no better than a

822
00:47:48,408 --> 00:47:50,900
wooden God.
They believe the true God is a

823
00:47:50,908 --> 00:47:54,800
material being composed of body
and parts and that when the

824
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,900
crater formed Adam in his own
image, he made him in the size

825
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:01,900
and shape of God himself.
So that's pretty interesting.

826
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:04,900
And there's almost an identical
statement like that in the king

827
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:08,000
Follett discourse about the
creation of Adam.

828
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,700
Yep.
And in Nauvoo, Joseph began.

829
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:14,100
Into really preach this to the
Saints in public sermons,

830
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,000
January 5th, 1841.
He said that, which is without

831
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,200
body parts, and passions is
nothing.

832
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,800
There is no other God in heaven,
but that God, which has a Flesh

833
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,500
and Bones.
And then again, the king fought

834
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:31,600
discourse, which is, you know,
he's laying the foundations

835
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,700
here.
He said, quote, if the veil were

836
00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:36,600
rent today in the great God who
holds the world and its orbit,

837
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,900
who upholds, all worlds, and all
things by his power were to make

838
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:42,500
himself visible.
I say, if you were to see him

839
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:46,700
today, you would see him it like
a man and form, like yourself in

840
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:50,500
person image and very form as a
man, for Adam, was created in

841
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:53,800
the very fashion image and
likeness of God and received

842
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,200
instruction from him and walk.
Talked and conversed with them

843
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,800
as one man talks and communes
with another.

844
00:49:01,100 --> 00:49:04,600
And so that's the king Follett
discourse, that was April 7th,

845
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:09,300
1844 and he's giving this
discourse in response to the

846
00:49:09,300 --> 00:49:13,200
anti Mormons who are saying look
what these heresies Joseph,

847
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,100
Smith's, teaching and Joseph's
like here.

848
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:17,600
I will preach it and not only
will I preach, I will tell it to

849
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,200
you from the Bible.
He says, I'm going to prove that

850
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,900
God the Father once was a man
like us and I can prove it from

851
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,400
the Bible and And he quotes
different scriptures, you can

852
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:32,200
use to support that and so that
leads up to the next key

853
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,100
Doctrine to understanding the
atom God Doctrine is the

854
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:40,400
doctrine of a plurality of God's
which Joseph Smith darts to

855
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,600
touch on that in the king
fought.

856
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,900
This course he doesn't really
get to fully lay it out in the

857
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:48,100
king Follett discourse.
It's the his sermon in the Grove

858
00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:52,900
on June 16th. 1844, this is his
last doctoral sermon the only a

859
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:55,400
few weeks before I believe a
week or so before.

860
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,900
Death.
He gives a sermon on the

861
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:02,900
plurality of Gods.
Let's see.

862
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:07,900
The other thing that that I love
about the doctrines that Joseph

863
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:10,200
is laying out and especially
deeper.

864
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:15,300
Once once Adam God is really
expounded, is this fact that

865
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:19,500
unlike what a lot of the
Catholics taught will, all the

866
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:25,200
Protestants taught, our flesh
isn't a curse now, there's

867
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,800
certain appetites that come with
it that we have to Bridle but

868
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,700
our human, our Humanity can be
Holy, right?

869
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,200
And I think that's a big
takeaway from what Joseph saying

870
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,800
here, and it's a big takeaway
from the atom.

871
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,200
God Doctrine.
Is that your Humanity does not

872
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,400
have to be carnal and devilish
your Humanity?

873
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:49,500
Even in the flesh can be and
should be holy.

874
00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:51,700
Yeah.
And that totally goes with a

875
00:50:51,707 --> 00:50:54,500
correct understanding of the
Fall rather than a total

876
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:57,500
depravity view of.
You know what Adam did is,

877
00:50:57,500 --> 00:51:01,100
basically cursed all mankind to
basically be doomed to Hell.

878
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:03,400
Yep.
No, that wasn't what the purpose

879
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,000
of the fall of Adam was for.
It was to give us opposition and

880
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,900
trials and all things and by you
know experiencing that and

881
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:14,800
learning to overcome that we
become stronger, more experience

882
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,100
and more.
Holy in that process, I think it

883
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:21,900
also puts into a light.
What, when you think about that,

884
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:26,100
that makes Heavenly Father
statement to Joseph Smith in the

885
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:30,200
Grove where he says, they draw
near to me with their lips, but

886
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,800
their hearts are far from me.
Because this whole time through

887
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,200
Christendom, the vast majority
of the 2,000 years of

888
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:45,200
Christendom.
We have put Adam up as a

889
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,300
cautionary Tale.
Right.

890
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:52,700
And in so doing our hearts have
been withdrawn from our father.

891
00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:56,100
So that that statement that
Heavenly Father makes in the

892
00:51:56,100 --> 00:52:00,300
Grove to Joseph Smith, I think
it's far more poignant than we

893
00:52:00,300 --> 00:52:03,300
could ever imagine.
Can you imagine your father

894
00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:04,100
right?
You have a daughter?

895
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:07,000
Yep.
Can you imagine if at some

896
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,600
future time, your grandchildren
looked at you the way that

897
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,100
Christendom looked at Adam, it's
heartbreaking, right?

898
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,400
And that's it.
And once I understood the The

899
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,000
atom God Doctrine.
I looked at that statement that

900
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:27,100
was made by our heavenly father.
Adam Michael to Joseph Smith in

901
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,400
the Grove is truly
heartbreaking.

902
00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:32,800
They draw close to me with their
lips, but their hearts are so

903
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,100
far from me, it's almost
heartbreaking.

904
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:39,300
Anyway, go ahead sorry.
Yeah, no, thank you not allowed

905
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:40,900
me to find the quote, I want.
Yeah.

906
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,900
So, this is from the sermon of
the Grove.

907
00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:46,400
The last doctoral, sermon by
Joseph Smith.

908
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,000
Which you can find in teachings
of the Prophet Joseph Smith or

909
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,300
you can find it online.
There's plenty of different

910
00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:56,400
places that have it.
So this is Joseph Smith saying

911
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,100
if Abraham and reasoned thus if
Jesus Christ was the son of God

912
00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:03,200
and the Apostle John discovered
that God the father of Jesus

913
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,400
Christ.
Had a father, you may suppose

914
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,800
that he had a father also and
where was there ever a son

915
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,200
without a father?
And where was there ever a

916
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,100
father?
Without first being a son,

917
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,200
wherever did a tree or anything
spring into existence without

918
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,800
progenitor?
Everything comes from this way.

919
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,100
Paul said that which is Earthly
is in the likeness of that,

920
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:25,100
which is hidden Heavenly hence
of Jesus had a father.

921
00:53:25,300 --> 00:53:27,400
Can we not believe that he had a
father?

922
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,600
Also, I despise the idea of
being scared to death at such a

923
00:53:30,607 --> 00:53:34,400
Doctrine for the Bible is full
of it and the verse that Joseph

924
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,500
Smith, love to quote is where
Jesus said the son does nothing

925
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:40,100
of himself, but what he has seen
the father do.

926
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:43,600
And he also makes mention of,
you know, in First Corinthians

927
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,400
where Paul says, there are
Lords, many and gods many both

928
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,700
in heaven and on Earth.
Earth and, you know, there's and

929
00:53:49,700 --> 00:53:53,600
Aces but to us, there's one God,
the father and one Lord, Jesus

930
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,900
Christ.
And the early Christians,

931
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:59,400
understood that as referencing
that there are, you know, if

932
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,000
there's, if they're in heaven,
they are not false gods.

933
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,500
There are real gods in heaven,
and that's what Joseph Smith

934
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:07,300
was.
Pointing out it soft.

935
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:12,300
I find it often funny that that
for the vast majority of again

936
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:18,300
Christendom we have said that
the old and Testament are

937
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:22,200
strictly monotheistic in their
approach.

938
00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:25,500
You just have to read the Old
Testament to understand that

939
00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:31,400
that's not the case right while
we as Mormons and I would say

940
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:37,300
Jews and Christians, probably
Islam as well, recognized the

941
00:54:37,300 --> 00:54:42,800
supremacy of one God.
That's not to say that it's

942
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,900
completely monotheistic.
Yeah, absolutely.

943
00:54:47,300 --> 00:54:50,900
And so once you understand that
God is a man that there's

944
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:54,000
multiple gods, you also have
Joseph Smith playing out about

945
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,300
the same time and the King
Follett discourse that we can

946
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:00,100
become gods.
That we have to learn how to

947
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:03,500
advance from degree degree in
from exaltation.

948
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:07,100
Doing exaltation, until we
attain to the resurrection from

949
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:11,900
the dead and he said that we are
just as eternal Our beings as

950
00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:15,300
God is in his.
And so he is laying out, he's

951
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:19,100
bridging, this Gap.
Instead of this unbridgeable gap

952
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:22,500
of mankind, being this awful
like this pet of God, he's

953
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:25,400
saying, know the scriptures
teach that we have a literal

954
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:30,000
parent-child relationship with
God and that we can become like

955
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,900
him.
And so in his private counsels,

956
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:35,700
Joseph Smith is laying out a lot
more of this than what he is

957
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:38,800
doing publicly and he's teaching
about there being a heavenly

958
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,600
mother that We are the spirit
children of God and he's also

959
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,400
teaching and we can show it in
the records that he, that we are

960
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,000
the physical offspring of God as
well.

961
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,600
And that is the first really key
part of the atom.

962
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,900
God.
Doctrine is to understand that

963
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:59,200
God is not only the father of
our spirits, but also the father

964
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:00,900
of our bodies.
That's right.

965
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:05,700
And and I want to hit on that
subject later on in the podcast,

966
00:56:05,700 --> 00:56:08,400
when we start talking about the
ramifications of the doctrine

967
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,000
and the ramifications for
suppressing, Doctor.

968
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:15,200
So I think we've laid out at
this point, or I should say

969
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:20,800
you've laid out at this one.
Jacob, a really good series of

970
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:26,100
evidences that point to the fact
that Joseph did understand this

971
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:30,500
Joseph, even tried to teach this
even on the macro level.

972
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:36,800
And this was something that was
given to him from god.

973
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,100
So let's let's move forward.
Now past the, the Nauvoo period.

974
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:45,200
Can I point out one?
Other evidence, we prohibit

975
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:47,700
private councils and so this is
really exciting.

976
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:50,500
When I first read this when the
Council of 50 minutes were

977
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:54,400
released in 2016, I was going
through the minutes, trying to

978
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,500
see what new information we can
get about.

979
00:56:56,500 --> 00:57:00,300
Joseph Smith's teachings and
practices and Abu and I was

980
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:04,800
really pleasantly.
Is and I still happy to see this

981
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,200
quote that there actually is a
record of Joseph Smith teaching

982
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,600
about the nature of God in his
private counsel of the Council

983
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,500
of 50 in this is two days before
the king Follett discourse.

984
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,200
And this totally confirms what
one of Joseph, Smith's friends

985
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,700
said that Joseph was teaching in
the Council of 50.

986
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:26,000
So been Jeff Johnson in his
biography said that Joseph was

987
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,700
teaching in the Council of 50
that that you would teach, where

988
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:31,600
man will be taught to know his
original.

989
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:35,300
Ian and how to govern himself.
And that all will come to the

990
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:38,500
knowledge of God is one of the
things and later on.

991
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:41,800
He said in a later letter that
Joseph taught us that God was

992
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,800
the great head of human
procreation the was really and

993
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,400
truly, the father of both our
spirits and our bodies.

994
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:52,300
And so in the Council of 50
minutes, we do have this brief

995
00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:57,700
note for the April 5th. 1844
meeting of the council, where

996
00:57:57,700 --> 00:58:01,000
the chairman Joseph Smith
explained, the meaning of the

997
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,800
word In which signifies the
first man or first.

998
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:10,800
God, and Amin Christ signifies
the first man's son.

999
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,000
Hmm.
It's so very brief record, but

1000
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,300
that's a very, very powerful
statement where he's equating

1001
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:21,400
the first man to being the first
God, is we know there's a

1002
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,800
revelation from Joseph Smith in
the 1830s saying, the Amon is

1003
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,000
the name for the great God,
right?

1004
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:30,900
And so, he's equating the first
man to the first, God, and he's

1005
00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:35,000
saying that I'm Men Christ,
which is the name for Christ in

1006
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,700
this language.
Signifies the first man son.

1007
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,600
And so that there is just, if I
don't know what other evidence

1008
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,100
you could need to show that
Joseph Smith is clearly

1009
00:58:47,100 --> 00:58:51,600
teaching, some powerful Concepts
in private that he has it, fully

1010
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,900
explicitly laid out to the
Saints publicly, right?

1011
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:57,400
No, that's awesome.
I'm glad you brought that up.

1012
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:01,500
All right, so, let's, let's move
along here.

1013
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,300
So Joseph assassinated, he's
killed.

1014
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,800
Brigham Young takes up the Mana,
right?

1015
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,000
You have the secession crisis.
You got some folks at wander

1016
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,400
away with string.
You have some that wander away

1017
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,400
with.
I believe it was one Madrona rig

1018
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,500
did, right?
And the vast majority go with

1019
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:25,400
with regular, okay?
So let's fast forward.

1020
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:30,800
Now to the very early period of
the Utah period, when we're

1021
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:37,500
still Deseret and Joe, and
Brigham's out there When does

1022
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:44,400
Brigham first make public
utterances of this doctor, so

1023
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,700
this can actually be, you know,
there's some people who really

1024
00:59:47,700 --> 00:59:51,500
study this and study the history
of Brigham sermons and will say

1025
00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:54,500
that maybe some of his early
sermons really kind of hint at

1026
00:59:54,500 --> 01:00:00,000
it as early as say 1847 in
Winter quarters, he's talking

1027
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,400
about how we're all going to be.
We all need to be sealed back

1028
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,800
into father Adams family and
that we're all going to to

1029
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,400
receive the ordinances of the
temple and that's placed father

1030
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,800
Adams name on our foreheads
which in the Book of Revelations

1031
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,500
that says doesn't exist, like
it's the name of God, our

1032
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:20,200
forehead.
And as in 1848, he delivers a

1033
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,500
sermon saying that Adam is the
one who's going to preside over

1034
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:26,300
the resurrection.
It was Michael Adam who

1035
01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:29,700
resurrected Christ, which is
pretty significant the same

1036
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:31,100
time.
He says, you can't do the

1037
01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:33,900
ordinance of the Resurrection,
unless you have been resurrected

1038
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:37,100
yourself and have a resurrected
body and also I think it's

1039
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:39,700
important that Brigham make some
statements, I can't remember

1040
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:41,900
where in the Journal of
discourses, it is.

1041
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,200
But Brigham lays out pretty
clearly.

1042
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,500
That Resurrection is a familiar
affair, right?

1043
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:51,500
It's family.
He when Brigham expounds on.

1044
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:55,600
He says the the sun will
resurrect the father and we'll

1045
01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:00,000
go back down that chain, right?
And it ties in.

1046
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,300
Yeah, no, but very much a shadow
if you will of things which are

1047
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:08,100
to come with Brigham.
Absolutely.

1048
01:01:08,100 --> 01:01:10,900
And on that subject of the
Resurrection that might actually

1049
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:14,600
explain why, or some practice
making the statement, you know,

1050
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,500
there's a statement I believe on
Wikipedia on the atom, God

1051
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:20,300
Doctrine article that says Orson
Pratt taught this and this and

1052
01:01:20,300 --> 01:01:21,600
this and it was a really great
item.

1053
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:25,000
God statement when I go look it
up and the statements actually

1054
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,000
Brigham Young statement and
whoever the Wikipedia editor was

1055
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:32,000
accidentally attributed it to
Orson Pratt but I was like, man,

1056
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,900
I feel like there has no one
likes giving Brigham his do but

1057
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:38,100
it was about kind of The
resurrection if I remember,

1058
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:40,000
right?
But then when I was reading

1059
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,100
through looking for a statement
and Wilfred woodruff's Journal,

1060
01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:47,500
I found this statement in
November 1847 by Orson Pratt

1061
01:01:47,700 --> 01:01:51,500
preaching on the resurrection
and it's pretty surprising who

1062
01:01:51,500 --> 01:01:55,000
he says preside will preside
over the entire Resurrection

1063
01:01:55,300 --> 01:01:58,500
considering his later feelings
regarding Adam.

1064
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,600
So he says, quote, and this is a
Wilfred woodruff's Journal

1065
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,600
November 21st, 1847 Sunday I met
at the stance some of the 12.

1066
01:02:06,700 --> 01:02:10,400
In the congregation or surprise
address the congregation upon

1067
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,200
the subject of the Resurrection,
which was interesting to us.

1068
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,600
All some have been teaching the
doctrine that the resurrection

1069
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,100
was by birth or through the
worm.

1070
01:02:18,100 --> 01:02:21,000
Umm, but brother Pratt showed
the Folly of such a doctor

1071
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,900
improved by many Revelations
that the dead were raised by the

1072
01:02:23,900 --> 01:02:27,700
power of God and the blowing of
the trumpet of Michael, the

1073
01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:30,800
Archangel who was father Adam
and that the graves of the

1074
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,800
Saints would be opened and their
bodies would come forth out of

1075
01:02:33,808 --> 01:02:35,700
the graves according to the
vision of Ezekiel.

1076
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:39,100
And many of the He showed that,
however, miraculous at my appear

1077
01:02:39,100 --> 01:02:42,300
in to us, it was just as easy
for God to perform this work, as

1078
01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:46,100
it was to turn water into wine
or make bread without flour to

1079
01:02:46,100 --> 01:02:49,200
feed a multitude Wilford.
Woodruff followed brother Pratt

1080
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,600
and bore testimony to what I'd
been spit said and spoke in the

1081
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,200
spirit of the Lord.
And so that's a second witness

1082
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,600
that they are teaching.
In that time period, that Adam,

1083
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,300
is the one who's presiding over
the resurrection of the Human

1084
01:03:00,300 --> 01:03:02,800
family and as you said, that
would make sense if it's a

1085
01:03:02,808 --> 01:03:06,400
familial thing and Adam is the
grand patriarch.

1086
01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:09,700
Over the Human family, right?
Yep.

1087
01:03:10,100 --> 01:03:15,000
So you get into Deseret and
there's kind of a bit more focus

1088
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:19,400
on the temporal aspects of
surviving out in the brand new

1089
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,100
settlement and there's
occasionally sermons, but

1090
01:03:22,100 --> 01:03:25,700
there's not really a whole lot
of doctrinal preaching until we

1091
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:31,100
know, probably the early 1850s
and in the early 1850s you start

1092
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:32,700
to get the Journal of
discourses.

1093
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:35,800
You can get like these really
great powerful, sermons, that

1094
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,700
are recorded.
Almost word for word because

1095
01:03:38,700 --> 01:03:42,200
they have George D W.
Who learned Pitman shorthand

1096
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,400
because Willard Richards.
When he converted George, do you

1097
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,300
want in England?
He said, you need to go learn

1098
01:03:47,300 --> 01:03:52,100
how to acquire the skill to be
able to record meetings, almost

1099
01:03:52,100 --> 01:03:55,300
word for word because that will
be an invaluable skill for the

1100
01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:57,900
Saints to have.
And you know because if you read

1101
01:03:57,900 --> 01:04:01,800
Joseph Smith sermons and Nauvoo
unfortunately the reporters can

1102
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,300
only get some a sentence here
sentence there summarize, you

1103
01:04:05,308 --> 01:04:08,400
know, that you don't have any
Word for word, sermons of Joseph

1104
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,300
Smith, unfortunately.
But you get into early Utah, and

1105
01:04:12,300 --> 01:04:15,600
you're getting these really long
detailed sermons where they're

1106
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,800
capturing.
Basically the entire thing of

1107
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,500
what Brigham Young and what the
other Apostles are teaching.

1108
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,800
Okay, let me stop you there for
a second, because now I'm going

1109
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:29,600
to play Devil's Advocate.
We'll probably literally Devil's

1110
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,300
Advocate.
Okay so um what do you say to

1111
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:36,500
someone?
Who says you know what maybe

1112
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:42,600
maybe you know not old didn't do
it correctly in his translation.

