Episode #126: DNA Research & The Book of Mormon W/Ken Peterson

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One of the things that often
rocks the testimony of Mormons

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is when the historicity of the
Book of Mormon is called into

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question, and it appears that
there might be some conflicts

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between science and the Book of
Mormon.

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The truth is, however, that
usually what is thrown into

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question isn't the historicity
of the book itself, but rather

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the narratives that we as
individuals read into that text.

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This is never more on display
than when the issue of DNA is

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raised as a critique to the Book
of Mormon.

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I mean, if the Book of Mormon is
true and details the account of

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a Middle Eastern family
settlement of a portion of the

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New World, we should expect to
see that DNA from Middle Eastern

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people and some Native American
population should match, right?

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Well, maybe not so much.
Ken Peterson joins me again on

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the podcast to break all of this
down.

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By the end, I think you might
find out, like I did, that many

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of the so-called conflicts
between the Book of Mormon and

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DNA research are more conflicts
with the narratives that we as

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people construct about the Book
of Mormon and that DNA research.

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And that's next on this episode
of the Mormon Renegade podcast.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Ken, what's going on?
Everything.

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Everything.
Just living, you know.

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I hear you.
Doing live and watching it.

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You have to keep my eyes over
the end of the world.

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You know, all that stuff.
Yeah, just just that stuff,

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right?
Well dude, have you heard about

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the red heifer?
Yes.

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That's to me, that's crazy,
right?

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Like, they don't show up often.
Like, there's been like nine of

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them and there's only supposed
to be 10 before quote, Messiah

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comes according to Jewish
tradition.

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And yeah, I'm just saying we got
that going for us now, So we

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have red cows.
A lot going on, yeah.

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My first thought was, do they
taste like normal cows?

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Like, I'm kind of intrigued now,
right?

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Like, what's your first my Yeah,
right after is Jesus's coming

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back?
My next thought was, how does

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that cow taste?
I wonder how red heifers taste.

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Yeah.
How would I prepare that?

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Right, right.
Are we talking like 2 minutes

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each side get the nice grill
mark, salt and pepper?

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I mean, what are we talking?
But.

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True carnivore, True carnivore.
Anyway, dude, I am so jacked up

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for this one DNA in the book of
Mormons.

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So for for the longest time,
believing Mormons have kind of

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been beat up over this issue a
little bit, right?

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Oh, and it keeps coming back.
Yeah, like people keep saying

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show us, show us somebody with
Middle Eastern DNA here.

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And so with when when you told
me about this, I was like, oh,

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we gotta do this one, We've
gotta do this one.

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So I remember the morning it
first hit the papers that I was

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aware of.
I was teaching elders quorum at

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the time and I was preparing the
lesson.

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Then the I got the Sunday paper
and the headline was the DNA

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Proves the Book of Mormon False.
I changed my priesthood lesson.

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In a way we went but but we'll
we'll get into all of that.

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I once again I'm I'm always
grateful for these chances with

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you to get all my ducks in a row
so to speak.

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To get all the information
together and look at it again

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and you'll always learn
something new in the process and

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and always and struck with a
sense of wonder the marvelous

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work and a wonder that the
restored gospel is ultimately

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coming out the other side.
So so we're we're gonna we're

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gonna go down some rabbit holes.
I'd like to start with just a

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primer.
It's gonna feel like a biology

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class for a minute by a nucleus
headquarters of the cell and

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within the nucleus as you can
see are chromosomes and those

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chromosomes are comprised of
DNA.

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What is DNA?
Deoxyribonucleic acid is the

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molecule that Canary that
carries genetic information for

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the development and functioning
of an Organism.

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It's the computer code that
determines, that determines

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every aspect, physically,
mentally and otherwise, of who

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and what you are outside of
behavioral traits that we are

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influenced.
Within life, you know.

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It's made of two links.
It's like it's like a ladder

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that twists around like a
twisted ladder.

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The double Helix is what it's
called.

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DNA was first discovered back in
18 about 1874 by this Doctor Who

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was cleaning up, saw some pus on
a bandage and noticed some stuff

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on it.
But the the double Helix hadn't

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wasn't identified until the
1950s.

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Nineteen 54 by Doctor Watson and
a couple others and they won the

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Nobel Prize.
DNA analysis was first used for

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identifying perpetrator of a
crime in 1986 to show you how

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kind of how recent it is.
And we won't talk about the

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these four bases that create the
rungs of the ladder.

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The sequence of the bases encode
the biological information, such

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as the instructions for making a
protein or an RNA molecule,

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which is the messenger molecule.
The person who wrote this, that

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I'm quoting here from
thegenome.gov then says this

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very, very interesting thing.
Is there a more amazing molecule

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than DNA?
It makes each of us who we are.

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The DNA from any two people is
99.9% identical, with that

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shared blueprint guiding our
development form a common thread

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across the world.
That's kind of neat to know,

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yeah.
The diff, the differing .1%,

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contains variations that
influence our uniqueness.

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Which one, combined with our
environmental and social

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context, give us our abilities,
our health, our behavior.

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How can one single molecule
contain so much mystery and

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wonder?
I'll think about it.

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Every cell of your body has this
computer code, this genetic

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fingerprint that is responsible
for who making you who you are.

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There are no two of us that are
the same.

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Now, a little more detail just
to talk about the complexity of

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this molecule.
So what you're seeing is a

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chromosome, which kind of shows
you how the DNA is coiled around

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inside of it.
DNA usually occurs as linear

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chromosomes and eukaryotes and
circular chromosome.

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In prokaryotes, the set of
chromosomes in a cell makes up

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its genome.
The human genome has

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approximately 3 billion base
pairs of DNA arranged into 46

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chromosomes.
A gene is a sequence of DNA that

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contains genetic information and
can influence the phenotype of

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an Organism, which are its
physical characteristics or

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always characteristics.
This this image here is a

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diagram of how the DNA cell
replicates itself.

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Reading from left to right, it
divides itself in half and then

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reassembles itself with another
half, thereby creating 2 strands

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of DNA where there was just one.
So not only is it super complex,

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the way it replicates, it's like
a machine.

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Look at all the parts and the
processes involved, the things

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that the things that we utterly
take for granted in humans.

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The total female diploid nuclear
genome per cell.

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So one nuclear genome in one
cell extends for 6.37 giga base

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pairs, that's 6.37 billion base
pairs.

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It is if you if there's so many
of them that it would stretch 7

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feet, you couldn't even see it,
but it would be that.

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That's how much male value is a
little less, anyway.

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Yeah, Holy.
Cow. 208 centimeters.

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Each DNA polymer can contain
hundreds of millions of

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nucleotides, such as in
chromosome #1, which is the

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largest human chromosome with
approximately 220 million base

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pairs.
It would be 3 1/2 inches long if

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it were straight.
Now, all right, you get So as as

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I was putting this together, the
sense of awe and wonder.

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I mean, the first time I heard
about some biology, I was going

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to sleep.
But as an adult, I'm going wow.

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Yeah.
This is miraculous.

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This is evolution.
Is is amazing, isn't it?

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Yeah, Evolution.
Yeah, Yeah, it's, it's

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fantastic.
How?

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You know private prior in one of
our earlier discussions we

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talked about there are various
scientists who are jumping ship

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from Darwinism, most of them
being molecular biologists.

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And just looking at what we've
looked at in terms of how the

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cell is run and how the body is
coded and how it's produced,

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how, how in the hell is this
stuff supposed to self assemble

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from nothing?
How does that happen?

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Well, and just the just the
complexity, right?

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Yeah, just the complexity of
alone is is enough to say no,

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it's computer code, right?
And just like all code, there

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has to be an author.
Billions.

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Right.
Billions of bits of code.

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So the Wikipedia website on DNA,
It's really it's more

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information you'll ever want to
know.

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But one of the sections that I
really wanted to quote because I

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thought you would find it
interesting is how DNA and its

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relevance to human evolution.
And here it is.

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DNA contains the genetic
information that allows all

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forms of life to function, grow
and reproduce.

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Duh.
However, it is unclear how long

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in the 4 billion year history of
life DNA has performed this

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function as it has been proposed
that the earliest forms of life

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may have used RNA as their
genetic material.

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Why would they say that that
that is a straight up admission

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that abiogenesis life
spontaneously generating on

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earth, especially in the form of
DNA is impossible.

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Yeah, I mean that's what that
that's an admission.

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Oh well then it must be
something simpler that evolved

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like RNA.
RNA is.

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Half of the of DNA.
So instead of the whole ladder,

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you only got one side with the
rungs attached to it, right?

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You know what the problem is
with RNA?

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What's that?
It doesn't replicate.

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It doesn't replicate.
It can't recreate itself.

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DNA replicates, RNA does not.
It would be a lot like, again,

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creating something out of
nothing.

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Yes, the complexity of that, let
alone to get it to work, let

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alone to have a male species and
a female aspect of the species

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combined to reproduce.
Which is also interesting

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because each cell has different
forms of DNA in it and they

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never interact.
They stay in their own zones

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until reproduction occurs.
Only then does the DNA recombine

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the male with the female.
Interesting evolution is

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evolution is miraculous.
I was gonna say how.

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It can do that.
I know, I know, I was gonna say.

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Now it is taking into account
things like guys who think they

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should be women, right?
The DNA is taking in.

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Taking.
Account.

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Of then there's that aspect of
it.

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I I'm just curious.
I mean, I'm just wondering how

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the DNA does that.
I I don't know.

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Well, and here's the sad, But I
don't know what's sad, but the

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fact of the matter is, it
doesn't matter what you do to

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your body in terms of its
appearance, of what kind of

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hormones you take to try and
imitate or mimic the opposite

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sex.
Every single cell in your body

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is either male or female, and
that's not going to change.

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Wow, the hate that comes from
DNA.

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Just the hate.
Only two genders.

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Sorry, I mean, but that's and
that's a hard fact.

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I and I and I say that not to
condemn.

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I have good friends, dear
friends, who are experiencing

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transgenderism and it's a hard
thinking.

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I have all the care and love
that I can muster that I have

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00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,400
for these people.
I really do care about them and

229
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,400
I don't.
I don't have answers for them.

230
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:46,640
But the the the fact that the
the sad fact for transgenders is

231
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:47,800
you.
You really can't.

232
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,920
You can't change your structural
cellular DNA makeup.

233
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,560
You just can't.
No.

234
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,880
If if you're born a guy, you're
always a guy.

235
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,920
There's no way around that.
So getting back to how evolution

236
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,680
addresses DNA, well, so it must
have come.

237
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,000
RNA must have somehow done it
first, which led to DNA.

238
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,680
This ancient RNA world, where
nucleic acid would have been

239
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,640
used for both catalysis,
catalysis and genetics may have

240
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,400
influenced the evolution of the
current genetic code based on 4

241
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,920
nucleotide bases.
However, there is no direct

242
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,520
evidence of ancient genetic
systems as recovery of DNA for

243
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,280
most fossils is impossible
because DNA survives in the

244
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,920
environment for less than
1,000,000 years.

245
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,280
This is amazing.
The oldest bit of DNA that has

246
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,400
been sequenced thus far is over
a million years old.

247
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,280
It survives that long from a
woolly map.

248
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,760
Pretty crazy.
We'll talk more about that.

249
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,720
Here's my favorite part.
Building blocks of DNA may have

250
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,360
been formed extraterrestrially
in outer space.

251
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,960
Complex DNA and RNA, organic
compounds of life including

252
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,560
Eurosol blah blah blah blah,
have also been formed in the

253
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,560
laboratory under conditions
mimicking those found in outer

254
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,720
space using starting chemicals
such as pyramidine found in

255
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,640
meteorite.
OK, so I'm gonna put put forward

256
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,119
a crazy idea.
So let's just say there was this

257
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:27,920
all omnipotent being who then
placed another individual in

258
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,080
some place, I don't know, like a
garden.

259
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,800
Is that what they mean by
extraterrestrial?

260
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,320
This is what I think is funny.
That I mean, you read the rest

261
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,800
of the article and it's highly
scientific and very technical.

262
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,560
Then you read these two
paragraphs and they're just

263
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,880
dumb.
They're dumb.

264
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:52,240
We've just read about the
incalculable complexities of how

265
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:58,480
the cell reproduces, how it even
operates, and how it the

266
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,720
complexity of it, and the the
interconnectedness of all of

267
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,120
those systems.
It's so mind boggling.

268
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,040
You know what mechanical
engineer would take a week to

269
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,600
get that all figured out.
Yeah.

270
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,840
It's so mind boggling that you
know that couldn't self

271
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:16,920
assemble.
No.

272
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:23,120
Statistically, and this is a
fact statistically, that those

273
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:26,880
all of those billions of bits
should come together in and of

274
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,560
themselves to produce complex
life forms like us is

275
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,480
statistically impossible.
Absolutely.

276
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:39,760
That's not an exaggeration.
No matter it doesn't. 4 1/2

277
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,160
billion years wouldn't even come
close, right?

278
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,320
You give it an infinite amount
of time, it's not gonna happen.

279
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,760
Sorry.
Anyway, so and they admit that

280
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,640
right off the bat?
Well, then maybe it was RNA.

281
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,880
Then realizing that that
couldn't happen on Earth too.

282
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,880
Well, maybe it happened in outer
space.

283
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,600
Let's kick the can down the
road.

