Episode #96: Creating A Mormon Fundamentalist Magazine W/Chad Hyde & Greg Knight

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As a Mormon fundamentalist who
believes that we need to let our

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light shine as a people, I
always love to see when others

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get out front and start projects
that look to make the life

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richer of other fundamentalists.
Today I have a couple of men on

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the podcast that seek to do just
that.

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Greg Knight and Chad Hyde come
on to talk about an ambitious

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plan to have a periodical both
digitally and in print.

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During our conversation, we
cover each of their journey into

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Mormon fundamentalism.
What was the motivation behind

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their plan for a Mormon
fundamentalist magazine, and

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what kind of content that
magazine will have?

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Finally, we wrap up with what
their ultimate hope and goal is

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for the magazine that's next on
this episode of the Mormon

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Renegade Podcast.
Look, it's no secret that our

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society has become much more
crude and coarse.

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To become and raise men and
women of virtue and character is

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a Herculean task.
To help with this, I've recently

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wrote and published a book.
Now, back in the 1700s,

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Washington had a book called
Rules of Civility and Decent

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Behavior and Company and
Conversation.

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It was a book with 110 rules
that talked about how to conduct

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yourself like a civilized person
in society, something that

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today's society is sorely
lacking.

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What I did is I went back
through the book and I

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reinterpreted his original
sayings for the 21st century.

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So the book is laid out in a way
in which you see Washington's

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original rule.
Right below that is my

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explanation for the 21st
century, and below that you'll

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find two or three examples of
where to use this in the real

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world.
Now, to go along with this,

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there's a workbook that helps
parents teach these principles

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and practices to their kids.
To find the book, go to

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mormonrenegade.com.
Go to the bottom of the page,

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search out the blog post, and
order your copy today.

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I can bear personal testimony
from personal experience that

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this is an invaluable tool to
help you raise men and women of

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virtue and character.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast, Chad, how you
doing?

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I'm really good, really good,
nice, nice, everything going

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smooth, no hiccups, issues,
anything like that.

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Just moving forward, I mean
life.

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Life is smooth.
The doctrine is true, and the

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Lord's watching over all of us.
Amen.

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Hey.
And now we have Greg.

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Greg, how are you doing tonight?
I am doing fantastic.

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As as Chad said, you know we're
moving forward with this plan

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and it feels good.
It's a it's a it's a it's a

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bright future that's that we
have hopefully in store for this

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message to get out nice nice.
No.

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When you when you guys told me
about the plan that you guys had

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I was I was super stoked with
it.

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I feel like the more voices we
can get out there and

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fundamentalism the better off we
are.

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I think it's it's super
important that people understand

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that that kind of unlike the LDS
church, this is not a monolith,

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right?
There's there's a few different

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expressions of of Mormon
fundamentalism and and I feel

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like it's important to not just
explore those but the

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personalities that that come
along with it.

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I think there's often a common
misconception that we all live

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in Colorado City and we all make
our wives wear those weird

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dresses, but that's definitely
not the case.

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So I'm I'm thankful you guys are
here as always.

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I just want to get a little bit
of background on you guys.

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So let's let's start with with
Greg.

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Now, were you?
Were you raised a fundamentalist

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or?
How did you wake up here?

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No.
I was raised in the mainstream

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church, was baptized and
attended church.

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Three or four days a week, I was
doing something with church, you

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know, all the way up until I was
about 14.

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And when I was 14, something
happened in my life personally

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that just shook my face And you
know, I left and I ended up

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really feeling like, well, first
of all, I I I had discussed for

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the church and I I felt like I
might have hated God for a

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while.
And I I was totally out of the

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church up until about my 30s.
And at which time I thought

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maybe about reinvestigating it,
and I kept getting a bad

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feeling.
It just something didn't feel

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right.
And then one day there's this

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amazing bookstore in a town
called Susanville, CA.

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And I walked in and I found a
couple of books by Ogden Kraut

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on the topic of what I soon
found out was fundamentalism.

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Number one was Adam God.
And second was Jesus was

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married.
And my reading there began a

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pursuit over the last 20 years
of more knowledge, deeper

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knowledge and finally about, I'd
say a year to two years ago, I

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finally committed to, to this
lifestyle, to this belief, to

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this study.
And it's something that I want

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and it's something that I'm
seeking out.

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And that's, that's that's kind
of where it took me.

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It took 20 years to get there.
But I feel like I'm kind of

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arriving at the place where I'm
supposed to be.

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That's awesome.
So was was there ever a moment

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and, and Chad, think about this
a little bit because I'm going

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to ask you the same question
after I, I talk to you.

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Was there a moment at which you
were like, oh crap, I'm a

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fundamentalist, right?
Because I know I had my moment

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where I was like, well, I I
guess I am what I am.

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Was there that moment of
realization for you?

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Yeah, but it wasn't it wasn't
awe crap.

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It was all right.
I was.

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It was actually.
It was actually a couple of days

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ago when I was I had I had had
written some stuff in advance of

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this discussion just for my own
notes and I was thinking about

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this and I'm like you know, I I
have I have no rock to hide

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under.
I don't want to hide my light

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under a bushel.
I'm I'm happy that this is where

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I'm at now and you know, yeah it
was an all right.

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It wasn't an awe crap.
So, you know, I, I and all crap

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in terms of maybe a being a
little facetious, but no, I'm

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I'm, I'm happy with the, the
knowledge of where I'm going.

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You're a better man than I am.
Because you see, I thought, I

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thought Mormonism all the way
through, right?

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Like, I remember when I figured
out that this whole Book of

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Mormon thing was true.
And I just remember after I

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stood up from that prayer and
just kind of sat down on the

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rock next to the fire I had, and
I was like, I don't want to be a

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Mormon.
They're weird, right?

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And then little did I know 20
some years later, I would be

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really Mormon.
But yeah, no, for for me it was

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all the way through.
I was somewhat reluctant and and

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didn't want to do it.
So, Chad, how about you?

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Were you raised in the church as
well?

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My story's a little bit kind of.
It's an inverted story because I

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didn't come to what you called.
LDS Fundamentalism.

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In other words, like the FLDS or
Christchurch, the branch AUB,

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those.
I didn't come to them until

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quite recently, but I've been a
fundamentalist for about 15

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years.
Let me explain a little bit so

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that you understand.
When I was a freshman in

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college, I went to a church
school.

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I was, I am baptized in the
Church of Jesus Christ and of

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Latter Day Saints.
And I I had a problem.

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At that point, I understood all
the doctrines I've been through

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Mcconkey's Mormon doctrine, even
his early 60s and and that, and

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none of that really shocked me.
But I didn't understand polygamy

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and for me it was a devotion to
mother kind of thing.

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And I was like, well, what about
mom's feelings?

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What about mom's needs?
What about, you know, what about

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wife's needs or the female's
needs?

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And so in the in protest, I went
to a religion teacher.

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And I really started laying it
down about why, why, why?

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And it required this LDS
mainstream teacher to adopt A

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different stance and he adopted
an apologetics stance.

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But he was really strong about
it, he said.

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And he basically said he goes,
we do not practice this, But the

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the Prophet Joseph Smith and
others were commanded to do this

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and it was after an order of the
Order of Heaven.

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And he was strong about it,
which, and this was quite some

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time ago.
So I spent a few years studying,

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and I became very acutely aware
over time that that there were

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changes made that couldn't
rightly be termed.

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You can't unreveal A revelation,
and I know you're on board with

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this, but for somebody in the
mainstream church, this is quite

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There was a time probably in
your life where that was a

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perplexing issue.
It's like.

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You say, Oh no, it's revelation.
And then you look at the facts

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and they say, but are they
unrevealing or taking away the

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revelation or are they adding to
it?

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And so through time, I would say
to about 15, maybe 1617 years

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ago, I started adopting stances
in my personal life where I just

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did what you did at the campfire
with with On the rock.

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I said, I said this stuff is
true.

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And I'm not going to skirt a
future potential relationship

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with either Joseph or any of the
other brethren by either

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mocking, ridiculing it or
disparaging it.

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And then you go into the the
studies on on on Wilford

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Woodruff and the rest of it.
We won't.

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I won't cumbrous up with the
time, but the irony of this is I

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adopted about 90% of what's
called fundamentalist fullness

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of the gospel doctrines.
About within the last 15 to 12,

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maybe 10 years, and I sat down.
I'm I've lived all over and I

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lived in what you would call
proverbially the the mission

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field.
Although I have a close affinity

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connection and I do visit Utah,
I never once thought about

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approaching any any polygamists
ever.

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I I just didn't even cross my
mind.

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I thought of it like the Amish,
which was odd because I've been

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a lifelong member.
And so I thought to myself.

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I'm going to have to redo this.
I'm going to have to use my

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ironic priesthood and have
angels visit me and we're just

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going to have to figure out how
to do this in a way where I can

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I can receive some keys and just
start doing this.

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And it was very naive that maybe
not naive, but that was the Tic

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Tac I took.
And so being a Gospel Doctrine

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type person, I just finally came
around to it and about goodness

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has it been a year.
I've I've reached out little

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over a year.
I've reached out to to LDS, what

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you call fundamentalists, or I
call them covenant members of

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the church, so as not to confuse
because it's wider than just the

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FLDS, it's the AUB, it's it's
yourselves, it's the

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independence.
And I reached out to him and I

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realized that they've resolved a
lot of the questions I've had,

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and I just kind of kicked myself
in the room for not.

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Not pursuing that a little
earlier, but it was something

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that didn't come to me.
So it I I came about it after

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1520 years sideways and never
had to get down on my knees and

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ask angels to come lay their
hands on me.

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So as naive as that sounds, no,
I don't think it sounds naive at

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all.
I mean, look, when when I first

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jumped into this thing, right?
And and my story's a little

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different in the sense that I
was a member of the church and

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then I was practicing plural
marriage while going to the LDS

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church, holding callings, all
those other things.

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That marriage fell apart.
The church never found us out.

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So I went back to the LDS church
thinking I could just stuff it

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into a box and forget all about
it and then back out again when

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I just couldn't stand, you know,
it.

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It was, well, it was
well-intentioned and no one did

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it knowingly.
But when you hear stuff that you

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know is patently false and you
sit in the pews and you try to

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digest it, it just doesn't sit
well.

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It gives me a worse case of
heartburn than the spiciest

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Buffalo wings out there.
And so at some point I had to be

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like, look, I I gotta, I gotta
be true to who I am.

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But but I I do know that feeling
right 'cause the the the first

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go round with this, so to speak,
it was just us, right?

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I mean this was 20.
We got into it in 20 in, in

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2007.
It it lasted until about

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20/12/2013 I guess.
But in that time it was just us

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really, right.
I mean, there was no one I could

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go to.
And so that that thing where you

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say it's naive, I don't think
it's naive.

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And and to be honest with you,
Chad, at some point you're going

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to look back and you're going to
realize that that that's some of

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your best time because it was
just you and God in those days,

228
00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:41,540
right?
It was just you sorting stuff

229
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out and there's a certain power
to be had in that for sure.

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Thank you for that.
Thank you.

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00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:50,780
I pretend doctrinally I've been
on board with nearly everything

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you say for at least 15 years.
So I became a fundamentalist 15

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years ago and that that walk,
that leap, I am a what you would

234
00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:06,140
refer to as an independent as
far as you know, receiving my.

235
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Baptisms and might and those
types of things.

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00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:12,540
So I mean, I am so you.
One.

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00:14:12,540 --> 00:14:16,700
One needn't fear, I am AI am a
fundamentalist or covenant LDS

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00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:18,460
member.
I'm a Joseph Smith Mormon.

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00:14:19,060 --> 00:14:20,540
Gotcha.
Gotcha.

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00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:26,580
So with that, I I think what's
interesting now and what I want

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00:14:26,580 --> 00:14:31,180
to explore and I was totally
stoked when when I heard the

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00:14:31,180 --> 00:14:37,370
idea from you and Greg about
this was the idea that of of

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00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:41,090
kind of like a you guys are
planning on quarterly at first,

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00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:42,490
right?
Is that correct?

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00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:46,290
A quarterly magazine?
So David, what we're doing right

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00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:48,570
now is essentially the
fundamental.

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00:14:48,610 --> 00:14:52,610
It's currently A blog, but we do
have the aspiration within the

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00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:57,130
next year or two to become both
a a bona fide website and a

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00:14:57,130 --> 00:15:01,610
quarterly with the idea of doing
monthly as a magazine in print

250
00:15:01,610 --> 00:15:04,310
form.
And it's intended basically as

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00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:07,870
an open dialogue between Mormon
fundamentalists, whether it's a

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00:15:07,870 --> 00:15:12,270
church, a group or independent,
as a means to bring believers

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00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:16,510
together in the Restoration.
So yeah, so we we have the big

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00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:19,790
dream of doing the quarterly
beginning in the next year or

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00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:23,230
two, so once every three months.
But we really want this to

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00:15:23,230 --> 00:15:28,580
become a monthly if if God.
Willing a couple of things here,

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00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:31,820
right.
So whether it's a, you know, a a

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web page or whether it's it's
going to be you know, a hard

259
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:40,580
print magazine, what what do you
see going into that, right,

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00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:44,700
what, what kind of content are
you going to put in there?

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00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:52,140
So if I can, I'll jump in OK.
When, when Greg and I we've

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00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:55,060
we've we've met recently, but
when we really started

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00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:58,290
discussing this.
My feeling when I approached him

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00:15:59,450 --> 00:16:04,610
was this, that a magazine was
necessary in the fundamentalist

265
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:11,690
or the the covenant LDS or
Mormon movement that I believe

266
00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:15,530
needed to look something like
let's say the end sign meet

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00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:17,890
some.
Have you ever, have you ever

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00:16:17,890 --> 00:16:23,050
heard of the the magazine Grit.
It's kind of a a conservative

269
00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:26,270
version of the Mother of News.
It's like the homesteader

270
00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:30,230
version of that, the magazine
that's like the mother of news,

271
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:32,350
but it's geared towards
homesteaders, a little bit more

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00:16:32,350 --> 00:16:35,870
conservative crowd rather than,
you know, the the left.