1113
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,700
Maybe maybe Brigham was talking
about something that's lost to

1114
01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:48,900
time and we don't understand it
anymore.

1115
01:04:48,900 --> 01:04:53,800
What's your answer to that?
I would say that when you if

1116
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,400
you're on talking about the
initial Adam, God's term.

1117
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,200
In which we can get to in a
second.

1118
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:02,200
There's more than just one or
two people recording it.

1119
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,300
You actually have one, two,
three, four, five, different

1120
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:10,900
people who are all recording,
actually, six if you count,

1121
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:14,000
what's in the journal discourses
you have six different people

1122
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,800
who are all recording this
sermon and they're all capturing

1123
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,600
the key details of it and they
all coincide.

1124
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,500
God says the mouths of two or
three Witnesses.

1125
01:05:22,900 --> 01:05:24,600
Yeah.
That's that's six Witnesses.

1126
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:28,400
And these are not You have the
church reporters, you have

1127
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:32,200
apostles who are recording this.
When you look at the multitude

1128
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,600
of the sources, the idea that we
just can't trust that it might

1129
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,900
be a misquote as some people
might try to say, it just isn't

1130
01:05:40,900 --> 01:05:44,000
really credible when you look at
them, the magnitude and the

1131
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,400
multitude of the sources.
Okay.

1132
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:52,700
How about this one?
How about Brigham?

1133
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:58,400
This is all Brigham's idea that
lets Just toss out for a second

1134
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,500
toss out the last hour of our
conversation toss out the last

1135
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:04,900
hour.
Say everybody everybody except

1136
01:06:04,900 --> 01:06:09,400
you and I come to the conclusion
that Joseph Smith wasn't talking

1137
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,100
about Adam God.
Okay, toss that out.

1138
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:18,600
And just for argument's sake.
This is all something bigger

1139
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,100
made up.
What do you have to say about

1140
01:06:20,100 --> 01:06:21,700
that?
Well, if you want to say that

1141
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:25,700
it's Brigham's, it was just
Brigham's opinion, bring them

1142
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:27,900
makes many statements that he
makes it clear that he has.

1143
01:06:27,900 --> 01:06:31,500
No, that is a revelation and
that is something that he

1144
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:33,900
personally.
So he will say on some occasions

1145
01:06:33,900 --> 01:06:36,800
that Joseph taught it to him but
he will also say that this

1146
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,300
Revelation from the Lord is what
really confirmed this to him and

1147
01:06:40,300 --> 01:06:44,100
why he teaches what he teaches
is because of the Nations.

1148
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:47,400
He has received what I'm going
to say next is going to break my

1149
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:53,100
heart because when you put the
two prophets side-by-side

1150
01:06:53,100 --> 01:06:59,100
Brigham and Joseph, I want to be
more like Joseph and leading my

1151
01:06:59,100 --> 01:07:00,900
family.
I really do that.

1152
01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:05,200
Kind of sweet soft being able
just to get him to to move along

1153
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,700
easily.
Unfortunately, at times, I find

1154
01:07:07,700 --> 01:07:11,800
myself being able to identify
with Brigham a little more in

1155
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,200
the sense of get your butt in
the wagon.

1156
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,600
We're going to cross those
planes.

1157
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,600
We're going to go up and over
that and I don't want hearing

1158
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,200
complaining about it.
We're going to get there, right?

1159
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,600
So when I say this, this is not
to Brigham's detriment, his mesh

1160
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:30,100
mission was different, but
Brigham, isn't this Theologian?

1161
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:33,800
That Joseph Smith is I'm you
could try to say that.

1162
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,300
I think that's a common
perception, but when you

1163
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:39,300
actually dig into Brigham Young
sermon, did he did have his

1164
01:07:39,300 --> 01:07:41,400
moments but but let's, let's be
honest.

1165
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,300
And let's be fair in the sense
that he's not revealing.

1166
01:07:45,300 --> 01:07:48,900
The amount that Joseph revealed
is definitely building upon

1167
01:07:48,900 --> 01:07:51,600
Joseph Foundation, or I
wouldn't, I wouldn't give him

1168
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,000
the credit that some people
would try to.

1169
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,200
And, and again, that's not to
disparage burden because I love

1170
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,800
Brigham and I will bear
testimony to the day I go to my

1171
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,300
grave.
That he was a prophet called of

1172
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:08,300
God and did absolutely nothing
wrong with, in his prophetic

1173
01:08:08,300 --> 01:08:13,100
calling, nothing having with
that.

1174
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:18,000
This is a doctrine that sounds a
lot more like Joseph Smith than

1175
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:22,600
it does Brigham Young.
I would say that with the nature

1176
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,200
of God, it doesn't seem like
something that Brigham Young

1177
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,399
would make up.
No, and that's what I'm saying.

1178
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:32,000
A lot of great Revelations.
Have deal more with temporal.

1179
01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:33,800
Matter.
And that's where I was going

1180
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,000
right?
Brigham Brigham's a different

1181
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,600
profit for a different time,
right?

1182
01:08:38,700 --> 01:08:41,700
Josef's laying down the
principles of the Kingdom

1183
01:08:41,899 --> 01:08:44,100
Brigham's put in
brick-and-mortar to that

1184
01:08:44,100 --> 01:08:46,500
Kingdom, so to speak.
Does that make sense?

1185
01:08:46,500 --> 01:08:48,700
It could you?
Yeah, I can definitely agree

1186
01:08:48,700 --> 01:08:50,899
with.
Okay, I think in that I was

1187
01:08:50,899 --> 01:08:52,500
going to say, that's where I
think we were.

1188
01:08:53,100 --> 01:08:56,800
That's where I was coming from,
and I don't think I as usual

1189
01:08:56,899 --> 01:08:59,200
voiced it real well.
But, but, yeah, that's what I'm

1190
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:05,100
saying is that Expounding upon
the nature of God or that seems

1191
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:09,300
to be a little bit.
I don't want to say more but not

1192
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:11,200
what Brigham's about Brigham's
about.

1193
01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:13,700
Hey, this is when you're going
to water your Gardens, this is

1194
01:09:13,700 --> 01:09:15,399
how we're going to set up these
communities.

1195
01:09:15,700 --> 01:09:19,100
This is how we're going to build
this massive Temple and this is

1196
01:09:19,100 --> 01:09:20,899
how we're going to get out west,
right?

1197
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:26,399
So all of a sudden from the
switch to that and just just get

1198
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:28,200
that out of whole cloth is
something different.

1199
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:32,000
The other thing I point to is
Eliza R snow who was one of

1200
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,800
Joseph's wife's and ended up
becoming one of Brigham's wife,

1201
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,600
she even said Brigham didn't
come up with that.

1202
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,700
Yep, that was something that
came from Joseph Smith.

1203
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:45,500
Yep, you have a lot of
different, the fact that if it

1204
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:48,300
would be a whole nother, you
know, we're trying to keep this

1205
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:51,200
down to one conversation, you
not be, you know, five hours

1206
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:54,300
long talking about everything
but there's just so much other

1207
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:57,400
stuff that would point to the
Going back to Joseph Smith, you

1208
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,200
have people whispering and not
view about whether Adam might be

1209
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,000
the personage.
They consider their father in

1210
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,200
Heaven.
You have WWE Phelps writing

1211
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,300
poems that kind of hint at it.
And and when Brigham Young

1212
01:10:08,300 --> 01:10:12,800
reveals this in 1852 is when he
makes his public Proclamation.

1213
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,200
You have William Clayton.
Who is Joseph's?

1214
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,400
Private scribe?
He accepts it.

1215
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,600
You have allies are snow writing
poems about it.

1216
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,500
You have WWE Felts riding phone
poems about it.

1217
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:26,600
Almost every single person the
Quorum of the L've save Orson

1218
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,200
Pratt accepts this when Brigham
Young reveals it.

1219
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:34,100
And let's not forget also that
there's actually hymns that are

1220
01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:39,100
in early LDS hymnals.
Preaching about Adam God, yeah,

1221
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:44,100
Kim's, right, so, so that that
adds to the veracity of that.

1222
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:47,800
Now let me let me play Devil's
Advocate one last time because I

1223
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,800
want to try to cover the major
points of contention here where

1224
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:55,000
people try to Discount this or
kind of sweep it under the rug,

1225
01:10:56,100 --> 01:10:59,800
it was just Brigham's Theory
Brigham, never meant for it to

1226
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,400
be a Doctrine.
It was the atom, God Theory, not

1227
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,100
the atom God Doctrine, what your
rebuttal to that, I don't seem

1228
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,700
Teaching, it's just a theory.
If you want to want me to read

1229
01:11:10,700 --> 01:11:14,800
the the statement from Germany,
this course is volume 1 page,

1230
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,700
50.
You mean the one at General,

1231
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:19,500
Conference General Conference,
the one from the pulpit at

1232
01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,000
General Conference.
Yeah, that'll yes.

1233
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,800
Jacob I would love to hear that.
Okay so I love that statement

1234
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,000
and I want to read that but I
want to just add that something

1235
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,200
that a lot of people don't
really know about is that on

1236
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:37,000
March 14th 1852 less than a
month before conference.

1237
01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:41,700
The Brigham Young in his prayer.
Circle has some interesting

1238
01:11:41,700 --> 01:11:43,900
things, that's recorded and this
isn't.

1239
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:45,600
This is kind of a hard to find
statement.

1240
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,500
It was recorded in the
historians office Journal.

1241
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,100
You can find this statement in
complete discourses of Brigham

1242
01:11:52,100 --> 01:11:55,500
Young and also I believe Nate
Taylor's the unknown.

1243
01:11:55,500 --> 01:11:58,000
God book.
Also cites this statement.

1244
01:11:58,100 --> 01:12:02,000
It says at 4 p.m.
Brigham Young Heber C, Kimball

1245
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,000
rig Willard Richards.
Orson Pratt Wilford Woodruff

1246
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,300
George L, Smith Thomas.
Block Edward Teacher Daniel H

1247
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:12,700
Wells and will WWE Phelps met in
the temple rooms and prayed.

1248
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:16,300
Brigham Young rolled out
Revelation upon Revelation in

1249
01:12:16,300 --> 01:12:18,000
regards to the creation of the
world.

1250
01:12:18,100 --> 01:12:21,200
Adam came to the earth when he
assisted to form it and he

1251
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,100
partook of the fruits of the
earth and became Earthly and

1252
01:12:24,100 --> 01:12:28,800
they which are faithful after
and faithfuls in Brackets, shall

1253
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,100
receive our resurrected bodies
and shall all have the privilege

1254
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:36,900
of going as atoms to form and
Earth and do likewise that in my

1255
01:12:36,900 --> 01:12:39,200
opinion.
Opinion is Brigham Young rolling

1256
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,900
out a revelation that's kind of
confirming to him what Joseph

1257
01:12:42,900 --> 01:12:45,000
Smith was teaching in the Nauvoo
period.

1258
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,000
And this is I don't see it as
any coincidences is only a

1259
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,800
couple weeks before the great
General Conference

1260
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,000
pronouncement.
Where Brigham Young reveals this

1261
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,800
Doctrine.
How long, how long was that

1262
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,600
sermon that?
Brigham taught during General

1263
01:12:58,600 --> 01:12:59,800
Conference on Adam.
God.

1264
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,100
Oh man, I have all the different
accounts of it, but I'm not

1265
01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:05,200
quite sure how it was like 15
minutes.

1266
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,000
Long was all right, was it?
Not sure.

1267
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:09,900
I just know.
I know about all the different

1268
01:13:09,900 --> 01:13:13,000
accounts of it.
I think, if I'm not mistaken, I

1269
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,800
believe.
He preached upon the subject for

1270
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,100
two or three hours.
Okay.

1271
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,400
So he this is and my point in
the question was this is more

1272
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:27,800
than a theory right Brigham's.
Got enough chops here in

1273
01:13:28,300 --> 01:13:31,400
understanding this that he's
like, okay, we can roll it out.

1274
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,700
We're safe.
We're in the middle of the

1275
01:13:33,700 --> 01:13:36,800
desert and the Rocky Mountains.
Ain't nobody?

1276
01:13:37,100 --> 01:13:40,300
Coming for us at the moment.
It's time to move this thing,

1277
01:13:40,300 --> 01:13:43,500
forward.
It's time to spill the beans, so

1278
01:13:43,500 --> 01:13:45,800
to speak on on what?
Joseph told me.

1279
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,100
But go ahead and carry on.
Sorry.

1280
01:13:48,300 --> 01:13:52,300
All right, so that key statement
now here at Owen, habitants of

1281
01:13:52,300 --> 01:13:55,300
the earth, Jew, and Gentile,
Saint and sinner when our

1282
01:13:55,300 --> 01:13:57,200
father, Adam came into the
Garden of Eden.

1283
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,800
He came in at with a Celestial
body and brought Eve one of his

1284
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,500
wives with him.
He helped to make an organized

1285
01:14:04,500 --> 01:14:07,000
this world.
He is Michael the Archangel.

1286
01:14:07,100 --> 01:14:10,700
Ancient of Days about whom, holy
men, have written and spoken.

1287
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,200
He is our father and our God,
and the only god with whom we

1288
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:19,100
have to do every man upon this
Earth, profession Christians or

1289
01:14:19,100 --> 01:14:23,700
non professing must hear it.
And we'll know it sooner or

1290
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,400
later does that really sound
like Brigham has any doubts in

1291
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:31,000
his mind about what you just
said it's not exactly the

1292
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,300
musings of a theory, right?
Nowhere in there.

1293
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:36,400
Do you hear maybe nowhere in
there?

1294
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,200
Do you hear it?
Could be, it's everybody's going

1295
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,000
to have to understand this.
Everyone's going to have to hear

1296
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,300
it.
One thing I would add to this is

1297
01:14:46,300 --> 01:14:50,000
some, there's occasionally
people who tried to float this

1298
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:54,500
to Adams Terry to say that maybe
Adam was just kind of a name

1299
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:57,300
that he also called God on
occasion, you know, and it kind

1300
01:14:57,300 --> 01:14:59,700
of confuses everyone and gets a
lot of thing.

1301
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:03,300
But it was just a Adam was just
another name for God, there were

1302
01:15:03,300 --> 01:15:06,300
two atoms, there's the Adam
who's God, the father, and then

1303
01:15:06,300 --> 01:15:07,800
there's a demand.
Garden.

1304
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:11,300
But the problem with that
interpretation of Brigham

1305
01:15:11,300 --> 01:15:14,500
Young's Adam, God teachings is
you don't, you won't just have

1306
01:15:14,500 --> 01:15:18,000
two atoms.
You have to have to Michael's to

1307
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:22,000
Ancient of Days.
He's applying all the titles to

1308
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:26,000
that are Adam in the Garden of
Eden to God the Father.

1309
01:15:26,100 --> 01:15:29,600
Yeah, and we have the sermon and
we don't just have this kind of

1310
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,100
it.
Wilford Woodruff right?

1311
01:15:31,100 --> 01:15:34,000
Sneak out of it in his journal.
As I mentioned we have six

1312
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,600
different counts of it.
We have George D W, we have

1313
01:15:37,100 --> 01:15:41,500
Wilford Woodruff Thomas, Bullock
Hosea, Stout and his journal

1314
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:43,200
writes about it.
He's rewrites, president.

1315
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,800
Brigham Young taught that Adam
was the father of Jesus.

1316
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,500
And the only God to us, that he
came to the world in a

1317
01:15:48,508 --> 01:15:53,100
resurrected body, Etc.
And so that's in Hosea, Stouts

1318
01:15:53,100 --> 01:15:57,300
journals, which are published.
You have a bishop, I believe.

1319
01:15:57,700 --> 01:16:02,500
Lorenzo Brown was a bishop, and
you had Samuel, H Rogers also.

1320
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:05,300
Alright, counts of it.
Notice this the other day,

1321
01:16:05,900 --> 01:16:08,100
probably a couple weeks ago.
When I was reading through

1322
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,400
complete discourse of Brigham
Young which is just a massive

1323
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,000
book.
It's unfortunately it's hard to

1324
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,400
hard to get a copy of that.
They only did 500 copies because

1325
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,800
apparently there's only 500
people in the world who want

1326
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,400
every published, Brigham Young
sermon which is a joke.

1327
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:26,800
And so those books are going for
you know probably over a

1328
01:16:26,808 --> 01:16:30,700
thousand dollars nowadays but
you can get a PDF copy.

1329
01:16:30,700 --> 01:16:34,400
I believe online for you can get
each volume for like ten

1330
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,300
dollars.
We can get the whole set for

1331
01:16:36,300 --> 01:16:41,700
nice like $50 for digital copy
but that book has all of those

1332
01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:44,100
different accounts of that
sermon.

1333
01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:47,500
So and it's it.
There's a bit of overlap with

1334
01:16:47,500 --> 01:16:50,000
the Journal of discourses
because I'm sure a lot of

1335
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,700
Brigham Young sermons.
Get published in the Journal of

1336
01:16:51,700 --> 01:16:53,900
discourses.
But what's interesting is

1337
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:57,000
Journal of discourses aren't
really always published in

1338
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,200
chronological order.
They go.

1339
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:03,600
I Want A good sermon on tithing.
I Want A good sermon on Temple

1340
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,300
work.
I Want A good sermon on the

1341
01:17:05,300 --> 01:17:08,600
nature of God and so they kind
of throw And makes makes up a

1342
01:17:08,608 --> 01:17:11,400
bit of what they think are some
good sermons that Saints would

1343
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,200
appreciate to read while
complete discourse of Brigham,

1344
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:18,200
Young, kind of lays it all out.
In order of the talks that

1345
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:20,600
Brigham Young gave would be
interesting because you could

1346
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,400
see what was on his mind at the
time.

1347
01:17:22,700 --> 01:17:25,800
Yeah, you can see that
development like, in 1853 he

1348
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,400
starts.
He gets on a lot about how we

1349
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,900
really need to have kind of the
true independence of heaven and

1350
01:17:31,900 --> 01:17:35,100
think for ourselves and choose
righteousness because it's

1351
01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:36,700
right.
And not because it's going to

1352
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:39,700
get you You any sort of
advantage or Glory or power?

1353
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,900
He kind of just goes on a thread
where he kind of lays out these

1354
01:17:42,900 --> 01:17:47,100
ideas and develops them over the
next, you know, over his sermon.

1355
01:17:47,100 --> 01:17:53,200
So you know, in We talked a lot
about Joseph Smith and what he

1356
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,400
thought, what we thought he may
be going through during his

1357
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:57,800
progression and I think it's
only fair.

1358
01:17:57,800 --> 01:17:59,900
We do a little bit with with
Brigham here.

1359
01:18:00,300 --> 01:18:04,100
I think, especially knowing me,
Frasier, I know especially

1360
01:18:04,100 --> 01:18:07,500
today.
Brigham, Young is really

1361
01:18:07,700 --> 01:18:14,800
demonized heavily and people
miss the fact that once you

1362
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:21,300
strip away the The perceived
harshness of Brigham Young and I

1363
01:18:21,300 --> 01:18:24,800
say preceived because we live in
a different time.

1364
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:30,400
When you get right down to it,
this is a man who cares deeply

1365
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:34,200
he cares deeply about his
predecessor Joseph.

1366
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:39,000
Smith loves the man.
He cares, very deeply about his

1367
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:44,400
own family and then he cares.
Very deeply about the Saints,

1368
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:49,300
right?
The every time I hear it, I Weep

1369
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:54,200
when you get the account where
Brigham this is one place.

1370
01:18:54,500 --> 01:18:57,300
I shouldn't say one place.
This is one of the places where

1371
01:18:57,300 --> 01:19:00,700
you can really see.
Brigham is a prophet is with the

1372
01:19:00,700 --> 01:19:04,500
whole Willie and Martin handcart
companies, right?

1373
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:10,900
Even before the snow flies.
He says those Saints are in

1374
01:19:10,900 --> 01:19:16,000
trouble in the conference.
We got to go get them all.