284
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,840
That's how it happened.
I mean that's just that's

285
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,800
desperate.
It It is desperate, right?

286
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,040
For a football game, it would it
would be a punt, you know.

287
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,920
Anyway, I thought you'd
appreciate.

288
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,760
No, I I do cause 'cause it's
like, hey, we might have this

289
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,840
possible explanation in this
dusty old book and they're like,

290
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,640
Nah, get that out of here.
The aliens did it.

291
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,560
That's what did it.
And it was in in Darwin's era,

292
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,840
it was easy for him to come up
with that theory of human

293
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,600
evolution because they did not
have any knowledge of the

294
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,360
cellular structure of
microbiology.

295
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:37,760
They didn't know any of that
stuff.

296
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,760
The molecular biologist are
looking at this and going now.

297
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,760
There's no way.
All right, DNA profiling.

298
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,880
Forensic scientists now can use
DNA in blood, semen, skin,

299
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:57,440
saliva or hair found at a crime
scene to identify the matching

300
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,360
DNA of an individual, such as a
perpetrator.

301
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,000
First time in 1986.
This process is formally termed

302
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,240
DNA profiling, also called DNA
fingerprinting.

303
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,960
And may I also add, it made for
great TV when Maury Povich would

304
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,720
say with 99.9% certainty you are
or not the father.

305
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,040
So I mean it did give us that
Jim, so.

306
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,200
Well, we'll get to that.
So DNA profiling is also used

307
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,120
successfully positively
identified victims of mass

308
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:33,880
casualty incidents.
Like the Twin Towers.

309
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720
DNA profiling is also used in
DNA fraternity testing.

310
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,680
Pardon my asthma.
It's all good.

311
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,160
The probability of parentage is
typically 99.99%.

312
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,680
That's how accurate it is.
But here's where the Book of

313
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,200
Mormon comes into this
discussion.

314
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,360
Because DNA collects mutations
over time, which are then

315
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,600
inherited, it contains
historical information.

316
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,240
And by comparing DNA sequences,
geneticists can infer the

317
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:28,120
evolutionary history of
organisms, the phylogeny, the

318
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,360
physical traits.
This can be used in studies

319
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,880
ranging from ecological genetics
to anthropology.

320
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,520
Human migration, genealogical
DNA testing methods have been

321
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,640
used on a longer time scale to
trace human migratory patterns.

322
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,000
For example, they determined
when the first humans came to

323
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,200
North America and what path they
followed.

324
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,200
And we'll talk now the science,
the science of that is not

325
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,760
finished.
There probably never will be in

326
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,400
this life.
But what we have is fascinating.

327
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,080
For several years, researchers
and laboratories from around the

328
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,800
world sampled indigenous
populations from around the

329
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,880
globe in an effort to match.
In an effort to map historical

330
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,600
human migration patterns, the
National Geographic Society's

331
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,560
Geographic Project aims to map
historical historical human

332
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,520
migration patterns by collecting
and analyzing DA samples from

333
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,680
over 100,000 people across 5
continents.

334
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,960
You want to see the map.
Yeah, I do.

335
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,560
There you go.
Looks like a quilt.

336
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,120
They.
Categorize these these DNA

337
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,360
traits into groups called
haplogroups HAPLO haplogroups

338
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,960
and they label them with the
letters of the alphabet starting

339
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,920
with A.
And the further into the

340
00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:01,680
alphabet you get, the closer to
our time it becomes.

341
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:07,640
So haplogroups B&C are derived
from haplogroup A the originate

342
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,040
the original haplogroup.
OK.

343
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,960
Getting down to like, Z now,
what you'll notice we'll talk

344
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,520
more about this in a minute, is
that the Western Hemisphere

345
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,680
looks less like a patchwork
quilt than the Old World.

346
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,680
Yep.
Interesting.

347
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,640
Yeah.
In fact, the South, Central and

348
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,560
North America, with the
exception of Canada, Alaska is

349
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,480
essentially 1 haplogroup Q is
what it's called.

350
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,280
So we'll get to that.
But that I I could stare at this

351
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,760
for hours.
You know, just consider

352
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,800
especially the biblical history
and that sort of thing about

353
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,040
what's going on here.
So Ken, let me ask you this,

354
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:02,120
have they found a way to date
DNA right?

355
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,480
Oh yeah, cause 'cause I would be
interested.

356
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,080
Obviously there's some mass
migrations we're well aware of,

357
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,920
right?
The settling in the world,

358
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:14,240
that's pretty easy to go.
OK, This happened here and then

359
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,680
we saw see this influx here.
But anciently can, can they, can

360
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,640
they date that DNA to say, OK,
it's some time between this date

361
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,120
and this date.
Yes.

362
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,240
Yeah, very precisely, which is
why you'll notice like just look

363
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,960
at the Americas again, we'll
talk in more detail later on.

364
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,280
In the Americas, you'll see the
predominance of two haplotypes,

365
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:42,280
haplotype CC-3 and haplotype Q3.
OK.

366
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,520
All right.
They happened at different

367
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,640
times.
C came first, they're the

368
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,680
progenitors, and then Q
happened.

369
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,040
Most currently believe that the
new world of the Western

370
00:24:54,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Hemisphere, the American
continent, was populated in

371
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,760
three waves.
And I'll just let you Stew on

372
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,800
that for a minute while we we'll
come back to it.

373
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,720
But let's let's get on with.
Pete, can I ask one more

374
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,400
question about this map?
So where where they're mapping,

375
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,880
we'll just look at at at the new
World here we look at Q3 and

376
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,280
like QC 10 and that sort are
those native populations or are

377
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,520
those the populations living
there today?

378
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960
Those are the indigenous, the
native populations.

379
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,680
Yeah, this is, this is pre
European.

380
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,880
Colonization.
Which that's what they're trying

381
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,680
to do is determine the, the
origin of these indigenous

382
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,880
groups, which is really, it is
the coolest thing ever to see

383
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,200
them do this.
You know, right or wrong, I

384
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,640
would totally do this.
I mean, just to see, right?

385
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:54,640
All right, let's go on.
So here begins our story of of

386
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,200
the Genesis, the beginning of
this straw man argument that

387
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,640
people use to disprove the Book
of Mormon.

388
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,080
And this is the argument.
The understanding of Joseph

389
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,400
Smith and of traditional
Mormonism is the Book of Mormon.

390
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,880
Book of Mormon reveals that some
American Indians are descendants

391
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,200
of the Lamanites who descended
from Lehigh and are therefore a

392
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,680
remnant of the House of Israel.
So far so good.

393
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,120
Yep.
Mormon researchers such as

394
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,400
anthropologist Thomas Murphy and
I, I'll point out here.

395
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,000
We'll talk about him in more
detail, but he's not a

396
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,680
practicing Latter Day St.
No.

397
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,960
Yeah, he hasn't been doing it
for a.

398
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,200
Couple of years.
Yeah, and ex.

399
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,840
Mormon plant geneticist Simon
Sutherton state that the

400
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,960
substantial collection of Native
American genetic genetic markers

401
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,320
now available are not consistent
with any detectable presence of

402
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,400
ancestors from the ancient
Middle East.

403
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,560
They have argued that this poses
substantial evidence to

404
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,720
contradict the account of the
Book of Mormon.

405
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,480
And they have both come out and
said, essentially that Joseph

406
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,920
Smith is a fraud and that the
Book of Mormon is a faith-based

407
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,760
on that.
And we'll just say right now

408
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,000
that the majority, the vast
majority of Native American

409
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:25,400
indigenous DNA is Asian.
Asian right, Which includes them

410
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,000
at least, right.
No, but we'll talk, we'll talk

411
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,360
about that too because there is
that we'll get to that after all

412
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,720
this.
But no, we're like East Asian,

413
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,680
so we're talking.
About East Asian OK.

414
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,240
And I have to tell you, my
understanding is that Native

415
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,640
Americans don't like that.
I think I could understand.

416
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,360
But yeah, it's Asian DNA.
Well, we're good.

417
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,120
So this is Thomas, Born in 67,
earned his PhD in anthropology,

418
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,080
University of Washington in
2003.

419
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,560
His dissertation was this study
about the Lamanites and trying

420
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,440
to find this.
And they're both nice guys.

421
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,840
I mean, they're not out there
starting fires.

422
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,200
I mean, they have hit back
because there have been some

423
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,720
insensitive Mormons who kind of
come.

424
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,760
After them and.
Sure.

425
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,160
But even and and they've both
been on John Daylon's Mormon

426
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,280
Stories podcast, and they're
not.

427
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,880
They're they're humble about it.
They're not.

428
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,040
They're not trying to pick
fight.

429
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,600
They're just trying to live
their lives.

430
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,120
And I have, I empathize with
him.

431
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,840
If I were an anthropologist or a
genetic scientist and I saw an

432
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,800
opportunity to double check the
Book of Mormon claims, I would

433
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,880
have jumped at that chance just
like they did.

434
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,640
And I don't have any issues with
their findings.

435
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,760
I I I think their findings are
accurate.

436
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,160
I don't want necessarily their
findings, but findings of others

437
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,600
and and it has been confirmed
over the decades since they

438
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,680
first published in 2003 and
2004.

439
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,080
What I take issue with, and what
we'll talk about tonight, is the

440
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:22,040
application of what has been
found, #1 and #2, the premise

441
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,680
for the study, which is the
straw man.

442
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,560
Right.
Right.

443
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,440
And then, of course, as
professionals, they should also

444
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,840
recognize the limitations of the
study that they were trying to

445
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,040
do.
And we'll talk more about that.

446
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,000
So his dissertation came out
first, and then he published his

447
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,160
book, Lamanite, Genesis,
Genealogy and Genetics.

448
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,720
He posited that DNA evidence
suggests that Native Americans

449
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,040
are descendants of individuals
from northeastern Siberia, and

450
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,440
it's we know more that it's more
Asian than that.

451
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,760
Now, corroborating conclusions
of the anthropologist of Long

452
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:05,120
Hill, so that's his story.
He writes that DNA and other

453
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,040
research contradicts numerous
LDS doctrinal claims, such as

454
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,440
Native Americans are descended
from Middle Eastern people.

455
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,520
And there's his first error.
Native Americans are descended

456
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,520
for Middle Eastern people,
immigrated to the Americas in

457
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:25,520
600 BC Is that what the Book of
Mormon teaches Well?

458
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,680
Doesn't it say that in the title
page that the Lamanites were of

459
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,800
the seed of Lehigh who came out
of the Middle East right in?

460
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:43,920
1981 In the introduction The
Book of Mormon, which is written

461
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,440
in 1981, which is not a part of
the gold plates, Bruce Mcconkey

462
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,400
or someone under his direction,
wrote that the Lamanites were

463
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,040
the principal ancestors of the
Native Americans.

464
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,960
In light of this discovery, that
was changed in the early 2000s

465
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:09,320
to read that the Lamanites are
among the ancestors of the

466
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,280
Native Americans.
Does that make sense?

467
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,480
Yeah.
We'll talk about that, too.

468
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,440
So he has likened the Book of
Mormon to inspirational fiction.

469
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,240
It's a problem.
His view of genetic research was

470
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,160
expanded upon by molecular
molecular biologist Simon

471
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Sutherton, a former Mormon
Bishop, with his study Losing a

472
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,840
Lost Tribe, Native American DNA
in the Mormon Church, published

473
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:44,040
in 2004.
Mormon scholars and concessions

474
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,760
by geneticists from BYU Let's
see accounting, the current

475
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320
status of Allegis, and Native
American in context of national

476
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,440
studies.
Other researchers, like Scott

477
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Woodward from BYU, who's a
genetics A geneticist, are

478
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,440
critical of Sutherton's work.
And we'll talk about those.

479
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,720
But that's Thomas Murphy's
story.

480
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,320
So far, so good.
Yep.

481
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:13,240
So his state president asked him
to recant his position or to

482
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,040
resign from the church.
He declined to do both.

483
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,840
So they were going to call a a
council to disfellowship or

484
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,000
excommunicate him.
It received widespread attention

485
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,400
and less than 24 hours before
the scheduled meeting where he

486
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,280
would be excommunicated his
fellowship, they indefinitely

487
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,360
postponed his disciplinary
council.

488
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,160
So he's still a member of
record, even though he doesn't

489
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,520
believe it and as unattended
him, and he really, I mean you

490
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,480
watched the interview.
He really seems like a nice and

491
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,760
a thoughtful guy.
So there's a Simon Sutherton.

492
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,560
He was a member of the church,
converted at age 10.

493
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,920
He was a Bishop in Melbourne,
and he tells a story while he

494
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,480
was a Bishop.
He woke up one morning and

495
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,520
didn't believe it anymore.
After pondering some of his

496
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,760
stuff, he resigned.
His Bishop in 98 left the church

497
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,320
after his book was published.
The church charged him with

498
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:17,600
apostasy.
Sutherton stated that he was,

499
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,000
and this is neither here nor
there, but he was excommunicated

500
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000
for being too vocal regarding
the results of the genomics

501
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,640
product project DNA.
However, those who attended his

502
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,360
disciplinary council contended
that the excommunication had

503
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,480
nothing to do with the book.
In an interview with Mormon

504
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,280
podcast host John Delenn,
Southerton explained that he was

505
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,000
prevented from talking about his
position regarding the DNA

506
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,880
evidence in connection with
book.