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00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:40,510
But the long and the short is if
the enzyme meets Grit magazine,

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00:16:40,510 --> 00:16:44,790
the homesteader magazine.
My thought was to to make

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00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:49,990
available to people the ability
to not only share testimonies as

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00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:52,710
the doctrine that are pretty
much mutual.

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00:16:53,630 --> 00:16:56,390
If we do have disagreements to
keep it civil, most of our

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00:16:56,390 --> 00:16:59,790
disagreements are over one man
or keys, things like that.

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00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:03,190
There are some doctrinal issues,
you know, and small tenants like

280
00:17:03,550 --> 00:17:08,270
chocolate and things like that.
But to keep those civil but to

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00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:13,550
proffer, not an expose but say,
hey, look, this is how we do it,

282
00:17:13,550 --> 00:17:17,109
this is how we do it.
This is how it's OK, it's safe.

283
00:17:17,109 --> 00:17:20,710
Now this isn't anything strange
or weird or stigmatized.

284
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:25,099
This is this is how and and do
it in a respectful kind of way.

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00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:29,580
So say we approach some of the
other groups say we approach the

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00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:34,300
Kingston's and we and we offer
up and ask them.

287
00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,780
We we give them the questions.
We offer it.

288
00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:38,940
We take the pictures with their
consent.

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00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:43,620
We bring them and have them
speak their their voice into the

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00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:46,980
magazine or let's say with
yourself, the Christchurch, the

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00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:51,640
branch, or if you know, willing.
AUB or some of the other, you

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00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,880
know, other groups, we were, you
know, there are groups up in

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00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,000
Canada, Winston Blackmore, just
just wonderful people, you know,

294
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,680
that have succeeded I think to a
lot, to a very large degree in

295
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,440
the in the beliefs and doctrines
that we all espouse.

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00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,840
So there's so much to show and
one of the main things from my

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00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,520
perspective I don't know about
Greg, he can answer for himself

298
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,270
is.
There's a burgeoning mainstream

299
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:19,030
fundamentalism.
There's a desire.

300
00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:23,990
There's you on 22,006.
There's myself.

301
00:18:24,190 --> 00:18:26,550
There's other people that know
something's off, something's

302
00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:30,070
wrong, that want to live this
but don't want to remove

303
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:32,790
themselves from the friendships
that naturally occur when they

304
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:36,190
when they find out where one of
those polygamist groups you

305
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:38,230
know.
So that's the hope.

306
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:39,950
It's a it's a magazine
quarterly.

307
00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:44,150
It'll be doctrinal in in intent,
and it hopes to invite in all

308
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:47,670
the.
All of the groups, if they're

309
00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:51,790
willing.
So let let me ask you this

310
00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:54,710
first.
First to Greg, 'cause you said

311
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:57,550
something that I that I found
kind of interesting and I want

312
00:18:57,550 --> 00:19:00,870
to probe this here a little bit.
And then I got something for you

313
00:19:00,870 --> 00:19:05,070
Chad as well.
You said it was a magazine with

314
00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:08,030
the with within hopes of being
an open dialogue.

315
00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:12,270
Can you explain that?
Absolutely.

316
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,440
I believe as fundamentalists
that we have more in common than

317
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,240
we have distinctions.
And in Utah, in Nevada, many

318
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,600
more gathering places across
North America.

319
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,720
You know the term Mormon
fundamentalism has a stigma.

320
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,280
It's had it attached to it for
decades, if not longer.

321
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,960
And what I would hope for, and I
believe Chad is on board with

322
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,120
this, is we want to help remove
that stigma and help fellow

323
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,400
travelers as well as non
believers understand each other.

324
00:19:43,090 --> 00:19:44,930
That's a point we really want to
drive home.

325
00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:48,890
We've got more in common than we
have distinctions, and one of

326
00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:51,970
the best parts of this life is
the agency that we have to

327
00:19:51,970 --> 00:19:55,130
believe the truth or disregard
it.

328
00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:58,170
And I believe that living that
agency is one of the best

329
00:19:58,170 --> 00:20:02,450
aspects of life, just like
obedience to him that reigns is

330
00:20:02,450 --> 00:20:06,130
of the utmost importance.
So it's up to each of us to, you

331
00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:09,970
know, share what we know and
share what we believe in as a

332
00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:11,930
way of gaining ultimate
salvation and hopefully

333
00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:15,200
exaltation.
And, you know, I can say it like

334
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,680
this.
It's kind of a cool little story

335
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,240
I like to tell people.
But basically I look, I'll tell

336
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,080
you what I did.
I heard it from a wise man once.

337
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,000
He told me the restoration is
like a pane of glass.

338
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:30,880
And right now that pane of glass
is shattered into pieces.

339
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,920
It's everywhere.
It's been like that for decades.

340
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,840
And the fundamentalist movement,
he told me, is really the only

341
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,560
way that those pieces of the
restoration are going to get put

342
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,140
back together in a hole.
And to do that, we have to talk

343
00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:45,820
to each other.
That's what I believe.

344
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,220
Awesome.
All right, Chad, a couple for

345
00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:52,180
you.
You used this term a couple of

346
00:20:52,180 --> 00:20:55,980
times, a covenant LDS person.
What do you mean by that?

347
00:20:59,180 --> 00:21:03,660
I look at our religion as an
offshoot it it was a natural.

348
00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:06,410
It had to happen and for a lot
of reasons.

349
00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:09,250
Not just because Nephi predicted
and and all the prophets

350
00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:12,690
predicted it or the safe even
more than the Saviour wanted it.

351
00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:17,050
Back on earth there were
primordial or primitive

352
00:21:17,050 --> 00:21:19,330
covenants that were on the earth
that were lost.

353
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:23,370
When we say things like apostasy
a lot of us think of like really

354
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:27,450
scary gothic churches.
Well, there was a time to pre

355
00:21:27,450 --> 00:21:32,250
goth when those assemblages had
covenants and those things went

356
00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:35,210
away.
Now when we look at our own

357
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:38,890
mainstream, our mother churches,
it's called occasionally they've

358
00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:43,930
moved away since the 1890s and
and throughout from a lot of

359
00:21:43,930 --> 00:21:48,130
basic doctrines of basic
practices and alterations in

360
00:21:48,330 --> 00:21:52,890
let's say temple ordinances and
covenants away from that.

361
00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:56,290
And that blurs distinctions, it
de clarifies.

362
00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:59,650
And there's a lot that's lost if
you walk up to a mainstreamer

363
00:21:59,650 --> 00:22:01,930
and say.
What exactly does Heavenly

364
00:22:01,930 --> 00:22:05,290
Father look and act like?
They just look at you blankly

365
00:22:05,290 --> 00:22:08,050
and say, I love my Savior Jesus
Christ and I want to return to

366
00:22:08,050 --> 00:22:12,530
my Heavenly Father and as and as
beautiful and gentle as that is.

367
00:22:12,530 --> 00:22:16,010
It's not enough because the
scriptures say this is life

368
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:20,010
eternal to know thee, the only
wise and living God and Jesus

369
00:22:20,010 --> 00:22:23,090
Christ whom now ascent.
So you walk up to a a

370
00:22:23,090 --> 00:22:25,890
fundamentalist or a covenant or
that keeps the covenants that

371
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:29,690
keep it clean and keep it and
keep it pure, they'll say.

372
00:22:30,060 --> 00:22:34,180
It is Michael, and the highest
hope is to become, through the

373
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:39,940
Savior's Atonement, sufficient,
raised up to be clean enough to

374
00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:43,700
live the fullness of celestial
law, which is, as we know,

375
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:46,580
plural celestial marriage, the
Council of 50, the Kingdom of

376
00:22:46,580 --> 00:22:50,020
God, and and also the law of
consecration.

377
00:22:50,260 --> 00:22:53,380
But what is our hope?
We want to be just like our

378
00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:56,300
Father Michael or Heavenly
Father, the only God with which

379
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,510
we have to do so.
How do I define Father in

380
00:22:59,510 --> 00:23:01,350
Heaven?
I look at first man.

381
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:07,190
I look at that relationship that
he had with his his first man,

382
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:10,430
his God, his Father and his
Savior, Jehovah.

383
00:23:10,910 --> 00:23:14,950
And I say even as I went through
the temple, I always knew it

384
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:18,630
says you and all of you must
place yourself as Adam at the

385
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:21,110
altar.
And I remember that in the

386
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:24,710
mainstream church years, decades
ago, just saying our highest

387
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:27,090
hope is to be Adam.
And then they say things like

388
00:23:27,090 --> 00:23:30,890
kings and priests and it's just,
it just resonates.

389
00:23:30,890 --> 00:23:35,730
So the notion of being able to
fully develop the concept of our

390
00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:39,810
Father in heaven into a real and
tangible thing that requires

391
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:43,330
covenants that stay clean.
So when I say covenant Mormon,

392
00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:47,490
I'm looking at a group, not just
one, but groups of people that

393
00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:50,330
look at each other and say
they'll say these beautiful

394
00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:51,690
things.
I want to be a Mormon like

395
00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:53,730
Joseph Smith was.
And that's so.

396
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:55,930
That's such a tender, beautiful
thing.

397
00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:59,330
But what we're really saying is
we're saying there are covenants

398
00:23:59,330 --> 00:24:03,530
that Joseph elucidated for us
were given by angels and even by

399
00:24:03,530 --> 00:24:07,490
Father and Jesus himself.
And those covenants will lead us

400
00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:11,450
to the practicality of becoming
a Michael and creating and

401
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,650
seeding worlds.
And I know that's probably

402
00:24:13,650 --> 00:24:15,730
pretty heavy.
Most of the people that are

403
00:24:15,730 --> 00:24:19,210
listening are going to
understand or some of them, our

404
00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:21,170
fundamentals are going to
understand if there's

405
00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:23,690
mainstream, even mainstream
fundamentalist.

406
00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:27,140
I would ask you David, that's
our highest hope, isn't it?

407
00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:30,220
With our wives absolutely rules
and have each other that's

408
00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:33,500
that's that's our goal.
Our religion and our virtue is

409
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,660
geared towards that.
You can't get it in the

410
00:24:35,660 --> 00:24:38,020
mainstream church, you can only
get it through pureness of

411
00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:40,140
covenant.
So that's why I use that.

412
00:24:40,820 --> 00:24:45,420
OK, all right.
And so and let me say this along

413
00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:46,140
with that.
Right.

414
00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:49,700
Not only.
And this was something I

415
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:52,580
discovered once I became a
fundamentalist.

416
00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:56,740
Is that?
A lot of what Joseph Smith

417
00:24:56,780 --> 00:25:00,540
taught was and it all boiled
down to look, I had my

418
00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:05,860
experience with deity and you
can too and call me simplistic,

419
00:25:05,860 --> 00:25:09,660
but I kind of took Joseph at his
word on that, right where where

420
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:12,860
those teachings lead up to this,
this idea of you can have an

421
00:25:12,860 --> 00:25:15,620
experience with with deity or or
the divine.

422
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:19,620
Maybe not face to face, but
certainly you should be having,

423
00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:25,400
in my opinion, as as a Mormon.
One of the things that that I

424
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,680
found extremely engaging was
this thought of, well, I can

425
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,760
talk to God and not only can I
talk to him, but he's he's

426
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,800
willing to talk to me and in a
couple different ways.

427
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,000
And so I I look at Mormonism.
I'm thinking, if you don't have

428
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,720
those encounters with the divine
somewhat regularly, right?

429
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,840
I'm not saying every week on
Tuesday and you go play

430
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,370
racquetball with the big JC.
But you know, you, you, you

431
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:58,410
experience inspiration and
revelation and learning new

432
00:25:58,410 --> 00:26:01,770
things all the time.
I feel like in my opinion,

433
00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:03,370
you're not doing Mormonism
right.

434
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:07,610
And there was a space of time
there, about 10 years of me

435
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:11,020
being in the church where.
It started out that way but then

436
00:26:11,020 --> 00:26:14,420
it just kind of gradually waned
right And and I thought, OK

437
00:26:14,420 --> 00:26:17,020
that's something with me.
I I've got and and not that

438
00:26:17,020 --> 00:26:18,260
there wasn't something wrong
with me.

439
00:26:18,260 --> 00:26:24,540
I I've constantly got to repent.
But I thought it was all me all

440
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:26,860
the time, right?
And so I'm like what am I doing

441
00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:28,020
wrong?
What am I doing wrong?

442
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:30,140
Why can't I get those
experiences anymore.

443
00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:32,260
And it was only until I
embraced.

444
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,880
All the covenants I embraced,
all that knowledge that that was

445
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,760
piled up in not just the
scriptures but journal

446
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,320
discourses and those types of
things that that revelation and

447
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,400
that inspiration and those
encounters with the divine

448
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,440
really started again.
So I think it's more not not

449
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,080
only is that our highest goal,
those those eternal blessings

450
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760
and and being called up and
crowned at some point.

451
00:26:59,350 --> 00:27:03,590
But also this idea of in the
day-to-day we should be, we

452
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:06,990
should be having those
experiences of of encountering

453
00:27:06,990 --> 00:27:10,110
the divine pretty regularly, or
else we're not really cashing in

454
00:27:10,110 --> 00:27:14,030
all the chips that we could in
this, this Mormon theology.

455
00:27:14,990 --> 00:27:19,190
What a perfect, perfect segue.
I I I agree with you.

456
00:27:19,230 --> 00:27:22,750
And not only do I agree with you
on the blog the Fundamentalist

457
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:28,070
magazine or the Fundamentalist
Mag blog site, I just wrote a.

458
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,960
An article about prayer circles
and how it's the very pinnacle

459
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,600
of our religion on this earth.
Being that it is communication

460
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,720
with the divine, its highest
hopes is to bring divinity and

461
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,200
the very highest like Joseph, to
bring our Father and the Saviour

462
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,880
down physically to us.
That we can pray in our

463
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,720
families, temple covenanted
families and have those visual

464
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,660
physical experiences.
Now, to be sure, we've all been

465
00:27:55,660 --> 00:27:58,180
in prayer circles and we felt
inspiration.