1375
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,200
The talking about religion is
great but if we're not willing

1376
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:24,300
to live it and go help our
Brethren, it doesn't matter.

1377
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,300
Yeah.
That's and there is a deep

1378
01:19:27,300 --> 01:19:31,100
feeling within Brigham of love,
right?

1379
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:35,200
And, and in those times of
perceived harshness what I think

1380
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:38,500
were getting is a type of
fatherly concern.

1381
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:41,900
CERN right?
Right down to how he's talking

1382
01:19:41,900 --> 01:19:46,100
about the federal government
when they start knocking on the

1383
01:19:46,100 --> 01:19:50,000
door and he's like, will go to
war of we I'm not going to see

1384
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,000
this people pushed around any
further.

1385
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:57,600
We're done, right?
And so Brigham's a he's complex

1386
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,400
because he's human like the rest
of us like Joseph Smith is

1387
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:05,100
complex and everything else.
But we do a disservice, not only

1388
01:20:05,100 --> 01:20:09,600
to Brigham but to history in
general, when we paint him with

1389
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,200
such broad strokes and take away
his humanity and who he is.

1390
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:16,400
Yeah.
Absolutely.

1391
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,000
I think that's so true about
where his priorities were.

1392
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,500
He's like I'm telling you all
these great deeper things about

1393
01:20:21,500 --> 01:20:24,400
the nature of God, but it
doesn't matter if you are not

1394
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,000
going to go out there and live
the Commandments and help your

1395
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,300
neighbors and live the gospel in
your daily lives.

1396
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:32,500
And so he was really big on
emphasizing that.

1397
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:36,000
The most important thing is he
says, I don't care if you

1398
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:40,000
believe what I'm telling you
about God or not, I care whether

1399
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,300
or not you will go exercise,
your faith, and go help those

1400
01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:45,300
Saints who are in trouble and
are in need.

1401
01:20:45,300 --> 01:20:47,400
We have tons of saints
immigrating here.

1402
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:51,500
We need everyone to be willing
to be charitable and to support

1403
01:20:51,500 --> 01:20:54,500
one another.
Because there were times where

1404
01:20:54,500 --> 01:20:57,700
they'll like, we talked about
the handcart issues, they were

1405
01:20:57,900 --> 01:21:02,700
even after that 1857 1858, they
had times where they were almost

1406
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,400
Starving and Brigham, Young and
Heber C, Kimball go out and say,

1407
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,000
this is why we've been preaching
so much about the need to store

1408
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,600
up all of your excess.
We tend to not waste food

1409
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,700
because we have our store Houses
full and we won't turn away

1410
01:21:16,700 --> 01:21:20,500
Saints who need food but
everyone should be that way and

1411
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:24,500
to be constantly trying to build
up their store houses so that

1412
01:21:24,500 --> 01:21:28,200
they also can be saviors of
their Brethren.

1413
01:21:28,700 --> 01:21:31,700
So yep, absolutely.
All right, sorry about that,

1414
01:21:31,700 --> 01:21:35,200
kind of sidebar, go.
And continue on, oh well, if you

1415
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:39,200
get into and so some people
might say, it was just a handful

1416
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:42,900
of sermons.
But oh, man, when I go through

1417
01:21:42,900 --> 01:21:47,100
the atom God sermons, you know,
I guess if you read the Journal

1418
01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:50,700
of discourses, because it's a
variety of just hand-picked,

1419
01:21:50,700 --> 01:21:54,400
sermons based off of different
topics, you might only find one

1420
01:21:54,400 --> 01:22:01,600
or maybe two Adam, God's sermons
per volume during the 1850s, you

1421
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,800
know, it's not a huge.
Huge priority, but when you

1422
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,700
compile all of the unpublished
stuff, there's a lot of

1423
01:22:07,700 --> 01:22:10,000
unpublished, Adam God, sermons
and Brigham.

1424
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:16,200
Young is just preaching on it.
You know, 1852 1853 1854.

1425
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,800
I was I was just going through
and I'm like, so February 1854,

1426
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,800
he gives a really great sermon
on it and he talks about.

1427
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,200
He goes back to saying the
reason I started talking about

1428
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,800
this, with some of the elders
who are trying to say that Jesus

1429
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:32,000
was begotten by the Holy Ghost.
He says absolutely not.

1430
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,700
That is Not what the New
Testament teaches.

1431
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:37,900
He is the Son of God, the
father.

1432
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:42,400
And so this is on February 19th
1854.

1433
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:45,100
I will notice another idea
touching the Holy Ghost be

1434
01:22:45,100 --> 01:22:47,000
getting the Son of God, who was
it?

1435
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,100
That spoke from heaven and said
this is my beloved Son.

1436
01:22:50,100 --> 01:22:54,000
Hear him was it God.
The Father it was the apostles

1437
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,600
bear testimony that such a voice
was actually heard.

1438
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,900
This is my beloved Son and if it
were true that the Holy Ghost be

1439
01:23:00,900 --> 01:23:03,800
got him, he would have added
which Begotten by one of my

1440
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:07,100
neighbors hear ye him.
Who was the Savior be gotten by

1441
01:23:07,500 --> 01:23:11,100
by his toe by his father or his
brother or some other person.

1442
01:23:11,300 --> 01:23:13,700
So the Holy Ghost beat, that's
what the Holy Ghost be getting

1443
01:23:13,700 --> 01:23:17,000
the Savior looks like to me, it
makes me think of a story.

1444
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:18,400
I heard in a dramatic
performance.

1445
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,200
Once that certain individual is
born of one of his aunt's and he

1446
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:23,700
had no mother.
It appears as reasonable to me

1447
01:23:23,700 --> 01:23:27,100
as to say cousin or a fellow
Laborer of the savior's begat

1448
01:23:27,100 --> 01:23:29,400
him, as to say that the Holy
Ghost be get him.

1449
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:33,100
Who did beget him his father and
his father is our guy God and

1450
01:23:33,100 --> 01:23:35,800
the father of our spirits.
And he is the frame of the body,

1451
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:38,500
the God and father of our Lord,
Jesus Christ.

1452
01:23:38,500 --> 01:23:40,400
Who is he?
He is Father.

1453
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:43,400
Adam Michael, the ancient days.
Has he a father?

1454
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:46,700
He has, has he a mother?
He has now to say the Son of God

1455
01:23:46,708 --> 01:23:50,000
was begotten by the Holy Ghost,
is to say that the Holy Ghost is

1456
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,100
the is God, the Father, which is
inconsistent.

1457
01:23:52,100 --> 01:23:56,500
And contrary to all the
revelations of God, both ancient

1458
01:23:56,500 --> 01:24:01,500
and modern.
So, Brigham continues to teach

1459
01:24:01,500 --> 01:24:06,700
this in his 18, you know,
throughout the 1850s but you

1460
01:24:06,708 --> 01:24:10,000
gets a little bit of conflict
with one of the members of the

1461
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:11,800
Quorum of The Twelve Orson.
Pratt.

1462
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,600
Yeah.
So Orson Pratt starts, kind of

1463
01:24:14,900 --> 01:24:19,900
given some controversy on this
and not only is Orson Pratt, but

1464
01:24:19,900 --> 01:24:23,000
Brigham Young's kind of seeing
that there are some states who

1465
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,500
are kind of struggling with this
new doctoral Revelation.

1466
01:24:27,700 --> 01:24:31,800
He says, I don't have any doubt
on it of it but, you know, maybe

1467
01:24:32,100 --> 01:24:34,500
maybe it would be Better for the
people.

1468
01:24:34,900 --> 01:24:37,200
You know, if it wouldn't bring
them under condemnation.

1469
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,200
If I might not have revealed,
this is kind of his, his kind

1470
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,300
concern in the back of his mind,
about Adam God.

1471
01:24:44,300 --> 01:24:46,500
So and that's exactly where I
was going to go next.

1472
01:24:46,500 --> 01:24:50,400
I think we've established two
things, very concretely here

1473
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,600
through the research that you
brought in one is that this was

1474
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,900
something that was taught by
Joseph Smith.

1475
01:24:57,300 --> 01:25:00,600
Granted, I will say it was
taught at a distance, so to

1476
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:02,900
speak, right?
He couldn't speak boldly about

1477
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:08,300
It it he didn't have Brigham's
blessing of being in the in the

1478
01:25:08,300 --> 01:25:11,100
wilderness, so to speak and
being able to talk about it.

1479
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:18,100
But we know we know based on who
Joseph was what his voice sounds

1480
01:25:18,100 --> 01:25:23,200
like, so to speak, through the
written word, we know that Eliza

1481
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:27,800
R snow said that hey the the
atom God Doctrine was given to

1482
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:30,100
Brigham by Joseph.
This wasn't something that

1483
01:25:30,100 --> 01:25:34,700
Brigham Did Sully so we can
establish it.

1484
01:25:34,700 --> 01:25:38,000
Joseph Smith taught it.
We can establish that.

1485
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:44,000
Brigham Young further, debt.
If you had to guess through your

1486
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:48,100
research, how many what
percentage of the saints were on

1487
01:25:48,100 --> 01:25:50,100
board with this.
And what percentage of the

1488
01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:53,400
saints were really struggling
with this Doctrine?

1489
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:55,600
How is this received by the
Saints?

1490
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:01,800
That's your good with the tough
questions because we know that

1491
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:05,900
in England that it did create
some problems in England, when

1492
01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:08,500
this was published in Journal of
discourses, were published in

1493
01:26:08,500 --> 01:26:10,400
England.
And so some of the conference

1494
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,300
the church were Whoa.
What is what is this?

1495
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,500
These are fresh converts, who
didn't have Joseph Smith kind of

1496
01:26:17,500 --> 01:26:21,700
leading up to it and yo, wedding
their feet into this Doctrine

1497
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:26,000
and so we do know that in
England, there was quite a bit

1498
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:28,500
of apostasy.
I don't know what the exact

1499
01:26:28,500 --> 01:26:30,600
percentage is.
But we know that there was

1500
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:33,800
definitely apostasy in England,
where the Saints at home.

1501
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:39,000
It's unclear to me how many
accepted or rejected it, but the

1502
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:43,500
on the most vocal of it, Was
probably Orson Pratt and I've

1503
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:45,700
got probably one good statement
by Brigham Young.

1504
01:26:45,700 --> 01:26:47,200
I'd like to read about that.
Sure.

1505
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,900
Let me before you do that.
Let me ask this was was Orson

1506
01:26:50,900 --> 01:26:57,700
really the only apostle that
that kind of bristled at the at

1507
01:26:57,700 --> 01:27:00,700
the atom God Doctrine, you get
the feeling that the rest were

1508
01:27:00,700 --> 01:27:05,500
on board with it.
I'm from I can show that

1509
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:09,600
basically every Apostle in early
Utah was on board with it,

1510
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:12,400
except for maybe or Except for
definitely worse than Pratt.

1511
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:16,200
And maybe I think abasa Lyman
might have had some problems.

1512
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:20,400
So let me ask you, this was
Orson Pratt and I'm trying to

1513
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:22,900
think back and I'm fuzzy on it
and I don't know.

1514
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:25,800
So if anyone in the audience who
hears this has the answer, let

1515
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:31,100
me know, was Orson, Pratt and
Apostle when Joseph Smith was

1516
01:27:31,100 --> 01:27:34,900
alive.
He was, but he was, he one

1517
01:27:34,900 --> 01:27:37,500
thing?
I would add with Orson Pratt is

1518
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,400
that you know he did have some
conflicts with Joseph Smith,

1519
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:41,100
okay?
Okay.

1520
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:43,800
And, you know, there was a brief
time when he was excommunicated

1521
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,300
in the Nauvoo period.
But then he repented and remain

1522
01:27:47,300 --> 01:27:50,700
reconciliation with the prophet
and was re given his

1523
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:53,400
apostleship.
But he still, I don't think was,

1524
01:27:54,100 --> 01:27:57,200
I don't think that he was in
Joseph, Smith's private councils

1525
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:03,400
as much in 1842. 1843 Reagan sa
Brigham, Young or Heber C,

1526
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,500
Kimball.
Where, you know, he's not in the

1527
01:28:06,508 --> 01:28:09,500
Holy order until December of
1843 house.

1528
01:28:09,500 --> 01:28:12,600
Partly taking all this I'm
there's actually some statement

1529
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:17,400
showing that parley Pratt was
was he that he believed that we

1530
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,300
were The Offspring of God and
that you know as we actually did

1531
01:28:20,300 --> 01:28:24,000
read one parley Pratt statement
earlier about how Adam and Eve

1532
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,000
were going to preside over the
holy spirit animal.

1533
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:27,600
Yeah, I forgot about that.
Yeah, no.

1534
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:31,800
All right, go ahead.
So with Orson Pratt, this is in

1535
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,900
September 17th of 1854.
And so this appears to be about

1536
01:28:35,900 --> 01:28:39,500
the beginning of or sand,
Pratt's, kind of grumbling about

1537
01:28:39,500 --> 01:28:41,800
Adam God.
Oh, this isn't Wilfred

1538
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:46,700
woodruff's journal on September
17th 1854, brother, or soprano.

1539
01:28:46,700 --> 01:28:49,000
Also thought that Adam was made
of the Dust of the earth.

1540
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,300
Could not believe that Adam was
God, or the father of Jesus

1541
01:28:52,300 --> 01:28:55,300
Christ present, young said that
he was, he came from another

1542
01:28:55,300 --> 01:28:58,900
world and made this one Rajeev
with him / took of the fruits of

1543
01:28:58,900 --> 01:29:01,600
the earth, be at children, and
they were Earthly and had mortal

1544
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:03,100
bodies.
And if we were faithful, we

1545
01:29:03,100 --> 01:29:06,300
should become Gods as he was.
And so then Brigham, this is

1546
01:29:06,300 --> 01:29:08,000
Brigham's, advice to Orson
Pratt.

1547
01:29:08,700 --> 01:29:10,700
When you see a lot of these
discussions, bring them was

1548
01:29:10,700 --> 01:29:13,700
actually A very patient with
Orson Pratt.

1549
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,500
Brigham told, Brother Pratt to
lay aside, his philosophical

1550
01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:20,300
reasoning and get Revelation
from God, to govern him.

1551
01:29:20,500 --> 01:29:24,100
And to Enlighten his mind more,
it would be a great blessing to

1552
01:29:24,100 --> 01:29:26,600
him to lay aside his books and
go into the canyon.

1553
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,300
Now, some of the rest of us were
doing and it would be better for

1554
01:29:29,300 --> 01:29:31,100
him.
Philosophy injured him in a

1555
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:33,000
measure.
Many other good things were said

1556
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,800
by present young.
We should, we should grow up in

1557
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:38,800
Revelation, so that Revelation
would govern Every Act of our

1558
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:42,600
lives.
And so, In 1858, there is

1559
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:46,900
actually a trial where the
apostles were actually kind of

1560
01:29:46,900 --> 01:29:50,700
wanting to cut off or some prep
for being in Rebellion, to

1561
01:29:50,700 --> 01:29:54,100
Brigham Young on this, you know,
Brigham Young.

1562
01:29:54,100 --> 01:29:57,000
There was a conflict because
Orson Pratt was sent back East

1563
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:59,800
to publish a paper and to do
missionary work in kind of to

1564
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,800
reveal the principle of plural
marriage to the world and to

1565
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:08,300
publish UNC 132 and he was told
to only, you know, when you go

1566
01:30:08,300 --> 01:30:12,700
out in the mission field.
Don't get into any new things

1567
01:30:12,700 --> 01:30:16,100
only try to explain what has
been revealed through the proper

1568
01:30:16,100 --> 01:30:18,600
channel.
The priesthood and Orson Pratt

1569
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:21,900
instead of just doing that he
goes into all sorts of his

1570
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,800
philosophical reasonings in his
publication and is paper.

1571
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:30,400
That's hate being paid for by
the church and you know any

1572
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,200
doesn't really feel sorry about
that.

1573
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,800
And you know Brigham Young kind
of takes exception.

1574
01:30:36,100 --> 01:30:39,100
Yeah he's kind of he's kind of a
little bothered because he knows

1575
01:30:39,100 --> 01:30:42,700
that Orson Pratt he's like when
or Orson Pratt preaches upon

1576
01:30:42,700 --> 01:30:45,400
things that he knows, he
preaches Mormonism better than

1577
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:48,200
anyone else.
And uses, you'll see that

1578
01:30:48,700 --> 01:30:51,500
they'll say that person, perhaps
writings on the pre-existence

1579
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:54,300
are some of the best I've ever
been written defending.

1580
01:30:54,500 --> 01:30:57,100
The doctor of the pre-existence,
but then bring them says, but

1581
01:30:57,100 --> 01:30:59,500
then Orson, Pratt gets off into
things that he doesn't know.

1582
01:30:59,500 --> 01:31:02,300
And that he has no business
getting into and trying to fight

1583
01:31:02,300 --> 01:31:05,200
what I'm teaching.
And, you know, and he gets

1584
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:08,400
himself into trouble.
And so the apostles in 1858,

1585
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:12,100
wanted to, you know why?
To straighten your wide to

1586
01:31:12,100 --> 01:31:15,100
discipline or subtract in some
way and bringing me take him to

1587
01:31:15,100 --> 01:31:17,800
the Woodshed so to speak and
probably excommunicated.

1588
01:31:17,900 --> 01:31:20,600
Yeah, and Brigham Young was the
one who kind of has like, no we

1589
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,400
need to bear with brother
orison.

1590
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:26,400
If he cut him up into a thousand
pieces, every piece of him would

1591
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:31,400
testify that Mormonism is true.
And in 1860, they again have a

1592
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:36,100
couple more meetings and
conflict with Orson Pratt and

1593
01:31:36,100 --> 01:31:39,600
you see that all the apostles
are supporting Brigham Young

1594
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:42,800
Orson, Heights us.
I have no problem with Adam

1595
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:46,000
being my God and he says, and I
don't see any conflict between

1596
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,300
what Brigham Young teaches and
what Joseph Smith taught even

1597
01:31:48,300 --> 01:31:51,100
though or sprats trying to say
that there is a conflict and

1598
01:31:51,100 --> 01:31:54,400
they basically say that Orson
Pratt has been with us for so

1599
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:56,100
long.
You know what would even do with

1600
01:31:56,100 --> 01:31:58,800
his life if he's not you know
with us anymore.

1601
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:00,700
And so they're like he's been
with us too long.

1602
01:32:00,900 --> 01:32:03,500
We need to bear with him.
If he can just promise to not

1603
01:32:03,500 --> 01:32:07,200
teach against we know what
Brigham Young has been laying

1604
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,000
out as dr.
You know in that again I'm going

1605
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:14,200
to go back to Those are the sort
of stories about Brigham Young

1606
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:15,700
that get lost.
Right?

1607
01:32:15,700 --> 01:32:19,000
Is granite Brigham.
He's got a temper.

1608
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,200
That's again, one of the reasons
I can probably identify with

1609
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:23,700
brick.
I'm a little bit, right?

1610
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:26,400
It's one of those things where
I'm like, I get it right.

1611
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,500
It would pardon expression.
It pissed me off to write like,

1612
01:32:29,500 --> 01:32:33,700
dude, we're funding your mission
and we're funding, the printing

1613
01:32:33,700 --> 01:32:36,900
of things, can we?
If you can't get behind it, can

1614
01:32:36,900 --> 01:32:39,600
you at least not broach the
subject, right?

1615
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:43,900
So, I get where we're bringing.
Is mad, but in the same at the

1616
01:32:43,900 --> 01:32:47,900
same time Brigham's like but I
see his heart.

1617
01:32:47,900 --> 01:32:51,700
He's a good man, right?
And and I can stand to have a

1618
01:32:51,700 --> 01:32:55,200
disagreement with a good man and
I loved him and I don't want him

1619
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,300
gone.
I think it just points out again

1620
01:32:57,300 --> 01:33:00,100
bringing Humanity there.
Sorry side note on that.

1621
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,700
Oh absolutely.
That fits perfectly.