507
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,480
Morning clarified that the
excommunication was not for

508
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,640
adultery, but rather for
inappropriate relations with a

509
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,200
woman.
During a period of time he was

510
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,160
separated from his wife.
This was after he'd left the

511
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,720
church and his wife left with
him.

512
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Although a little delayed from
him, I'm pleased to say that

513
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,960
they have been happily married
50 years.

514
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,280
Since so, I'm I'm glad.
That they're happy together.

515
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:12,239
According to him.
Anyway, so that's his story.

516
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,000
And for those of you who want
more information, his book, by

517
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:25,280
the way, doesn't talk just about
DNA again, because he I I think

518
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,920
he clearly felt offended by the
reaction of many Latter Day

519
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,960
Saints, you know, for him
attacking their faith through

520
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,760
this DNA thing.
He actually wrote a book.

521
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,159
His book looks a lot more like
the CES Letter than it does a

522
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:45,040
scientific book about DNA.
DNA is only a single chapter of

523
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,880
multiple chapters of of
criticisms about the Church of

524
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,320
Jesus.
Christ of Latter Day Saints.

525
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,960
Anyway, So what fair Latter Day
Saints has done, and you can see

526
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,400
the summary of claims here.
They do this with these anti

527
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,040
Mormon works that make this
doughnut. 14% of his book is

528
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:08,440
fact, 36% is spin, 30% are
mistakes and 20% are flat out

529
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,560
falsehoods of the book.
And they and they refute his

530
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,400
book line by line.
I mean it's a law, but if

531
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,920
anybody wants to look at that,
you can find it on fair Latter

532
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,640
Day Saints and there's the
website I list here.

533
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Or just look up Simon G
Sutherton and it'll take you to

534
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,800
that refutation page.
Kevin Barney, who sits on the

535
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,520
board of Fair and other places,
He's an attorney, practicing

536
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,240
attorney Chicago.
He paints with a broad brush,

537
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,200
but I think he kind of
characterizes what's happening

538
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,000
with these two guys here, he
says.

539
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,080
Murphy and Southerton appear to
be nice guys.

540
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,080
I would agree they are sincere
and they believe in what they're

541
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,760
doing.
Both seem to have had a similar

542
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,360
experience.
They apparently grew up with

543
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,320
Narrow, what I would call more
binary, simple assumptions about

544
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,160
the Book of Mormon believing in
and presumably knowing only of

545
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:17,760
the hemispheric model, which
prior to the 1980s, nobody knew

546
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,080
anything really about ancient
America.

547
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,160
We were all flying blind, we
were all ignorant.

548
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,360
And everybody who reads the Book
of Mormon for the first time

549
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,760
thinks the narrow neck of land
is Panama, the land of the first

550
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,480
inheritance of South America,
and the land northward is North

551
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,120
America, until you realize
there's no way the Alma could

552
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,960
traverse.
Right. 2000 miles in a month,

553
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,600
you know what I mean?
And other things.

554
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,520
So the the hemispheric model, I
mean, everybody kind of believed

555
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,360
in it.
And fortunately the church

556
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,400
itself never took an official
position.

557
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,240
We'll read about that, too.
But when they learned that the

558
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:02,480
hemispheric model was
scientifically and tenable, each

559
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,200
experienced unfulfilled
expectations and an ensuing

560
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,640
crisis of faith, upon which each
lost his belief in the antiquity

561
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,760
and historicity of the Book of
Mormon and the Church with it.

562
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,480
Now they desire to align others
under the banner of science, and

563
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,520
that's when the Church, in an
effort to protect the

564
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,520
membership.
If if practicing members are

565
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,520
using the Church to fight
against the Church, that's when

566
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,240
they have to be cut off and
excommunicated.

567
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Any questions about that?
It's kind of a a a simple

568
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,160
illustration of what's going on
with these guys and and I I

569
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,160
can't blame them if that was my
belief and understanding.

570
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,120
Fortunately for me and others,
like others like me, we had a

571
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:51,480
more complete, nuanced,
archaeologically based

572
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,120
understanding of ancient America
before these DNA studies came

573
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,040
came out.
Does the Book of Mormon teach

574
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,560
that all Native Americans are
descended from Lee Heights?

575
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:11,160
No, not not in my opinion.
Not I I Look, I know I'm gonna

576
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:17,400
piss certain people off, and I'm
kind of used to that here, but I

577
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,720
I don't think that North America
or South America, wherever they

578
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,920
landed, was uninhabited, right?
I don't believe that for a

579
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,320
minute.
I think there were already

580
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:34,240
people here.
And therefore to say that all

581
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:38,000
descendants, all Native
Americans or descendants of

582
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,560
Lehigh just wouldn't hold water?
However, do you think many in

583
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,080
the church actually believes
that?

584
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,200
I think there's there's some
that definitely do believe that,

585
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,240
yeah.
I I think most did.

586
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,720
I think I was one of them
because in the 1970s, what did

587
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,080
we know?
You know we had.

588
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,520
No Internet.
And we certainly didn't have the

589
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,720
view of ancient American Society
and culture that we have today.

590
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,560
All I had was the Book of Mormon
who talked about these people,

591
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,560
people in the Americas and
having these populations of the

592
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,560
millions.
So you you can see why people

593
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,080
would come up, make up these
great stories about how the the

594
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,200
Nephites, the Lamanites were
everywhere, you know.

595
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,840
So here's Doctor John Sorensen.
He was the chair and founder of

596
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,040
the anthropology department at
Brigham Young University.

597
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,120
I think history will look at
this man and recognize him as

598
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:40,360
being under appreciated, under
celebrated 20 years, what I'm

599
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:46,600
going to quote him saying, he
said, 20 years before

600
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,520
Southington and Murphy published
their DNA.

601
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,840
Stuff.
OK, 20. 20 years 1984, he said.

602
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,800
One problem some Latter Day St.
writers and lecturers have have

603
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,240
had is confusing the actual text
of the Book of Mormon with the

604
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,520
traditional interpretation of
it.

605
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,840
The Book of Mormon explicitly,
clearly teaches, unmistakably

606
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,720
teaches, that at least two other
groups of people had arrived on

607
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,480
the American continent before
Lehigh.

608
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:25,000
There were already people here.
The Muelekites, right?

609
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,080
But the Muelekites would have
been one.

610
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,240
That's right.
But the other and the most

611
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:36,200
significant who arrived 2000
years almost before Lehi, were

612
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,800
the Jaredites.
And we forget them.

613
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,280
They're just in this one book,
but they arrived right after the

614
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,160
Tower of Babel, shortly after
the flood.

615
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:51,960
Between 2500 and 2200 BC they
had 2000 years to roam this

616
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,800
continent and to settle.
And, yes, the central, the

617
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,960
capital of their society, killed
each other.

618
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,680
But that by no means suggests
that everybody, whoever came

619
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,160
over 2000 years ago, was dead,
right?

620
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,760
There's no way they could
possibly know that, right?

621
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,760
In any case, So I love what
Sorensen says.

622
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,200
They confuse the actual text
with traditional interpretation.

623
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,120
The traditional interpretation
of some is that all all Native

624
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,760
Americans are Lamanites.
In fact, the early brethren,

625
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,520
including Joseph Smith referred,
routinely referred to Native

626
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,760
Americans as Lamanites.
Sure, right?

627
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,440
Which genetically is not true.
But in terms of being Native

628
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,720
Americans, they just use those
terms interchangeably, he goes

629
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:40,760
on.
For example, a commonly heard

630
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,920
statement is that the Book of
Mormon is the history of the

631
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,440
American Indians, is it?
He says.

632
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,280
This statement contains a number
of unexamined assumptions that

633
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,680
the scripture is a history.
Is the common sense a

634
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,160
systematic, chronological
account of main events in the

635
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,960
past of a nation or territory,
that the American Indians are a

636
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,120
unitary population, and that the
approximately 100 pages of text

637
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,640
containing historical and
cultural material in the

638
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,160
Scripture could conceivably tell
the entire history of a

639
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,480
hemisphere?
He says sarcastically.

640
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Gotcha.
It's not.

641
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,080
It's No, it's not.
When he's when he's talking

642
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,960
about a unitary population, he's
talking about a population that

643
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,680
is the same, right?
Right, right.

644
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,680
Well, one solid unitary
population.

645
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,280
That is simply not true, he goes
on.

646
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,680
Here's the significant point for
me.

647
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:42,640
When unexamined assumptions like
these are made, critics respond

648
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,720
in kind.
He was prophesying.

649
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:50,800
Here, critics respond in kind,
criticizing not to the ancient

650
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,880
texts itself, but the
assumptions that we have made.

651
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,640
So 20 years before Sudderton and
Murphy did this, he prophesied

652
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,320
that it was going to happen.
Right.

653
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,440
And that's exactly what they've
done.

654
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,800
They didn't they didn't attack
what the Book of Mormon text is

655
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,920
telling us.
They attacked what many of us

656
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,240
had come to believe.
I think you bring up a good

657
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:17,280
point here and and I forgive me,
I'm slow, but I'm gonna try to

658
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,080
restate what you said here.
We're gonna be doing this a lot

659
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:27,120
because it is complicated.
So, so basically, a lot of times

660
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,360
what this DNA is pointing out
isn't falsehoods within the Book

661
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,800
of Mormon.
But maybe falsehoods about what

662
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,120
we believed to the Book of
Mormon was saying.

663
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,560
Agreed.
That's exactly right.

664
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,960
That's exactly right.
So, going on here, does the Book

665
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,080
of Mormon teach that the Lehighs
were the only people in the New

666
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,880
World?
No.

667
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,680
No, we've talked about this.
The Book of Mormon explicitly

668
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,000
reports that there were already
people in the Americas when

669
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,800
Lehigh arrived, and the some had
been here for nearly 2000 years

670
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,320
prior.
That's twice as long as the

671
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,200
Nephites existed on the.
God.

672
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,600
The church has never taught that
the Nephite civilization was Pan

673
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,680
American.
Right.

674
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,760
At least as early as 1929,
Anthony Ivan's a member of the

675
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,480
First Presidency, prophetically
stated, the Book of Mormon

676
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,760
teaches the history of three
distinct peoples, or two peoples

677
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,680
and three different colonies of
people who came from the Old

678
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,040
World to this continent.
It does not tell us that there

679
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,680
was no one here before them.
It does not tell us that people

680
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,960
did not come after, and so if
discoveries are made which

681
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,520
suggest differences in race
origins, it can very easily be

682
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,120
accounted for and reasonably
for.

683
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,080
We do believe that other people
came to this continent.

684
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,760
OK.
That's pretty good 1929, right?

685
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,000
Right, Absolutely.
So and we'll talk about the

686
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,720
implications of that and the
implications of what the DNA

687
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,720
really is saying.
But now we need to take a step

688
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:14,800
back and look at the limitations
of the historical DNA analysis.

689
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:19,320
This is Terrell Gibbons
commenting on this.

690
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,800
Quite simply, DNA would be a
relevant tool in the debate only

691
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,200
if a number of extraordinary
conditions were present.

692
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,760
The science can get quite
complicated, but the assumptions

693
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,400
of which it is based are not.
As Michael Whiting, a molecular

694
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,320
biologist and member of the
Scientific Review panel for the

695
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,360
National Science Foundation,
points out, at least ten factors

696
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,080
make the hypothesis of American
Indian Israelite connections

697
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,640
untestable.
Period.

698
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,560
You can't really test it.
Number one among these are the

699
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:56,240
unlikelihood of the Book of
Mormon people's remaining

700
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:00,840
genetically uncontaminated by
any other peoples during their

701
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,880
thousand year presence in this
hemisphere.

702
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,520
I'm out.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna interject

703
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,520
something here.
Make sure I I'm understanding.

704
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:14,200
When he says uncontaminated, is
he talking about like Ross

705
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,480
crossbreeding if you will, with?
Right.

706
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,280
Intermarrying.
Yeah.

707
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,400
Sharing DNA?
Intermarrying is a is a better

708
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,640
way.
The book, The Book of Mormon

709
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,840
explicitly teaches that yes,
Yep.

710
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,320
And it's the time of Christ's
coming.

711
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,840
Yeah, all one.
Right.

712
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,000
And so.
If if that's the case, right,

713
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,760
then that answers another
question.

714
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,520
In engineering, specifically
civil engineering, there's an

715
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,440
old adage that the solution to
pollution is dilution, right?

716
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,520
And so is there such thing as
diluting DNA, so to speak,

717
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,600
right?
Absolutely, over time.

718
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,600
With all the.
Intermarrying that's going on

719
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,680
between Lehigh Seed and and and
Mueck, the the people of Mueck

720
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,080
and and and the Jaredites.
If if they are intermarrying

721
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,760
with other try indigenous
tribes, we would expect then to

722
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,440
see if I'm understanding
correctly, that that you're

723
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,320
you're not going to get a
pristine sample so to speak of

724
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,600
that's exactly.
That's exactly true, right?

725
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,200
And that is only the tip.
Of this.

726
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,000
Iceberg.
OK, goes on.

727
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,480
One would also have to ignore
the effects of genetic

728
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,360
contamination among indigenous
populations that doubtless

729
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,400
occurred in the 15th centuries
after Book of Mormon History

730
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,240
ends.
KK So Book of.

731
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:38,920
Mormon history.
Ends 400 AD.

732
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,360
That's another 1100 years before
the European show up.

733
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,160
I mean, it's not gonna remain
Christine over that time either.