466
00:27:58,180 --> 00:28:01,540
Maybe some of us have seen
angels and ministering spirits,

467
00:28:01,820 --> 00:28:05,220
but the highest hope is our
prayer circles.

468
00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:09,980
If we live a terrestrial life in
this telestial world and we get

469
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:13,700
celestial visitors, if we're
entitled to that, I truly

470
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:16,060
believe that's in the in the,
what we call the true order of

471
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:19,060
prayer.
And so we do.

472
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,870
We do get.
To have that, if we're

473
00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:25,430
righteous, and it's not just
some smokescreen or play, it's

474
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:28,990
not something quaint that we do
that is our highest hopes.

475
00:28:29,230 --> 00:28:31,910
And as fundamentalist or
covenant LDS or covenant

476
00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:34,110
Mormons, we know these things
are true.

477
00:28:34,110 --> 00:28:36,590
We've we've read and had
experiences, we've heard

478
00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:40,070
testimonies and believe those
testimonies, that those things

479
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:43,110
did happen, not just with Joseph
Smith or Brigham Young or John

480
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:47,270
Taylor, in that beautiful,
wonderful, sublime 1886

481
00:28:47,270 --> 00:28:49,540
revelation.
But ourselves.

482
00:28:49,540 --> 00:28:50,980
Yourself.
Your family.

483
00:28:51,540 --> 00:28:54,580
So yeah, I mean, I'm with you
100%.

484
00:28:55,940 --> 00:28:59,740
So real quick, what was the
genesis of the idea?

485
00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:04,700
I mean, look, I I can tell you
my own experience with the

486
00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:08,060
podcast.
It comes out of just me thinking

487
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:10,220
about my journey, how I got to
the point of being a

488
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:12,500
fundamentalist.
What was it?

489
00:29:13,180 --> 00:29:16,620
What was the catalyst for this
idea with you two guys?

490
00:29:18,190 --> 00:29:21,790
I think that I kind of, well,
I've been a journalist for,

491
00:29:22,030 --> 00:29:27,070
gosh, almost 20 years.
So I just love to write and I

492
00:29:27,070 --> 00:29:31,310
love to write passionately about
things about For most of my

493
00:29:31,310 --> 00:29:35,830
career it's been about sports or
government, which, you know, I

494
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:37,830
can be passionate for as long as
you pay me.

495
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:42,950
But in terms of this, you don't
have to pay me a dime to write

496
00:29:42,950 --> 00:29:46,310
about this.
And again, I'm a believer in

497
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:49,190
communication.
And so I pitched the idea to

498
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:52,230
Chad.
And, you know, I look at Chad as

499
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:54,230
the theologian I am.
I am.

500
00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:57,150
He's far deeper of a theologian
than I am.

501
00:29:57,430 --> 00:30:02,470
And so I trust in his ability to
recall Scripture and guide me in

502
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:06,230
the right directions.
And I I I can take what I do as

503
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:09,990
a writer and journalist and then
try to build a community.

504
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:13,150
And it's just it's a concept.
It it came to me one day, it was

505
00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:15,830
out of the blue.
I I don't know if it was angels

506
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:19,320
ministering to me or what, but
the idea just came about a year

507
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,000
and a half ago and I talked to
Chad and I'm like, what do you

508
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,720
think about this?
And it's been growing ever

509
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,560
since.
And about, I'd say two months

510
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,520
ago I finally ordered up the the
blog space and started laying it

511
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,840
out and creating it.
And we've been adding pieces of

512
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,800
our own writing to it since it
began.

513
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,200
But that's how it's it's
starting as a blog.

514
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,640
I want to start online first
because you know the world is

515
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,760
online.
I don't think the world's always

516
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,760
going to be online.
I'm I'm a bit of a a doomsday

517
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,160
prepper in that manner.
I don't think the World Wide Web

518
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,200
will always be here.
And so that's why I want the

519
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,000
printed word.
I come from a newspaper

520
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,280
background and so if I can put
things that are, you know, the

521
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,960
printed word into the hands of
believers and those who've never

522
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,040
heard of fundamentalism or
covenant, LDS is Chad likes to

523
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,440
describe them.
I'm all for it.

524
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,050
Get the word out.
Chad, Chad, what was your

525
00:31:15,050 --> 00:31:18,290
thought when, when, when Greg
here pitched the idea?

526
00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:26,130
Hey, so I the the idea came as I
was reading several things from

527
00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:31,250
some of the I refer to down
there, down there, between

528
00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:35,250
Arizona and Utah, those cities
down there, the FLDS, it's

529
00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:39,490
really the the cradle.
When you get back to Musser, 90%

530
00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:42,330
of us draw.
Our inspiration or priesthood

531
00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:45,810
lines through Musser, through
through Lauren and John Wooley.

532
00:31:46,290 --> 00:31:49,650
And so when I was reading some
of those older, I think it was

533
00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:54,410
called Truth the Truth
periodicals.

534
00:31:54,410 --> 00:31:57,410
I approached Greg and Greg is
light years.

535
00:31:57,410 --> 00:31:59,610
You should have seen some of the
slicks that he put together,

536
00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:03,570
some of the the the, the, the
contacts and prep paper.

537
00:32:03,570 --> 00:32:06,970
He has the ability, because he
has the the knowledge of this,

538
00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:09,850
to put it in magazine style so
that it looks.

539
00:32:10,220 --> 00:32:12,660
Almost Architectural Digest if
he wants to.

540
00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:15,460
I mean those kind of quality of
print.

541
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:20,180
I was looking for something more
enzyme meets, like I said, Grit

542
00:32:20,180 --> 00:32:24,540
magazine homesteading.
I was looking for not just

543
00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:28,580
doctrinal or even not like
interviews.

544
00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:33,780
Getting to know people like
yourself, Michael Peterson, you

545
00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:36,980
know, going out to some of the
others up in Montana or even up

546
00:32:36,980 --> 00:32:39,860
to Winston Blackmore and and
having them say hey.

547
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,040
Here we are.
This is what we this is what we

548
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,320
are.
This is what we represent,

549
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160
bringing a sense of community.
Heaven.

550
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,440
For me it it is a place because
it has to naturally be

551
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,280
somewhere.
Heaven for me is people.

552
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,920
People is the heaven.
And Heavenly Father understood

553
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,440
that Jesus understood that it
was always posterity.

554
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,280
It's the joy and the posterity.
And you need an earth, and you

555
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,800
need an.
You need a, a heavenly abode

556
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,350
place closest to Kolob.
However that looks.

557
00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:12,910
So the place is important, but
the people are what's crucial.

558
00:33:13,150 --> 00:33:16,630
And as I looked around
fundamentalist covenant Mormon

559
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:21,990
peoples, I saw not fracture so
much as coming out of all of the

560
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:24,350
persecution over the last two
decades.

561
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:28,430
I mean, if you were starting in
O six, you were you were looking

562
00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:32,150
at least at a felony for just
cohabitation itself.

563
00:33:32,390 --> 00:33:34,470
That was in O6 when you were
mainstream.

564
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:37,460
Now it's not so bad.
It's like, I think it's a

565
00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:41,660
misdemeanor if they even care.
And the AG in Utah expressed no

566
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:44,180
desire to to have cops chasing
people around.

567
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:47,980
You guys want to hear something
cool?

568
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:56,900
Speaking of the AG, so when I
was probably I was probably five

569
00:33:56,900 --> 00:34:01,180
or six months into this thing
and I got this strange e-mail

570
00:34:01,180 --> 00:34:03,700
once from a guy, I'm not going
to say his name.

571
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:09,290
But the, the, the last part of
the e-mail address was at

572
00:34:09,290 --> 00:34:16,090
utahag.gov and I was like, come
on someone's I'm getting punked

573
00:34:16,090 --> 00:34:19,730
here.
And so I I thought, well, I'll

574
00:34:19,730 --> 00:34:22,290
just call this guy up because it
had his number at the bottom.

575
00:34:22,290 --> 00:34:25,010
And get to the bottom of this.
There's actually people who

576
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:28,730
listen to the podcast that work
in the A GS office here in Utah,

577
00:34:29,770 --> 00:34:32,520
which.
I thought was crazy, right?

578
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,600
And and it it seemed like, at
least for me personally, I won't

579
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960
say for everyone else, 'cause
I'm not that vain.

580
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,280
But it seemed like a watershed
moment for me where I was like,

581
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,960
OK, we're all right, right?
We can come out of the shadows a

582
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,639
little bit here.
They're not looking to to to

583
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,639
crack on us anymore.
And so I thought that was kind

584
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:55,920
of a cool experience.
The the other thing that I'll

585
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,080
say is that.
Just this past June, me and the

586
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,880
girls were just sitting down
watching TV and some stuff about

587
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,760
Pride month came out.
And I remember I looked at the

588
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,360
girls, I was like, you remember
when the weirdest lifestyle was

589
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,360
ours?
And I I just feel like we're in

590
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,360
a different time now where we
can be more open, we can be more

591
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,160
transparent.
And and quite frankly, I think

592
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,440
we have to be, because we're in
this phase now where if we don't

593
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,720
tell our story, we're going to
acquiesce to let somebody else

594
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:27,520
tell that story.
And they may not get it right,

595
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,960
they may not have a desire to
get it right.

596
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,920
So it becomes incumbent upon us
through things like you guys are

597
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,120
doing to be able to tell our
story and get that out there.

598
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,360
So I I commend you for that.
So, David, I I want to accrue

599
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,120
with you 100%.
In fact, you you mirrored

600
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,240
something I just wrote last
night I I've seen two days ago.

601
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,560
And that is the the title of the
article is called Controlling

602
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,200
the Mormon Fundamental
Narrative.

603
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,000
And it's exactly something I
wrote about saying that, you

604
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,560
know, for too long the
mainstream media and the LDS

605
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Church have been in charge of
defining the discussion on

606
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,520
fundamentalism.
And that's part of what we're

607
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,840
trying to do, is take that power
back and become the bearers of

608
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,160
truth as it is and not as others
want it to be portrayed.

609
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,960
Right.
Well, and the other thing I'll

610
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,120
say is you guys are doing
something that is very Mormon.

611
00:36:21,370 --> 00:36:24,370
Right.
Mormonism's unique in the sense

612
00:36:24,370 --> 00:36:28,850
that it comes about when a good
portion of the of society.

613
00:36:28,850 --> 00:36:32,610
I won't say most, but probably
most, maybe 5050.

614
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:36,610
Mormonism comes about when
literacy is skyrocketing through

615
00:36:36,610 --> 00:36:39,890
mankind.
So if you look at you know

616
00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:42,970
things in the Dark Ages, you
were reliant upon a priest to

617
00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:46,490
read the Bible to you and then
give you the interpretation

618
00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:50,740
thereof.
And the the same with with

619
00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:54,940
Methodism and you know most
Protestantism and not that

620
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:57,500
they're not great religions, You
know, I know a lot of people

621
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,820
from a lot of different faith
traditions and they're great

622
00:36:59,820 --> 00:37:02,300
people.
But Mormonism was unique that it

623
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:08,140
came came about when most
literacy was taking off, right.

624
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:12,300
And what that did is that that
gave Joseph Smith and and other

625
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:15,180
early leaders of the Church the
opportunity to do things like.

626
00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:17,510
Right.
The times and seasons, the

627
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:19,630
millennial star, those things,
right.

628
00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:24,270
And so Mormonism itself has a
rich history of publication

629
00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:26,590
because of of the time that it
came forward.

630
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:30,670
So I think you guys are right
there on the carrying on that

631
00:37:30,670 --> 00:37:35,350
tradition for sure.
What as you look at trying to

632
00:37:35,350 --> 00:37:40,310
get this going here, Greg, you
talked about it as just being a

633
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:46,260
blog right now.
As far as content, I mean let,

634
00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:49,260
let, let's try to narrow down
the content a little bit more.

635
00:37:49,260 --> 00:37:52,140
You alluded to it somewhat, but
it was pretty broad.

636
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,700
So they'll be stuff on doctrinal
issues, right?

637
00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:57,580
What?
What other kinds of things is

638
00:37:57,580 --> 00:37:58,860
this magazine going to have in
it?

639
00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:02,020
Well, you're right.
There will be doctrinal that I

640
00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:04,060
want what?
What Chad and I want to see is

641
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:07,260
everything.
We want testimonies, we want

642
00:38:07,820 --> 00:38:13,280
stories, we want photos.
I mean, photo spreads, we want

643
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,520
everything.
This isn't one-dimensional for

644
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,680
the writing that Chad and I do.
Chad, you'll find is is more of

645
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,600
the doctrinaire.
He's very, very, very versed in

646
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,800
the doctrine, in the scripture
and so he writes that with verb.

647
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,960
He's very good at it.
I'm more of the the Randy

648
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:36,200
editorializing, telling a funny
story kind of writer.

649
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,560
But it all comes back to is it
true?

650
00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:42,270
Is it is it what is it faith
promoting.

651
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:47,550
And I believe that it is in
anything that Chad and I have

652
00:38:47,550 --> 00:38:53,390
done a good example I wrote AI
wrote an article back on October

653
00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:56,630
3rd called Sorry bro Wrong
church.

654
00:38:57,070 --> 00:39:00,550
And it was all about the
experiences I've had in when I

655
00:39:00,550 --> 00:39:05,190
lived in Utah and actually even
Nevada, when people would find

656
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:09,430
out that I had a Mormon
background and invariably it

657
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:12,390
would be a man saying, wait a
minute, so you've got like 6

658
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:15,270
wives, right?
No, no, no, I don't.

659
00:39:15,670 --> 00:39:18,310
But fundamentalist believe in
Mormonism plus five wives,

660
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:20,470
right?
I'm like, no, sorry, bro, wrong

661
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:24,350
church.
And it's funny because I just

662
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:27,150
want to break that stigma and I
I feel that I can write about it

663
00:39:27,150 --> 00:39:30,910
in a very humanistic lived
experience kind of way.