1622
01:33:04,100 --> 01:33:09,200
And so in in contrast to Orson
Pratt, where he's kind of making

1623
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:12,300
subtle statements, Would
contradict the atom God

1624
01:33:12,300 --> 01:33:14,300
Doctrine, and some of his
Publications.

1625
01:33:14,700 --> 01:33:17,300
The Saints in England were
actually when you look at what

1626
01:33:17,300 --> 01:33:20,500
they were doing, Samuel W
Richards and Franklin d--

1627
01:33:20,500 --> 01:33:23,100
Richards who are in charge of
printing in England.

1628
01:33:23,100 --> 01:33:25,900
I believe they printed the
Journal of discourses, I

1629
01:33:25,900 --> 01:33:27,800
believe.
They also know that they were in

1630
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,500
charge of printing, the
millennial star, their writing

1631
01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:34,500
articles, defending the atom,
God Doctrine, and there they

1632
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:37,400
write a lot of really beautiful
stuff in defense of it.

1633
01:33:37,700 --> 01:33:40,800
And a lot of other really great
articles, you know, showing that

1634
01:33:40,900 --> 01:33:43,300
That, you know, they had the
spirit of it and they were able

1635
01:33:43,300 --> 01:33:46,900
to, you know, work in harmony
with Brigham and they were

1636
01:33:46,900 --> 01:33:49,800
dealing with the conflict of the
saints Saints, having faith

1637
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:54,100
crisis of Faith crisis is over
there, and they are trying to,

1638
01:33:54,500 --> 01:33:56,000
you know, try to help the
Saints.

1639
01:33:56,100 --> 01:33:59,000
And and you know, instead of
doing what Orson Pratt, and

1640
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:01,500
fortunately was doing in
Washington DC.

1641
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:06,900
So this is just a couple quotes
from Samuel W Richards and this

1642
01:34:06,900 --> 01:34:12,100
was in December of 1853 writes,
quote that Adam is really God

1643
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,200
and why not if there are Lords,
many and gods many as the

1644
01:34:15,208 --> 01:34:18,000
scriptures inform us.
Why should not our father?

1645
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:19,200
Adam be?
One of them.

1646
01:34:19,300 --> 01:34:22,800
He is the first, the father of
all the Human family and his

1647
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,600
glory will be above all for.
He will be gone over all

1648
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:29,100
necessarily standing as he will
through all eternity at the head

1649
01:34:29,100 --> 01:34:33,200
of those who are redeemed of his
great family in the patriarchal

1650
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,600
order of garment each.
And every ruler is independent,

1651
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:39,400
in his sphere, his rule extended
to those below and not to those

1652
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:42,700
above him in the same order.
Or while the God of a numbered

1653
01:34:42,700 --> 01:34:46,200
worlds, is acknowledged to be
the his God and Father, Adam

1654
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:49,600
still maintains his exalted
position at the head of all

1655
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:52,600
those who are saved from among
the whole family of man and he

1656
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,200
will be God over all those who
are made God's from among men

1657
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,400
and so that was Samuel, W
Richards.

1658
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:05,000
And then Franklin pretty strong.
Strong supporting statement,

1659
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:06,400
right?
Yeah, and it's actually a really

1660
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:08,100
great probably three or four
pages long.

1661
01:35:08,100 --> 01:35:09,700
I just picked a couple
sentences.

1662
01:35:09,700 --> 01:35:13,900
I really liked out of that.
And then his brother Franklin, D

1663
01:35:13,900 --> 01:35:16,100
Richards.
Also I understand wrote.

1664
01:35:16,100 --> 01:35:20,600
Some and so this is another
article and this was in June of

1665
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:24,500
1854.
He writes Adam is our father and

1666
01:35:24,500 --> 01:35:27,500
our God, but I have to say Do
not trouble yourselves.

1667
01:35:27,500 --> 01:35:30,000
Neither let the Saints be
troubled about that matter.

1668
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:32,800
Tell the saints that if this
Stone does not seem to fit into

1669
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:36,100
their great building of their
faith, just now to to roll it

1670
01:35:36,100 --> 01:35:38,500
aside, you can help them roll it
out of their way.

1671
01:35:38,500 --> 01:35:41,000
So they will not stumble against
it while at their day.

1672
01:35:41,100 --> 01:35:44,500
Duties, and it will be by short
time till they will find a place

1673
01:35:44,500 --> 01:35:47,300
in the building where no other
Stone will fit and then it will

1674
01:35:47,300 --> 01:35:49,200
be on hand.
All right, and we'll come into

1675
01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:51,500
its place in the building of
their faith with the sound of

1676
01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:55,400
the hammer or chisel.
And so I think that's really

1677
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:57,400
good where it's saying that if
you're struggling with this,

1678
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:01,300
don't throw out your faith over
it, just set it aside.

1679
01:36:01,300 --> 01:36:04,400
You know, if you need to have
some time to get some patients

1680
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,500
and to see where it fits if you
just continue in the faith, you

1681
01:36:07,500 --> 01:36:10,400
know, the says, the time will
come where you will find the

1682
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:14,400
place where this will fit in the
building of the Temple of your

1683
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,100
faith.
I think this also points out

1684
01:36:17,100 --> 01:36:21,700
something very interesting about
Mormonism in general and why it

1685
01:36:21,700 --> 01:36:24,800
could only come forth in
America, right?

1686
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:28,500
Because that's a very the
statement you just read is a

1687
01:36:28,500 --> 01:36:33,900
very Democratic, if you will
kind of statement in the sense

1688
01:36:33,900 --> 01:36:39,400
of we don't have to throw people
out over this right, give them

1689
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:43,100
time, let them work with it.
It's very charitable in many

1690
01:36:43,100 --> 01:36:45,300
ways, right?
You're talking about something

1691
01:36:45,300 --> 01:36:50,000
so fundamental as the nature of
God.

1692
01:36:51,100 --> 01:36:56,000
But yet it's extended with such
an olive branch of just set with

1693
01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:01,600
this a while.
Don't you don't have to to make

1694
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:06,300
it a issue in, which it makes or
breaks your place in the kingdom

1695
01:37:06,300 --> 01:37:11,200
of God.
And it's very different than say

1696
01:37:11,300 --> 01:37:13,500
papal decrees that are coming
out of Rome.

1697
01:37:13,900 --> 01:37:17,000
Yeah.
Or even calvinist type thinking,

1698
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,100
right?
Where it's very to the point and

1699
01:37:20,100 --> 01:37:23,100
this is the way.
Is and and what not, I find it

1700
01:37:23,100 --> 01:37:27,600
very interesting, how this is
rolled out and and the amount of

1701
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:29,400
latitude that is given the
Saints.

1702
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:34,200
In accepting that doctor.
Absolutely.

1703
01:37:34,900 --> 01:37:38,200
So, you know, and so there's
occasionally some statements by

1704
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:40,200
Brigham Young.
I think there's really only one

1705
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:45,000
statement it's at the October
1854 conference where Brigham

1706
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:48,400
Young says, I will talk as I as
though, I am a Yankee guesser

1707
01:37:48,700 --> 01:37:51,900
and he says, I will use the term
they use when they say I reckon.

1708
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,500
And so he says, I reckon this
about, I'm gone.

1709
01:37:54,500 --> 01:37:59,200
I reckon that about Adam God and
people will take that and, you

1710
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:00,800
know, take a couple quotes out
of that sir.

1711
01:38:00,900 --> 01:38:05,500
And try to make it out as though
Brigham Young doubted in his

1712
01:38:05,500 --> 01:38:09,400
mind or that there was at least
some sort of question or

1713
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:13,600
figuring out, but when you look
at the sermon in its totality,

1714
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:17,900
it definitely does not paint
that picture.

1715
01:38:17,900 --> 01:38:20,700
There's a statement in that
Sermon, Just a one-sentence

1716
01:38:20,700 --> 01:38:25,900
statement where he says I.
Okay and this yeah this is

1717
01:38:25,900 --> 01:38:30,900
October in 8 October 1854.
I tell you when you see your

1718
01:38:30,900 --> 01:38:34,300
Your father in the heavens, you
will see Adam when you see your

1719
01:38:34,300 --> 01:38:37,300
mother, that bore your spirit,
you will see mother Eve.

1720
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:41,300
And so over the years, he made a
number of statements that are

1721
01:38:41,300 --> 01:38:45,600
like this one which is from
Journal of discourses Volume 7

1722
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:49,500
page 238, you've been taught
Doctrine in abundance and I've

1723
01:38:49,500 --> 01:38:52,500
sometimes thought it a pity the
Lord has revealed quite as much

1724
01:38:52,500 --> 01:38:55,000
as he has.
And I can truly say that I

1725
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,600
believe if I'm guilty in any one
point in my Wok, before this

1726
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:00,800
people, it is telling them
things that they are not.

1727
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:04,500
Worthy of that, I've not given
unto them things, which they

1728
01:39:04,500 --> 01:39:08,400
could not receive.
So when he says that he has no

1729
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:11,600
doubt on the doctrine, he just
he thinks it's a Pity if this is

1730
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:15,100
going to cause some people to
stumble in their faith even

1731
01:39:15,100 --> 01:39:17,700
though he has no doubt in his
mind.

1732
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:20,500
This Revelation.
So in the Salt Lake School of

1733
01:39:20,508 --> 01:39:23,200
the prophets if it's okay to
jump to there.

1734
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:27,300
Absolutely.
And in June on June 9th 1874

1735
01:39:27,500 --> 01:39:30,300
they want to talk about the atom
God Doctrine, because Brigham

1736
01:39:30,300 --> 01:39:32,900
Young had Apparently just
delivered a sermon on the out of

1737
01:39:32,900 --> 01:39:35,800
God Doctrine.
And so this is just a little

1738
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:39,000
excerpt from the Salt Lake
School, the prophet minutes

1739
01:39:39,300 --> 01:39:41,500
president Daniel H.
Well said that President Brigham

1740
01:39:41,500 --> 01:39:43,700
Young touched on certain
principles and doctrines

1741
01:39:43,700 --> 01:39:47,100
yesterday and particularly that
Doctrine pertaining to Adam

1742
01:39:47,100 --> 01:39:50,000
being our father and our God.
And thought this was a proper

1743
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,700
place to call for the minds of
the Brethren and learn whether

1744
01:39:52,700 --> 01:39:54,700
we as a school endorse the
doctrine.

1745
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,900
So he Daniel H Wells, bore
powerful testimony of the truth

1746
01:39:58,900 --> 01:40:01,100
of the doctrine ever marked.
If he had ever received, You to

1747
01:40:01,100 --> 01:40:02,900
testimony of any doctor in this
church.

1748
01:40:03,100 --> 01:40:06,600
He had of the truth of this.
The endowments plainly teach it

1749
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,600
and the Bible and other
Revelations are full of it.

1750
01:40:09,900 --> 01:40:13,500
The doctrine was approved or
endorsed by Henry grow DB

1751
01:40:13,500 --> 01:40:17,500
Huntington and Joseph F Smith.
The ladder Joseph F Smith read a

1752
01:40:17,500 --> 01:40:20,900
portion of a revelation given to
the church affirming that

1753
01:40:20,900 --> 01:40:24,900
Michael or Adam is the father of
all the principal and stated

1754
01:40:24,900 --> 01:40:26,800
that the Annunciation of that
Doctrine.

1755
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:30,000
Gave him great, joy.
Aah rally said he had never

1756
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,100
heard anyone to Spew.
The doctrine to him.

1757
01:40:32,100 --> 01:40:34,700
It was perfectly natural as was
every other principle of the

1758
01:40:34,700 --> 01:40:37,100
Gospel when understood.
So, that's interesting.

1759
01:40:37,100 --> 01:40:39,300
That's at least one person
saying that he didn't ever hear

1760
01:40:39,300 --> 01:40:42,600
any real controversy from it to
answer that question.

1761
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,100
At least, one person in, Utah
said, he didn't hear anyone

1762
01:40:45,300 --> 01:40:47,500
Grumble about the atom God
Doctrine.

1763
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:51,600
Okay, so then Brigham Young
comments, then he says,

1764
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:54,000
president Brigham, Young
queried, whether the Brethren

1765
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,600
thought he was too liberal in
launching out this Doctrine

1766
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,700
before the Gentiles, he was
positive on the truth of the

1767
01:41:00,900 --> 01:41:02,800
Children.
But that we should be cautious

1768
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:06,200
about preaching on doctrines
unless we fully understand them.

1769
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:09,400
By the power of the spirit, then
they can mend themselves to the

1770
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,700
here to the hearts of our
hearers.

1771
01:41:12,500 --> 01:41:15,500
And then later on Brigham Young.
He comments on some other

1772
01:41:15,700 --> 01:41:16,900
doctrines.
He said there are many

1773
01:41:16,900 --> 01:41:19,300
Revelations given to him.
They did not receive from the

1774
01:41:19,300 --> 01:41:21,500
Prophet Joseph.
He did not receive them through

1775
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:24,100
the urim and thummim as Joseph
did but when he did receive

1776
01:41:24,100 --> 01:41:27,400
them, he knew of their truth as
much as it were possible for him

1777
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:30,000
to know of any truth.
Hmm.

1778
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:35,900
So so it doesn't sound like
there's a whole bunch of

1779
01:41:35,900 --> 01:41:40,200
pushback from the Saints in the
Deseret territory.

1780
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:45,600
At that point that for the most
part it seems to be very well

1781
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:47,500
accepted.
Yeah.

1782
01:41:47,500 --> 01:41:50,400
I think there's definitely I
think especially among you know,

1783
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:53,900
probably the more spiritual ones
who were more into the doctrine

1784
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:57,500
and understood and accepted what
Joseph Smith is teaching.

1785
01:41:57,700 --> 01:42:01,900
This Doctrine came Be a lot
easier to them than the people

1786
01:42:01,900 --> 01:42:04,500
who didn't really pay much
attention to the deeper

1787
01:42:04,500 --> 01:42:07,500
doctrines that had been taught
by Joseph Smith, you know?

1788
01:42:07,500 --> 01:42:10,400
And those ones were, probably be
the ones who struggled with it

1789
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:12,000
more.
And so I'm not saying there

1790
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:14,700
weren't any saint struggle.
Because Brigham Young didn't

1791
01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:17,400
know that there were.
Yeah, but it sounds like the

1792
01:42:17,407 --> 01:42:22,200
vast majority were were pretty
pretty quick to get on board, so

1793
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:25,000
to speak and got a testimony of
it for themselves.

1794
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:27,100
So, let me ask you this
question.

1795
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:32,100
Let's talk about the
Significance of Adam God as much

1796
01:42:32,100 --> 01:42:34,400
as we can.
We want to be respectful to the

1797
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:37,100
endowment.
But let's talk about the

1798
01:42:37,100 --> 01:42:41,600
significance in which Adam God
plays in the endowment and

1799
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:43,700
that's a good.
You know, that's a good segue

1800
01:42:43,700 --> 01:42:46,200
into that because she mentioned
I know but each Wells mentioned

1801
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:48,300
that he thought the endowment
was full of it.

1802
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:54,300
So you know, one of the things
that you know, is I only like to

1803
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:58,600
mention things about the
endowment, you know, I don't I

1804
01:42:58,608 --> 01:43:02,400
don't want to trade Anything,
sacred Rite, but Brigham Young

1805
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:05,100
did preach publicly and he did
preach in the school of the

1806
01:43:05,108 --> 01:43:08,100
prophets.
He explained that there were

1807
01:43:08,100 --> 01:43:13,100
three key characters or gods in
the creation, who were Elohim

1808
01:43:13,700 --> 01:43:18,300
Jehovah and Michael.
And so, the fact that Michael is

1809
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:21,100
one of the key creators of this
Earth.

1810
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:24,300
And, you know, some of the
accounts of the endowment in

1811
01:43:24,300 --> 01:43:26,500
early Utah.
Say that Michael is, you know,

1812
01:43:26,500 --> 01:43:30,600
the main person who's doing the
creation, That just totally

1813
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:35,500
supports the atom God Doctrine.
And the understanding that

1814
01:43:35,500 --> 01:43:39,000
Brigham Young taught with the
endowment was that this is a

1815
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:42,500
father-son grandson sort of deal
with the in debt with the

1816
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:47,100
creation and I don't have it on
me, but I just recently read in

1817
01:43:47,100 --> 01:43:50,300
one of those apologetics by I
believe Samuel W Richards.

1818
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:53,900
He mentioned when he when he's
defending the atom God Doctrine.

1819
01:43:54,200 --> 01:43:58,100
He's refers back to the
endowment ceremony and he refers

1820
01:43:58,100 --> 01:44:01,800
to the fact that Michael is the
one who's doing the creation and

1821
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:06,200
Michael reports back to Jehovah
and Jehovah reports to Elohim.

1822
01:44:07,300 --> 01:44:10,800
And so that's something and he
was endowed in Nauvoo in the

1823
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,200
Nauvoo temple.
In, in the winter of 1845 to

1824
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:18,700
1846, he had left for England on
a mission in 1851.

1825
01:44:18,900 --> 01:44:22,100
So that was not coming from
Utah.

1826
01:44:22,100 --> 01:44:25,500
Version of the endowment that
was coming from his novel

1827
01:44:25,500 --> 01:44:28,300
experience, being endowed.
And there's a lot of other

1828
01:44:28,300 --> 01:44:33,700
statements Like in the in the
Nauvoo Temple Heber C, Kimball

1829
01:44:33,700 --> 01:44:40,600
gave a great quote and this is
okay.

1830
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,000
So this is Heber C, Kimball in
the Nauvoo temple on December

1831
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:48,000
21st, 1845.
And this is in the book, The

1832
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,700
Nauvoo endowment companies,
which is a publication of all

1833
01:44:51,700 --> 01:44:54,700
the records and all the sermons
that occurred in the Nauvoo

1834
01:44:54,700 --> 01:44:57,300
Temple and a page. 120 of that
book.

1835
01:44:57,600 --> 01:44:59,700
So, Heber C, Kimball said quote
Have been.

1836
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:02,800
So speaking of the endowment
that bunch of saints and just

1837
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:05,500
recently been endowed, he
preaches, we have been taken as

1838
01:45:05,500 --> 01:45:08,600
it were from the earth and have
traveled until we have entered,

1839
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,100
the Celestial Kingdom and what
is it for?

1840
01:45:11,400 --> 01:45:14,700
It is to personify Adam.
And you discover the our God is

1841
01:45:14,700 --> 01:45:17,500
like one of us for he created us
in his own image.

1842
01:45:17,500 --> 01:45:20,700
Every man that has ever come
upon this Earth or any other

1843
01:45:20,700 --> 01:45:23,100
Earth will take the course we
have taken.

1844
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:26,400
So he's saying that, you know,
the endowment is to personify

1845
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:30,700
Adam and that's one of the key
things about the early

1846
01:45:30,700 --> 01:45:32,700
endowment.
Ceremony was there are different

1847
01:45:32,700 --> 01:45:36,100
aspects of it to kind of say
that everyone in this audience,

1848
01:45:36,100 --> 01:45:40,000
who's going through being
endowed represents Adam and Eve,

1849
01:45:40,100 --> 01:45:43,200
mhm in the ceremony.
And so they're saying that this

1850
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:45,900
is a ceremony to teach you how
to become like God, and what the

1851
01:45:45,900 --> 01:45:50,400
gods are, what it is, to become
a God and it's a recreation of

1852
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:54,200
the creation of the world and
the Garden of Eden scenario.

1853
01:45:54,700 --> 01:45:59,100
So very very much alluding to
the out of God dog.

1854
01:45:59,300 --> 01:46:01,200
And I think that's probably why
Heber C.

1855
01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:05,700
Kimball was somebody who was
very accepting of Adam God and

1856
01:46:05,700 --> 01:46:08,900
he probably preached it.
He preached it many times like

1857
01:46:08,900 --> 01:46:12,000
Brigham Young did.
And yeah, he probably was the

1858
01:46:12,008 --> 01:46:15,000
number one Apostle, who was the
defender of it right behind

1859
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:18,000
Brigham Young so.
So I think this is a good spot

1860
01:46:18,100 --> 01:46:24,200
to maybe take a moment and give
a very cursory review of what

1861
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:27,500
the atom God Doctrine.
Really says, okay.