734
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,720
K Thirdly 1.
Would also.

735
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,280
Have to know precisely who among
the vast American Indian

736
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,760
populations of the day are the
descendants of what the Book of

737
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,200
Mormon calls Lamanites, the very
small.

738
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,120
Size of.
The founding genetic pools and

739
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,200
the shifting genetic identity of
the Middle Eastern host

740
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,480
population also present
challenges to experimental

741
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:14,280
validation, meaning how do we
know what 600 BC Middle Eastern

742
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,320
DNA look like?
OK, that's a good point.

743
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Talk about talk about genetic.
Mixing.

744
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,400
I mean, the Middle East has
Middle East has just been this

745
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:25,800
campaign sweeping?
Through it.

746
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,720
I mean for for 3000 years,
right?

747
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,880
2600 years?
Well, just here's.

748
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,600
The other here's Go ahead.
I was gonna say just think

749
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,560
about.
It in the last 100 years, right?

750
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,880
You have the you, you have the
Jews going back to Israel,

751
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,200
right?
And most of them would have been

752
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,760
classified as probably European
at that point, right, because

753
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,960
they're coming out of Europe and
there's been connections and

754
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,400
intermarrying.
And so now they introduced back

755
00:48:54,400 --> 00:49:00,400
into the Holy Land and yeah, so
that's that's probably the

756
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,760
single.
Well, they're all insurmountable

757
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,000
problems.
Now.

758
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,520
Here's what no one is really
talking about, which is

759
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,120
something that really should be
considered, was Lehi.

760
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,880
Jewish.
He was not.

761
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,800
The book of Alma states that he
was from the tribe of Manasseh,

762
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,000
one of the.
Lost 10.

763
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,120
Tribes.
We have no record of what that.

764
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,080
DNI.
DNA might look like, which is

765
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,880
especially important because
Manasseh and Ephraim would have

766
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,160
had the most distinctive DNA of
all of the tribes of Israel

767
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,280
because of their mother, their
father.

768
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,560
Was Joseph their?
Mother.

769
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:39,920
Was Egyptian.
Not only was she Egyptian, he

770
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,880
nibbly believed she was the well
her father was of the priest

771
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,360
class, he nibbly.
Suggested the Priest class.

772
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,360
In Egypt were black.
So right it was.

773
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,680
So what was?
What was?

774
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,320
If the northern 10 tribes had
already been carried away, what

775
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,760
was Lehigh doing in Jerusalem?
Well, of course he had fled

776
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,320
well, or his his predecessors
had fled to escape that right?

777
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,320
So he had a home in Jerusalem,
and he had an ancestral home up

778
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,880
further north from Jerusalem.
But that's also significant.

779
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,120
He's not Jewish.
He's not of the tribe of Levi,

780
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,040
so he's not a colon.
It could even if they had a pure

781
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,000
genetic line of the the tribe of
Judah or of the tribe of Levi,

782
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,000
it wouldn't necessarily apply.
In fact, it would be quite

783
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,560
distinct because of Asanet,
Joseph's wife.

784
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,120
OK, so so just for a.
Second, let's let's break this

785
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,600
down a little further, 'cause I
think this is super important

786
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:43,200
because when you start talking
about Judaism, I do believe at

787
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,800
some point there was a
bloodline.

788
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,880
Obviously, I believe that there
still is, you know, a little bit

789
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,520
of that that's ethnocentric,
right, if you will.

790
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,920
And then there is kind of the
cultural aspects of it, right?

791
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,800
Just like you would see people
because there are converts into

792
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,760
Judaism, right?
Correct.

793
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,880
And so we hide by every sense of
the word.

794
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,240
Could be a practicing Jew, but
not necessarily not necessarily

795
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,240
of Israelite lineage.
Is that is that kind of well

796
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:15,720
understanding.
OK, so he.

797
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:18,760
Is Israelite because he's one of
the 12 tribes, right?

798
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,800
And he practices.
Judaism.

799
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,440
Which is the name of those who
worship Yahweh, right?

800
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:26,960
But he is of the tribe of.
Manasseh.

801
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,760
He's so he's Israelite, but he's
not Jewish.

802
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,760
Jewish is the tribe of Judah.
OK, but he would have still.

803
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,680
Cause in the Book of Mormon it
talks about him keeping those

804
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,640
those customs right?
He offers sacrifices in the

805
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,240
desert, correct?
And and all those things

806
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:43,920
correct.
OK.

807
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,240
Anyway and until and I don't
think you're watching early like

808
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,160
we're we're about a.
Half hour in and my mind's

809
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,640
already blown a little bit here,
right?

810
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,000
Breaking down the complexity of
this, it gets it gets much.

811
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:01,960
Worse or better, it's pictures
and everything, but I would be.

812
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,480
Completely and utterly
surprised.

813
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,680
If there were a single human
being alive today that was of an

814
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:13,320
uncontaminated lineage, I I
don't believe that's possible.

815
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,920
Over thousands of years, we're
Yeah, especially.

816
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,680
In the world today.
And I'm not saying it's a bad

817
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,880
thing, and that's just the way
it is.

818
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,880
On the other hand, we're all
descendants of Charlemagne,

819
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,200
right?
We don't have any of his DNA

820
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,800
but.
But in terms of genealogy, yeah,

821
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,160
we're all related to him in that
sense, Native.

822
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,720
Americans are probably.
All descendants of Lehigh?

823
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,200
Well, yeah.
Because then then you look.

824
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,400
At the whole intermarrying
thing.

825
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,160
And you, you realize it kind of
goes both ways, right?

826
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,240
So while we hide, well, look his
his sons Lehman millenial.

827
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,600
Most likely intermarried and
recruited from the native

828
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,440
populations, which would explain
why they continually outnumbered

829
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,200
the Nephites.
Yeah?

830
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,480
And why?
And why they?

831
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,120
Ended up why they're generated.
Within a generation, their kids

832
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,400
would have darker skins than the
skins of the natives.

833
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,400
Yeah.
And then also I I.

834
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,520
Think this is maybe an important
point here.

835
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,000
If it's not, you can correct me,
but we don't know what Native

836
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,280
American DNA looked like before
Lehigh would have been there,

837
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,760
right?
Well, I think we do.

838
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,720
But we'll get to that.
OK, now here's the cool thing.

839
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,800
Simon Sotherton, the guy who
wrote the book in 2004 claiming

840
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,680
the Book of War was a fraud
because of this, in 2005, said

841
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,120
this.
And I quote in 600.

842
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,080
BC which?
When?

843
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,200
Lehigh arrived.
There were probably several

844
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:49,400
million American Indians living
in the Americas now.

845
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:50,720
Since that time because of
Lidar.

846
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,320
Discoveries.
That number has been revised

847
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,920
upward.
By a factor of at least 10.

848
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,240
There were hundreds of millions
of Native Americans, he goes on.

849
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,240
If a small group of Israelites
entered such a massive native

850
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:10,840
population, it would be very,
very hard to detect their genes

851
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:14,880
202,000 or even 20,000 years
later.

852
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,720
Hey, I'm not gonna put words.
In your mouth.

853
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:23,960
This comes from me.
So if he makes this admission

854
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:30,360
here, then to me and and fine
however you want to get through

855
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,880
it, that I I'm fine with you
doing whatever you need to do.

856
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,320
But I just ask that you be
honest and not drag people with

857
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,640
you to me.
If if you're if you're basing

858
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,520
your sole testimony on the
absence of DNA in the Book of

859
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,800
Mormon, but then you make an
admission at from a scientific

860
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,440
point of view here, just call it
what it is.

861
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,400
You probably want it out, and
you needed a way to get out and

862
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,560
this.
Who could?

863
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,280
Say I'll type.
From his book, though, his

864
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,280
issues are far more complicated
than just the DNA issue, right?

865
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,560
I mean it like it's.
It's the CES Letter.

866
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,760
Type stuff, right?
You know so.

867
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:09,160
Like.
The Book of Abraham, you.

868
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,800
Really relies heavily on that,
and you and I have discussed

869
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:17,520
that until midnight, but so
here's Wikipedia here.

870
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,600
Defenders of the Book of Mormon
have made arguments that center

871
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,360
on the idea that Book of Mormon
peoples from the Middle East

872
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,160
formed only a small portion of
the population of the Americas.

873
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:33,880
OK, now people say the limited
geography model was made in

874
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:43,200
response to this DNA attack.
But as I will show you, that

875
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,880
model was well, and it says here
in the quote, top models put

876
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:54,520
forth in 1984 by John Sorensen
in the enzyme and their genetic

877
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,560
heritage may have been diluted
beyond what cannot be detected.

878
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,400
The limited geography model of
the Book of Mormon supports this

879
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,880
position.
This geographical and population

880
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,760
model was formally published in
an official LDS magazine, The

881
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,800
Enzyme, in a two-part series
published in September and

882
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,080
October 1984.
And anybody can read it for free

883
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,080
online.
Yeah.

884
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:20,240
People when they talk about John
Sorensen, someone.

885
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:24,360
Once described him as if he he
inhaled the Book of Mormon.

886
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,480
That guy.
And and I I knew people who were

887
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,240
his home teachers that talk
about intimidated that guy.

888
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:37,200
He he knew the Book of Mormon so
well inside and out and probably

889
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,440
had all 600 geographical
references in the Book of Mormon

890
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:46,680
memorized.
His work stunning up until the

891
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:51,680
point that he died a few years
back, but an early American

892
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,360
setting.
For the book of.

893
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,360
Mormon, an ancient American
setting for the Book of Mormon,

894
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,800
came about in the early 1980s.
He was so far ahead of

895
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,280
everybody.
We're still catching up to him.

896
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:04,120
Here's the other issue.
It's called the population.

897
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:08,040
Bottleneck which is the.
Loss of genetic variation.

898
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,400
That occurs when a natural
disaster, epidemic, disease,

899
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,560
massive war, or other calamity
results in the death of a

900
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,400
substantial part of a
population.

901
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,920
These events may severely reduce
or totally eliminate certain

902
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,600
genetic profiles.
In such cases, a population may

903
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,920
regain genetic diversity over
time through mutation, but much

904
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,320
of the diversity that previously
existed is irretrievably lost.

905
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,640
Can we think of any?
Of those circumstances regarding

906
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,840
the Native Americans.
Well, if you follow the Book of

907
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,880
Mormon.
The Nephi sure did dwindle in

908
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:47,240
numbers, right?
So yeah, you would you would

909
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,360
expect.
With that kind of war that that

910
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,320
whittles the population down
that much, that's the perfect

911
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,960
environment here that I think is
being talked about.

912
00:57:58,040 --> 00:57:59,920
Yeah, the term for.
That is called genocide.

913
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:06,400
The Nephites were extinguished,
haunted.

914
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,320
Down even after the record.
Was finished.

915
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,440
Of course we.
Know that 400 years earlier they

916
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,600
were all one when they began to
distinguish themselves as

917
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,960
Nephites and Lamanites.
After that, it had nothing to do

918
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,360
with their lineage.
It had to do with are you a

919
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:24,880
believer or are you a non
believer?

920
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:26,720
You're right.
That's how it.

921
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,960
Started.
But still, that's a significant

922
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,760
calamity happened to that
population in addition to.

923
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,680
The catastrophic war at the end.
Of the Book of Mormon.

924
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,480
The European conquest of the
Americas in the 15th, 16th

925
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,520
centuries touched off just such
a cataclysmic chain of events.

926
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,040
As a result of war and the
spread of disease.

927
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,640
Many Native American groups
experienced devastating

928
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:54,640
population losses. 1 Molecular
anthropologist observed that the

929
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,840
conquest squeezed the entire
Amerindian population through a

930
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,760
giant through a genetic
bottleneck.

931
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,240
He he concluded this population
reduction has forever altered

932
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,680
the genetics of the surviving
groups, thus complicating any

933
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,320
attempts at reconstructing the
PRE.

934
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,880
Columbia.
Genetic structure of the most of

935
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,240
most New World groups
approximately.

936
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,520
Now this is the crazy part.
Approximately 90% of the

937
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,400
Amerindian population died out
following.

938
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,240
Contact with Europeans.
Most most of this was due to

939
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,840
infectious disease against which
they had no defense.

940
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,400
It may be that eliminating 90%
of the pre contact gene pool has

941
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,880
significantly distorted the true
genetic picture of Lehigh's

942
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,880
descendants.
From this fact alone population

943
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,320
bottleneck, it is impossible, I
mean.

944
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,800
Let's say by the.
Time the Europeans got here.

945
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:56,120
There were still a little bit.
We might have had some Manasseh

946
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,000
DNA in there somewhere, right
after 90% is wiped out, they're

947
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,240
gone.
There's no way.

948
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,640
That that would supply that?
Right.

949
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,920
Question.
About that, Nope, no, I think

950
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:09,880
that's pretty.
Clear.

951
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,200
So this is going.
Back to the the.

952
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,320
Change to the introduction of
the Book of Mormon.

953
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:25,280
And I think Thomas Murphy, the
first author, takes pride in the

954
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,600
fact that he feels like he made
the church do this, and he's not

955
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,320
wrong.
Here's the interesting thing.

956
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,920
Even though it was devastating
to their own faith journey, what

957
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:42,280
they did has taught us about our
own Book of Mormon, made it

958
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,360
richer and better and more
accurate.