664
00:39:31,230 --> 00:39:36,220
And so I think between Chad and
myself, we have a very good way

665
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:39,660
of offsetting each other between
the serious and the the

666
00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:43,140
whimsical, but still being
doctrinally found.

667
00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:46,820
And in terms of what we want to
see, we want to see people that

668
00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:51,220
can do the same, whether it be a
church leader in any group or

669
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:53,020
church.
It could be an independent.

670
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:57,300
I'd love to see a sister wife
write about how she manages with

671
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:00,380
her sister wives to cook a meal
for 35 kids.

672
00:40:00,460 --> 00:40:04,340
I'd love to see that and and
photos to go with it if if they

673
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:07,500
wanted to send that in.
So it it encompasses the whole

674
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:11,300
breadth of the lifestyle and the
lived experience as a

675
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,420
fundamentalist is what I want to
see and I'm.

676
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:15,220
I'm pretty sure Chad agrees with
that.

677
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:20,610
You know, if I could just add in
there, there is that and and all

678
00:40:20,610 --> 00:40:24,210
aspects to not just to not just
to be exclusive in some of

679
00:40:24,210 --> 00:40:28,010
those, but, you know, it's some
of these people do run little

680
00:40:28,010 --> 00:40:31,970
mini farms or homesteads.
You know, just simple things

681
00:40:31,970 --> 00:40:35,210
like, you know, kids helping
around with the chores and you

682
00:40:35,210 --> 00:40:38,850
know, getting eggs for chickens,
poetry.

683
00:40:39,130 --> 00:40:41,210
And there are those that do
among us.

684
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:43,610
There are those that wear
Prairie dresses and pull their

685
00:40:43,610 --> 00:40:45,850
hair up.
You know, maybe a maybe an

686
00:40:45,850 --> 00:40:48,770
article now and again on how to
make a really nice flowery

687
00:40:49,110 --> 00:40:52,510
Prairie dress that might not
interest, say, myself or Dave,

688
00:40:52,510 --> 00:40:56,070
you or your wives.
I look horrible.

689
00:40:56,070 --> 00:40:57,390
Yeah.
I look, well, you and I would,

690
00:40:57,390 --> 00:41:00,750
but I'm saying your wives maybe
yes, maybe no, but I mean it.

691
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:05,390
What is important here is the
common, the commonality of where

692
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:09,110
we're coming from.
And you know I I know about the

693
00:41:09,110 --> 00:41:12,670
problems and I'm well versed in
the issues as far as the the

694
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:16,890
problems that came out of those
towns but that was the cradle.

695
00:41:16,970 --> 00:41:20,330
I I have to go back to that it
decades ago that's where muster

696
00:41:20,330 --> 00:41:23,690
was that that's the cradle of
our fundamentalist beliefs for

697
00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:27,770
90% of us without discluding any
of the others like harm stands

698
00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:32,090
or the OR the Kingston's or the
others you know they they still

699
00:41:32,090 --> 00:41:35,650
have people down there.
And so those types of things

700
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:38,410
just just good interest happy
interest stories.

701
00:41:38,410 --> 00:41:40,850
I would like to do interviews.
I would like to interview

702
00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:45,160
yourself as probably a lightning
rod for fundamentalism.

703
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,200
I know that you have quite the
following as far as it goes.

704
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,160
I mean, just things like that in
we're going to be online, it's

705
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,560
going to go to an online
magazine type that will open up

706
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,280
to all platforms, be it Apple,
iPad, iPod, you know, the

707
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,120
Android services.
And then there's going to be

708
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,400
print for those that want it as
well.

709
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,120
So you can receive a magazine
enzyme style in your mailbox

710
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,010
though.
Right.

711
00:42:11,010 --> 00:42:13,570
And also, Dave, I want to add
what it's not.

712
00:42:13,890 --> 00:42:17,090
And the fundamentalist is never
going to act, ever.

713
00:42:17,530 --> 00:42:19,490
And and Chad and I are in full
agreement on this.

714
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:23,930
It'll never act as a mouthpiece
for any group or church or

715
00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:26,130
independent.
And it doesn't matter if

716
00:42:26,130 --> 00:42:30,050
someone's a follower of the
FLBS, the AUB, the Righteous

717
00:42:30,050 --> 00:42:33,690
branch, Winston Blackmore's
group, Second Ward or anybody

718
00:42:33,690 --> 00:42:36,250
else.
We want everybody to take part

719
00:42:36,250 --> 00:42:38,730
in the discussion.
But what we're not going to do

720
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:42,190
is ever allow submissions.
Or you write submissions, ever

721
00:42:42,190 --> 00:42:45,310
of our own that denigrate
anybody else's faith or

722
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:47,710
opinions.
This episode of the podcast is

723
00:42:47,710 --> 00:42:49,870
brought to you by Deseret
flag.com.

724
00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:52,110
I've said this before, and I
really mean it.

725
00:42:52,110 --> 00:42:54,750
Mormonism isn't just a religion,
it's a culture.

726
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:57,830
As such, it has its own
vernacular and practices, but

727
00:42:57,830 --> 00:43:00,590
also its own symbols.
And those symbols become even

728
00:43:00,590 --> 00:43:02,830
more important and prominent
when you look back into our

729
00:43:02,830 --> 00:43:04,670
history.
Perhaps one of the most

730
00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:07,590
recognizable symbols of
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.

731
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:11,190
This is the flag that I use as
cover art in this podcast.

732
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:14,630
This was also used for a good
chunk of time during the pioneer

733
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:17,310
era in Utah.
Now, today we have people who

734
00:43:17,310 --> 00:43:20,310
want to replace the existing
Utah flag with some other

735
00:43:20,310 --> 00:43:23,350
progressive monstrosity.
Well, I think it's damp past

736
00:43:23,350 --> 00:43:26,030
time that we start pushing back
here a little bit in Utah.

737
00:43:26,490 --> 00:43:29,090
Our friends at Defending Utah
are here to help you with that.

738
00:43:29,290 --> 00:43:32,210
Now, if you go to
deseretflag.com, you can now

739
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:34,210
purchase your own Deseret State
flag.

740
00:43:34,650 --> 00:43:37,850
It's time here that we start
making ourselves known and join

741
00:43:37,850 --> 00:43:40,650
the resistance against those who
seek to rewrite our state's

742
00:43:40,650 --> 00:43:44,170
history.
Go to deseretflag.com or check

743
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:47,810
out the link in this episode's
page Show notes and get yours

744
00:43:47,810 --> 00:43:49,770
today.
Can't get enough of the Mormon

745
00:43:49,770 --> 00:43:52,090
Renegade podcast?
Well, good news.

746
00:43:52,290 --> 00:43:54,810
We're on Patreon and there's
three packages that you can

747
00:43:54,810 --> 00:43:57,290
choose from.
The first one, the Slightly

748
00:43:57,290 --> 00:44:00,530
Rowdy package, allows you to
hear the podcast without all

749
00:44:00,530 --> 00:44:02,490
those pesky commercials getting
in the way.

750
00:44:02,930 --> 00:44:05,610
For those who want a slightly
more in depth experience,

751
00:44:05,610 --> 00:44:08,530
there's the Stirring It Up
package where you can hear ad

752
00:44:08,530 --> 00:44:11,530
free audio, ad free video and
transcripts.

753
00:44:12,010 --> 00:44:15,410
Finally, for those who want to
go full Renegade, that package

754
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:18,090
is available too, where you can
get everything in the previous

755
00:44:18,090 --> 00:44:22,130
two packages, plus an extra show
where myself and Ben Winfield

756
00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:25,250
breakdown the news of the day
from a very Mormon point of

757
00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:27,320
view.
You will also get exclusive

758
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,120
access to Renegade Chat, and on
there you'll be able to talk to

759
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,600
others about the show or
whatever topics are on your

760
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,440
mind.
Go to Patreon today and get your

761
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,520
exclusive content.
And on the flip side of that,

762
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,760
we're never going to edit
people's submissions for content

763
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,560
as long as it really adheres to
as we believe it, but the

764
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,640
concept of love one another.
We're not trying to preach the

765
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,640
restoration, we're just trying
to make the views of restoration

766
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,240
known to each other around the
world.

767
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:57,700
So that's really what we don't
want to do.

768
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:01,540
We will never allow negativity
to be a part.

769
00:45:02,220 --> 00:45:03,940
You know, one group criticizing
another group.

770
00:45:03,940 --> 00:45:06,220
Criticizing another group.
Oh, you're one man rule.

771
00:45:06,220 --> 00:45:07,820
Well, we're a council.
You guys suck.

772
00:45:08,220 --> 00:45:10,180
We're not going to do or take
part in that.

773
00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:14,100
Gotcha, Gotcha.
I know that's been a big goal of

774
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:16,880
mine is to.
To stay away from the trash

775
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,240
talking of other groups I doing
this I've had the the

776
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,080
opportunity and the blessing of
meeting a lot of great people

777
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,240
from a lot of different faith
traditions within within

778
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,800
Mormonism.
Whether that's you know someone

779
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,160
from an organized group an
independent the LDS church what

780
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,760
whatever the case is I've I've
been blessed enough to to hear

781
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,440
that and and and see just as you
were saying there's more there

782
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,280
that unites us and separates us
because.

783
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:54,150
If you get into that business
of, oh, bashing somebody else,

784
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:56,430
it's not a good place to be,
right?

785
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:59,710
One is is I think it shows that
you're not really sold on your

786
00:45:59,710 --> 00:46:06,470
own theology. 2.
What I'll say is that it fosters

787
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:10,350
this, this, this thing that
happens where we cannibalize

788
00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:13,790
each other and while we're
arguing about the little stuff.

789
00:46:14,170 --> 00:46:16,410
Well, the adversary's lighting,
the house on fire.

790
00:46:17,050 --> 00:46:19,970
And so at some point we're gonna
have to work together.

791
00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:23,050
We're gonna have to reach across
the spectrum and and pull folks

792
00:46:23,050 --> 00:46:25,850
who wanna work together to
establish Zion or any of those

793
00:46:25,850 --> 00:46:28,090
other things, we're gonna have
to pull them together.

794
00:46:29,050 --> 00:46:32,130
And that means that we have to
1st get to know each other in

795
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:35,850
order to make this thing work.
And that's that's really the

796
00:46:36,850 --> 00:46:38,490
that's really been an
overarching.

797
00:46:39,930 --> 00:46:42,930
The rest of of my podcast is
being able to do that, just

798
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:45,610
facilitate some understanding
more than anything else.

799
00:46:45,610 --> 00:46:52,850
So I commend you guys for that.
How do you see this for LDS

800
00:46:52,850 --> 00:46:55,570
folks?
Cause 'cause, look, here's the

801
00:46:55,570 --> 00:46:58,130
thing.
Every once in a while you get an

802
00:46:58,130 --> 00:47:01,410
aberration of some guy who's a
Baptist who decides, you know

803
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:03,770
what, I think that Mormon
fundamentalists have this down,

804
00:47:04,210 --> 00:47:08,010
but by and large, the, you know,
fundamentalists are coming out

805
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:12,050
of the LDS Church.
And I've said for a while that I

806
00:47:12,050 --> 00:47:15,530
think we're on the eve and I
think right now morning might be

807
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:19,330
breaking on a day when there's a
mass exodus out of the LDS

808
00:47:19,330 --> 00:47:22,690
Church.
So how are you guys going to try

809
00:47:22,690 --> 00:47:25,370
to incorporate some of the
incorporate some of this stuff

810
00:47:25,850 --> 00:47:30,330
for for mainstreamers?
Can I can I jump in on this?

811
00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:34,790
Greg can.
You take that one Chad, OK the

812
00:47:34,910 --> 00:47:38,310
our hope we we believe like you
do that that's going to happen.

813
00:47:38,310 --> 00:47:42,110
Mainstream fundamentalism is
going to be is right now.

814
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:44,510
It's kind of in a larval stage,
but it's growing.

815
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:47,150
Stop right there.
Stop right there for a second.

816
00:47:47,150 --> 00:47:49,310
Chad, I'm going to ask you to
explain what mainstream

817
00:47:49,310 --> 00:47:52,870
fundamentalism is.
OK, if we could go back, say, 2

818
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:55,230
decades, 3 decades in both of
our lives.

819
00:47:55,550 --> 00:47:57,950
It's where you're sitting in a
Pew in a church that you've

820
00:47:57,950 --> 00:48:00,110
grown up in, that you love
dearly.

821
00:48:00,110 --> 00:48:03,350
You know all your friends and
you know all of the rote

822
00:48:03,350 --> 00:48:04,870
routines.
You know how to bury your

823
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:06,790
testimony.
You know about tithing

824
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:08,590
settlements.
You you've been to the temple

825
00:48:08,590 --> 00:48:10,550
trips.
You know what to say, what not

826
00:48:10,550 --> 00:48:11,790
to say.
You know the triggers and the

827
00:48:11,790 --> 00:48:13,590
rest of it.
And you're asking yourself

828
00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:17,310
repeatedly while you're sitting
in that Pew, what would Joseph

829
00:48:17,310 --> 00:48:18,830
Smith do if he was in this
building?

830
00:48:18,830 --> 00:48:20,870
How would Brigham and his wives
feel?

831
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:23,030
Would they feel comfortable
sitting down here right next to

832
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:24,390
me?
Because I do care about them.

833
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:30,200
If John Taylor, we're alive and
here with us and and let's say

834
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,080
representative of a just man
made holy in the spirit and and

835
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,320
here, would he feel comfortable
here or excluded and why?

836
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,840
And so as you start that process
you start believing certain

837
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,280
things and your behaviours
change and it it becomes

838
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,560
noticeable.
Those are mainstream

839
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,320
fundamentalist promptings and
there are ways and explanations.

840
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,280
There are people who have been
through it that can help explain

841
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,680
it, everything from interviews
to how to treat people.