1862
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,900
Incorrect.
You know, if you got anything to

1863
01:46:31,900 --> 01:46:37,000
add to this, that's great.
So in you have LL him who would

1864
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:40,900
be the grandfather of Michael
Jehovah?

1865
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:45,600
Who's the father of Michael?
And then Michael, who is our

1866
01:46:45,900 --> 01:46:50,100
heavenly father?
And God to whom we have to deal

1867
01:46:50,100 --> 01:46:53,000
with anything sound out of sorts
there too.

1868
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:54,600
You know.
That's okay.

1869
01:46:54,600 --> 01:46:59,200
To me the thing that should give
us the most comfort with this.

1870
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:03,900
That this is a very family
centered.

1871
01:47:05,300 --> 01:47:09,600
Dr. Right.
This is a very family-centered

1872
01:47:13,100 --> 01:47:18,700
idea of what godhood looks like.
I mean, is there anything you

1873
01:47:18,700 --> 01:47:21,500
could almost be like, you know
what, it's almost like a

1874
01:47:21,500 --> 01:47:23,800
grandfather and a father helping
out the grandson.

1875
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:27,500
Get his start.
So to speak, right to help you

1876
01:47:27,500 --> 01:47:30,700
build a place.
This is, this is for you.

1877
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:32,900
Here you go.
You've reached this point.

1878
01:47:32,900 --> 01:47:36,300
You're ready to go.
And so, I wanted to break that

1879
01:47:36,300 --> 01:47:38,900
down a little bit because I
wanted to make sure everybody

1880
01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:42,100
who maybe is listening to this,
who hasn't really encountered

1881
01:47:42,100 --> 01:47:46,000
the atom God, or who hasn't
really looked at it understands,

1882
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:48,800
what it really is.
That's a good point.

1883
01:47:48,900 --> 01:47:53,500
I'm glad you wanted to make sure
that's emphasized, So and I've

1884
01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:57,400
got probably three different
quotes supporting showing that

1885
01:47:57,400 --> 01:47:59,100
that's like.
Yeah, let's let's go with those.

1886
01:47:59,100 --> 01:48:02,900
So this is Brigham Young and the
school of the prophets and this

1887
01:48:02,900 --> 01:48:05,700
is recorded in Joseph F Smith.
It's Journal.

1888
01:48:05,700 --> 01:48:08,800
If I'm not mistaken, it's
incomplete discourse of Brigham,

1889
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:14,100
Young At Its June 17th, 1871
Elohim yehovah, and Michael were

1890
01:48:14,100 --> 01:48:17,900
father, son, and Grandson.
They made this Earth and Michael

1891
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:21,900
became Adam.
And so, then also, the women of

1892
01:48:21,900 --> 01:48:25,800
Mormon Dumb Book which was
published in 1877 with Brigham,

1893
01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:28,400
Young's consent, Brigham Young
thought the book was a great

1894
01:48:28,400 --> 01:48:32,900
idea and approved of it is book
set and it's, you know, Edward

1895
01:48:32,900 --> 01:48:35,000
to literacy author.
But it's argued he had.

1896
01:48:35,100 --> 01:48:39,000
Collaboration with Eliza R snow
and other Relief Society leaders

1897
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:43,000
in writing this book.
So it says, Adam is a great

1898
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,900
Archangel of this creation.
He is Michael, he is the ancient

1899
01:48:45,900 --> 01:48:47,700
days.
He's the father of our elder

1900
01:48:47,700 --> 01:48:49,000
brother.
Jesus Christ.

1901
01:48:49,100 --> 01:48:52,300
The father of him who shall also
come as Messiah to rain.

1902
01:48:52,500 --> 01:48:55,200
He's the father of the spirits
as well as the Tabernacles of

1903
01:48:55,200 --> 01:48:59,300
the Son and Daughters of man.
Adam, Michael is one of the

1904
01:48:59,300 --> 01:49:02,600
grand mystical names in the
works of creation redemptions

1905
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:06,300
and Resurrection.
Jehovah is the second and higher

1906
01:49:06,300 --> 01:49:10,700
name, and Elohim signifying the
gods, as the first or and I put

1907
01:49:10,700 --> 01:49:14,200
in Brackets or highest name of
the celestial Trinity.

1908
01:49:14,500 --> 01:49:17,300
Michael was a Celestial
resurrected being of another

1909
01:49:17,300 --> 01:49:20,500
world.
And so then even earlier as

1910
01:49:20,500 --> 01:49:26,400
early, as I mentioned the 7w
Richards in Billy that's 1853.

1911
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:28,700
Also teach understanding the
endowment that way.

1912
01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:33,500
And you also have apostate, John
Hyde in his book Mormonism, its

1913
01:49:33,500 --> 01:49:35,800
leaders.
And Designs says Joseph is the

1914
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:39,000
God of this generation.
Jesus is his God.

1915
01:49:39,100 --> 01:49:43,400
Michael or Adam is Jesus Is God
and Father, and Jehovah is the

1916
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:47,600
god of Adam and Jehovah is
inferior to Elohim, who isn't

1917
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:51,600
turned subject to the Grand
Council of the assembled gods of

1918
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:55,600
infinity.
So just some supporting quotes

1919
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:57,500
there helping it throw off your.
Okay?

1920
01:49:57,500 --> 01:50:03,900
So now that we've blown the mind
of whatever well taught LDS

1921
01:50:03,900 --> 01:50:09,700
person, That Jehovah is actually
the father of Michael.

1922
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:15,500
What would you say to them right
now as they're reeling hearing

1923
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:17,100
this for the first time?
Yeah.

1924
01:50:17,100 --> 01:50:20,700
That can be a big shock to a lot
of people who have really dug

1925
01:50:20,700 --> 01:50:24,700
into the modern LDS endowment
and really look at that thing.

1926
01:50:24,700 --> 01:50:28,500
As scripture in the unfortunate
reality is that the endowment

1927
01:50:28,500 --> 01:50:34,500
has undergone many significant
changes over time and the the

1928
01:50:34,500 --> 01:50:38,900
doctrine that Elohim equals God,
the father and Jehovah equals

1929
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:41,900
Jesus.
Understanding of the endowment

1930
01:50:42,100 --> 01:50:45,600
is something that really was not
formulated until the early

1931
01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:48,000
1900s, and we're going to cross
that bridge.

1932
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:50,200
When we get there, I want to
stay in this time frame for

1933
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:53,800
right now whenever when all the
parts and pieces are together in

1934
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:57,500
the endowment because you bring
up a good point which is the

1935
01:50:57,500 --> 01:51:00,500
endowment has gone through many
changes Rio.

1936
01:51:00,500 --> 01:51:04,700
I should say the modern-day LDS
endowment has gone through many,

1937
01:51:04,700 --> 01:51:08,000
many changes and it's my
opinion.

1938
01:51:10,100 --> 01:51:15,500
Being someone who has received
the endowment in a temple from a

1939
01:51:16,700 --> 01:51:20,100
fundamentalist group.
We need to change that name to

1940
01:51:20,100 --> 01:51:22,700
Orthodox just because
fundamentalism carry such a

1941
01:51:22,700 --> 01:51:26,200
negative connotation now.
But anyway in a temple of a

1942
01:51:26,208 --> 01:51:30,100
fundamentalist church is that
something that Ben Shafer is

1943
01:51:30,100 --> 01:51:32,200
said before about?
I like the term Orthodox.

1944
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:36,000
Yes exactly.
What Ben and I are are in the

1945
01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:38,500
same church, he's great.
He is great.

1946
01:51:38,500 --> 01:51:40,000
I love been to death.
I could sit and listen.

1947
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:44,800
The been all day long.
But anyway, as a guy in myself,

1948
01:51:44,800 --> 01:51:49,900
who's taken the LDS endowment
and then also taken the full

1949
01:51:49,900 --> 01:51:54,100
endowment, I know exactly what
the LDS church was trying to do,

1950
01:51:54,100 --> 01:51:58,000
which is they are trying to
strip that thing of anything

1951
01:51:58,300 --> 01:52:03,200
that had anything at all to do
with the Adam God Doctrine on

1952
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:06,200
that subject.
So it's funny is, I know an

1953
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:09,800
individual who left
fundamentalism and went back to

1954
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:11,800
the church.
And you wanted to just kind of

1955
01:52:12,100 --> 01:52:15,000
have this little box of truth
and not have to get into any of

1956
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:18,400
the fundamentalist doctrines and
his wife was like, I don't know

1957
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:20,000
why he doesn't want to go to the
temple.

1958
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:22,300
Let's go to the temple.
Let's go to the temple and he

1959
01:52:22,300 --> 01:52:25,700
goes, he goes and he told me.
He says, she doesn't realize

1960
01:52:25,700 --> 01:52:28,200
that I don't want to go to the
temple because that throws all

1961
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:31,000
of this fundamentalism back in
my face.

1962
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:34,700
All of these things because it's
all still hidden there, even

1963
01:52:34,700 --> 01:52:38,200
though there's been so much
stripped and there's been layers

1964
01:52:38,200 --> 01:52:41,600
added to try to kind of Use case
you know?

1965
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:44,000
Yeah and it's all over the
place, right?

1966
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:49,300
And if you have a working
knowledge of of Adam God you're

1967
01:52:49,300 --> 01:52:52,600
still going to see it, there's
no way to get rid of it, right?

1968
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:57,100
You'd have to completely change
the entire drama so to speak

1969
01:52:57,700 --> 01:53:02,800
because it's all over the place,
all over the place and and it's

1970
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,600
in an effort not to trample upon
sacred things.

1971
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:10,000
I can't go into a lot of it, but
it's still there.

1972
01:53:10,100 --> 01:53:15,800
R and so in this timeframe,
there there's even a lecture at

1973
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:20,000
the veil and without again,
trampling on sacred things.

1974
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:23,000
It's kind of a summary of
everything that has happened

1975
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:29,200
into the temple to that moment
and it is Laden with Adam, God

1976
01:53:29,200 --> 01:53:32,800
Doctrine.
I mean, it is an explanation of

1977
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:37,100
the atom God Doctrine, and it's
an explanation of why it's

1978
01:53:37,100 --> 01:53:42,200
important to us.
So, In my estimation that could

1979
01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:46,100
be like the golden period for
Mormonism, right?

1980
01:53:46,100 --> 01:53:51,900
Because you have it all, you
have Adam God, you have law of

1981
01:53:51,900 --> 01:53:54,200
consecration, you have plural
marriage.

1982
01:53:54,200 --> 01:53:56,300
It's all there, it's all
functioning.

1983
01:53:56,300 --> 01:54:01,300
It's all working.
What happens Jacob when when do

1984
01:54:01,300 --> 01:54:03,300
things start going off?
The rails.

1985
01:54:03,300 --> 01:54:06,000
Let's not jump to the 1900's
right away.

1986
01:54:06,300 --> 01:54:08,300
Let's look at that. 20-year
period.

1987
01:54:08,300 --> 01:54:12,800
Right before that only 20 years
where things begin to go off the

1988
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:15,200
rails in your estimation.
What happens.

1989
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:18,900
So I would say that they're
actually, you know, so great

1990
01:54:18,900 --> 01:54:21,900
thing pointing out, you know,
lecture the veil that kind of

1991
01:54:21,900 --> 01:54:26,100
shows that Brigham Young didn't
have any doubt in his mind about

1992
01:54:26,100 --> 01:54:29,300
Adam God's truthfulness because
he goes and he effectively

1993
01:54:29,300 --> 01:54:33,000
canonize has it as being a
temple teaching meaning that

1994
01:54:33,000 --> 01:54:36,800
it's might not be something for
the world, but something all the

1995
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,600
saints should be.
It should be taught and should.

1996
01:54:40,100 --> 01:54:43,300
And so he goes and he spent
several weeks in the last, this

1997
01:54:43,300 --> 01:54:46,300
is the last year of Brigham
Young's life in 1877.

1998
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:50,500
And he wants to spend several
weeks getting this lecture, or

1999
01:54:51,700 --> 01:54:53,800
eats going through the temple
ceremony and wide to make sure

2000
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:55,500
everything is laid out
perfectly.

2001
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:59,100
And he says, I want to give you
an ensample to carry out an all

2002
01:54:59,100 --> 01:55:02,700
the temples until the coming of
the son of man and he has his

2003
01:55:02,700 --> 01:55:07,300
son Brigham Young Junior, he has
Wilford Woodruff and he has L

2004
01:55:07,300 --> 01:55:09,600
Jon Udell.
All working together with him.

2005
01:55:10,100 --> 01:55:13,400
To basically summer, you know,
basically formulate the

2006
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:15,200
ceremonies to make sure
everything's right.

2007
01:55:15,500 --> 01:55:18,100
And one of the things they do
and this is right as the st.

2008
01:55:18,100 --> 01:55:21,000
George temples being completed,
you know, they've gone probably,

2009
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:25,400
you know, almost 30 years
without without a temple.

2010
01:55:25,400 --> 01:55:27,900
They had the endowment house in
early Utah.

2011
01:55:27,900 --> 01:55:32,000
But Brigham Young said, you
know, to really experience this.

2012
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:35,000
You need a full Temple and so
they're getting the st.

2013
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:37,600
George temple.
You know, basically completed an

2014
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:41,800
1877 and dedicated and you
Through and he's completing all

2015
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:43,900
the ceremonies and he goes
through and he wants this

2016
01:55:43,900 --> 01:55:47,600
lecture, the veil laid out to
really summarize the core

2017
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:51,700
aspects of the atom God Doctrine
and teach it to the Saints.

2018
01:55:51,700 --> 01:55:55,900
And so that became part of the
temple ceremony, not just in the

2019
01:55:55,900 --> 01:55:57,300
st.
George temple, but it also

2020
01:55:57,300 --> 01:56:00,200
became Incorporated in say the
Salt Lake Temple.

2021
01:56:00,200 --> 01:56:03,600
When the Salt Lake Temple was
completed as well as the other

2022
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:06,900
temples that they that were
completed in that early Utah

2023
01:56:06,900 --> 01:56:10,300
time period.
So but there was actually Lee.

2024
01:56:11,100 --> 01:56:14,800
They were teaching these
doctrines before 1877 in the

2025
01:56:14,800 --> 01:56:16,700
temple.
There was always kind of

2026
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:20,700
explanation lecture kind of
summarizing what you learned in

2027
01:56:20,700 --> 01:56:23,500
this endowment right before they
do the veil ceremony.

2028
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:27,300
And you know, this was just kind
of canonizing it.

2029
01:56:27,300 --> 01:56:31,200
He wanted a written account of
this doctrine that will be not

2030
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:35,000
deviated from but would be red
and all the temples to kind of

2031
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:37,900
explain what the endowment is
supposed to teach you about our

2032
01:56:37,900 --> 01:56:41,700
relationship to Michael Adam.
Right.

2033
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:48,800
And, and It's yeah.
I mean you can't have a Mormon

2034
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:53,100
temple experience.
Let me rephrase that I think

2035
01:56:53,100 --> 01:56:55,500
it's really hard to get the
ideas.

2036
01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:59,000
That Joseph Smith were trying to
communicate through temples

2037
01:56:59,300 --> 01:57:04,200
without a working understanding
of the the atom God Doctrine.

2038
01:57:05,700 --> 01:57:11,000
So, let's let's now look at
that, that twenty fifteen to

2039
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:14,600
twenty year period.
Where something happens, right?

2040
01:57:14,700 --> 01:57:19,600
And you begin to see the
beginnings, I don't know how to

2041
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:22,500
put it.
I try to be gentle but the

2042
01:57:22,500 --> 01:57:27,400
beginnings of apostasy within
the church itself, right?

2043
01:57:27,700 --> 01:57:30,000
What what in your estimation
what happens here?

2044
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:32,200
What's the Catalyst for that
happening?

2045
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:34,900
So one thing I would add is that
Brigham Young?

2046
01:57:35,100 --> 01:57:39,400
Was not the only Prophet that
taught the atom God Doctrine,

2047
01:57:39,400 --> 01:57:41,000
correct.
Because because we know John

2048
01:57:41,000 --> 01:57:45,300
Taylor, did you know, Wilfred
Woodruff did and clear up to

2049
01:57:45,308 --> 01:57:47,400
Joseph Smith if I'm not
mistaken?

2050
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:49,900
Yeah.
And I think we read in the Salt

2051
01:57:49,900 --> 01:57:53,300
Lake School of prophets minutes
where Joseph F Smith for his

2052
01:57:53,300 --> 01:57:58,100
testimony of it right and that
was 1873 so yeah this is

2053
01:57:58,100 --> 01:58:01,100
something that the leader still
continued to understand and

2054
01:58:01,100 --> 01:58:04,900
teach but maybe they weren't as
public about it but we do.

2055
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:09,400
You know that John Taylor and
say George Q Cannon, according

2056
01:58:09,400 --> 01:58:12,200
to the George Q Cannon journals.
That were just released a couple

2057
01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:14,900
of years ago there were a couple
Adam God statements he writes in

2058
01:58:14,907 --> 01:58:17,600
his journal including I had a
great conversation with

2059
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:21,200
President Taylor about our
Father in heaven and he puts in

2060
01:58:21,208 --> 01:58:25,600
parentheses Adam and I'm like
man if only I could have been a

2061
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:29,100
fly on the wall to hear that
conversation between John Taylor

2062
01:58:29,400 --> 01:58:31,800
and George Q Cannon.
Talk about how Adam is our

2063
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:33,600
father and has.
So let me ask you this what was

2064
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:38,200
the impetus What was the cause
because you get the feeling

2065
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:41,000
okay.
Joseph's got to play it.

2066
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:44,600
Cool, so to speak, right?
While he's in Nauvoo because he

2067
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:48,200
understands there's there's
enemies within the congregation,

2068
01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:49,700
right?
There's people coming to hear

2069
01:58:49,700 --> 01:58:53,300
him speak who are looking to
hang him later with his own

2070
01:58:53,300 --> 01:58:55,500
words.
So he's got to be reserved.

2071
01:58:55,600 --> 01:58:59,300
Brigham gets out west.
And it's like, you know what?

2072
01:58:59,300 --> 01:59:01,600
It's just us.
We're going to let this fly,

2073
01:59:01,700 --> 01:59:04,600
right?
And he just gives it And then

2074
01:59:04,600 --> 01:59:07,100
something happens like you were
saying where they're not as

2075
01:59:07,100 --> 01:59:10,100
public with it again.
What is the reason that they all

2076
01:59:10,100 --> 01:59:14,000
the sudden pulled back a little
bit, where Brigham was so bold

2077
01:59:14,500 --> 01:59:19,300
now they're pulling back, I'm
part of it might have been that

2078
01:59:19,300 --> 01:59:22,600
the Joseph fights, the are LDS
church who followed Joseph

2079
01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:26,700
Smith, the third of the profits
son who and they basically

2080
01:59:26,700 --> 01:59:31,700
reject all the Nauvoo doctrines.
They reject the pre-existence

2081
01:59:31,700 --> 01:59:33,700
plural, marriage and diamonds
Temple.

2082
01:59:33,900 --> 01:59:35,700
Emily's.
They reject the whole shebang,

2083
01:59:35,700 --> 01:59:40,100
not just plural marriage and
they come out kind of batting

2084
01:59:40,100 --> 01:59:43,500
against Adam God.
And I've heard, some people say

2085
01:59:43,500 --> 01:59:47,000
that Joseph Smith, the third
probably preached against Adam

2086
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:50,200
God possibly as much as Brigham
Young preached for it.

2087
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:54,000
You know they thought it was
something to ridicule and Helen

2088
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:58,600
Mark Kimball as one of Joseph
Smith's plural wives she writes

2089
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:02,300
kind of Defense of Utah
Mormonism and she's kind of

2090
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:05,000
bottling Joe.
Ozzie Smith at third and saying

2091
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:07,500
that.
Look at this 1839 sermon by your

2092
02:00:07,500 --> 02:00:10,700
father about Adam and look at
all these things.