959
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,800
Our understanding of it, right,
without disproving it as they

960
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,920
would like to have everybody
believe.

961
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,400
And we'll talk about why that
is.

962
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,520
When the introduction Book of
Mormon was pinned in 1981 under

963
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,960
Mcconkey's direction, or by him
personally, it reflected the

964
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,680
popular view.
But the Book of Mormon was.

965
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,640
About the.
Origins of Native Americans

966
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,960
across the whole atmosphere and
that ancient Lamanites were the

967
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,280
primary ancestors of modern
Native Americans.

968
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,040
The updated version will add 1.
Word that makes the introduction

969
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:19,120
a more accurate statement of
what the text itself says or

970
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,200
doesn't say.
The word is among now.

971
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,440
The Lamanites are among the
ancestors of the American

972
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:26,760
Indians.
Bravo.

973
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,640
This word corrects that 1981
assumption, actually an old

974
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,640
assumption dating to the
earliest days of the church,

975
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,400
about the scope of the text.
It is not a correction of any

976
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,080
doctrine or principle taught in
the Book of Mormon itself, this

977
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:43,400
author goes.
On I'm.

978
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,520
Proud of a church that can
recognize the limitations of men

979
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,800
past and present and take
advantage of advances in

980
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:53,320
knowledge, I'm pleased that
improved understanding has

981
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:58,720
allowed old but possibly sloppy
assumptions to be revisited and

982
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,480
substantially improved through
the use of the word among to

983
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,840
more accurately reflect what the
text actually requires.

984
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,960
This change in the introduction
should be applauded.

985
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,480
That's what he said.
I agree with him 100% as many of

986
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,000
you know a few weeks back.
Robert Lefevre passed away.

987
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,680
Now Robert left quite a
footprint in Mormon

988
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:20,840
fundamentalism.
He is responsible for helping

989
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,880
hundreds, if not thousands of
independent Mormon

990
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,480
fundamentalist get their
ordinances as well.

991
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,520
Robert, I know for a fact, has
helped out two separate groups

992
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,280
of Mormon fundamentalists with
getting their ordinances.

993
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,560
Now, we all know funerals can be
expensive, and Robert's family's

994
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,040
in need of some help with those
costs.

995
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,040
So if you go to this episode
Show Notes, you'll see that

996
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,840
there's a GoFundMe page link.
Click on that link and let's.

997
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:45,960
Help.
This family out.

998
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,120
Look.
These times that come along

999
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,360
every so often, these are times
that we get to show not just the

1000
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,800
world, but also our heavenly
Father that we're willing to

1001
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,760
take care of his children.
So again, go to this episode,

1002
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,440
show notes, click that link and
make a donation today.

1003
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,840
Thank you.
Want more from the Mormon?

1004
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:07,480
Renegade Podcast Head over to
the Mormon Renegade Rumble page

1005
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,440
to see all the videos from the
podcast and the Fundamental News

1006
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:14,600
Program for free.
Still not enough?

1007
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,160
Then join the Mormon Renegade
Locals page by clicking the red

1008
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,400
join button.
And for $5 a month you can have

1009
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,280
access to podcast transcripts,
Renegade exclusives, as well as

1010
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,800
weekly live stream show with the
host Dave Sanders.

1011
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:35,480
Click the link in this episode's
show Notes Today the Church made

1012
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,360
the change in wording to the.
Introduction Book of Mormon To

1013
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,800
remove the assumption, which
inserted into the Book of Mormon

1014
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,280
introduction in the 1920s and
not part of the original text,

1015
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,920
that all of the inhabitants, the
Americans were exclusive to.

1016
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,360
Sentence of Lehigh.
This had been that generally

1017
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,400
held belief from the time the
Church was restored.

1018
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,040
And why wouldn't it be?
It was most information anybody

1019
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,280
had about ancient America.
This chain makes the Book of

1020
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,720
Mormon introduction compatible
with current DNA evidence and

1021
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,520
acknowledges the fact that
Lehigh's group likely

1022
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,800
intermingled with the native
inhabitants of the American

1023
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,080
continents based upon current
knowledge of the DNA composition

1024
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,240
of the inhabitants of the New
World.

1025
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,040
There is substantial scientific
evidence of habitation in

1026
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,960
Americas for thousands of years
prior to Lehigh's arrival.

1027
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,320
If Lehigh had any descendants
among.

1028
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:30,440
Amerindians.
Then after 2600 years, all

1029
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,560
Amerindians would share Lehigh
as an ancestor, even though his

1030
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:37,400
DNA didn't survive.
Even if as is.

1031
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,640
Probable the Lehigh group was a
small drop in a larger

1032
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:43,800
population ocean of pre
Columbian inhabitants.

1033
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,080
Lehigh would have been an
ancestor of virtually all modern

1034
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,760
day Amerindians.
If any of his descendants

1035
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:53,840
married into the existing New
World population, that's just

1036
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:59,520
genealogy at work.
So oh, I love this.

1037
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:05,640
I wish everybody could see this
photograph on this slide.

1038
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,640
They they can get rumble, they
can go to.

1039
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:08,760
Rumble.
They can see it.

1040
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:16,080
I the Olmec which most Latter
Day St. scholars associate with

1041
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:21,720
Jaredite civilization because
their dates coincide exactly the

1042
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,400
the Olmec ancient American
civilization predates the Maya.

1043
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,160
They're the.
Progenitors.

1044
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,600
And they're this.
The capital of their culture was

1045
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:37,640
in southern Mexico.
This and and.

1046
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,280
They we have very little of what
they wrote, almost nothing.

1047
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,360
But we do have much of their
artwork that remains.

1048
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:46,560
You know those giant heads that
you see pictures of?

1049
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:51,800
All right, Those are the Olmec.
This is a mask, a stone mask, a

1050
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:59,760
Jadeite made of Jadeite,
depicting a very accurate Olmec

1051
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:07,120
slash Jaredite face.
It's gorgeous and it's very,

1052
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:08,240
very accurate.
I mean, you could.

1053
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,840
It's like you're staring at the
person and they are clearly

1054
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,080
Asian.
Yeah, I love that.

1055
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:19,680
According to the.
Book of Mormon, I'm.

1056
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,280
This is Wikipedia again.
The Jaredites were a group of

1057
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,840
people that left the Old World
after the fall of the Tower of

1058
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,480
Babel.
Some Mormon researchers believe

1059
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,960
that Jaredite, survivors of the
war that destroyed their

1060
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,840
civilization as described in the
Book of Eder, could be ancestors

1061
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,200
to some Native Americans.
John Sorensen was saying that in

1062
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,160
90.
Two, some writers theorized that

1063
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,520
American Indians received their
Asiatic genetic heritage from

1064
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,400
the Jaredites.
Interesting.

1065
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:51,120
That's a.
Nibbly taught.

1066
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,280
In 1988 and on the slide I have
the sources there.

1067
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,400
This is what Kim Peterson
personally.

1068
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,520
Believes.
That when we say that Native

1069
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,800
Americans.
Predominantly are Asian in terms

1070
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,520
of their DNA.
That's a reflection of Jaredite

1071
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,680
ancestry.
Interesting.

1072
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,920
OK.
And I'll tell you partly why I

1073
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,400
believe.
That partly because of this.

1074
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,560
Mask.
And other artwork like that,

1075
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:22,040
that the Olmec, whose phrenology
parallels that of the Jaredites

1076
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:28,880
almost exactly, were clearly
Asian, I mean.

1077
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,120
Judging judging by this.
Mask and the rest of the

1078
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,160
artwork.
So not only does their DNA point

1079
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:40,000
that out, but their their
physical aspects also are

1080
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,880
obviously Asian.
No, no.

1081
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:44,200
That mask is.
So beautiful.

1082
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,280
Let.
Me finish this thought real

1083
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,040
quick and where did the?
Jaredex come.

1084
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:53,200
From.
They were at the Tower of Babel.

1085
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,320
They prayed that they could stay
together and keep their language

1086
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:57,680
unified.
And then what did they do?

1087
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,600
They went.
East.

1088
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,000
OK.
And the Tower of Babel

1089
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,560
presumably was.
Near Turkey.

1090
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,360
You go east from Turkey.
Where he headed?

1091
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,520
China, That's right.
Into Asia.

1092
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,640
East Asia.
And they were probably not the

1093
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,000
only people to do that right?
And.

1094
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,760
And who knows, they probably had
people.

1095
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:27,560
Sorry, they probably had people.
That were with them, that stayed

1096
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,279
in Asia along the way while they
continued on across the Pacific.

1097
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,319
OK, what were you gonna say?
So there are.

1098
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:39,160
Pictures of Olmec heads that
don't necessarily look like that

1099
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,080
mask, right?
Well, they're a bit distorted.

1100
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,359
They're a bit fatter.
I mean, they're just big fat

1101
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:46,359
heads.
And you know, 'cause as I looked

1102
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:47,160
at those.
Heads.

1103
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,880
I was like, maybe more Pacific
Islanders, right?

1104
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:52,600
Well, which which guess?
And.

1105
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,319
And guess what?
The DNA of Pacific Islanders is?

1106
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:56,760
Asian.
Asian.

1107
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:58,479
Right.
Yeah.

1108
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,000
So that so that genetic.
Same genetic material would run

1109
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,760
right through that, right?
This mask.

1110
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,600
Is stunning.
I still when I I just stare at

1111
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,040
it and go that it's like they're
standing right in front of me.

1112
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:14,359
It's crazy.
Genetic diversity and

1113
01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:15,920
population.
Structure in the American

1114
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,160
landmass is also measured using.
Autosomal.

1115
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,240
ATDNA microsatellite markers,
markers, genotypes sampled from

1116
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,240
North, Central, and South
America and analyze against

1117
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,600
similar data available from
other indigenous populations

1118
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,120
worldwide.
The indigenous American

1119
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:36,200
population show a lesser genetic
diversity than populations from

1120
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,200
other continental regions, just
like we saw on that map.

1121
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,640
It's kind of a homogeneous.
Thing.

1122
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,479
Now, is that because they were
the only people there

1123
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,240
predominantly or is that because
of genetic bottlenecking?

1124
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:50,880
All right, it could.
Be some of both.

1125
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,080
While their overall strongest
affinity for the other

1126
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:58,800
populations is observed, for
East Asian people, observed is a

1127
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:02,680
decrease in genetic diversity as
geographic distance from the

1128
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,280
Bering Strait occurs, as well as
a decrease in genetic

1129
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,840
similarities to Siberian
populations from Alaska.

1130
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:12,040
So the further South you go in
the American continent, the more

1131
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,000
homogeneous it looks and the
more different they are from the

1132
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,680
Siberian DNA, the overall
pattern.

1133
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,080
Suggests that the.
Americas were colonized by a

1134
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,320
small number.
I love this by a small number of

1135
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:29,720
individuals, an effective size
of about 70, which grew by

1136
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:34,040
orders many orders of magnitude
over 800 to 1000 years.

1137
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:42,520
How many?
How many?

1138
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:46,000
Barges.
Did the brother of Jared make

1139
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,480
shining stones for 16 like it
would be 16?

1140
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:51,320
Stones for 8 barges.
Right, right.

1141
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:52,640
Yeah.
Yeah.

1142
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,760
And so that would.
Yeah, That good #70 people.

1143
01:10:56,480 --> 01:10:57,840
Yeah.
Isn't that crazy?

1144
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,680
Isn't that crazy?
And they had two, and they had

1145
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:05,520
2000 years to fill the continent
before Lehi showed up.

1146
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,680
And then another 2000 years
after that.

1147
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:12,440
According to a study from 2012,
indigenous Americans descend

1148
01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:18,600
from at least three main migrant
waves from East Asia.

1149
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,560
Most of it is.
Traced back to a single

1150
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,040
ancestral.
Population called first

1151
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,120
Americans.
However, those who speak inward

1152
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,640
languages from the Arctic
inherited almost half of their

1153
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,160
ancestry from the 2nd East Asian
migrant wave, and those who

1154
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:36,920
speak Nadina inherited a tenth
of their ancestry from the third

1155
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,320
migrant wave.
The initial selling of the

1156
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,040
Americans was followed by a
rapid expansion southwards along

1157
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,200
the West Coast with little gene.
Flow later.

1158
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,200
Especially in South America.
Here's what that looks like.

1159
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:50,720
So this is that.
Same map we were.

1160
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:55,760
Looking at before Only only it's
only showing the Native American

1161
01:11:55,760 --> 01:12:01,040
DNA haplogroups.
And this the purple.

1162
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:07,160
Is haplogroup Q.
And as you can see, as they were

1163
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,960
saying, as you proceed southward
along the coast, you see that it

1164
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,240
just gets more and more purple,
right?

1165
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:17,000
I hear the interesting.
Thing the yellow color

1166
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:23,320
represents haplogroup C, which
never really goes into the

1167
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,480
southern US, Central America and
South America.

1168
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,160
What this shows me, and I've
read other articles that

1169
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:35,920
indicate that this Haplogroup Q
didn't expand northward, extreme

1170
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,760
northward at all.
Meaning that it's quite possible

1171
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,400
that they didn't go through
Beringia, the Bering Strait, but

1172
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,040
that they actually it was a
trans Pacific crossing, a

1173
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,040
transoceanic crossing.
It would have to be Pacific

1174
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,840
because they were Asian, right?
That brought them to the.

1175
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,920
United States, and they spread.
Southward and northward.