842
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,520
What do you do when you get
somebody who wants to bash

843
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,600
those, quote, UN quote, really
weird, you know, people with all

844
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,440
the stigmas having to do with
all those terrible things that

845
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,000
happen.
You know, these these

846
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,920
polygamists, this, that, and the
other giving us a black eye.

847
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,040
When you're dealing with those
conversations in the church and

848
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,760
it's making your your you
starting your your bloods

849
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,240
boiling, how do you deal with
that kind of stuff?

850
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:27,260
And ultimately, where is the
safe landing?

851
00:49:27,860 --> 00:49:30,220
There's going to be people.
I I believe this.

852
00:49:30,220 --> 00:49:32,620
It's not me prophesying, but
there's going to be people

853
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:36,180
calling you on a phone or at
least in an e-mail saying, OK,

854
00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:40,140
Dave, been a faithful listener
for three years, second

855
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:43,300
counselor in the Bishop, Rick.
And I'm ready to dive in and

856
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:45,460
you're going to be like, man,
I'm an engineer.

857
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,180
I'm a lot of things, but I'm not
a therapist.

858
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:51,660
Or are you going to step in and
say, I can help you, bro, This

859
00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:54,410
is the next step.
And I think that that's what's

860
00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:56,850
going to happen.
People like yourself, maybe even

861
00:49:56,850 --> 00:49:59,490
ourselves.
But if we can bring the

862
00:49:59,490 --> 00:50:03,530
community together, I think that
it can help that process.

863
00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:06,730
Can I answer a a question that
you didn't really ask but you

864
00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:10,010
alluded to as far as outcomes
with this magazine?

865
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:13,010
Yeah, let me say one thing.
I've already had those those

866
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:15,410
emails.
I've already had some of those

867
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:19,250
phone calls.
It's it's well on the way.

868
00:50:19,770 --> 00:50:22,770
The other thing is I'm a land
surveyor and non engineer.

869
00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:24,450
Let's get that out of the way,
OK?

870
00:50:24,770 --> 00:50:26,570
All right.
Engineers are horrible.

871
00:50:26,650 --> 00:50:29,730
The the you know they they do
crap and then they're like us.

872
00:50:29,730 --> 00:50:31,050
Engineer.
I misunderstood.

873
00:50:31,050 --> 00:50:32,530
Sorry, sorry.
I'm.

874
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:34,610
Yeah.
So let's not ever go there

875
00:50:34,610 --> 00:50:36,170
again.
So other than that, I think

876
00:50:36,170 --> 00:50:37,010
you're a great guy.
Yeah.

877
00:50:38,130 --> 00:50:40,050
OK.
I won't ever do that again.

878
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:40,490
Nope.
Land.

879
00:50:40,570 --> 00:50:42,770
Surveyor I just got it.
I've got George Washington.

880
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:44,800
Yeah, that's.
Yeah, that's.

881
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,280
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we call Mount Rushmore the

882
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,640
mountain with three surveyors
and the other guy on it.

883
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:54,160
So, but anyway, go ahead,
continue on.

884
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,240
What?
What were you gonna say in a

885
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:59,040
question that I alluded to so so
that you understand me.

886
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,200
I believe religion's a very
practical thing.

887
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,520
I love the Doctrines, and the
Doctrines get as close to

888
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,040
divinity.
But in one or two years, what

889
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,160
are my outcomes?
I would love for us to have

890
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,350
fundamentalist rodeos.
I would love for us to have

891
00:51:12,350 --> 00:51:16,190
barbecues and get togethers The
size of the Kingston's there.

892
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:19,430
On the 24th of July I went to
one where there were 5000

893
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:24,590
people, 5000 people walking
around, some related, some you

894
00:51:24,590 --> 00:51:28,790
know there's distance in it.
Not an argument, no anger, no

895
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:30,950
showing.
It was it was the most peaceful,

896
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:34,030
serene thing.
So what you read and what you

897
00:51:34,030 --> 00:51:38,350
understand aren't always topics
of reality, but what if we could

898
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:42,140
blend that in a non aggressive
non grazing.

899
00:51:42,140 --> 00:51:45,340
When I say grazing some of the
churches think that you're

900
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:48,140
coming to graze their their
ladies and things like that.

901
00:51:48,580 --> 00:51:51,100
I'm saying what if we could
bring us together for these

902
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:56,500
mutual activities either rodeos,
fairs or 24th of July meetings

903
00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:00,020
and have a level of comfort
Because I think in the times

904
00:52:00,020 --> 00:52:03,020
coming I think that we're going
to need to comfort one of one

905
00:52:03,020 --> 00:52:04,220
another.
We're going to need to know one

906
00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:06,100
another.
It's going to be more than just,

907
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:09,960
hey, I met you at a really heady
conference where we discussed

908
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,000
the 1886 revelation that we all
believe in.

909
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,720
You know, it's gonna have to be
more than it's gonna have to be.

910
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,520
Dave broke.
You know, somebody just fired me

911
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,680
for being a being a polygamist.
It's like, you're kidding me.

912
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,880
Really.
I know an attorney or you know

913
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,560
what?
Those kind of practical things,

914
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:27,840
you know, because we're past
that.

915
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,040
We're really past all that now.
Well, stay tuned, because I'm

916
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,480
about to do an episode that
covers just that.

917
00:52:38,820 --> 00:52:44,420
What what do you at the end of
this when your finished product?

918
00:52:44,420 --> 00:52:46,260
What is your finished product
look like?

919
00:52:47,140 --> 00:52:49,820
Go ahead, Greg.
Oh, so are you talking about the

920
00:52:49,820 --> 00:52:52,980
finished project product in
terms of the online and the

921
00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:54,780
printing?
Yeah.

922
00:52:54,780 --> 00:52:57,780
When, when, when you get it off
and running, what, what, how?

923
00:52:58,620 --> 00:53:00,780
I mean, do you have a number in
mind about how many

924
00:53:00,780 --> 00:53:02,460
subscriptions you're going to
have?

925
00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:05,380
Yeah.
So if it's if it's a as we start

926
00:53:05,380 --> 00:53:07,500
the quarterly, I actually did
some pricing, I did add a

927
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:09,900
little.
Budget sheet spreadsheet the

928
00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:13,940
other day and and we're looking,
you know, I know there's 10,015

929
00:53:13,940 --> 00:53:17,780
thousand churchgoers and and
independents across the

930
00:53:17,780 --> 00:53:21,740
mountain, West Canada and Mexico
if not more that aren't on the

931
00:53:21,740 --> 00:53:24,060
radar.
But I'm going to start out,

932
00:53:24,060 --> 00:53:28,020
we're going to start out very
conservative, probably about 200

933
00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:29,980
physical print issues per
quarter.

934
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:35,580
But that's OK because a print
issue that goes out to a family

935
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:40,250
of, say. 20 is going to stay on
their their living room table

936
00:53:40,330 --> 00:53:43,450
and it's going to be a reference
piece and it's going to be

937
00:53:43,450 --> 00:53:46,290
something that they can hold on
to and put in their bookshelf

938
00:53:46,690 --> 00:53:51,050
and hold on to for generations.
And that's really what I want,

939
00:53:51,050 --> 00:53:53,050
that's I think that's what Chad
wants to do, is something that's

940
00:53:53,050 --> 00:53:56,930
physical because when the time
comes, and I know it will come,

941
00:53:57,290 --> 00:54:01,610
that electromagnetic pulses are
going off in the sky or other

942
00:54:01,610 --> 00:54:03,610
places and we don't have
Internet.

943
00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:06,620
You're gonna have that physical
copy of something to look at.

944
00:54:06,780 --> 00:54:08,540
It's gonna be sitting right
there, maybe next to your

945
00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:11,260
scriptures, or it'll be
somewhere close to your journal

946
00:54:11,260 --> 00:54:13,340
of Discourses so you can reach
right out and grab it.

947
00:54:14,340 --> 00:54:18,620
So it'll be, it'll be a, it'll
be a print magazine, 24 pages

948
00:54:18,620 --> 00:54:22,220
generally to start with, which
is entirely affordable for Chad

949
00:54:22,220 --> 00:54:26,660
and I to eat the production cost
easily with the money that we

950
00:54:26,660 --> 00:54:31,020
make without having advertised.
Ultimately, we want to keep the

951
00:54:31,020 --> 00:54:36,220
subscription price low and
that's not decided yet, but also

952
00:54:36,940 --> 00:54:38,980
not necessarily have to rely on
advertising.

953
00:54:38,980 --> 00:54:40,140
We don't want to make money in
this.

954
00:54:40,140 --> 00:54:42,140
We don't.
We're not doing this as a as a

955
00:54:42,660 --> 00:54:45,660
way of making a profit.
We want this just to go out.

956
00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:50,180
This is, this is a work for us
and if there's more money that

957
00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:53,100
comes in, we pile that back into
the finished product.

958
00:54:53,580 --> 00:54:56,940
But the online will represent a
digital copy.

959
00:54:57,260 --> 00:55:01,500
Of the the print version and
essentially I would take a model

960
00:55:01,500 --> 00:55:05,580
that comes from my experience in
the news business, is that the

961
00:55:05,580 --> 00:55:09,340
print object goes out first in
the mail and then the next day

962
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:12,060
or two it gets posted online.
So that folks who have a

963
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:14,820
subscription, they have a chance
to get it first.

964
00:55:15,140 --> 00:55:17,660
And then for everybody else in
the world who's not paying for

965
00:55:17,660 --> 00:55:21,540
it, or isn't a part of it or
doesn't want it, they can go

966
00:55:21,540 --> 00:55:23,820
check it out.
Gotcha.

967
00:55:24,180 --> 00:55:27,820
And will all the like.
As you grow and there's more

968
00:55:28,180 --> 00:55:31,660
issues that are done, will will
the old ones be archived and

969
00:55:31,660 --> 00:55:33,660
stuff?
Oh, absolutely.

970
00:55:34,180 --> 00:55:37,780
The the blog actually functions
as an automatic archive system.

971
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:41,660
So everything that we ever do or
is ever submitted to us that's

972
00:55:41,660 --> 00:55:45,380
put on the blog as it exists now
will always exist.

973
00:55:45,500 --> 00:55:49,260
And then we're actually in the
midst of getting a a domain name

974
00:55:50,060 --> 00:55:53,380
and then once that domain is
created in conjunction with the

975
00:55:53,380 --> 00:55:56,980
magazine, all of these older.
Articles that either Chad and I

976
00:55:56,980 --> 00:55:59,860
have written or that have been
submitted during the existence

977
00:55:59,860 --> 00:56:04,900
of the blog, we'll move over to
the website and some may go.

978
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:07,420
Actually, I can tell you all of
them at this point will go into

979
00:56:07,420 --> 00:56:12,700
the print version somewhere.
It may not be the first issue,

980
00:56:12,700 --> 00:56:15,780
they might be spread across four
issues, but everything that's

981
00:56:15,780 --> 00:56:18,700
ever submitted will make it to
the print and the online.

982
00:56:19,460 --> 00:56:23,580
Gotcha, gotcha.
And let let me ask this

983
00:56:23,620 --> 00:56:25,760
question.
As as you've looked at the

984
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,720
breadth of what it is you want
to do, what kind of challenges

985
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,880
do you expect to face, or what
challenges have you experienced

986
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,080
so far in in getting this bad
boy up and running?

987
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:41,480
I'll take that one Chad as well.
So I I, I have a very long term

988
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,160
depth of experience with
fundamentalist groups in Utah.

989
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,680
I've I've worked in journalism
the majority of my career, in

990
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,290
Alaska and in Utah.
And during my time in Utah, I

991
00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:55,170
lived in in Vernal and I lived
in Moab and I lived in Manti,

992
00:56:55,650 --> 00:57:00,570
and Manti was an experience.
In Manti I got to know three or

993
00:57:00,570 --> 00:57:05,130
four different groups and a few
independents and I know the

994
00:57:05,130 --> 00:57:08,890
culture.
My first job ever as ATV

995
00:57:08,890 --> 00:57:14,530
reporter was covering Short
Creek Post Warren Jeffs arrest.

996
00:57:15,180 --> 00:57:17,780
So I got to know the community
of Short Creek very well.

997
00:57:17,820 --> 00:57:21,780
And I know that there is a
certain level of reticence on

998
00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:26,980
the part of some fundamentalists
to come out of a shadow and to

999
00:57:27,260 --> 00:57:30,940
feel like they can speak freely,
if not for doctrinal issues.

1000
00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:33,540
Because of course you've got
your your priesthood line of

1001
00:57:33,540 --> 00:57:35,380
authority.
Who has the authority to speak?

1002
00:57:35,380 --> 00:57:40,300
But also just because of a
distrust of the media, whether

1003
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:43,330
it be.
Faith affirming or mainstream,

1004
00:57:43,530 --> 00:57:47,570
there's just a distrust.
So that's why I think the blog

1005
00:57:47,570 --> 00:57:51,650
and getting the word out with
you is so important, is to to

1006
00:57:51,650 --> 00:57:54,690
show people and tell people this
is not a threat.

1007
00:57:54,970 --> 00:57:58,330
But we are believers and we are
like you.

1008
00:57:59,210 --> 00:58:00,850
We just want to hear what you
have to say.

1009
00:58:00,850 --> 00:58:04,450
We want to create that dialogue.
And so hopefully by doing that

1010
00:58:04,450 --> 00:58:09,640
it will overcome some of that.
Some of that reticence of people

1011
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,240
to talk and once, once one or
two or three people that are

1012
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,960
that are that have authority,
that speak with authority that

1013
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,800
speak in the spirit contribute
to this even somebody like you,

1014
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,280
anybody that wants to
contribute, people will see that

1015
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,320
and they'll know it's OK to to
talk to us and that we're not

1016
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,480
going to change your message.
We're not going to edit your

1017
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,040
message.
We're going to let you say what

1018
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,100
you want to say that, I think.
Is is my ultimate.

1019
00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:38,620
That's my dream.
That's my hope.

1020
00:58:40,460 --> 00:58:42,180
If I could jump in, Dave.
Yeah.