2093
02:00:10,700 --> 02:00:12,700
He's saying about.
This wasn't Brigham Young that

2094
02:00:12,700 --> 02:00:14,800
started this this came from your
dad.

2095
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:19,300
You were attacking what your dad
taught and so but there seemed

2096
02:00:19,300 --> 02:00:22,500
to be kind of a shift where
they're thinking, maybe we

2097
02:00:22,500 --> 02:00:25,800
should keep this Doctrine not as
much for the world who will

2098
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:27,900
ridicule it, but it should be
something that's.

2099
02:00:27,900 --> 02:00:30,600
The Saints should know.
And so it's something that was

2100
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:34,500
more emphasized in a private
Temple setting or ask The Profit

2101
02:00:34,500 --> 02:00:38,400
setting and not so much in
public sermons as you saw in the

2102
02:00:38,400 --> 02:00:41,800
1850s when they were kind of
more isolated from the world and

2103
02:00:41,800 --> 02:00:45,500
they had that privacy and that
freedom to be as open as they

2104
02:00:45,500 --> 02:00:46,500
wanted about.
What?

2105
02:00:46,500 --> 02:00:48,900
So, you think it was, probably
one of those things where it's

2106
02:00:48,900 --> 02:00:52,200
like, look, we throw this at
anybody who wants to hear about

2107
02:00:52,200 --> 02:00:54,600
the gospel and we're going to
lose them right away.

2108
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:59,000
This just like we when I say we
I mean the early Saints had to

2109
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:03,200
be brought to this point in
increments line upon line

2110
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:06,800
precept upon Um, precept, so a
Converse going to as well.

2111
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:10,200
So it probably starts off with
some pretty noble intentions,

2112
02:01:10,200 --> 02:01:11,200
right?
Yeah.

2113
02:01:11,400 --> 02:01:16,500
And, and nonetheless, it
withdrawals, a little, it comes

2114
02:01:16,500 --> 02:01:22,900
back to being more of a It's
less talked about as well.

2115
02:01:22,900 --> 02:01:27,400
I'm trying to say so we've kind
of established why that happened

2116
02:01:27,500 --> 02:01:29,600
now?
Tell me why.

2117
02:01:29,600 --> 02:01:36,500
Tell me when in your mind I
certainly have mine when the LDS

2118
02:01:36,500 --> 02:01:40,500
church decides we're done with
Adam God.

2119
02:01:41,100 --> 02:01:45,500
So I would say that because
we're trying to, you know, don't

2120
02:01:45,500 --> 02:01:50,400
want to go on forever.
I would say that you do see John

2121
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:54,000
Taylor is still, it's still in
the temple under John Taylor,

2122
02:01:54,100 --> 02:01:56,800
he's talking with George Q,
Cannon about, Adam God, George Q

2123
02:01:56,800 --> 02:01:58,700
Cannon.
This still teaching his son,

2124
02:01:58,700 --> 02:02:02,900
Adam, God, it's still something
that they believe in, there's

2125
02:02:02,900 --> 02:02:06,500
actually a sermon that that John
Taylor gives.

2126
02:02:06,500 --> 02:02:09,700
I don't know if it's a private
setting, I assume it is, in

2127
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:15,600
January 13th 1880, where he
explains, Adam God and says that

2128
02:02:15,600 --> 02:02:17,800
came from Joseph Smith.
I don't know if that would be

2129
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:20,300
something you'd be interested.
In.

2130
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:25,300
So this is an L John nuttall's,
diary andaluz sheet of paper, at

2131
02:02:25,300 --> 02:02:29,000
the end of his 1879 diary here
Accords, kind of the sermon by

2132
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:31,900
John Taylor, or notes from it.
He says, I hurt.

2133
02:02:31,900 --> 02:02:35,300
So this is John Taylor speaking.
I heard Joseph Smith say the

2134
02:02:35,300 --> 02:02:39,000
atom is the ancient days spoken
of by Daniel Joseph treat,

2135
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:42,700
traced the priesthood from Adam
and so this is interesting

2136
02:02:42,700 --> 02:02:46,100
referring back to 1839 thing to
Peter, James, and John.

2137
02:02:46,100 --> 02:02:48,800
And then to Joseph and all who
have held a portion of the

2138
02:02:48,808 --> 02:02:50,000
priesthood would have to give an
account.

2139
02:02:50,100 --> 02:02:53,400
Their stewardship or priesthood
to the one from whom they

2140
02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:56,400
received it, rendering up an
account of your stewardship to

2141
02:02:56,400 --> 02:02:58,500
the one that preceded you but
you do not.

2142
02:02:58,500 --> 02:03:00,400
Give up your priesthood.
Adam heard.

2143
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:02,200
The voice of the Lord walking in
the garden.

2144
02:03:02,200 --> 02:03:05,300
Adam had a God then.
And when we get to God our

2145
02:03:05,300 --> 02:03:07,000
Father, we are told to approach
him.

2146
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:12,100
In the name of Jesus, Adam is
the father of our bodies who is

2147
02:03:12,100 --> 02:03:15,400
to say, he is not also the
father of our Spirits.

2148
02:03:16,100 --> 02:03:20,700
So John Taylor, believed in this
and Wilford Woodruff So believed

2149
02:03:20,700 --> 02:03:24,600
in the atom God, Doctrine.
Just as he wouldn't be rich, I

2150
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:27,000
doubt you'd be recording it in
as friendly terms in his

2151
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:29,100
journal.
As he did as Brigham preached

2152
02:03:29,100 --> 02:03:31,000
it.
If he didn't believe in it, he

2153
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:33,500
called Brigham Young's October
1854.

2154
02:03:33,500 --> 02:03:37,200
Sermon on Adam God one of the
greatest sermons that had ever

2155
02:03:37,200 --> 02:03:41,300
been preached and he defended it
in the school of the prophets as

2156
02:03:41,300 --> 02:03:45,000
well quick quote from him, he
said I wish to refer to the

2157
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:48,400
first Doctrine preach that Adam
was our father and God in the

2158
02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:49,900
Revelation called the olive
leaf.

2159
02:03:50,100 --> 02:03:53,000
And that's DNC 88.
It says the devil gathered

2160
02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:55,100
together.
The hosts of hell and Michael

2161
02:03:55,100 --> 02:03:57,900
the Archangel gathered together,
the host of heaven.

2162
02:03:58,200 --> 02:04:01,300
And he overcame the devil and
his angels and this is the

2163
02:04:01,300 --> 02:04:04,700
Battle of the great God.
And so that's another early

2164
02:04:04,700 --> 02:04:08,700
revelation of Joseph Smith that
he's citing to support Adam

2165
02:04:08,700 --> 02:04:10,800
Garden.
He citing that in the school of

2166
02:04:10,800 --> 02:04:14,600
the prophets on January 24th
1868.

2167
02:04:14,900 --> 02:04:17,800
So by the time, you know,
Wilfred what, John Taylor has to

2168
02:04:17,808 --> 02:04:21,100
go into hiding and so, So, and
he dies in hiding,

2169
02:04:21,100 --> 02:04:25,300
unfortunately, from the effects
of that and admins Tucker.

2170
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:26,500
Yep.
Yep.

2171
02:04:26,500 --> 02:04:29,100
Because he wouldn't cave in, on
the principles that God had

2172
02:04:29,100 --> 02:04:31,600
revealed to him, right?
And he said, the Lord had

2173
02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:34,000
directed him that he must
sustain them.

2174
02:04:34,500 --> 02:04:38,400
So after John Taylor passes
away, Wilford Woodruff becomes

2175
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:41,300
the next president of the church
and there actually is a

2176
02:04:41,308 --> 02:04:47,400
controversy about 1891 1892
about the atom God Doctrine

2177
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:51,600
under Wilford Woodruff, which
was the No known as the bunker

2178
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:55,300
Bill trial, where Edward bunker
senior and Edward bunker,

2179
02:04:55,300 --> 02:04:58,400
Junior, a bunker Bill.
We're kind of teaching that the

2180
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:02,200
temple ceremony was wrong, for
teaching the atom, God Doctrine

2181
02:05:02,800 --> 02:05:05,800
and Wilford Woodruff and George
Q.

2182
02:05:05,800 --> 02:05:09,400
Cannon actually end up going
down there to correct.

2183
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:13,000
Edward bunker on this thing.
I believe it was the sun.

2184
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:16,600
I'm not sure if the father
actually got corrected but they

2185
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:20,400
go down and they say no this is
a Doctrine and it's Uh, dr.

2186
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:22,100
Of the temple.
And don't, you know, you

2187
02:05:22,100 --> 02:05:24,900
shouldn't be teaching against
the temple Doctrine.

2188
02:05:24,900 --> 02:05:28,700
Even if you might have
disagreements with it and George

2189
02:05:28,700 --> 02:05:32,700
Q Cannon actually goes out and
does some great apologetics

2190
02:05:32,700 --> 02:05:37,400
defending the atom God Doctrine
against Edward bunker and so,

2191
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:40,400
you can see that the first
presidency of that time is still

2192
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:47,500
defending the atom God Doctrine.
But by 1892, they're saying it's

2193
02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:49,900
true, but don't teach it in the
sunday-school city.

2194
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:51,900
Or it's.
So if you're saying that we

2195
02:05:51,900 --> 02:05:54,900
can't teach it to children as
they're being raised in the

2196
02:05:54,907 --> 02:05:59,000
gospel, you know that's going to
create problems when they you

2197
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:01,600
know, grow up and all of a
sudden go through the temple on

2198
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:02,800
now.
Their entire.

2199
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:04,900
Yeah.
They don't have any foundation

2200
02:06:04,900 --> 02:06:08,100
to godhood, it's shattered.
Yeah.

2201
02:06:08,100 --> 02:06:11,600
If you don't prepare your kids
and raise them up in the truth

2202
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:14,300
that you understand it, you
know, are you really going to

2203
02:06:14,308 --> 02:06:17,300
expect them to be able to carry
on the gospel as you had

2204
02:06:17,300 --> 02:06:20,200
received it?
And so that's probably the The

2205
02:06:20,200 --> 02:06:25,600
first, you know, the the first
nail in the coffin of Adam, God

2206
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:28,300
is saying, don't teach in the
Sunday schools then I believe

2207
02:06:28,300 --> 02:06:33,100
it's in general conference in
1895 Wilford Woodruff guy gets

2208
02:06:33,100 --> 02:06:36,500
up and he says you know there's
all these people who are having

2209
02:06:36,500 --> 02:06:40,400
all these questions about the
who God is to Adam is who Christ

2210
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:44,500
is who Jehovah is?
He says leave it all alone.

2211
02:06:44,600 --> 02:06:48,100
It shouldn't concern us you.
We shouldn't be getting into

2212
02:06:48,100 --> 02:06:51,500
contentions about these matters
and we You know, you know, and

2213
02:06:51,500 --> 02:06:55,000
so he basically is saying that
you shouldn't even be worrying

2214
02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:57,900
about the Mysteries or
understanding these things as

2215
02:06:57,900 --> 02:07:00,300
they have been taught.
He still, it's still being

2216
02:07:00,300 --> 02:07:02,600
taught in the temple at this
time, but they're starting to

2217
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:06,000
say, stop teaching.
This stop arguing about this.

2218
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:10,700
Stop worrying about this and you
know, this is how a lot of

2219
02:07:10,700 --> 02:07:14,200
principles start to go away in
the 1890s.

2220
02:07:14,200 --> 02:07:16,100
Adam God is one of those
principles.

2221
02:07:16,100 --> 02:07:21,700
I want to stop there for just a
second because I think that that

2222
02:07:21,700 --> 02:07:29,500
how Adam God comes under attack
and this time is so important as

2223
02:07:29,500 --> 02:07:35,300
a lesson to us as anybody within
Mormon them, because it shows

2224
02:07:35,300 --> 02:07:39,300
what's happening to the country
as a whole right now, right?

2225
02:07:39,300 --> 02:07:45,800
And that is I will I will never
not say that.

2226
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:49,200
I think some obviously, there's
some people whose whose

2227
02:07:49,200 --> 02:07:52,800
intentions are Nefarious, but by
and large, I think most people

2228
02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:56,100
are like trying to help out
trying to make things better,

2229
02:07:56,600 --> 02:07:59,700
but we all know the old saying
that the road to hell is paved

2230
02:07:59,700 --> 02:08:05,100
with good intentions, right?
And unity for Unity sake.

2231
02:08:05,100 --> 02:08:08,900
Isn't necessarily a good thing
all the time, right?

2232
02:08:08,900 --> 02:08:12,000
And, and we see that definitely
here.

2233
02:08:12,600 --> 02:08:15,700
When it comes to the atom God
Doctrine, plural, marriage, the

2234
02:08:15,700 --> 02:08:19,400
early church teachings because
they're like look, let's stop

2235
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:20,900
arguing.
About it, right?

2236
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:23,400
I'm sure at this point
Mormonism, starting to gain some

2237
02:08:23,400 --> 02:08:27,800
more followers from outside of
Utah, and rather than work with

2238
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:29,500
these people.
They're like, let's just not

2239
02:08:29,500 --> 02:08:33,300
talk about it, and let's be
unified on the things we can be

2240
02:08:33,300 --> 02:08:39,200
unified on, but your unifying on
wrong principles now because of

2241
02:08:39,200 --> 02:08:41,600
that, and I think that's a very
important point to make.

2242
02:08:41,900 --> 02:08:46,500
Because so often, we're told
just be United, just be United.

2243
02:08:46,500 --> 02:08:50,600
Well, there's some principles
that are worth fighting for This

2244
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,900
would have been one of them and
we can see the Folly.

2245
02:08:53,500 --> 02:08:58,000
I am very compassionate and
charitable towards Wilford

2246
02:08:58,000 --> 02:09:01,400
Woodruff because I feel like he
was putting a no-win situation

2247
02:09:02,100 --> 02:09:05,900
and it took me a long time to
get over my anger towards

2248
02:09:05,900 --> 02:09:08,300
Wilfred, just like it took me a
while to get over my anger

2249
02:09:08,300 --> 02:09:14,000
towards the LDS Church.
Having said that, I can

2250
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:17,000
comfortably say you probably
made some mistakes in the sense

2251
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:19,900
of you probably should just
planted your flag on the truth

2252
02:09:20,300 --> 02:09:22,900
and come hell or high water.
We're going to go with that.

2253
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:29,000
And I again I think it's just a
super important lesson that that

2254
02:09:29,000 --> 02:09:31,700
there's some things that are
worth fighting for and unity for

2255
02:09:31,700 --> 02:09:34,800
Unity sake.
Isn't necessarily a good thing

2256
02:09:35,100 --> 02:09:38,100
and I think the church is still,
the LDS church is still fighting

2257
02:09:38,100 --> 02:09:40,400
that fight.
Only this time, they're fighting

2258
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:43,100
it on.
Things that are so fundamental,

2259
02:09:43,600 --> 02:09:46,100
right?
Things like gay marriage things

2260
02:09:46,100 --> 02:09:50,400
like where we're going to fit
into the society, given the the

2261
02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:54,900
vaccine mandates, those sorts of
things instead of standing on

2262
02:09:54,900 --> 02:09:58,800
truth and planning our flag.
And I find it interesting that

2263
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:01,000
that's what happened with the
atom God Doctrine.

2264
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:03,200
And that's what's happening
right now, with some of those

2265
02:10:03,200 --> 02:10:07,000
other issues I just mentioned
Yeah, absolutely.

2266
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:12,500
So you still have so they're
starting to pull back from Adam

2267
02:10:12,500 --> 02:10:14,900
God.
But you still have the leaders

2268
02:10:14,900 --> 02:10:20,700
privately affirming their belief
in it Edward Stevenson in.

2269
02:10:20,700 --> 02:10:23,200
Is this okay?
Yeah, okay, cool.

2270
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:26,400
I was just yeah, please do,
yeah.

2271
02:10:26,400 --> 02:10:31,600
So Edward Stephenson is Journal.
I believe in 1897 or 1898 is

2272
02:10:31,600 --> 02:10:34,000
meeting with the lens of snow
and talking to him about the

2273
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:37,000
endowment and They're sharing
their ideas about different

2274
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:40,200
things and talking about Adam
and the relationship.

2275
02:10:40,200 --> 02:10:44,800
He held to the other creators in
the other gods in the endowment.

2276
02:10:45,300 --> 02:10:48,400
And you also have Brigham Young
Junior who apparently also

2277
02:10:48,400 --> 02:10:54,400
believed in Adam God like his
father he in 1897 writes, a

2278
02:10:54,407 --> 02:10:57,100
couple journal entries about
meetings of the Quorum of The

2279
02:10:57,100 --> 02:11:00,000
Twelve in the first presidency
showing that they still

2280
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:04,000
privately believed in it.
Even if they weren't as public

2281
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:08,500
about it at that time.
So on October 12th. 1897 he

2282
02:11:08,508 --> 02:11:12,300
records present Lorenzo Snow LED
out on an atom being our father

2283
02:11:12,300 --> 02:11:15,300
and God how beautiful the
thought it Rock.

2284
02:11:15,300 --> 02:11:18,500
God nearer to us, brother.
Franklin D, Richard said it made

2285
02:11:18,500 --> 02:11:19,900
him thrill through his whole
body.

2286
02:11:19,900 --> 02:11:23,100
It was new and it was inspiring.
I mean so that's kind of

2287
02:11:23,108 --> 02:11:26,200
interesting.
It's not I'm not sure what new

2288
02:11:26,200 --> 02:11:28,000
met in that context.
He might have thought that was

2289
02:11:28,000 --> 02:11:30,900
new revelation to the
restoration because Franklin D

2290
02:11:30,900 --> 02:11:36,200
Richards was defending him back
in the 1850s so That's one entry

2291
02:11:36,200 --> 02:11:40,500
in the, another entry on
December 16th 1897 and this kind

2292
02:11:40,500 --> 02:11:45,700
of might show that kind of
persecution and criticism by the

2293
02:11:45,700 --> 02:11:49,000
our earliest Church might have
factored into then not talking

2294
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:52,000
about it as much.
And so this quote is in Brigham,

2295
02:11:52,000 --> 02:11:54,300
Young Juniors journal and might
have been Wilford Woodruff

2296
02:11:54,300 --> 02:11:57,200
speaking and I'm not quite sure
but it was just kind of

2297
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:00,700
summarizing the council meetings
agreement, Adam is our father

2298
02:12:00,700 --> 02:12:04,900
and God and no use to discuss it
with the Joseph fights.

2299
02:12:05,200 --> 02:12:09,700
Or anyone else, huh?
So that's kind of showing that

2300
02:12:09,700 --> 02:12:12,300
pullback of.
We know this is true but we're

2301
02:12:12,300 --> 02:12:15,400
not going to really talk about
it as much anymore.

2302
02:12:17,200 --> 02:12:20,200
Yeah, probably one of the last.
It's again it seems like a sad

2303
02:12:20,200 --> 02:12:22,400
withdrawal from the battlefield
of ideas.

2304
02:12:23,200 --> 02:12:26,900
Yeah, so probably one of the
last public sermons on Adam.

2305
02:12:26,900 --> 02:12:31,000
God was probably in 1895 in,
this is just kind of a mentioned

2306
02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:36,800
as he accepted it and so this is
Orson F Whitney who was the son

2307
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:38,500
of Helen Mark?
Kimball.

2308
02:12:38,500 --> 02:12:42,200
So grandson of Heber C Kimball.
He made this statement on June

2309
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:47,600
9th 1895 and so this is we have
been great if The other leaders

2310
02:12:47,600 --> 02:12:52,100
at this time would have also
embraced the truth like in

2311
02:12:52,100 --> 02:12:54,100
publicly like Orson if Whitney
does.

2312
02:12:54,500 --> 02:12:57,400
And so this was published in the
collective discourses.