1176
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:58,480
And if I when I look at that
map, that's.

1177
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:01,200
What I see right?
And what does it and what?

1178
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,800
Does that describe?
That describes the path of the

1179
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,880
Jaredites.
OK 'cause?

1180
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,280
Yeah.
'Cause they went east.

1181
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,520
Which would have took them
through China.

1182
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:12,760
They would have hit the Pacific
at.

1183
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:16,000
Some point.
And made that journey across.

1184
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,400
That's right.
And landed.

1185
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:21,960
And if the OLMEC?
The the center, the heart of

1186
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,800
civilization was southern
Mexico, just north of.

1187
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,880
The Yucatan where their final.
Battle occurred.

1188
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,800
That's presumably where they
might have landed on the West

1189
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,520
Coast, southern Mexico.
Anyway, I I think it's beautiful

1190
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,400
now regarding these three waves.
Haplogroup Q.

1191
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,160
Chronologically.
Is the latest, so they would be

1192
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:49,000
the latest population to enter
the Americas according.

1193
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,560
And now this is going to go.
Strictly according to LDS

1194
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,640
teachings, what was the?
Previous group that.

1195
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:58,240
Inhabited the Americas prior to
the Jaredites would have been

1196
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,440
the Mulekites, right?
No, the Mulekites came.

1197
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,640
Just about the same time that
Lehites did.

1198
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,800
OK, OK, Paulo, Jerusalem.
What group inhabited the

1199
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:12,040
Americas according to LDS
teachings, before the Jaredites?

1200
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:16,200
Adam and his posterity, right, I
was gonna say.

1201
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:17,960
Adam and Eve, right?
That's that's it.

1202
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,120
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.

1203
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:26,360
Now before that they're going.
Back to pre Adamites.

1204
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,880
The Clovis people, the Cavemen,
right.

1205
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,160
Those go back 12 to 18,000
years.

1206
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:39,880
In Kent Peterson's view, they
are unrelated, even though I'll.

1207
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,840
Put that on pause.
And that there was.

1208
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,560
The the last.
Extinction event on record,

1209
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:52,960
according to archaeologists,
happened at 12,000 BC, right?

1210
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:55,000
At the end of the Ice Age?
Which?

1211
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,920
Did, which destroyed many
species like woolly mammoth,

1212
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,840
Saber tooth, tiger.
And my opinion is it probably

1213
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,880
did away with Cavemen, but
Darwinians have to believe that

1214
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:10,160
they somehow survived and went
on And so they're trying to make

1215
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:14,680
this connection between that
prehistoric DNA with our ancient

1216
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:18,120
DNA of the Jaredites and and the
posterity of Adam.

1217
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,320
Well, and now I think I.
Think even now Clovis first is

1218
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,880
under some duress, right?
I mean, things keep getting a

1219
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,920
little bit older the more we
look.

1220
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:31,440
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.

1221
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:34,160
Well.
We can talk about pre Adamites

1222
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:38,480
all day long and what and and
some of the things that implies.

1223
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,120
Why would we be?
Surprised that.

1224
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,960
Other humanoids would have
similar DNA to Adam, Adam Adam

1225
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:46,280
was not.
Built from scratch.

1226
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:49,560
He was brought from another
world and and our.

1227
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,000
Our our humanoid.
Species was created in the image

1228
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,000
and glory of God, so it's not
like the DNA would get

1229
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,800
reinvented every single time or
yeah.

1230
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,680
And if, if.
There's preadomites and some of

1231
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:04,880
Adam's seed mixes with their
seed.

1232
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:08,720
I well, I've seen that's.
That's another possibility, one

1233
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,560
that I don't believe in.
And I believe that the Earth was

1234
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:15,800
void and without form when Adam
was placed upon it because it

1235
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:20,560
had been erased by the
extinction, the extinction event

1236
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:24,560
of the 12,000 BC.
To be prepared for this last

1237
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,440
creation that would fill the
measure of its creation, as

1238
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:31,600
opposed to previous worlds on
the earth that did not fill the

1239
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,760
measure of their creation and
were destroyed to be made over

1240
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,760
again, ultimately in preparation
for this great and last

1241
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,320
dispensation.
OK.

1242
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,360
For everybody out there, who?
Right now is typing me a hot

1243
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:48,240
e-mail telling me how badly I
suck for just throwing ideas

1244
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:49,760
against the wall.
Just chill out.

1245
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,320
We're just talking some stuff
here.

1246
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,080
This for me.
This is the fun part.

1247
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:55,520
Yeah, the, the, I mean the
stuff.

1248
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,360
That we.
Know is interesting, but the

1249
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,080
stuff that we don't know but
that we do have significant

1250
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,520
clues about, like this map that
blows my mind.

1251
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:08,240
I love that stuff.
And you see the purple spot over

1252
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,240
in northern Russia.
I mean could.

1253
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,840
That be a faction of the.
Jaredites that chose not to go

1254
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:20,280
across the Pacific, That's why
their DNA, the Q haplogroup, you

1255
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:21,720
know, remains there.
That's.

1256
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:23,920
I love that.
Love that stuff.

1257
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:27,200
OK, so here's the.
World map again.

1258
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:28,960
Showing all of that.
Yeah.

1259
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:30,400
I'm sorry, can you go back to
that last?

1260
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,520
Slide for me real quick 'cause I
I got a couple observations

1261
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,080
here.
I wanna spit at you real quick,

1262
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,960
so my.
My thought is.

1263
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:46,760
If there was a if there was a
massive flux of migration from

1264
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:51,320
the one purple area to the
Americas, why don't we see some

1265
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:55,040
sort of trail that goes through
there, right I.

1266
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:56,080
Can't imagine.
That.

1267
01:17:56,440 --> 01:18:01,520
These folks would be making that
trek in a couple of days, right?

1268
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,840
I mean.
Well, you what we have to take.

1269
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,640
Into account.
The only population groups they

1270
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,960
studied are where you see those
black dots.

1271
01:18:11,480 --> 01:18:14,080
OK, but for one.
Reason, so 'cause they're.

1272
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,280
They didn't study population
groups in those intervening

1273
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:18,760
areas, perhaps, if in fact they
crossed.

1274
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:19,320
Over.
By the.

1275
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,520
Peninsula by the Korean
Peninsula.

1276
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:23,400
They don't have any studies
right there.

1277
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:28,840
Number two, we're talking about
a distance of.

1278
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:35,280
Time.
Of 4500 years, so dilute more So

1279
01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:38,400
who knows what could have
happened in the meantime too to

1280
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,240
release that you brought.
Up something else and I'm sorry

1281
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,400
I keep I keep asking questions
here so I'm looking I love your

1282
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:47,120
questions I I'm.
Looking at this map.

1283
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,560
And I'm.
I'm seeing where.

1284
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,040
All the black dots are and you
say that's where they took

1285
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,800
samples from the the studied
populations.

1286
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,160
Is what it says on the key down
at the lower right?

1287
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:00,920
Well, how?
How then if?

1288
01:19:01,440 --> 01:19:04,200
And forgive me, this is one of
those things that I think is

1289
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,960
kind of important to to figure
out.

1290
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,080
So let's just look down there in
South America, right.

1291
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:14,840
They got a cluster almost and
South in a cluster up in the

1292
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:17,880
northeast, and then the entire
West side.

1293
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:20,920
They just make the assumption
then that it matches.

1294
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:23,320
That's gonna match what they
sampled.

1295
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,600
Yeah, connecting the dots.
Coloring in the spaces, you

1296
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,320
know, right?
I I guess, yeah.

1297
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:31,880
I, I, I But at the very end I'm
gonna show you something else.

1298
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,520
That'll kind of blow at least
one hole in that.

1299
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:35,920
OK.
All right.

1300
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:38,000
This is the science isn't
perfect.

1301
01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:41,440
The science isn't perfect.
The science isn't finished, but

1302
01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:46,560
what we do know is pretty cool.
At the very least, it's a good

1303
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:48,080
beginning.
Yeah.

1304
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,800
All good questions.
All right.

1305
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:56,080
So here we have the.
The the world map of all known

1306
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,960
haplogroup types, including the
queues.

1307
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:06,480
And there's the CSA much earlier
haplogroup, and we see some of

1308
01:20:06,480 --> 01:20:08,320
the queues up where it showed on
the other map.

1309
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:10,520
Mm hmm.
And over here near.

1310
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:15,680
Turkey.
What by the Caspian Sea, that's,

1311
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:18,320
Yeah.
Well, remember when they left

1312
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:23,760
from Turkey, they built barges
to cross an inner sea, which

1313
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:27,320
could have been the black or the
Caspian, right, the line.

1314
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:28,440
And so there's.
Some of your.

1315
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:30,320
Tracings of where they were,
right?

1316
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,360
Yep.
Very interesting stuff to me.

1317
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,680
Asians.
So let's pause here just for a

1318
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,560
second.
So the the primary issue that

1319
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,360
has caused many people to lose
their testimony of the Book of

1320
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:48,120
Mormon and forsake the faith.
And I've said this before,

1321
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,960
people who who don't like being
Latter Day Saints and who want

1322
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,560
to leave, I don't.
Have any I mean.

1323
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,440
Not everybody has to be a
Mormon, right?

1324
01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:00,440
And if.
It's not your thing.

1325
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:04,960
You don't need any excuse for me
to leave the faith, and I hope

1326
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,520
we'll all still be friends and
all that sort of thing.

1327
01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:15,000
But the thing that that breaks
my heart are people who love

1328
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,000
being Latter Day Saints or
Mormons.

1329
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:22,120
Whatever you want to.
Call us and who?

1330
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:30,720
Who with great sorrow.
Divorce themselves from a faith

1331
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:34,920
that they love because of a
supposed fact.

1332
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:38,680
And it's for that reason that.
I.

1333
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:41,560
Among others that I love to
engage in this stuff, to give

1334
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,840
people at least the other side
of the story.

1335
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:52,680
So the assumption is because the
vast majority of Native American

1336
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:57,600
DNA is Asian and not Middle
Eastern, the Book of Mormon is

1337
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,320
false, OK?
What we've demonstrated.

1338
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:04,720
Number one is the Book of Mormon
itself has never taught that.

1339
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:12,120
What the Book of Mormon teaches
directly, not tangentially, is

1340
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:15,880
that there was another race that
preceded the Lehighs by 2500

1341
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:18,280
years.
Who came?

1342
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:24,040
From the east, we know that.
And the archaeological remains

1343
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:29,680
of whom, if they are the Olmec,
indicate that they're Asian, so.

1344
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,320
That flips the whole argument.
The what?

1345
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,760
The DNA Native American DNA
proves is the Book of Mormon is

1346
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:40,160
true.
Nice 'cause it shows the

1347
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,680
Jaredites were genuine.
And they had come from the east,

1348
01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:47,000
right, Right.
And then and then to understand.

1349
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,320
Why we don't find even a single?
Semitic DNA.

1350
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,360
There you have to understand
number one, they were from

1351
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,080
Manasseh, at least half their
DNA.

1352
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,840
Came from.
An Egyptian, possibly black

1353
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,920
mother, so it wouldn't look it.
Wouldn't look like.

1354
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,640
Jewish DNA in any case.
And then we have pop genetic

1355
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:10,280
drift dilution and bottleneck
some of the worst.

1356
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,680
Examples in history.
We see in Native America, right?

1357
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,680
So.
My dear friends who love being a

1358
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:24,200
lottery St. who lose sleep over
this please sleep well, right?

1359
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:26,680
The book of.
Orbit is accurate.

1360
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:29,520
And that's.
And I'm grateful.

1361
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,040
You know, I'm grateful that
Sutherton and Murphy did these

1362
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:34,800
studies.
I love.

1363
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:38,080
I mean, their studies were only
confirming what we're seeing on

1364
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:42,880
this map, that the American
population was homogeneous,

1365
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:46,440
which also brings to mind a
book, more of a scripture, that

1366
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,400
the Lord has preserved this
promised land.

1367
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaking of the Western
Hemisphere.

1368
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,320
And you look in this map, or
better yet, you look at this

1369
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:56,080
map, you can see what he was
talking about.

1370
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:58,440
Yeah.
Where there are all kinds of

1371
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:03,680
people traversing the Old World,
the New World, we see basically

1372
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,760
one group of people.
It wasn't nearly as acclaimed as

1373
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:10,480
the Old World.
It's kind of interesting in that

1374
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:15,920
perspective, you know, and and.
I I think this is one of those

1375
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:24,160
things where where we need to
really take a step back and

1376
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:29,960
understand the difference
between exegesis and I said

1377
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:35,880
Jesus, right, what we read into
the scripture versus what it

1378
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,880
really says, yes, we don't
think.

1379
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:40,920
About the book.
Of Mormon in those terms and we

1380
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,560
really should.
And the and the other thing.

1381
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:48,080
That, I will say, is that we
all.

1382
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:49,920
Come up with hypothesis.
Right.

1383
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,160
And most of them aren't even
stupid hypothesis.

1384
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,760
They're just they're they're
just the straightest line and

1385
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,720
and OK this this makes the most
sense and here they are right

1386
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:06,920
and sometimes what these studies
can do right even though I think

1387
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:11,120
in the case of of Sutherton and
the the other guy I'm blanking

1388
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,920
on his name Murphy, even though
I disagree.

1389
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:15,920
With their.
What?