1021
00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:45,940
So let's say we've got two
options here.

1022
00:58:45,940 --> 00:58:48,860
Let's let's take a +1.
Let's say this thing takes off.

1023
00:58:49,540 --> 00:58:53,220
If it takes off.
I've spoken to to Greg about

1024
00:58:53,540 --> 00:58:59,460
approaching some of the groups
and and leaders or varied people

1025
00:58:59,460 --> 00:59:03,100
within the independent movement
for purposes of counsel, for

1026
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:06,220
purposes of integration, for
purposes of understanding and

1027
00:59:06,220 --> 00:59:11,820
also as as kind of guide saying
hey this is an important thing

1028
00:59:11,820 --> 00:59:13,380
to us.
We have this little get

1029
00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:15,060
together.
We'd like to get this out, this

1030
00:59:15,060 --> 00:59:16,860
message or this kind of thing
out.

1031
00:59:17,420 --> 00:59:22,220
But as it grows I would like to
make this a not-for-profit and

1032
00:59:22,220 --> 00:59:26,700
bring in, you know it would be a
simple directorship.

1033
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:29,940
It wouldn't be a paid position
or anything really heady or or

1034
00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:34,260
hard to do, but bring in those
around the fundamentalist or

1035
00:59:34,260 --> 00:59:41,020
covenant Mormon movement to help
with this and in the hopes of

1036
00:59:41,020 --> 00:59:42,580
putting hands and hearts
together.

1037
00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:45,220
Nobody that would have, you
know, would be strained or

1038
00:59:45,220 --> 00:59:48,700
strange to other people but
would be able to look across and

1039
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:53,700
say, yes, I do think that we
should have a community wide, a

1040
00:59:53,740 --> 01:00:00,660
movement or covenant, Mormon
wide, fundamentalist wide 1886.

1041
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:06,960
Jubilee where we meet on
September 26th and discuss this

1042
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,200
over three days at this Civic
Center or this place here or out

1043
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,760
in a park or something or the
24th.

1044
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,440
Those types of things where we
can really, really get potluck.

1045
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,560
Potluck excuse me, potluck
style.

1046
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,920
You know just that type of
understanding where we can just

1047
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,740
set we can hold our keys as we
like them but we don't have to

1048
01:00:29,740 --> 01:00:31,140
shake them in front of each
other.

1049
01:00:31,460 --> 01:00:34,700
We don't have to we don't have
to discourse or or you know

1050
01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:39,460
lecture each other on on one man
you know or council driven and

1051
01:00:39,460 --> 01:00:42,300
where we can just kind of ease
into this and say hey I know

1052
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:45,500
what you believe you know what I
believe we know where the the

1053
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:50,140
soft tender parts are but let's
just be let's be there for each

1054
01:00:50,140 --> 01:00:54,420
other when we need each other.
That's the hope in in 234510

1055
01:00:54,420 --> 01:00:58,370
years.
And you know, I would ideally I

1056
01:00:58,370 --> 01:01:01,050
would like to see the real pros
get involved, the ones that have

1057
01:01:01,050 --> 01:01:05,330
been involved for for decades or
for a long time since birth and

1058
01:01:05,330 --> 01:01:09,290
really start to to show the
world, especially mainstream

1059
01:01:09,290 --> 01:01:12,570
fundamentalists, those that are
burgeoning say hey this is who

1060
01:01:12,570 --> 01:01:14,610
we are, this is what we always
were.

1061
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:16,330
There's no difference between
us, brother.

1062
01:01:16,330 --> 01:01:19,770
We're like a dysfunctional
family that really needs to get

1063
01:01:19,770 --> 01:01:23,770
together for a for a family
barbecue and just sit down and

1064
01:01:23,770 --> 01:01:27,480
chat.
And I'll, I'll second that and

1065
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,640
I'll also add that I would love,
let's talk about Canada.

1066
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,720
I'd love to be able to, if we
were in a nonprofit mode to be

1067
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,520
able to sponsor AJ1 visa for
somebody to come down from

1068
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,920
British Columbia to intern maybe
for a summer, one of the youth

1069
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,640
or a teen or somebody in their
20s who had an interest in

1070
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,200
journalism or in writing or
photography, I'd love that.

1071
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,080
And as a nonprofit, you can do
those kind of things in the

1072
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,280
United States.
So I'm gonna ask a couple

1073
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,560
questions now that that are near
and dear in my heart that that

1074
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,680
I've tried to incorporate into
the podcast.

1075
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,960
And this first question comes
from a position of having been

1076
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:13,400
there much like the both of you
have with folks that are are

1077
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,360
going to be pulling that
fundamentalist trigger so to

1078
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,160
speak and and jumping in.
Have you thought about resources

1079
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,800
within the magazine to help them
make that transition?

1080
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:27,300
Right, I mean.
Historical stuff or stuff like,

1081
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:29,820
OK, this is what you can expect
to encounter.

1082
01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:31,820
After.
There's some things to watch out

1083
01:02:31,820 --> 01:02:34,100
for, those sorts of things.
Absolutely.

1084
01:02:35,340 --> 01:02:38,100
So I I'm going to kind of let a
cat out of a bag and then I'll,

1085
01:02:38,100 --> 01:02:40,380
I'll, I'll ask Chad if he wants
to chime in on because I'm sure

1086
01:02:40,380 --> 01:02:43,500
he does on this.
The very first story, the very

1087
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:48,100
first issue, very first story
that I want to publish is a

1088
01:02:48,100 --> 01:02:51,180
story, a faith affirming story
on the life of Lauren Wooley.

1089
01:02:51,690 --> 01:02:57,050
I want that to be the very first
issues, very top story within

1090
01:02:58,410 --> 01:03:01,050
within the actual magazine or
online itself.

1091
01:03:02,010 --> 01:03:07,330
I we foresee a chat function or
a a place where people can can

1092
01:03:07,330 --> 01:03:12,970
dialogue with one another.
We also would we would be morons

1093
01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:17,250
not to include links to the
Journal of Discourses.

1094
01:03:17,730 --> 01:03:20,850
We would include links to all of
Austin Crouch Books.

1095
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:24,430
So we would want to have an
online research library as a

1096
01:03:24,430 --> 01:03:30,150
part of the website and you
know, maybe some things in in a

1097
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:32,750
block ad inside the print
edition.

1098
01:03:32,750 --> 01:03:35,070
But of course these things exist
on the web.

1099
01:03:35,550 --> 01:03:38,590
So having a link on the website
where folks can do their own

1100
01:03:38,590 --> 01:03:41,790
research without our
interpretation, without our

1101
01:03:41,790 --> 01:03:43,750
input.
If folks want to go check out

1102
01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:47,590
Brigham Young's sermons, by all
means we'll show you where to do

1103
01:03:47,590 --> 01:03:49,830
it.
If you want to go, read Adam

1104
01:03:49,830 --> 01:03:52,380
Michael.
By all means, go check it out.

1105
01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:55,260
We'll give you a link, we'll
show you where you can buy these

1106
01:03:55,260 --> 01:03:58,260
things.
So it's a part of creating

1107
01:03:58,260 --> 01:03:59,940
community.
So the answer, The short answer

1108
01:03:59,940 --> 01:04:02,980
is yes.
Gotcha, gotcha.

1109
01:04:02,980 --> 01:04:05,060
I can.
I can answer too if you'd like.

1110
01:04:05,300 --> 01:04:10,180
Yeah, go ahead.
So you asked specifically for

1111
01:04:10,180 --> 01:04:13,820
resources or support for those
that are transitioning over to

1112
01:04:14,540 --> 01:04:18,430
to fundamentalism, to covenant
Mormonism, Yeah.

1113
01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:21,150
Be careful with the word
transition these days, OK?

1114
01:04:21,190 --> 01:04:22,430
Yeah.
I forgot we're living in a

1115
01:04:22,430 --> 01:04:26,950
modern sorry, I was being
tactically, I'll say, I'll say.

1116
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:30,190
How about I I I don't want to be
mean, 'cause I I do.

1117
01:04:30,190 --> 01:04:32,830
I do appreciate the the
mainstream church for all the

1118
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:36,830
the missionary work it's done.
But we'll just say mature into,

1119
01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:39,030
There you go.
That'll work.

1120
01:04:39,430 --> 01:04:40,110
That.
That'll work.

1121
01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:40,910
That's different.
Yeah.

1122
01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:43,710
Mature sorry about Yeah we'll
we'll we'll avoid transitioning.

1123
01:04:44,070 --> 01:04:48,520
Maturing into fundamentalist or
covenant Mormonism For those

1124
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,000
that do it.
There are heartaches involved.

1125
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,960
You know these things.
You know friendships.

1126
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,520
You know, you know looking at a
Bishop who used to say, hey I

1127
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:56,840
just can't wait to play
volleyball.

1128
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,000
Looking at you now like dude,
stay away from my kids or my

1129
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,360
daughter.
You know, like and it's like

1130
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,920
look all of that stigma and
nonsense that doesn't really

1131
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,080
even exist.
So yes we do want to help out

1132
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,280
there.
If things really, really take

1133
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,170
off, let's say shoot the moon
that your 10,000 listeners

1134
01:05:14,370 --> 01:05:17,410
instantly have to have the
magazine just to know what's

1135
01:05:17,410 --> 01:05:21,290
going on, we would open that up
to an online forum.

1136
01:05:21,450 --> 01:05:25,170
There would be a social media
clients in there.

1137
01:05:25,610 --> 01:05:29,210
And I have talked to Greg and
Greg and I have talked about

1138
01:05:29,210 --> 01:05:31,370
this.
We would want to segregate it

1139
01:05:31,370 --> 01:05:34,490
and give up privacy controls for
each group so that they feel

1140
01:05:34,490 --> 01:05:37,210
comfortable there, so that
they'd be able to talk to each

1141
01:05:37,210 --> 01:05:39,490
other.
So these are some of the ideas

1142
01:05:39,490 --> 01:05:42,830
that can go down as if it gets
really successful.

1143
01:05:43,190 --> 01:05:46,590
But we're pretty humble in our
in our aspirations what we

1144
01:05:46,590 --> 01:05:49,310
really see.
We see a living room coffee

1145
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:54,390
presentation piece for for those
Sunday evening on where you can

1146
01:05:54,390 --> 01:06:00,950
talk about Born Woolley or or
1886 Revelation or some of the

1147
01:06:00,950 --> 01:06:04,790
other writings you know, we see
online so that you can go

1148
01:06:04,790 --> 01:06:07,910
through and and check it out and
and those types of things.

1149
01:06:08,350 --> 01:06:12,270
Most of my articles will be
helping those mainstream

1150
01:06:12,270 --> 01:06:16,070
fundamentalist, those with those
leanings get through those first

1151
01:06:16,510 --> 01:06:19,230
turbulent few months.
And I think a person like you

1152
01:06:19,230 --> 01:06:22,350
would be ideal in helping that
out because you go through

1153
01:06:22,350 --> 01:06:24,630
emotions.
I mean there are some people

1154
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:26,950
that just can't keep it in.
They want to go in and they want

1155
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:29,150
to have it out with the state
president yesterday.

1156
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:31,510
They they they need to do it.
You know, it's like I got to

1157
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:35,310
schedule it up and I'm going to
give him, you know, what for and

1158
01:06:35,310 --> 01:06:38,320
you got to help those people
too, You know, it's it's it's

1159
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,080
actually it's a handout for
those that are ready to move up.

1160
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,080
Gotcha, gotcha.
Real quick.

1161
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,080
Let me ask you this and this
one's a tougher question and

1162
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,720
it's one that that I definitely
had a hard line on and I still

1163
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:58,800
do.
And that is as we know, as

1164
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,280
exhibited by Warren Jeffs, there
is a darker side to

1165
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,460
fundamentalism, or there can be.
Now for 99.9% of us, that's not

1166
01:07:08,460 --> 01:07:15,380
the case, but you have to feel
some responsibility with not

1167
01:07:15,380 --> 01:07:19,780
giving too much platform to
that, right?

1168
01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:23,260
I mean, when you start talking
about underage brides, when you

1169
01:07:23,260 --> 01:07:27,300
start talking about abuse, have
you guys thought much on that?

1170
01:07:28,060 --> 01:07:30,980
I have thought, I have thought
extensively on it.

1171
01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:34,700
I've read extensively on it, I I
can tell you.

1172
01:07:35,380 --> 01:07:38,460
That's probably the first step
that I made, of course, because

1173
01:07:38,460 --> 01:07:42,100
I worked at Channel 3 down in
Saint George and had to go over

1174
01:07:42,100 --> 01:07:46,380
to Short Creek so many times, I
was exposed to it post Warren.

1175
01:07:46,780 --> 01:07:48,820
And that was really the
beginning for me.

1176
01:07:48,820 --> 01:07:52,660
And so I dug into everything
that I could ever find out about

1177
01:07:52,660 --> 01:07:58,420
the times and troubles of Warren
Jeffs and the Lebaron and the

1178
01:07:58,420 --> 01:08:02,580
things that happened in the
1970s and the murder of Ruling

1179
01:08:02,580 --> 01:08:04,300
Allred.
These things are.

1180
01:08:04,740 --> 01:08:08,300
A part of our history.
They should not be a part of our

1181
01:08:08,300 --> 01:08:14,820
presence, as I believe ever.
And so I I, I would look at it

1182
01:08:15,060 --> 01:08:19,100
as These are the things that can
be addressed.

1183
01:08:19,859 --> 01:08:22,700
They're not things that we
should ever glorify.

1184
01:08:23,340 --> 01:08:26,899
We should never, ever glorify
the Blood Atonement as practiced

1185
01:08:26,899 --> 01:08:29,220
by the Lebaron clan in those
days.