2313
02:12:57,400 --> 02:13:00,800
He said, quote, Mormonism
teaches that the world's on hide

2314
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:03,100
the stars that Glitter in the
blue Vault of Heaven, our

2315
02:13:03,100 --> 02:13:06,100
kingdoms of God that they were
once Earth's like this.

2316
02:13:06,300 --> 02:13:09,000
That they have been redeemed and
glorified by the same laws, the

2317
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,900
same principles are applied to
this planet, by which it will

2318
02:13:11,900 --> 02:13:15,700
Ascend to a perfected and
glorified state it teaches that

2319
02:13:15,700 --> 02:13:19,100
those Worlds are people with
human beings, God's sons and

2320
02:13:19,100 --> 02:13:22,600
daughters, and every husband and
father, may become an atom and

2321
02:13:22,600 --> 02:13:26,500
every wife and a mother and Eve,
to some future Planet.

2322
02:13:27,400 --> 02:13:31,200
So, you know, unfortunately,
because they're not talking

2323
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:34,300
about it anymore.
The, there's seems to be by the

2324
02:13:34,300 --> 02:13:38,900
early 1900's leaders are not as
familiar with it, you know, only

2325
02:13:38,900 --> 02:13:42,600
takes them like, a decade or so,
for this to kind of fall out

2326
02:13:42,600 --> 02:13:46,000
from, you know, the it's, you
have a leaders agreeing about it

2327
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:50,800
in a T97, probably 10 years, 15
years later they are, you know,

2328
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:54,300
it's totally absent.
And of course you're also having

2329
02:13:54,300 --> 02:13:57,900
the older leaders pass away, you
know Wilfred Woodruff Lorenzo

2330
02:13:57,900 --> 02:14:02,200
Snow all the you know Franklin D
Richards not to mention John W,

2331
02:14:02,200 --> 02:14:04,900
Taylor's excommunicated.
Yeah yeah.

2332
02:14:04,900 --> 02:14:07,800
So Brigham Young Junior passes
away if I'm understanding

2333
02:14:07,800 --> 02:14:10,800
correctly and so you kind of
have the Old Guard died out and

2334
02:14:10,800 --> 02:14:14,400
without the Old Guard as much
those who don't believe in.

2335
02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:19,100
Adam God are able basically say
that it wasn't ever really

2336
02:14:19,100 --> 02:14:22,500
Doctrine and it was just kind of
something that was an opinion

2337
02:14:22,500 --> 02:14:27,500
that wasn't ever ratified as as
church doctrine you know and we

2338
02:14:27,500 --> 02:14:29,300
don't really know.
One really has to believe in.

2339
02:14:29,300 --> 02:14:34,400
It was kind of what Joseph F
Smith started to say when he

2340
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:37,900
became a member of the first
presidency and as he actually

2341
02:14:37,900 --> 02:14:41,700
was a member of the first
presidency under near the end of

2342
02:14:41,700 --> 02:14:44,500
Brigham Young's life use that as
a counselor, he was a counselor

2343
02:14:44,500 --> 02:14:47,800
under John Taylor and wolf.
Woodruff, but it wasn't really

2344
02:14:47,900 --> 02:14:50,200
until probably the end of
Wilfred woodruff's life that

2345
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:54,200
he's starting to feel kind of
confident to basically say that,

2346
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:57,500
you know, Adam God isn't really
a doctrine that people have to

2347
02:14:57,500 --> 02:15:00,900
believe in anymore.
So, and that might come across a

2348
02:15:00,900 --> 02:15:03,900
surprising, because didn't we
just read in the school of the

2349
02:15:03,900 --> 02:15:08,600
prophets in, 1873 he supported
the atom God Doctrine.

2350
02:15:09,300 --> 02:15:13,000
Well, some people think and I
think that there's reason to

2351
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:16,800
believe it that Orson Pratt.
After Brigham Young died or

2352
02:15:16,800 --> 02:15:20,800
about that time started to
privately tutor Joseph.

2353
02:15:20,900 --> 02:15:25,400
F Smith in his doctoral idea.
I see and so Orson.

2354
02:15:25,400 --> 02:15:28,100
Pratt started saying, this is
what I believe and this is what

2355
02:15:28,100 --> 02:15:31,500
I believe and I can support it
with this, you know, idea in the

2356
02:15:31,500 --> 02:15:33,800
scripture and this saying, of
Joseph Smith.

2357
02:15:34,100 --> 02:15:38,500
And so he starts to try to fill
Joseph F Smith with Orson Pratt

2358
02:15:38,500 --> 02:15:40,900
ideas.
So so Joseph estimate is

2359
02:15:40,900 --> 02:15:43,700
actually converted over or some
Pratt's, way of thinking.

2360
02:15:43,900 --> 02:15:47,500
Yeah, and you actually do see a
Statement in 1878 and George Q

2361
02:15:47,500 --> 02:15:52,000
Cannon Journal where Pratt and
Joseph F Smith are basically

2362
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:55,500
subtly trying to say that you
know that the president of the

2363
02:15:55,508 --> 02:15:58,400
church doesn't have a right to
advance any new doctrines

2364
02:15:58,400 --> 02:16:03,200
without the unanimous consent of
the Quorum of the twelve and

2365
02:16:03,900 --> 02:16:06,300
George do cannons.
Hearing him preach this Joseph F

2366
02:16:06,300 --> 02:16:09,000
Smith.
Preach this in a sermon.

2367
02:16:09,100 --> 02:16:12,500
He says, I can't help but think
that he's suddenly referring to

2368
02:16:12,500 --> 02:16:15,200
Brigham Young with this.
And I talked to my brother and

2369
02:16:15,300 --> 02:16:17,900
my brother also thinks that he
was probably referring to

2370
02:16:17,900 --> 02:16:20,300
Brigham Young about this.
And so then they had a meeting

2371
02:16:20,300 --> 02:16:23,400
of the Quorum of The Twelve
later that day and they bring it

2372
02:16:23,400 --> 02:16:29,700
up and there's kind of a bit of
a argument or discussion at the

2373
02:16:29,700 --> 02:16:33,200
very least of this conflicting
views between Orson Pratt and

2374
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:36,700
Joseph F Smith versus kind of
the rest of the Quorum of The

2375
02:16:36,700 --> 02:16:40,200
Twelve who felt that, some of
the ideas that they had about

2376
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:44,200
different things, were different
than what had been taught up

2377
02:16:44,200 --> 02:16:46,299
that time.
And they felt that I think that

2378
02:16:46,299 --> 02:16:48,900
they knew that Joseph.
F Smith and Orson Pratt were

2379
02:16:48,900 --> 02:16:52,600
trying to be careful because
probably the rest of the men in

2380
02:16:52,600 --> 02:16:56,100
that room believed in Adam God
and would have said hey we all

2381
02:16:56,100 --> 02:16:59,400
did except it the only person
you did it was you know or stand

2382
02:16:59,400 --> 02:17:02,100
proud over there.
You know this was something that

2383
02:17:02,100 --> 02:17:04,700
Brigham Young mentioned in a
quorum of The Twelve prayer

2384
02:17:04,700 --> 02:17:09,200
circle before he preached it
over General Conference in 1852.

2385
02:17:09,900 --> 02:17:14,700
So it seems that John Joseph.
F Smith is becomes converted to

2386
02:17:14,700 --> 02:17:18,000
a lot of different different
ideas, Advanced my Orson Pratt.

2387
02:17:18,100 --> 02:17:21,400
Okay, let me summarize to make
sure I'm a that I'm

2388
02:17:21,400 --> 02:17:25,700
understanding this correctly and
and make sure that we're all on

2389
02:17:25,700 --> 02:17:29,299
the same page here.
So our best guess at how this

2390
02:17:29,299 --> 02:17:35,200
really falls out of favor.
Is that one you have Orson Pratt

2391
02:17:35,200 --> 02:17:38,600
at the very beginning, who's
kind who's pretty outspoken

2392
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:44,900
against the atom God Doctrine,
to they stopped teaching it in

2393
02:17:44,900 --> 02:17:47,299
the Sunday school's, right?
So, they're not teaching it to

2394
02:17:47,299 --> 02:17:50,500
the kids.
You have the old guard that dies

2395
02:17:50,500 --> 02:17:54,000
off.
By the time Joseph Smith is

2396
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:56,299
there.
It hasn't been taught for a long

2397
02:17:56,299 --> 02:18:00,700
time and so, most likely the
up-and-coming leadership.

2398
02:18:01,600 --> 02:18:05,100
It freaks them out probably when
they go to the temple and they

2399
02:18:05,100 --> 02:18:07,799
hear about Adam God and they're
not sure what to do with it.

2400
02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:12,500
You have Joseph F Smith who's
being tutored by Orson Pratt

2401
02:18:13,000 --> 02:18:15,600
after the death of the La Voz
Old Guard and he's kind of

2402
02:18:15,600 --> 02:18:18,200
converted to orson's way of
thinking.

2403
02:18:18,500 --> 02:18:23,799
So now we see kind of how the
doctrine begins to lose favor

2404
02:18:23,900 --> 02:18:27,799
with in Mormon, do Mormon them,
is that, is that a fairly good

2405
02:18:27,799 --> 02:18:30,000
synopsis are?
Yeah, that's a really good

2406
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:33,100
synopsis of what we all.
Just what we just covered

2407
02:18:33,100 --> 02:18:34,799
perfect.
And that's why I want to do.

2408
02:18:34,799 --> 02:18:37,600
Not that you didn't explain it
well but because I'm slow and I

2409
02:18:37,600 --> 02:18:39,900
need, no, it's a dad that
summary so.

2410
02:18:40,100 --> 02:18:45,200
So now let's move on to the
early part of the 1900s and this

2411
02:18:45,200 --> 02:18:50,500
to me is where the LDS church
probably puts the death nail in

2412
02:18:50,500 --> 02:18:54,200
the coffin or tries to put the
death nail in the coffin of the

2413
02:18:54,200 --> 02:18:56,700
atom God.
Doctor, what would you say that

2414
02:18:56,700 --> 02:19:01,299
is so I think probably the first
thing that Joseph F Smith.

2415
02:19:01,400 --> 02:19:03,299
Does.
It's something that occurs

2416
02:19:03,299 --> 02:19:09,200
during the time that he is the
president of the church is the

2417
02:19:09,200 --> 02:19:12,900
lecture.
The veil is largely removed from

2418
02:19:12,900 --> 02:19:16,299
the temple.
And it seems that the the way

2419
02:19:16,299 --> 02:19:19,900
that this first started was, I
started to only give the full

2420
02:19:19,900 --> 02:19:24,200
lecture at the veil on like two
different days of the week.

2421
02:19:24,400 --> 02:19:27,100
When there was going to be a lot
of younger people going through

2422
02:19:27,100 --> 02:19:29,000
the temple for the first time,
but when they were doing work

2423
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:32,299
for the dead, they wanted to
give kind of an Deviated version

2424
02:19:32,299 --> 02:19:34,700
of the lecture.
The veil that doesn't really get

2425
02:19:34,700 --> 02:19:38,500
into all that Adam God stuff.
And so they have introduced a

2426
02:19:38,500 --> 02:19:40,500
previous version of the lecture,
the veil.

2427
02:19:40,799 --> 02:19:44,000
And then it seems that at some
point in time under Joseph F

2428
02:19:44,000 --> 02:19:47,299
Smith, they stopped giving the
full like sure.

2429
02:19:47,299 --> 02:19:49,600
The veil that goes into the
atom, God Doctrine.

2430
02:19:50,600 --> 02:19:53,200
And so, there's an abbreviated
lecture, the veil and that

2431
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:56,300
actually continues probably in
that abbreviated form.

2432
02:19:56,300 --> 02:19:59,200
Where it's literally only like
three or four sentences instead

2433
02:19:59,200 --> 02:20:03,300
of, you know, page and a half.
Half or two pages worth of

2434
02:20:04,000 --> 02:20:07,800
teachings about the rate about
Adam and God in the creation and

2435
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:12,100
the endowment.
So it's really true indicated to

2436
02:20:12,100 --> 02:20:18,000
almost nothing and that probably
is what lays the foundation for.

2437
02:20:19,800 --> 02:20:21,400
You know, it's not even taught
in the temple anymore.

2438
02:20:21,400 --> 02:20:23,500
So where is it being taught
nowhere?

2439
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:28,200
And so Joseph, F Smith about a
decade after becoming president

2440
02:20:28,200 --> 02:20:35,400
of the church in the April 1912.
On Friends basically gets up and

2441
02:20:35,400 --> 02:20:38,100
he and other church leaders at
that time he and his counselors,

2442
02:20:38,100 --> 02:20:42,100
if I'm not mistaken get up and
they give some talks kind of

2443
02:20:42,100 --> 02:20:46,200
against the atom God Doctrine
and say that you know this is

2444
02:20:46,200 --> 02:20:49,600
something that if if Brigham
Young taught it was his own

2445
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:53,600
opinion.
It isn't we don't think it's

2446
02:20:53,600 --> 02:20:55,600
supported supported by the
scriptures.

2447
02:20:56,800 --> 02:21:00,800
So we are going to say that this
should no longer be taught and

2448
02:21:00,800 --> 02:21:05,100
you should only Each, what is
plainly in the scriptures and

2449
02:21:05,100 --> 02:21:09,500
any of those old Patriarchs who
continue to teach that the atom,

2450
02:21:09,500 --> 02:21:12,700
God Doctrine should be called up
before the High Council and

2451
02:21:12,700 --> 02:21:15,100
tried.
And if they don't, and if they

2452
02:21:15,100 --> 02:21:19,600
don't refuse, if they refuse to
stop teaching this and they

2453
02:21:19,600 --> 02:21:21,100
should be cut off from the
church.

2454
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:26,600
Okay?
And so this is on April 8 8 1912

2455
02:21:27,000 --> 02:21:32,100
and there's a bunch of different
leaders who You speak, who

2456
02:21:32,100 --> 02:21:34,700
record about this conference in
their journals.

2457
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:37,700
So at the Ivan's records, that
there's a special priesthood

2458
02:21:37,700 --> 02:21:41,600
meeting Bishop o p, Miller spoke
on tithing, Bishop David A Smith

2459
02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:45,800
recommends.
I didn't record the full slot

2460
02:21:45,800 --> 02:21:49,300
there, present Penrose, spoke on
tithing and the atom God Theory,

2461
02:21:49,500 --> 02:21:53,000
present Smith, Adam God
Doctrine, not a doctrine of the

2462
02:21:53,000 --> 02:21:56,100
church.
So in the probably the most

2463
02:21:56,100 --> 02:21:59,700
detailed account of this was in
the Thomas Clausen journal, on

2464
02:21:59,700 --> 02:22:04,900
April, same day, April 8. 1912.
So, Charles Penrose, read a

2465
02:22:04,900 --> 02:22:08,100
letter that the first presidency
had we had read the letter.

2466
02:22:08,100 --> 02:22:11,000
The first presidency had
received regarding the atom God

2467
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:14,300
doctrine, that some Patriarchs
were going about teaching this,

2468
02:22:14,400 --> 02:22:17,200
the people, this Doctrine, he
then read from the Doctrine, and

2469
02:22:17,200 --> 02:22:20,900
Covenants, showing that God was
not Adam, but the father of Adam

2470
02:22:20,900 --> 02:22:24,800
and that Jesus Christ and all.
And and, and that Jesus Christ

2471
02:22:24,800 --> 02:22:27,700
in the spirits of men, he said,
Brigham Young did not qualify

2472
02:22:27,700 --> 02:22:30,600
his remarks which were taken in
longhand and there may have been

2473
02:22:30,600 --> 02:22:33,200
something.
Which unless further explained

2474
02:22:33,200 --> 02:22:36,100
might be construed.
So there's the beginning of

2475
02:22:36,200 --> 02:22:37,900
maybe Brigham Young was
misquoted.

2476
02:22:37,900 --> 02:22:41,700
We can't trust that he was
quoted correctly there so then

2477
02:22:41,700 --> 02:22:44,900
Joseph F Smith gets President
Joseph F Smith and said that he

2478
02:22:44,900 --> 02:22:47,500
was in full Accord with what
Penrose had said and that

2479
02:22:47,500 --> 02:22:49,600
President Brigham Young.
When he delivered that sermon

2480
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:53,600
only expressed his own views and
that they were not corroborated

2481
02:22:53,600 --> 02:22:55,900
by the word of the Lord.
In the standard works of the

2482
02:22:55,900 --> 02:22:59,300
church, the Bible Book of Mormon
and pearl, great price and the

2483
02:22:59,308 --> 02:23:02,500
Doctrine and Covenants were
voted upon On by the church, in

2484
02:23:02,500 --> 02:23:06,500
conference devoted, Cormac by
corn and the body of the church

2485
02:23:06,500 --> 02:23:09,300
were asked to sustain those
above books as the standards of

2486
02:23:09,300 --> 02:23:11,400
the church.
There's first most was taken by

2487
02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:13,400
the church in the East.
It was taken in the same manner

2488
02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:15,500
here in Salt Lake later in the
year.

2489
02:23:15,800 --> 02:23:18,500
Now, all Doctrine, if it can't
be established by these

2490
02:23:18,500 --> 02:23:22,000
standards is not to be taught or
promulgated by members that

2491
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:25,200
those Patriarchs who persisted
and teaching these things that

2492
02:23:25,200 --> 02:23:27,600
did not stop.
When told the do show should be

2493
02:23:27,600 --> 02:23:30,000
handled by their Bishops and
their name sent up to the high

2494
02:23:30,000 --> 02:23:33,300
councils for Action and be cut
off.

2495
02:23:33,800 --> 02:23:37,400
So this is the first strong
stance where it's like, we are

2496
02:23:37,400 --> 02:23:39,800
done with this.
We are not messing with this.

2497
02:23:39,800 --> 02:23:43,900
Any further is during Joseph
Smith's tenure as president of

2498
02:23:43,900 --> 02:23:47,100
the LDS church.
Yes, it's very unfortunate to

2499
02:23:47,100 --> 02:23:51,700
see him go from having a
testimony of it and 1873 to

2500
02:23:51,700 --> 02:23:56,100
being very not only opposed to
it but opposed to anyone else

2501
02:23:56,100 --> 02:24:00,000
believing or teaching it in the
church it gives new meaning to

2502
02:24:00,000 --> 02:24:06,300
the scripture even the Very
elect could be deceived and the

2503
02:24:06,300 --> 02:24:09,600
other place I was looking at
where I think the LDS church

2504
02:24:09,600 --> 02:24:12,100
goes out of their way to get rid
of the atom.

2505
02:24:12,100 --> 02:24:16,400
God Doctrine is when Talmadge is
commissioned to write, Jesus.

2506
02:24:16,400 --> 02:24:22,600
The Christ because that is the
first official book.

2507
02:24:22,600 --> 02:24:27,200
That is sanctioned by the LDS
church that comes out and says

2508
02:24:27,200 --> 02:24:31,100
no, no, no.
Jesus Christ is the Jehovah of

2509
02:24:31,100 --> 02:24:35,900
the Old Testament.
And, and to me, that's where

2510
02:24:36,800 --> 02:24:40,300
that's where it it's done,
right?

2511
02:24:40,600 --> 02:24:45,800
It outside of fundamentalist
circles is when that happens,

2512
02:24:45,800 --> 02:24:48,300
right?
Because that's one of the only

2513
02:24:48,300 --> 02:24:53,300
books missionaries to this day
can take out in the field with

2514
02:24:53,800 --> 02:24:56,800
other than the scriptures is
Jesus, the Christ, right?

2515
02:24:56,800 --> 02:25:01,800
It's almost mandatory reading
and so you get into that, And

2516
02:25:01,800 --> 02:25:07,300
you really begin to understand.
Now that this is where The the

2517
02:25:07,300 --> 02:25:11,800
modern definition of the
creation God head so to speak

2518
02:25:11,800 --> 02:25:17,100
from the temple drama and from
the understanding of who God

2519
02:25:17,100 --> 02:25:21,000
really is, is replaced with this
Jehovah Jesus.