1390
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:22,960
What this data means, right, It
it should give us an opportunity

1391
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:29,280
to pause and reflect and say,
OK, So what is it that I read

1392
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,760
into the scripture versus what
the Scripture actually tells me?

1393
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:34,560
And.
And there's.

1394
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,800
Certain things that.
We as as Mormons all know,

1395
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:43,200
right, For the most part.
And those.

1396
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:46,160
Things we know.
Everything else I think we have

1397
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:49,040
to start getting real
comfortable with calling an idea

1398
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:53,520
right and and the things that
are confirmed to you by the

1399
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:57,240
Spirit, go with those.
Everything.

1400
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:02,480
Else you you may want to make
sure that you're not tying your

1401
01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:07,560
faith to an unstable anchor.
Amen.

1402
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:09,000
Well said.
That's exactly.

1403
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,080
True and.
And Speaking of Murphy and

1404
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:17,280
Southington's work, I personally
bear no grudge against them

1405
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,800
personally, and they seem like
really likable people and

1406
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:26,800
sincere people and the.
Scientific.

1407
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:29,560
Results of their investigations.
I don't disagree with that

1408
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,640
either.
I mean it's I agree and it makes

1409
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,480
sense to me now from a more
informed viewpoint of Native

1410
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:39,600
American archaeology and
anthropology and history that

1411
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:41,400
yeah, the majority of them are
Asian.

1412
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:43,000
I don't have a problem with that
at all.

1413
01:26:43,480 --> 01:26:46,920
And that actually fits better
with the Book of Mormon text

1414
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:49,000
that what may have been
previously believed.

1415
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:49,840
Right.
Right.

1416
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:51,600
What I take issue?
With.

1417
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,040
Is the premise of their study mm
hmm that.

1418
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:59,840
We would find.
Significant remnants of of

1419
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,960
Semitic Israelite DNA amongst
the Native American populations

1420
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,640
we discussed scientifically.
Why, That's probably never going

1421
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,800
to happen, right?
Because the population.

1422
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:12,400
The.
The Lehigh population was a drop

1423
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,080
in this bucket.
Yeah.

1424
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,640
And that's that's without
bottleneck, population issues

1425
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:20,640
with bottleneck and genetic
drift that that would be an

1426
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:25,160
impossibility.
And so yeah, those are the only

1427
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:29,720
issues that I have.
So and and I've said this

1428
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:31,560
already, but I'm grateful for
what they did.

1429
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,160
I mean not to other people's
testimonies, but.

1430
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,680
But that they.
Brought this topic to light that

1431
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,840
we could learn more and it
helped me understand better and

1432
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:44,440
learn more about the Book of
Mormon and pre Book of Mormon

1433
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:48,160
time for that matter.
Which brings us to the secondary

1434
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,440
issue of Book of.
Mormon DNA.

1435
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,320
And that is the DNA claim of Rod
Meldrum.

1436
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:57,960
Who I also like.
I like to meet him someday.

1437
01:27:57,960 --> 01:27:59,960
Just, hey, we're Facebook
friends though.

1438
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:02,080
He's a great guy.
He's a great.

1439
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,080
I believe that I.
Had him on here a couple weeks

1440
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,960
ago.
And he was absolutely a blast to

1441
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:09,040
have on.
I would do.

1442
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:10,920
I I listen to that and he
sounds.

1443
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:14,080
So fun he is, he has an he has
an infectious laugh.

1444
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:15,680
It just sounds like a such a
good guy.

1445
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:19,680
So.
If you look at this diagram

1446
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:21,600
here, this is not one that I
made.

1447
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:26,000
This is taken off if you go to
Wikipedia and search for

1448
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,720
haplogroup X.
This is what you.

1449
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:33,200
Find.
And when you look at this and

1450
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:36,440
you realize.
What this is saying you can

1451
01:28:36,440 --> 01:28:40,840
absolutely understand why Maude
or why Rod Meldrum is out of his

1452
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:46,400
mind, excited about this.
Haplogroup.

1453
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:52,680
X which is after Q.
This is mitochondrial DNA from

1454
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,400
the.
Mother side showing that they

1455
01:28:55,400 --> 01:29:00,160
were haplogroup X.
Guess where?

1456
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:04,440
The Middle East and in the Great
Lakes region?

1457
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:12,360
Not only would that substantiate
Book of Mormon claims, it would

1458
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:20,520
substantiate Heartlander claims.
Sadly, he left something out.

1459
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:26,560
In his in his first quote.
He's talking about the SUB

1460
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:30,520
Haplogroup X2 and then he leaves
those ellipses. dot dot dot.

1461
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,960
That's the problem in the third
paragraph.

1462
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,960
This is what he left out.
I have it bold the the

1463
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:44,000
phylogenography of subclays of
haplogroup X suggests that the

1464
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,880
Near East is the likely
geographical source for the

1465
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:51,480
spread of sub haplogroup X2 in
the Great Lakes regions, and the

1466
01:29:51,480 --> 01:29:55,960
associated population dispersal
occurred around or after the

1467
01:29:55,960 --> 01:30:01,400
Last glacial Maximum when the
climate ameliorated or improved.

1468
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:05,560
So what he left out is stating
that that.

1469
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,960
Haplogroup X dates.
To 18,000.

1470
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:18,800
Years ago Final paragraph.
So it is true that the American

1471
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,760
subgroup of X2 is related to the
Middle East, but it is also

1472
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:23,400
clear.
That the.

1473
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:27,800
American Group broke off from
that Middle East group around

1474
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:31,760
the time of the last glacial
maxim, the point where the last

1475
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:35,880
ice ages glaciers reached their
furthest southern extent.

1476
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,400
About. 18,000 years ago.
This clearly means that the X2

1477
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:45,800
haplogroup is unrelated
completely to Lehigh's group.

1478
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:50,000
How can a group from 18,000
years ago be related to a group

1479
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:53,560
from 2600 years ago?
Sure, Let let me.

1480
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:59,800
Ask you this and and again I'm
gonna get blamed for questioning

1481
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:04,800
the science, but Hooray, how?
How certain?

1482
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,520
Are we that we?
Can date this accurately.

1483
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,400
I I suppose there are always
questions.

1484
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:16,520
In the dating.
Their.

1485
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,200
Their.
Carbon dating is one way.

1486
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:23,320
The genetic dating is done by by
turning the clock backwards.

1487
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:29,880
You can these mutations that I
that identify one haplogroup

1488
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:34,120
from the other happen.
At intervals that can.

1489
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,480
Be calculated back in time.
Is it foolproof 100%?

1490
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:44,600
Nobody can say.
But it has proved thus far quite

1491
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:48,280
accurate.
So I don't.

1492
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:49,920
I don't.
I don't think it's to answer

1493
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,880
your question.
I don't think it's possible to

1494
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:55,600
answer it at a hundred 100% sure
that it's not percent.

1495
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:57,920
Accurate.
But I don't have reason

1496
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,840
necessarily to doubt it at this
point, OK.

1497
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:06,720
OK, so the science is still
unsettled for the most it

1498
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:08,760
sounds.
I I wouldn't say it's unsettled.

1499
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:12,200
I would say it's the best we
have and it's fairly it's

1500
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,600
reliable enough that we continue
to utilize it.

1501
01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:22,800
So, and now if if the difference
in time was 1000 years or 2000

1502
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:28,240
years, I would be more inclined
to accept this Rod's claim.

1503
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,840
But the fact that the difference
between Lehigh and this

1504
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:37,440
haplogroup X2 is 16,000 years.
I mean.

1505
01:32:37,440 --> 01:32:40,880
That's not even close.
So yeah.

1506
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:42,120
That's a harder.
Thing to say.

1507
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:44,520
Still interesting.
Still interesting, though.

1508
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,960
Yeah.
Who were this pop?

1509
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,000
Who wasn't?
Clovis pre Clovis population.

1510
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,360
Why were they at opposite sides
of the world?

1511
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:54,560
Who would want to know that,
right?

1512
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:58,040
Yeah.
So we've.

1513
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:01,040
We've told you about the main.
Haplogroups that we know about

1514
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,080
and what and what science
currently knows about them.

1515
01:33:04,440 --> 01:33:08,000
Recently there have been two
what we call outliers.

1516
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:13,320
DNA outliers in ancient America.
In November 2013, Nature

1517
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:17,880
published a discovery on an UPO
paleolithic Siberian site

1518
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:23,040
linking western Eurasians.
So that would be like around

1519
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:27,080
Turkey and that sort of thing in
the Middle East and Europe to

1520
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,520
the indigenous Native American
population.

1521
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:36,760
What so they could be that
Native Americans and Western

1522
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:38,600
Eurasia.
Let's see, According to the

1523
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:41,560
study, the genome sequence
showed distinct genetic markers

1524
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:44,600
that are unique to the
indigenous Native Americans and

1525
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:49,360
western Eurasia, but with no but
but with no relation to East

1526
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:51,920
Asians.
The study indicates that between

1527
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:56,280
14 and 38% of Native American
ancestry may originate through

1528
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:59,480
this gene flow.
So now this.

1529
01:33:59,480 --> 01:34:01,000
This upsets the apple cart
again.

1530
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:03,800
Is this?
What we've been looking.

1531
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:07,600
For in terms of Middle Eastern
DNA, our findings are

1532
01:34:07,600 --> 01:34:10,480
significant on 2 levels.
First, it shows that Upper

1533
01:34:10,480 --> 01:34:14,400
Paleolithic Siberians came from
a cosmopolan population of early

1534
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:17,800
modern humans that spread out of
Africa to Europe to Central and

1535
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:22,560
South Asia.
Second, Paleo Indian skeletons

1536
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:25,600
like bull woman with the
phenotype traits atypical of

1537
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:28,680
modern day indigenous Americans,
can be explained as having a

1538
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:31,880
direct historical connection to
Upper Paleolithic Siberia.

1539
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:35,480
So there's an outlier group, and
it doesn't give us a good date,

1540
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,480
but well, that's interesting.
Study indicates that 14 to 38%

1541
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:42,680
of Native American ancestry may
originate through that gene

1542
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:43,280
flow.
Wow.

1543
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:45,880
Holy cow.
Go back to that one.

1544
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:47,880
One real quick, I got another
question here.

1545
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:51,840
Oh, the that one, right?
There this one here and it's in.

1546
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:55,880
That lower paragraph, where it
says first it shows that Upper

1547
01:34:55,880 --> 01:35:01,280
Paleolithic Siberians came from
a cosmopolitan population of

1548
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:04,360
early American humans, of early
modern humans.

1549
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:06,120
That.
Spread out of Africa to Europe,

1550
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:07,840
Central and South Asia?
Yeah.

1551
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,360
How would they know that?
I don't know.

1552
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,040
Are they?
Are they using the word?

1553
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:17,720
Cosmopolitan the same way we use
it, meaning civilized.

1554
01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:19,800
Civilized.
I So.

1555
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:22,160
We're talking about a
civilization, right?

1556
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:23,160
Yeah.
And I.

1557
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:28,040
Don't know how and I wish there.
Were more detail there, but is

1558
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,440
it because of the circumstances
of finding the remains of

1559
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:34,000
clothing and possessions?
And you know, who knows?

1560
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:35,320
That was my question.
What?

1561
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:35,880
What?
What's?

1562
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:42,200
Making them say that that this
was a cohesive societal.

1563
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:45,160
Unit so to.
Speak, that's a very good

1564
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:47,120
question.
I wish I had the answer for you.

1565
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:53,520
OK, this one's cool in 2020.
One very recent.

1566
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:58,720
South Americans share ancestry
with the ocean and populations

1567
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,360
that is not seen in
Mesoamericans or North

1568
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:03,920
Americans.
When I read that, I'm like, wow,

1569
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:05,320
things couldn't get more
confusing.

1570
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:11,720
There's a population and you can
see the color code, the dots,

1571
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:15,080
the, the burgundy and the red
dots, right?

1572
01:36:15,480 --> 01:36:17,040
What are?
Australians and.

1573
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:24,040
Indonesians doing in Central
South America, right of all the.

1574
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:27,040
Weird things well, Clint.
If you look.

1575
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:31,840
Like there's like one like way
up over by.

1576
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,960
India on the coast.
Right and.

1577
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:39,720
It's like OK.
So how in the hell and do do we

1578
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:43,480
have some sort of reference of
time on this?

1579
01:36:43,480 --> 01:36:46,520
Do we know how long this group
has been in these?

1580
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,440
I'm sorry, I don't.
I don't.

1581
01:36:48,480 --> 01:36:53,640
Have that, I'm sorry.
Isn't that isn't that

1582
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:54,240
interesting?
I mean.

1583
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,880
So clearly there I think is
happening in the world and in

1584
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,240
the Americas that the Book of
Mormon has absolutely no

1585
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:02,520
knowledge of.
Well, yeah, and.

1586
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,400
Now we start.
Talking about diffusion on a

1587
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,800
much larger scale, yeah, right.
Now we start.

1588
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:11,840
Talking about.
Diffusion happening in the

1589
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:16,400
Americas from all over, Yeah.
Yeah.

1590
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:20,960
Which and and this is a thing we
need to.

1591
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:22,520
Point out about the Book of
Mormon.

1592
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:28,600
The Book of Mormon is only.
Capable of telling us about the

1593
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:31,880
people around the authors,
right?

1594
01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:35,880
What Defi experienced What?
Lehi experienced what?