1186
01:08:30,060 --> 01:08:33,300
We should never, ever
countenance the underage

1187
01:08:33,300 --> 01:08:36,220
marriage.
I I'm, I'm just personally, I'm

1188
01:08:36,220 --> 01:08:40,180
a firm believer that any
marriage contracted civilly or

1189
01:08:40,180 --> 01:08:44,020
celestially should be with a
person of age in their legal

1190
01:08:44,140 --> 01:08:46,340
state.
That's that's a non negotiable

1191
01:08:46,340 --> 01:08:49,819
for me.
And so, you know, personally, I

1192
01:08:49,819 --> 01:08:53,660
wouldn't give much countenance
to the darker side unless it can

1193
01:08:53,660 --> 01:08:57,220
teach a lesson.
If I could jump in.

1194
01:08:57,540 --> 01:08:59,460
If I could jump in too.
I want to.

1195
01:08:59,500 --> 01:09:01,100
I want to parrot what he's
saying.

1196
01:09:02,410 --> 01:09:08,410
The thing that we're really
hoping here those those things

1197
01:09:08,410 --> 01:09:14,290
do exist and I have articles
prepared writings prepared on

1198
01:09:14,290 --> 01:09:18,130
certain when you when you come
to know people that are very

1199
01:09:18,130 --> 01:09:22,810
experienced in fundamentalist
Mormon type of behaviors and

1200
01:09:22,810 --> 01:09:28,689
lifestyles that there's like a
it's like a diplomatic code book

1201
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:32,010
they give diplomatic.
They give diplomats certain like

1202
01:09:32,010 --> 01:09:34,010
books to read when you go to a
certain country.

1203
01:09:34,010 --> 01:09:38,130
But mainstream fundamentalists
when they come into certain

1204
01:09:38,130 --> 01:09:40,930
areas there are certain things
that are that are no Nos or

1205
01:09:40,930 --> 01:09:43,250
ghosts.
They're just like what if I come

1206
01:09:43,250 --> 01:09:47,010
to your house say and I I asked
you immediately in front of the

1207
01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:50,170
ears of your your wonderful
family how many wives do you

1208
01:09:50,170 --> 01:09:53,130
have that's Ghosh.
I mean if you're if you're

1209
01:09:53,130 --> 01:09:55,890
talking and your friends that
it's it's light hearted stuff

1210
01:09:56,430 --> 01:09:58,550
it's not a these are questions
we don't.

1211
01:09:58,630 --> 01:10:01,710
You know if you're going to
somebody's house and and you're

1212
01:10:01,710 --> 01:10:04,870
looking at their daughters and
saying hey she's 17 but when

1213
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:06,910
she's 19 boy I'm going to I'm
going to try.

1214
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:09,510
This is not the way that we do
these things.

1215
01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:12,430
It's not done.
And the mainstream

1216
01:10:12,430 --> 01:10:16,030
fundamentalists need to
understand how how these

1217
01:10:16,030 --> 01:10:18,910
processes really work because
they're going to stumble through

1218
01:10:18,910 --> 01:10:22,310
it on the first few go rounds
when they when they first meet,

1219
01:10:22,310 --> 01:10:25,710
it's going to be, it's going to
be a stumble, A stumbling period

1220
01:10:25,710 --> 01:10:29,290
for them because they have a lot
of stigmatization based on news

1221
01:10:29,290 --> 01:10:32,250
articles.
And like you said there are,

1222
01:10:32,810 --> 01:10:37,810
there are bona fide examples of
bad behaviour you know underage

1223
01:10:37,810 --> 01:10:44,410
brides, those types of things
that that that cause trepidation

1224
01:10:44,410 --> 01:10:47,530
and fear for those in the
mainstream movement.

1225
01:10:47,530 --> 01:10:51,490
They just they see you and they
say OK is is my 16 year old safe

1226
01:10:51,490 --> 01:10:55,870
And you say you you you need to,
you need to pickle in

1227
01:10:55,870 --> 01:10:59,430
fundamentalism before your
daughter, even at the age of 25

1228
01:10:59,430 --> 01:11:03,350
or 30 would be a real palatable
interest to us because we're

1229
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:07,310
building a long term eternal
perspective here.

1230
01:11:07,510 --> 01:11:10,190
But they don't have that.
They think that they have

1231
01:11:10,190 --> 01:11:11,790
thoughts that are a little bit
juvenile.

1232
01:11:11,790 --> 01:11:15,630
So yeah, we we do need to help
the mainstream come in and have

1233
01:11:15,630 --> 01:11:18,630
those.
And we do need to to ensure that

1234
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,080
once in a while when the when
the Wildcats flow by flow by.

1235
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,960
Because as a fundamentalist
periodical, you know we're going

1236
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,240
to have submissions that are
going to skirt that issue and

1237
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:32,680
we're going to have to be able
to say hey look 18 consent is a

1238
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,040
bright line for us or you know
he said the the law of each

1239
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,440
state which is actually very
legalistic.

1240
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:43,080
I've taken a a stance myself at
18 consent, which is which is

1241
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,560
the Cadillac gold standard, but
that.

1242
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,750
Again, David, like you know,
just because an 18 year old is

1243
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:53,150
standing in front of you doesn't
mean she's spiritually, morally

1244
01:11:53,150 --> 01:11:58,870
or even intellectually prepared
for plural sisterhood in a in a

1245
01:11:58,870 --> 01:12:03,510
marital situation that it just
the the age doesn't make them

1246
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:05,590
ready.
What makes them ready is their

1247
01:12:05,590 --> 01:12:08,230
readiness and their willingness
to to love their Heavenly Father

1248
01:12:08,230 --> 01:12:09,710
and want to become like Heavenly
Mother.

1249
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:12,470
And so, yeah, we have to
destigmatize it.

1250
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:15,350
We have to educate mainstream
fundamentalists or those that

1251
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:19,540
are interested in coming in and
in a long term, as much as I

1252
01:12:19,540 --> 01:12:21,820
almost hate to say this, and it
probably make you shudder

1253
01:12:22,300 --> 01:12:27,820
working at some point or another
to help law enforcement to fully

1254
01:12:27,820 --> 01:12:32,940
understand this is a religion,
this isn't, this isn't quackery.

1255
01:12:33,180 --> 01:12:37,180
This has been around a lot
longer than modern police, law

1256
01:12:37,180 --> 01:12:40,620
enforcement and you know, back
when when you had sheriff's or

1257
01:12:40,620 --> 01:12:43,180
even posses, we were doing this
kind of stuff.

1258
01:12:43,180 --> 01:12:47,650
This is a long term religious
lifestyle and it's here to stay.

1259
01:12:48,090 --> 01:12:50,610
And so, you know, working with
law enforcement as well because

1260
01:12:50,610 --> 01:12:55,450
the last thing we want is a
Yahoo using our periodical or

1261
01:12:55,450 --> 01:12:59,010
getting involved in the covenant
Mormon movement, you know,

1262
01:12:59,010 --> 01:13:01,650
wanting to abuse in those kind
of capacities.

1263
01:13:03,050 --> 01:13:05,410
Right, right.
I yeah.

1264
01:13:05,450 --> 01:13:08,850
It it it's a fine line.
Go ahead.

1265
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:15,270
Well, yeah, just just to
reiterate what what Chad said,

1266
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:22,350
you know, absolutely, 18 is the
18 years of age as an adult with

1267
01:13:22,350 --> 01:13:28,030
agency and with prayer.
And I'm a firm believer that any

1268
01:13:28,030 --> 01:13:32,830
young man, young one or a 50
year old guy like me, that if I

1269
01:13:32,830 --> 01:13:37,550
was in a church, if I wanted to
find a wife, that's a matter of

1270
01:13:37,550 --> 01:13:42,850
prayer between you.
God, your priesthood leadership,

1271
01:13:42,930 --> 01:13:45,170
if you're in a church, that
would be I would go to my

1272
01:13:45,170 --> 01:13:48,410
prophet and I would say I think
I'm ready.

1273
01:13:48,650 --> 01:13:50,330
What do you think?
Can we pray on this?

1274
01:13:50,330 --> 01:13:53,890
And through the power of prayer
and through the power of the

1275
01:13:53,890 --> 01:13:55,770
priesthood, those answers will
come.

1276
01:13:57,250 --> 01:13:59,650
That's just what I believe and
it's it's not something Willy

1277
01:13:59,650 --> 01:14:03,850
nilly that should be done in in
this beautiful, beautiful

1278
01:14:03,850 --> 01:14:06,850
religion that we have.
No, I I agree.

1279
01:14:06,850 --> 01:14:10,940
I agree wholeheartedly.
And there's two things, right?

1280
01:14:10,940 --> 01:14:14,100
One is, it sounds like you guys
have thought this through, which

1281
01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:17,860
is good.
But the other thing is and and

1282
01:14:17,860 --> 01:14:22,180
Chad you you brought you, you
mentioned this, is that I think

1283
01:14:22,180 --> 01:14:24,780
us as fundamentalists are going
to have to be a little bit

1284
01:14:24,780 --> 01:14:27,620
patient with some of those folks
coming out of the LDS Church,

1285
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:30,580
'cause they won't know the
etiquette, right, They won't

1286
01:14:30,580 --> 01:14:34,500
understand how things work.
And so there might be questions

1287
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:39,360
that we would find.
Maybe offensive or intrusive

1288
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,960
that that we're we're gonna have
to find ways without alienating

1289
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,880
people of saying OK look here's
the deal we don't do that right,

1290
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:52,600
but it's it's gonna have to be a
lot of patience on our part and

1291
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,920
and showing some Christ like
love there to help these folks

1292
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,960
along 'cause they won't know
right.

1293
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:03,440
I, I, I, I remember having some
of those same questions and and

1294
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:05,880
there's got to be a place where,
where?

1295
01:15:06,370 --> 01:15:09,170
Folks can get kind of educated
on that and then ask the

1296
01:15:09,170 --> 01:15:11,690
questions that they shouldn't
ask in somebody's house.

1297
01:15:12,010 --> 01:15:15,130
Right.
Like how many wives do you have?

1298
01:15:15,130 --> 01:15:20,330
Sort of a thing, right.
But yeah but and and I think

1299
01:15:20,330 --> 01:15:23,530
some of this too could could be
remedied also by us as

1300
01:15:23,530 --> 01:15:25,930
fundamentalists being a little
more open too, right.

1301
01:15:26,610 --> 01:15:32,650
I have a good friend who's who's
mainstream LDS and and he asked

1302
01:15:32,650 --> 01:15:34,730
me once, he said like well how
many wives do you have?

1303
01:15:34,730 --> 01:15:37,820
And I was like 8.
And he just kind of went silent

1304
01:15:37,820 --> 01:15:39,020
and I was like, I'm just
screwing with you.

1305
01:15:39,020 --> 01:15:42,340
I only got 2.
But we have to, we have to be

1306
01:15:42,340 --> 01:15:47,020
able to to to broach this with
with a little bit of of love and

1307
01:15:47,020 --> 01:15:50,140
understanding from our end too.
Because they won't know the

1308
01:15:50,140 --> 01:15:53,460
etiquette, right?
I think we take for granted

1309
01:15:53,460 --> 01:15:55,180
sometimes.
Oh, it's just common knowledge

1310
01:15:55,180 --> 01:15:58,660
when it's only common to us,
right?

1311
01:15:59,340 --> 01:16:00,060
The one.
The one.

1312
01:16:00,180 --> 01:16:02,050
Thing.
Oh, sorry.

1313
01:16:03,090 --> 01:16:05,930
I want to add one thing to your
your your statement of eight

1314
01:16:05,930 --> 01:16:08,090
wives.
I think Winston Blackmore said

1315
01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:11,530
it best.
He was interviewed by CBC for

1316
01:16:11,530 --> 01:16:17,370
their weekly documentary show,
and the host asked him directly

1317
01:16:17,370 --> 01:16:19,730
to his face.
So how many wives do you have?

1318
01:16:20,250 --> 01:16:23,650
And it struck my heart and it
stays with me every day.

1319
01:16:23,730 --> 01:16:27,130
He's like, I have enough that I
don't have to worry about

1320
01:16:27,130 --> 01:16:29,890
anybody else's.
And I thought that was just the

1321
01:16:29,890 --> 01:16:32,770
best answer.
Absolutely, Absolutely.

1322
01:16:33,010 --> 01:16:35,250
Winston's so awesome.
I've never met the gentleman,

1323
01:16:35,250 --> 01:16:39,570
but I sure hope to one day.
So he's held together that

1324
01:16:39,570 --> 01:16:42,370
community.
I mean our hope the Cadillac for

1325
01:16:42,370 --> 01:16:43,690
our.
I mean, like I said, the gold

1326
01:16:43,690 --> 01:16:47,010
standard for us is to have a
city of Zion where we all

1327
01:16:47,010 --> 01:16:49,530
practice these things.
And I think that he's done an

1328
01:16:49,530 --> 01:16:52,610
amazing or they he probably
would be a little ashamed for me

1329
01:16:52,610 --> 01:16:54,570
to say him.
They've done a wonderful job, I

1330
01:16:54,610 --> 01:16:57,090
think, yeah.
Yeah, I hear.

1331
01:16:57,090 --> 01:16:59,010
Nothing but good.
Winston is listening.

1332
01:16:59,050 --> 01:17:01,250
Winston, reach out to us.
We'd love to hear from you.

1333
01:17:02,730 --> 01:17:06,130
Winston I'm just saying if you
got a hankering to speak into a

1334
01:17:06,130 --> 01:17:09,050
mic, I can help, so.
There you go.

1335
01:17:10,610 --> 01:17:14,690
But anyway, gentlemen is, is
there anything you wanted to get

1336
01:17:14,690 --> 01:17:19,350
out there that we didn't cover?
Let's get the websites and plug

1337
01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:22,110
it.
Greg, if you could tell them and

1338
01:17:22,110 --> 01:17:24,590
how to submit as well?
Absolutely.

1339
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:27,750
So anything before that that I
missed that you guys wanted to

1340
01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:30,750
go over Anything important that
you feel like we didn't touch on

1341
01:17:30,750 --> 01:17:35,790
here on this project?
Well, you know, the only thing

1342
01:17:35,870 --> 01:17:40,550
before we go to the the web link
and the e-mail address is that I

1343
01:17:40,550 --> 01:17:43,670
just want people to know that
the magazine can't happen

1344
01:17:43,790 --> 01:17:47,100
without contributors.
Because no one wants to read

1345
01:17:47,100 --> 01:17:48,860
what Chad and I write every
month.