2520
02:25:21,500 --> 02:25:25,300
This Jehovah is Jesus Doctrine.
Yeah.

2521
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:30,100
What what's tragic is?
Joseph F Smith came up with, you

2522
02:25:30,108 --> 02:25:34,700
know, he expressed the doctor
idea of divine investiture that

2523
02:25:35,800 --> 02:25:40,400
the guy It's are so United in
their work and in their mission

2524
02:25:40,500 --> 02:25:43,600
that they can they share all the
credit with each other.

2525
02:25:43,900 --> 02:25:47,600
You know, Adam might not have
made every single Galaxy we see

2526
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:51,500
in the night sky but the gods
are so United that you know,

2527
02:25:51,800 --> 02:25:54,400
they they share the glory and
the credit for all of their

2528
02:25:54,400 --> 02:25:56,800
creation.
And so in that context, Jesus

2529
02:25:56,800 --> 02:26:00,900
Christ can speak as though he's
representing the godhead and in

2530
02:26:00,900 --> 02:26:04,800
that context, you also have an
angel in the Book of Revelation.

2531
02:26:05,100 --> 02:26:08,700
Where, who With that same Divine
investiture speaks as though

2532
02:26:08,700 --> 02:26:11,300
he's Jesus Christ, even though
he is not Jesus Christ.

2533
02:26:11,300 --> 02:26:14,300
He's just delivering a message
for Jesus Christ.

2534
02:26:14,600 --> 02:26:19,300
And so what's tragic is you have
this, you know, they're trying

2535
02:26:19,300 --> 02:26:23,100
to say we have certain things in
the scriptures that seem to

2536
02:26:23,100 --> 02:26:25,300
contradict the atom God
Doctrine.

2537
02:26:25,400 --> 02:26:30,800
But they also had this beautiful
framework for harmonizing and

2538
02:26:30,800 --> 02:26:33,400
understanding those same
scriptures, which they

2539
02:26:33,400 --> 02:26:38,500
unfortunately did not use in.
A Shinto atom and the atom God

2540
02:26:38,500 --> 02:26:40,100
Doctrine.
And you have to wonder if at

2541
02:26:40,100 --> 02:26:43,100
least part of it was there
trying to fit in with normal

2542
02:26:43,100 --> 02:26:45,600
society.
They're trying to become more

2543
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:49,200
like mainstream Christianity and
Adam, God is something that kind

2544
02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:53,400
of puts them outside of the pale
of, you know, traditional

2545
02:26:53,400 --> 02:26:55,800
Christianity.
And you know, they're trying to

2546
02:26:55,800 --> 02:27:00,600
make those hard times and you
know that separation from the

2547
02:27:00,608 --> 02:27:03,000
world go away.
If they're trying to be accepted

2548
02:27:03,000 --> 02:27:06,800
by American culture and I worked
I think Think you're right.

2549
02:27:06,800 --> 02:27:08,400
I think I think you're onto
something.

2550
02:27:09,300 --> 02:27:12,600
Right right there.
And and I guess if there's one

2551
02:27:12,600 --> 02:27:14,800
thing to say to their credit,
it's that they did.

2552
02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:16,900
Make that change very rapidly,
right?

2553
02:27:16,900 --> 02:27:20,700
Where Mormonism went from
Something On The Fringe to

2554
02:27:20,700 --> 02:27:24,700
something that was very, you
know, very standard within

2555
02:27:24,700 --> 02:27:29,400
America.
Now, we've established when the

2556
02:27:29,400 --> 02:27:32,800
doctrine started who taught it,
we talked about Brigham Young's

2557
02:27:32,800 --> 02:27:35,300
tenure.
We talked about how it kind of,

2558
02:27:35,500 --> 02:27:38,800
you know, ties And with temple,
we talked about how it fell out

2559
02:27:38,800 --> 02:27:42,000
of favor.
Let's talk about now.

2560
02:27:42,500 --> 02:27:47,000
What are the ramifications of
losing that Doctrine in the main

2561
02:27:47,000 --> 02:27:52,000
LDS church?
Well, probably one of the

2562
02:27:52,100 --> 02:27:58,900
biggest ramifications is that,
you know, if Brigham Young got

2563
02:27:59,100 --> 02:28:03,000
this thing so wrong.
You know, we really can't trust

2564
02:28:03,000 --> 02:28:06,000
anything that any of the early
prophets taught, you have some

2565
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:10,000
people, some apologists who
reject Joseph Smith's teachings

2566
02:28:10,000 --> 02:28:13,100
on God wants being a man and
they're being gods above God,

2567
02:28:13,100 --> 02:28:15,500
the father, because if we can
throw out what, Brigham Young

2568
02:28:15,500 --> 02:28:17,600
taught about God.
You know, what, why can't we

2569
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:20,000
think that break Joseph Smith
was just teaching his own

2570
02:28:20,000 --> 02:28:24,500
opinion on, in some of his
sermons and you can basically,

2571
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:28,800
you know, rationalize away all
of the most beautiful unique

2572
02:28:28,800 --> 02:28:31,900
doctrines of the restoration or
uncomfortable.

2573
02:28:31,900 --> 02:28:33,900
If you happen to find it
uncomfortable, you can

2574
02:28:33,900 --> 02:28:37,000
rationalize it away.
Yeah, exactly.

2575
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:39,700
It all depends on your
perspective if you, you can

2576
02:28:39,700 --> 02:28:43,500
either look at it as A beautiful
new truth that's been revealed

2577
02:28:43,500 --> 02:28:46,700
in the dispensation of the
fulness of times or restored

2578
02:28:46,700 --> 02:28:49,900
because I think a lot of these
things are Restorations of

2579
02:28:49,900 --> 02:28:53,800
ancient truths have been lost or
you can look at it as this is

2580
02:28:53,800 --> 02:28:59,700
doesn't fit with, you know what
I you know what my neighbors and

2581
02:28:59,700 --> 02:29:04,300
what the theologians you know
before Joseph Smith taught about

2582
02:29:04,300 --> 02:29:06,600
God and doesn't really fit in
that framework.

2583
02:29:06,600 --> 02:29:09,900
So I want to talk just a second
about what you said because I

2584
02:29:09,900 --> 02:29:14,500
think I think you're 100%
correct that it throws into

2585
02:29:14,500 --> 02:29:18,100
doubt.
Everything any profits ever

2586
02:29:18,100 --> 02:29:20,300
said, except Russell, I'm
Nelson.

2587
02:29:20,500 --> 02:29:21,800
Right.
If you consider Russell, I'm

2588
02:29:21,800 --> 02:29:24,500
Nelson.
You can discount everything

2589
02:29:24,500 --> 02:29:29,400
before that because this was
about the same time, right?

2590
02:29:29,500 --> 02:29:32,900
When they finally get rid of
Adam God and they think they put

2591
02:29:32,900 --> 02:29:35,400
the death nail in the coffin, in
the LDS church.

2592
02:29:35,700 --> 02:29:37,800
This is about the time.
They also come out with this

2593
02:29:37,800 --> 02:29:42,300
idea of, it doesn't matter what
a prophet said before the

2594
02:29:42,300 --> 02:29:45,200
current profit.
That's when you know Wilfred

2595
02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:49,100
Woodruff really emphasize that
with the manifesto was, yeah,

2596
02:29:49,400 --> 02:29:52,000
the profit will never lead you
astray.

2597
02:29:52,100 --> 02:29:55,200
You know, you you heard that a
little bit but then it really

2598
02:29:55,200 --> 02:29:57,800
ramped up about the 1900s,
right?

2599
02:29:58,000 --> 02:30:03,500
As quote, mainstream Mormonism
is trying to modernize so to

2600
02:30:03,500 --> 02:30:04,900
speak.
Yeah, under Heber J.

2601
02:30:04,900 --> 02:30:08,500
Grant was said the, the quote
by, I believe it's Mary Ann

2602
02:30:08,500 --> 02:30:10,900
Romney, who said that.
Always keep your eye on the

2603
02:30:10,900 --> 02:30:14,700
president of the church and if
he ever Ask you to do something

2604
02:30:14,700 --> 02:30:17,100
that's wrong and you do it.
You will be blessed to do

2605
02:30:17,100 --> 02:30:18,600
something.
Exactly.

2606
02:30:18,600 --> 02:30:20,800
And it basically encouraged this
blind obedience.

2607
02:30:20,800 --> 02:30:24,800
Exactly.
And and, and now one of Joseph

2608
02:30:24,800 --> 02:30:28,500
Smith's comments was, you can
always judge a true Prophet by

2609
02:30:28,500 --> 02:30:32,900
if what he says agrees with a
pre The Profit before him.

2610
02:30:33,000 --> 02:30:35,200
Right?
Kind of one of those things you

2611
02:30:35,200 --> 02:30:39,200
can receive new revelation but
you don't get to cancel old

2612
02:30:39,200 --> 02:30:43,600
Revelation so to speak and me
building upon the previous.

2613
02:30:43,700 --> 02:30:45,100
Exactly.
Exactly.

2614
02:30:45,300 --> 02:30:52,300
And so now we have a complete
Turnover of that right where all

2615
02:30:52,300 --> 02:30:57,700
of the sudden it doesn't matter
what the other Prophet said

2616
02:30:57,700 --> 02:31:00,700
before because the only Prophet
that should matter to you is the

2617
02:31:00,700 --> 02:31:04,900
one that is living right now.
Well, if that's the case, why

2618
02:31:04,900 --> 02:31:09,400
Revere Joseph Smith, why Revere
Brigham Young, why Revere

2619
02:31:09,400 --> 02:31:12,200
Wilford Woodruff or any of the
others, right?

2620
02:31:12,200 --> 02:31:15,100
It doesn't matter, but they are
still very good about

2621
02:31:15,100 --> 02:31:18,100
cherry-picking surging things
that they do agree with.

2622
02:31:18,400 --> 02:31:22,200
So it Really cast doubt upon
those other prophets.

2623
02:31:22,500 --> 02:31:26,800
And I think what it does is it
makes apostasy for Latter Day

2624
02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:29,900
Saints today, much easier
because they can say, well, if

2625
02:31:29,900 --> 02:31:35,600
that prophets wrong about Adam
God this Prophet could be wrong

2626
02:31:35,900 --> 02:31:41,300
on his stance against gay
marriage so it throws in

2627
02:31:42,000 --> 02:31:47,800
Mormonism into this.
Kind of strange Progressive

2628
02:31:47,800 --> 02:31:52,000
religion, and I say progressive.
I mean, like leftist, kind of

2629
02:31:52,900 --> 02:32:00,400
kind of scenario where it can
really be damaging to the

2630
02:32:00,400 --> 02:32:03,200
underlying pinnings of what
Mormonism really is.

2631
02:32:05,000 --> 02:32:09,600
One thing that I saw just this
weekend and I'm so glad I was

2632
02:32:09,600 --> 02:32:12,500
wanting to have you on like, a
week earlier, but I'm glad it

2633
02:32:12,500 --> 02:32:15,800
was today that you came on and
let me explain you why?

2634
02:32:16,100 --> 02:32:21,200
Just last night, I was reading
kind of the synopsis from

2635
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:25,500
General Conference.
And last night session was the

2636
02:32:25,500 --> 02:32:31,400
Women's Conference set session.
And right now, there is a big

2637
02:32:31,400 --> 02:32:36,400
push in mainstream ISM to
understand heavenly mother.

2638
02:32:38,000 --> 02:32:44,700
And the apostle that spoke, I
believe it was renlund said, you

2639
02:32:44,700 --> 02:32:48,100
don't have to worry about it, we
don't know that much.

2640
02:32:49,700 --> 02:32:54,800
One of the greatest
ramifications, I think of doing

2641
02:32:54,800 --> 02:32:56,900
away with the atom God Doctrine.
Is it?

2642
02:32:56,900 --> 02:33:00,500
No longer makes Not only
Heavenly Father relatable.

2643
02:33:00,900 --> 02:33:03,100
It doesn't make heavenly mother
relatable.

2644
02:33:03,300 --> 02:33:05,300
When he says, we don't know much
about it.

2645
02:33:05,300 --> 02:33:07,400
I want to say.
Yeah, you do.

2646
02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:13,700
You just don't don't want to
admit that the atom God Doctrine

2647
02:33:13,700 --> 02:33:16,700
is correct because if the atom
God Doctrine is correct.

2648
02:33:16,900 --> 02:33:19,900
Well, guess what?
That means Adam is Heavenly

2649
02:33:19,900 --> 02:33:26,000
Father and heavenly mother or at
least one of them is Eve and we

2650
02:33:26,000 --> 02:33:29,900
actually have her words in
scripture in places or at least

2651
02:33:29,900 --> 02:33:38,600
in the temple ceremony and it
completely has set us back as a

2652
02:33:38,600 --> 02:33:42,200
people.
I firmly believe because my wife

2653
02:33:42,200 --> 02:33:44,500
was talking about it with me the
other night.

2654
02:33:44,500 --> 02:33:48,100
She said the nice thing about
the atom God Doctrine, is that

2655
02:33:48,200 --> 02:33:51,800
That it's very empowering to
women in the sense that we know

2656
02:33:51,800 --> 02:33:55,700
who heavenly mother is.
And we know how important and

2657
02:33:55,700 --> 02:34:00,400
vital her role was, and she's
our pattern.

2658
02:34:00,900 --> 02:34:03,200
Right?
And and that's done away with

2659
02:34:05,700 --> 02:34:06,800
Absolutely.
Yeah.

2660
02:34:07,600 --> 02:34:10,600
You know that as you said you
know there's just you know,

2661
02:34:10,600 --> 02:34:14,400
Brigham Young is probably the
prophet You Preach more on

2662
02:34:14,400 --> 02:34:19,800
heavenly mother than any other
prophet and you know, they just

2663
02:34:20,800 --> 02:34:24,000
it's all there if you wanted to
look for it, you know, a couple

2664
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:27,300
quotes you want one, quote,
sure, yeah.

2665
02:34:27,300 --> 02:34:34,000
I don't want to go on forever,
but This idea of the Divine

2666
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:39,300
potential for women is laid out
in so many different quotes.

2667
02:34:42,200 --> 02:34:46,200
He said for here's one of them
said as to the great wedding

2668
02:34:46,200 --> 02:34:48,900
brother or some Pratt has been
telling us about is nothing more

2669
02:34:48,900 --> 02:34:52,600
or less than this Adam's father
came to him set and said, here's

2670
02:34:52,600 --> 02:34:55,600
the wife you've had for so long.
Now you're going to have one

2671
02:34:55,600 --> 02:34:58,800
wife to take with you to Yonder
where Earth and if any of your

2672
02:34:58,800 --> 02:35:01,400
other wives ever, go to an earth
to become the mother of all

2673
02:35:01,400 --> 02:35:04,300
living to become an eve, it will
be to another Earth.

2674
02:35:04,300 --> 02:35:06,900
Not to that one.
She is called Eve because she is

2675
02:35:06,900 --> 02:35:09,600
the mother of all living and she
is the queen of that Earth.

2676
02:35:09,800 --> 02:35:11,900
Adam is the lord of the earth
and the father of all living In

2677
02:35:11,908 --> 02:35:16,100
this earth as Eve is the mother
of all living on this Earth.

2678
02:35:16,600 --> 02:35:19,700
And another quote, he said this
one was directed to the sisters,

2679
02:35:20,100 --> 02:35:23,900
and this is in general,
discourse is volume 8, he said

2680
02:35:23,900 --> 02:35:26,200
many of the sisters grieve
because they are not blessed

2681
02:35:26,200 --> 02:35:28,400
with Offspring.
You will see the time when you

2682
02:35:28,400 --> 02:35:31,300
have millions of children around
you, if you are faithful to your

2683
02:35:31,300 --> 02:35:33,400
covenants, you will be mothers
of Nations.

2684
02:35:33,500 --> 02:35:35,500
You will become Yves to Earth's
like this.

2685
02:35:35,800 --> 02:35:38,400
And when you have assisted in
people, in one Earth, there are

2686
02:35:38,400 --> 02:35:41,000
millions of are still in the
course of creation.

2687
02:35:44,200 --> 02:35:49,400
Yeah, and we want end and
mainstream LDS.

2688
02:35:50,200 --> 02:35:54,000
The mainstream LDS church has
lost that they have lost the

2689
02:35:54,000 --> 02:35:57,700
opportunity to be able to give
those answers.

2690
02:35:58,100 --> 02:36:01,500
And I think it's an absolute
travesty in some ways, right?

2691
02:36:01,700 --> 02:36:09,500
I think because of that and the
way the atom God Doctrine was

2692
02:36:09,500 --> 02:36:12,500
done away with it.
Allowed for even in my opinion,

2693
02:36:12,500 --> 02:36:16,000
some abuses.
The parts of men, I really do.

2694
02:36:16,000 --> 02:36:19,800
I think you can draw pretty,
pretty significant line there.

2695
02:36:22,000 --> 02:36:25,200
Let's we've been at this now.
Two hours and 40 minutes.

2696
02:36:25,700 --> 02:36:28,200
So let's go ahead and, and let's
wrap up.

2697
02:36:28,200 --> 02:36:32,700
I'm I just want to leave with my
testimony of the atom God

2698
02:36:32,700 --> 02:36:33,900
doctor.
And if you want to leave with

2699
02:36:33,900 --> 02:36:35,600
yours, I think that would be
great.

2700
02:36:35,600 --> 02:36:38,900
A great way to wrap this up.
I just want to Bear testimony

2701
02:36:38,900 --> 02:36:44,100
that for me, the atom God
Doctrine does so much.

2702
02:36:44,100 --> 02:36:48,800
It makes my God, and my heavenly
father, so personal.

2703
02:36:49,400 --> 02:36:51,900
I know that he is.
Through everything that I have

2704
02:36:51,900 --> 02:36:57,100
went through.
And it adds an extra component,

2705
02:36:57,300 --> 02:36:58,500
right?
That not only.

2706
02:36:58,500 --> 02:37:01,100
Is he my heavenly father?
The father of my spirit.

2707
02:37:01,100 --> 02:37:07,200
He's the father of my body.
And I know how I love my kids

2708
02:37:08,200 --> 02:37:13,000
and I'm probably not capable of
the kind of feelings that he's

2709
02:37:13,000 --> 02:37:18,400
capable of in his State.
And if I love my kids as much as

2710
02:37:18,400 --> 02:37:21,800
I do, then he must love us
tremendously.

2711
02:37:22,300 --> 02:37:26,500
The atom God Doctrine.
For me has made my heavenly

2712
02:37:26,500 --> 02:37:30,900
father.
So personal that it has enriched

2713
02:37:30,900 --> 02:37:33,100
my relationship with him and
ways.

2714
02:37:33,600 --> 02:37:37,000
That couldn't have been done
without this Doctrine.

2715
02:37:37,200 --> 02:37:40,100
And I know it's true.
And I leave that with whoever is

2716
02:37:40,100 --> 02:37:41,700
listening, in the name of Jesus
Christ.

2717
02:37:41,700 --> 02:37:44,500
Amen.
Jacob, the last word is yours.

2718
02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:47,800
I agree with everything you just
said and that it brings God

2719
02:37:47,800 --> 02:37:51,300
nearer to us and it makes our
relationship with God.

2720
02:37:51,300 --> 02:37:56,500
Even more tangible and more real
and furthermore it plays out,

2721
02:37:56,600 --> 02:38:00,100
you know, our divine Destiny and
more real terms to what we are

2722
02:38:00,100 --> 02:38:03,400
to do.
And attain to in the course of

2723
02:38:03,600 --> 02:38:05,800
Eternal progression.
I'm so grateful for this

2724
02:38:05,800 --> 02:38:08,600
Doctrine and the knowledge that
has been preserved and passed

2725
02:38:08,600 --> 02:38:12,400
down to this to us.
And I say this in the name of

2726
02:38:12,400 --> 02:38:13,600
Jesus Christ.
Amen.

2727
02:38:13,600 --> 02:38:15,900
Amen.
Thanks everybody for tuning in,

2728
02:38:15,900 --> 02:38:17,100
we'll talk to you next time.