1346
01:17:50,020 --> 01:17:52,500
No, we need more.
We want church leaders, we want

1347
01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:56,540
brother, and we want sisters,
poets, musicians, subject

1348
01:17:56,540 --> 01:18:00,220
matter, experts, photographers,
anything that's faith affirming

1349
01:18:00,220 --> 01:18:02,580
and that can be shared with
others.

1350
01:18:03,780 --> 01:18:07,860
No screeds, no, no negativity,
but just love one another,

1351
01:18:08,180 --> 01:18:11,100
essentially.
That's that's the key for us,

1352
01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:14,300
because we want to unite and not
divide.

1353
01:18:15,590 --> 01:18:18,550
If I could jump in and I would
just say this, let's say some of

1354
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:23,670
the bigger assemblages, AUB or
even some of the FLDS are a

1355
01:18:23,670 --> 01:18:25,510
large contingent of the
Independence.

1356
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:26,950
Even out in Missouri are
listening.

1357
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:33,310
Our desire here is to we want to
reach out to each other and

1358
01:18:33,310 --> 01:18:36,790
become each other's friends
without acrimony or animosity.

1359
01:18:37,230 --> 01:18:40,950
Now, understandably, where there
have been splits in certain

1360
01:18:41,070 --> 01:18:43,870
religions, there are some hard
feelings.

1361
01:18:44,180 --> 01:18:46,380
We're not looking to agitate or
foment.

1362
01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:50,380
What we're trying to do is find
a natural way for us to to

1363
01:18:50,380 --> 01:18:55,340
basically celebrate together our
common belief systems without,

1364
01:18:55,660 --> 01:18:59,260
without, without fear.
We're trying to remove those

1365
01:18:59,260 --> 01:19:01,620
shadows.
We we don't have to worry about

1366
01:19:01,620 --> 01:19:04,980
federal boogeyman, you know,
coming in and putting us in

1367
01:19:04,980 --> 01:19:06,260
jail.
We don't have to worry about

1368
01:19:06,260 --> 01:19:11,250
state or locals in a lot of
these states doing this to us

1369
01:19:11,250 --> 01:19:13,090
anymore.
And I think it's time for us to

1370
01:19:13,090 --> 01:19:16,690
put our best leg forward.
I mean the Sister Wives program

1371
01:19:16,690 --> 01:19:20,810
did a lot for our movement as
far as like normalizing or

1372
01:19:20,810 --> 01:19:25,410
habituating people to the notion
of one man with a with a plural

1373
01:19:25,410 --> 01:19:28,450
marriage and making it work in a
modern day.

1374
01:19:28,730 --> 01:19:32,330
But people need to understand we
have our orthodoxy.

1375
01:19:32,450 --> 01:19:35,890
We do have Prairie dress
wearing, men wearing, you know,

1376
01:19:35,890 --> 01:19:39,150
some of the older stuff.
But we also have like yourself,

1377
01:19:39,150 --> 01:19:43,070
we have very, very men of
letters, you know, men of repute

1378
01:19:43,070 --> 01:19:46,070
we have.
This is a very wide-ranging.

1379
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:49,190
It's a doctrinal, it is a
doctrinal lifestyle.

1380
01:19:49,590 --> 01:19:53,030
So we want to put our best leg
forward not just for the

1381
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:58,030
mainstream Mormons, but also for
for Christians, non Christians

1382
01:19:58,030 --> 01:19:59,750
and others that are looking to
us.

1383
01:19:59,990 --> 01:20:02,710
We want them to understand us
the way we ought to be

1384
01:20:02,710 --> 01:20:05,550
understood, and that's the
purpose of this publication.

1385
01:20:05,550 --> 01:20:10,060
If it blossoms out to A.
Social media site and we have

1386
01:20:10,780 --> 01:20:14,980
15,000 people on on a daily
basis visiting there like

1387
01:20:14,980 --> 01:20:17,780
Facebook.
We would hope that it would be a

1388
01:20:17,780 --> 01:20:21,660
positive thing.
You know and and I'm not a I'm a

1389
01:20:21,660 --> 01:20:23,620
realist.
I understand that bad things

1390
01:20:23,620 --> 01:20:29,300
happen, but bringing us together
is the hope of this magazine.

1391
01:20:29,380 --> 01:20:34,260
And my hope is to hand it over
to to a council of people from

1392
01:20:34,260 --> 01:20:38,610
many different other churches,
not-for-profit directorship, so

1393
01:20:38,610 --> 01:20:42,010
that we can get our word out to
the mainstream Because like you

1394
01:20:42,010 --> 01:20:46,810
said, you're prognosticating it.
I am to the the, the mother

1395
01:20:46,810 --> 01:20:49,530
Church, the mainstream church.
You're going to see an exodus.

1396
01:20:49,650 --> 01:20:51,690
People are going to want to live
like Joseph Smith.

1397
01:20:51,690 --> 01:20:53,490
They're going to want to live
like Brigham Young.

1398
01:20:55,330 --> 01:20:57,930
Absolutely.
So if someone wants to help out,

1399
01:20:57,930 --> 01:20:59,330
how do they reach out to you
guys?

1400
01:21:00,290 --> 01:21:00,970
All right.
Well.

1401
01:21:02,580 --> 01:21:04,460
First thing is folks should
actually go check out the blog

1402
01:21:04,460 --> 01:21:06,340
and I'll.
I'm sure you'll you'll include a

1403
01:21:06,340 --> 01:21:11,260
link, but the blog is located.
Yeah, great, it's the

1404
01:21:11,260 --> 01:21:19,660
fundamentalistonline.blogspotthatsblogspot.com
the

1405
01:21:19,660 --> 01:21:24,700
fundamentalistonline.blogspot.com.
Go check it out and then if you

1406
01:21:24,700 --> 01:21:29,020
like what you read, the way to
reach us is fundamentalist mag.

1407
01:21:29,100 --> 01:21:30,820
That's MAG.
All one word.

1408
01:21:31,250 --> 01:21:35,770
At gmail.com and that quote Chad
and myself, and we'll see it the

1409
01:21:35,770 --> 01:21:38,610
second you send it over.
And that can include writing.

1410
01:21:38,930 --> 01:21:43,410
It can include photos if there's
music or audio involved, sure,

1411
01:21:43,770 --> 01:21:46,290
and then we'll look at it.
We also want folks to give us

1412
01:21:46,290 --> 01:21:50,450
away, if possible beyond e-mail
to reach out back to them and

1413
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:53,490
say, hey, we got it, this is
great.

1414
01:21:54,830 --> 01:21:58,430
Or, OK, there's there's some
things that are questionable,

1415
01:21:58,430 --> 01:22:00,790
you know, just to talk about it
and we'll figure it out.

1416
01:22:00,790 --> 01:22:02,910
But definitely fundamentalist
online, the

1417
01:22:02,910 --> 01:22:07,070
fundamentalistonline.blogspot.com
and the e-mail is

1418
01:22:07,070 --> 01:22:12,230
fundamentalist.mag@gmail.com.
I thought of one other thing,

1419
01:22:12,230 --> 01:22:13,950
David.
I thought of one other thing.

1420
01:22:14,670 --> 01:22:18,510
So you were you brought this up
briefly, but it's true.

1421
01:22:18,830 --> 01:22:22,240
Our fundamentalist nature leads
a lot to word of mouth.

1422
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:26,440
We are like the old style Jews
by comparison to modern We do

1423
01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:29,000
have our legalisms, we have our
canonized scriptures, we have

1424
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:31,880
our journal of discourses.
But when you when I'm speaking

1425
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:37,520
now to the mainstream LDS, when
you come among us, do not be

1426
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:42,680
surprised to have people talk
about doctrine and and

1427
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:46,860
discussions that happened 100
years ago and they'll act as

1428
01:22:46,860 --> 01:22:49,260
though it happened yesterday.
And these are close uncles.

1429
01:22:49,260 --> 01:22:52,660
We do do that.
We do use a lot of word of mouth

1430
01:22:53,140 --> 01:22:57,820
and our testimonies are replete
with stories and belief systems

1431
01:22:57,820 --> 01:23:00,380
and when you get that, it is
very endearing.

1432
01:23:00,380 --> 01:23:03,020
It's it's almost like the
ancient primitive church.

1433
01:23:03,820 --> 01:23:09,900
But we do also, we do also have
our our a movement afoot in our

1434
01:23:10,260 --> 01:23:13,880
covenant Mormon you know
movement that that is very

1435
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,800
legalistic as well.
They want to go through the

1436
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,120
journal of Discourses.
They want to parse out and find,

1437
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:20,800
as you call it, cracking the
books.

1438
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:25,560
But when when the mainstream
does come with their with their

1439
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:30,240
numbered scriptures and all of
the the citations and the rest

1440
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:33,240
of it, they're going to hear
doctrines, important things.

1441
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,840
I want to bear my testimony.
I don't want to take too much of

1442
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:40,380
your time doing it, but when you
come to us and you, you do have

1443
01:23:40,380 --> 01:23:43,220
these discussions, you need to
understand that Wilfred

1444
01:23:43,220 --> 01:23:48,020
Woodruff, when he did do what he
called a manifesto, he would did

1445
01:23:48,020 --> 01:23:49,820
not support it.
That's why there was a second

1446
01:23:49,820 --> 01:23:53,420
and even a third one in the in
the 1930s.

1447
01:23:54,460 --> 01:23:57,820
My testimony is this.
When you read third Nephi 20 and

1448
01:23:57,820 --> 01:24:00,340
21, it talks about the Gentile
church.

1449
01:24:00,340 --> 01:24:02,700
It talks about the fullness of
the gospel and when it gets

1450
01:24:02,700 --> 01:24:06,620
taken from the Gentile church,
it talks about the Lord turning

1451
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:09,440
his eyes back and reconstituting
the Jews.

1452
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:13,920
I just want the mainstream LDS
to know that these prophecies

1453
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:18,360
are real.
In 18931893 the church gave up

1454
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:21,640
plural celestial marriage, the
Council of 50, Kingdom of God,

1455
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:25,600
and the law of consecration on a
church wide basis.

1456
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:30,760
Within six months the Dreyfus
affair occurred and then Zionism

1457
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:36,850
under Theodore Herzl occurred.
That was in 189495 That's when

1458
01:24:36,850 --> 01:24:39,930
the the movement to go back to
Israel happened almost

1459
01:24:39,970 --> 01:24:42,490
immediately.
So when the fullness of the

1460
01:24:42,490 --> 01:24:45,450
gospel, as we called it, was
taken away from the Mother

1461
01:24:45,450 --> 01:24:49,650
Church, the Lord did set about
things in motion to turn his

1462
01:24:49,650 --> 01:24:51,650
eyes to the reconstitution of
the Jews.

1463
01:24:52,130 --> 01:24:55,930
And these things are real.
We are not playing at this

1464
01:24:55,930 --> 01:24:59,210
religion.
We are the religion, and we we

1465
01:24:59,210 --> 01:25:02,530
welcome you, we want you here.
We are studied, we are

1466
01:25:02,530 --> 01:25:05,360
knowledgeable.
We know our scriptures, but you

1467
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:09,800
are going to hear stories upon
stories upon stories about, oh

1468
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:14,000
brother Pratt said this and and
President Taylor in 1886 in

1469
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,600
Centerville and and this.
That's how we are.

1470
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:18,440
We, we are those types of
people.

1471
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,720
Awesome.
Thanks, Greg.

1472
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,120
Anything else you want to add
before we wrap up man?

1473
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,000
I I just want to give an
applause for that.

1474
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:31,320
I agree it's you will hear
things from.

1475
01:25:31,910 --> 01:25:35,790
The entirety of of the doctrine
and of the church, because

1476
01:25:35,790 --> 01:25:39,870
that's who we are.
It the LDS Church didn't start

1477
01:25:39,870 --> 01:25:42,870
in 1900.
It didn't start in 1945.

1478
01:25:43,390 --> 01:25:47,670
It came about in 1830 as a
restoration and we believe in

1479
01:25:47,670 --> 01:25:51,670
living the fullness of of the
gospel, and that's a beautiful

1480
01:25:51,670 --> 01:25:53,950
thing.
Perfect.

1481
01:25:54,570 --> 01:25:56,530
Well gentlemen this has been a
privilege.

1482
01:25:56,530 --> 01:25:59,610
I I appreciate the opportunity
to talk to you guys.

1483
01:25:59,610 --> 01:26:04,330
I think it's an absolutely
wonderful undertaking you've

1484
01:26:04,410 --> 01:26:08,370
you've done here.
I'm I'm super excited to see, to

1485
01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:14,850
see it come come to fruition and
I tell everyone on this on the

1486
01:26:14,850 --> 01:26:18,970
podcast that's been on here and
I I 100% mean it.

1487
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,600
Once you've been on here, you
got a standing invitation to

1488
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:26,000
come back on anytime.
So as as you guys continue to

1489
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:29,720
make headway, let me know.
I'd be happy to to help get the

1490
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:33,360
word out in any way I can.
I think it's a great thing you

1491
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,680
guys are doing and I I look
forward to working with you in

1492
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,840
it.
We are faithful listeners.

1493
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,880
We are faithful listeners to
Renegade with the Renegade

1494
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,880
Mormon Podcast and and we
appreciate Jake David, the role

1495
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,080
that you do for our for our
religion.

1496
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:49,200
Thank you.
I appreciate that.

1497
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:51,320
Absolutely.
Thanks a lot.

1498
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:53,120
Thank you so much, David.
All right, Yep.

1499
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,720
You hang around for just a few
minutes here after we stop

1500
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:57,600
recording, all right?
Yep.

1501
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,520
All right, Awesome.
All right, see you, everyone.

1502
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:01,480
Next time.
Bye.

1503
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:35,320
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.