1595
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:38,440
Jacob what?
Alma experienced, right?

1596
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:42,280
What Mormon and Mirona
experienced, what Mahanrai

1597
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:45,040
experienced, what ether
experienced with.

1598
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:48,640
Some.
Very rare exceptions like.

1599
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:53,400
In 3rd Nephi.
When God tells them about the

1600
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:56,880
destructions to these other
cities, how else would they

1601
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,800
know?
You know they don't have drones,

1602
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:01,480
they don't have satellites.
How would they know?

1603
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,640
Because Jesus told them the
cities in the north were buried

1604
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:10,880
and this city was sunk, and and
Jerusalem was the city was swept

1605
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:13,800
out to the sea, you know those
sort of things.

1606
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:17,080
Because God himself was
explaining to the Nephites what

1607
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:19,840
happened to these other cities,
their destructions.

1608
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:22,440
That's otherwise they.
Wouldn't have known.

1609
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:24,360
That's an important thing for us
to remember.

1610
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:28,920
The Book of Mormon was not, is
not a history of the Americas.

1611
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,520
It's not a history.
Of the Native American.

1612
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:36,720
Peoples, it's not possible.
It's a 300 page book to do that.

1613
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:39,440
It's a history of Lehigh's
people.

1614
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:43,560
That's right, all.
Right, final.

1615
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:50,000
Photograph here or picture.
This is taken from.

1616
01:38:50,480 --> 01:38:56,400
A mural that was painted on the
the archaeological structures in

1617
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:59,240
Chichen Itza, the Mayan
population.

1618
01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:08,480
That's a little diverse, yeah.
You got some people who have

1619
01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:11,880
darker skin, others who have way
lighter skin.

1620
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:17,440
Yeah, so.
Just just so we thought we

1621
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,200
figured everything out.
I'm upsetting the applecart

1622
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:24,720
again.
So this is 1100 AD, so this is a

1623
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:29,920
good 700 years after the
destruction of the Nephites as

1624
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,000
accounted for in the Book of
Mormon.

1625
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:35,120
And here we have for whatever
reason.

1626
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:41,360
Different skin tones.
In in the in these Mayan murals,

1627
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:46,800
these paintings, and in each
case the lighter skinned people

1628
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:50,640
are subservient.
They're doing, you know, they're

1629
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:53,680
paddling the boats, they're
carrying the loads, they're

1630
01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:57,160
doing those sorts of things.
Isn't that crazy?

1631
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,360
And here's another mural from
that same structure in Chichen

1632
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:06,000
Itza.
Same thing.

1633
01:40:07,480 --> 01:40:08,640
Only in.
This case.

1634
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:13,600
The lighter skin people are
actually bound by or enslaved by

1635
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:18,840
the darker skin.
And only their faces.

1636
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:22,560
That would appear in some case
are not black, but the darker

1637
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:26,480
skin, which is a very recently
discovered thing that ancient

1638
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:30,360
mines before warfare, they would
cover themselves in black,

1639
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:33,480
right?
Which?

1640
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:35,800
Might have.
Relationships of the Scriptures

1641
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,800
referring to the.
The darkness and and.

1642
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:43,200
You know at this point the like.
We don't know what.

1643
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:48,200
This mural was right.
Was this propaganda for another

1644
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:51,520
group?
Was this mural trying to show a

1645
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:55,560
history?
Because the dates don't.

1646
01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:59,080
You couldn't look at the dates
and then pair that and say, Oh

1647
01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:01,240
well, they're telling the story
as it happened.

1648
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:05,680
No, this is, this is either
propaganda or this is the read

1649
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:07,360
their history.
Yes.

1650
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,120
So to read.
This this is a wall fresco on

1651
01:41:11,120 --> 01:41:14,800
the Temple of the Warriors in
Chichanita, Mexico, showing a

1652
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:17,680
major raid on a village near the
sea.

1653
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:21,800
Note that the Elite and Commoner
structures are being assaulted

1654
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:25,760
with both male and female
captives stripped and captured

1655
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:34,560
of the lighter skin tone.
Anyway, that's all I got, you

1656
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:36,560
all I have on that.
That's awesome.

1657
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:40,000
I.
I'm gonna try to to put a bow on

1658
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:42,600
this, so to speak, and you can
tell me if I'm off base here.

1659
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:46,360
After.
Looking at all of this.

1660
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:51,800
Right.
What we have is we have Lehigh

1661
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:53,040
seed coming.
To.

1662
01:41:53,080 --> 01:41:55,600
To the Americas, right?
Where, Wherever.

1663
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:58,600
Take your pick wherever.
You want to go north.

1664
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,760
Or South America and they.
Aren't.

1665
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:04,200
Alone.
When they show up, there's.

1666
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:07,960
People here, Yeah, there's a
wonderful article.

1667
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:11,160
I mean.
And then another.

1668
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:15,120
John Sorensen wrote a lengthy
oh, here it is.

1669
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:19,560
When Lehigh's party arrived in
the land, did they find others

1670
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,760
there?
And I give you the website

1671
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,760
that's a free download, and he
goes into all of the textual

1672
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:27,320
suggestions that they were not
alone.

1673
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,600
I mean, it mentions the obvious.
It teaches the Melekites are

1674
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:33,760
already there, and the Jaredites
have been there for 2500 years

1675
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:38,160
or 2000 years. 1900 years.
So that's a.

1676
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:42,400
That's a delightful.
Article And so they're they're.

1677
01:42:42,440 --> 01:42:45,880
Obviously not alone.
There's probably indigenous

1678
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:50,320
populations here, right?
Maybe even before the Jaredites?

1679
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:52,320
Possibly.
Possibly.

1680
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:54,920
You know what, Kim Peterson?
Thinks do you care what Kim

1681
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:59,680
Peterson thinks about that?
I I'm always care what Kim, if

1682
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:05,920
we believe that Noah's flood was
worldwide and you and I have

1683
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,320
talked about there is a
mechanism by which that could

1684
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:12,000
happen which would.
Sweep the land masses.

1685
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:14,480
Clean without leaving everything
subverged for every killing, all

1686
01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:19,120
the all the flora and fauna.
It would be a a massive

1687
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:23,800
worldwide tsunami triggered by
an asteroid.

1688
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:26,280
Impact.
Or the northern polar regions,

1689
01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:29,760
whatever.
In any case, if that were true,

1690
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:35,960
North America would have been
wiped clean of any previous

1691
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:39,680
inhabitants, which would have
been the Adamites, you know,

1692
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:40,880
the.
The.

1693
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:46,520
The sons and daughters and the
the the pre the offspring of

1694
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:51,320
Adam and Eve which is 1.
Reason there are a.

1695
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:55,720
Couple of differences between
the, the, the.

1696
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:58,760
Jaredite.
Migration to the New World and

1697
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:01,280
the Lehite migration to the New
World.

1698
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:06,800
The Jaredites had to build an
ark like Noah's.

1699
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:09,920
It was built just like Noaa's so
it could be submersible.

1700
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:13,160
And not only did they have to
bring seeds, they had to bring

1701
01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:17,280
all these animals with them and
they had to bring bees with

1702
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:18,880
them.
Why did they have to bring the

1703
01:44:18,880 --> 01:44:20,560
Deseret?
Why did that bring bees

1704
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:23,400
pollination?
And they also had to bring.

1705
01:44:23,400 --> 01:44:27,160
Fresh fish, freshwater.
Fish they had to bring with.

1706
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:31,320
Them, right?
Because if if what?

1707
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:35,240
I'm thinking is true, possibly
that the American continent had

1708
01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:37,720
been swept clean by this title
tsunami.

1709
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:41,480
It would have.
Any freshwater fish would have

1710
01:44:41,480 --> 01:44:45,640
been destroyed by the salinity
of the tsunami, and it would

1711
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:49,240
have swept the continent clean
of any bees, insects and other

1712
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:52,000
life forms.
So any and all of the life forms

1713
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:56,640
that we have indigenous to the
Americas today would have been

1714
01:44:56,640 --> 01:44:59,720
those very things that the
Jaredites would have, of

1715
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,320
necessity brought with them
bees.

1716
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:06,720
Drought and that sort of thing.
Has there been any research done

1717
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:10,480
on?
That to see if.

1718
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:12,840
If.
Certain fish or certain insects

1719
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:19,000
come from certain regions.
Yeah, Yeah, I.

1720
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:20,440
Don't know if that would be a
trick.

1721
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:22,160
But.
Anyway.

1722
01:45:22,440 --> 01:45:25,000
So so.
Lehigh seed gets dropped in here

1723
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:28,400
and.
Because they intermarry.

1724
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:33,120
With the the locals who are
already here, yeah, we expect

1725
01:45:33,120 --> 01:45:33,800
to.
See.

1726
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:39,400
Some sort of degradation?
If you will, I hate.

1727
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:41,960
Using that term that way, right,
it's not degradation, but.

1728
01:45:42,480 --> 01:45:44,360
A dilution of their a dilution.
Thank you.

1729
01:45:45,240 --> 01:45:49,160
A, a dilution of their gene pool
that way, taking into account

1730
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:52,640
also that I think we may have
been looking for the wrong

1731
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:56,200
thing, right as you included to
Lehigh.

1732
01:45:56,200 --> 01:45:57,480
'S not Jewish.
Right.

1733
01:45:57,480 --> 01:46:01,520
So we keep no Jewish DNA,
whatever that looks like,

1734
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:05,120
whatever that looked like back
or even Levite or even.

1735
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:09,160
Israelite, of all the and of all
the 12 tribes, Manasseh and

1736
01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:11,880
Ephraim are gonna be the most
distinct because of their

1737
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,320
because of Asanet, the
Egyptians, right?

1738
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:15,760
And so.
We're.

1739
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:18,480
We're looking we're we're
looking for the wrong thing to

1740
01:46:18,480 --> 01:46:23,080
begin with, right?
And then and then we.

1741
01:46:23,080 --> 01:46:27,800
Have all this this.
Intermarrying, going on now,

1742
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:29,800
having said.
That.

1743
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:35,240
If there is all this
intermarrying happening, then if

1744
01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:39,960
if there's even a a drop of
blood, so to speak, of of

1745
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:44,520
Lehigh's running in any of these
tribes, probably all of these

1746
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:48,440
tribes at this point, then
aren't they all considered

1747
01:46:48,440 --> 01:46:53,640
Lehigh seed at that point, right
genealogically speaking?

1748
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:57,160
I mean, you and I don't have any
of shark King Charlemagne's DNA

1749
01:46:57,160 --> 01:47:00,600
in US doesn't change the fact
that he's still our ancestor,

1750
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:03,080
right?
That's still that's still true,

1751
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:05,120
right?
DNADNA is.

1752
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:07,560
Not.
Necessarily ancestry, right,

1753
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:09,560
Right.
And so.

1754
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:14,440
It it feels to me almost like
just.

1755
01:47:14,440 --> 01:47:19,880
Looking for a smoking?
Gun in in DNA may not be a good

1756
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:22,200
way of saying it.
It could be good supporting

1757
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,160
evidence, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1758
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:26,800
But I don't think it could ever
be something where you could

1759
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,360
just say, OK, this rules out the
historicity of the Book of

1760
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:31,560
Mormon.
Now you know no if.

1761
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:34,960
If you, if you.
Wanted to play the naysayer.

1762
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:39,680
You could use that and certainly
people still do, but they're

1763
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:42,520
assuming the ignorance of the
people they're debating with,

1764
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:44,800
right?
You know that we that we don't

1765
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:47,200
know better, that we don't know
about bottleneck, that we don't

1766
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:51,480
know about genetic drift and
genetic dilution over time, that

1767
01:47:51,480 --> 01:47:56,000
we don't know about that stuff
or that we don't know that the

1768
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:59,320
Americas were completely, it
looks like they were completely

1769
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:04,360
populated by by people before
Lehigh ever thought of going

1770
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:07,200
there thousands of years and
that.

1771
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:10,040
And that Lehigh's little.
Party of however many it was

1772
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:15,960
about 20 maybe that, that that
that drop in a bucket, 20 people

1773
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,600
amongst 100 million, you'd never
find him again, right?

1774
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:21,800
Right.
Especially if especially if they

1775
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:25,920
were all killed to genocide.
Well, and and really you can

1776
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:28,560
think of.
Two massive bottlenecks within

1777
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:30,840
the Book of Mormon, just right
off the top of my head, right?

1778
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:35,640
There's probably some sort of
bottleneck when Christ comes

1779
01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:37,600
back, right?
Yeah, that's true.

1780
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:40,000
That's true.
That level of destruction.

1781
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:43,800
I can't imagine, 'cause it says
in the Book of Mormon that it it

1782
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,120
basically takes care of all the
wicked, right?

1783
01:48:46,440 --> 01:48:49,480
Like, done, right.
And that's why they have that

1784
01:48:49,480 --> 01:48:54,200
400 years of of just peace and
tranquility so well, at least

1785
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:56,520
100, at least 100 of them that
first. 100 you were great,

1786
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:00,480
right, right and and so.
Yeah, yeah, that's more

1787
01:49:00,480 --> 01:49:01,360
accurate.
You're right.

1788
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:05,520
But But anyway, so there's a
bottleneck that happens there.

1789
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:09,040
And then a few 100 years later,
there's another significant

1790
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,240
bottleneck.
Yeah, massive.

1791
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:13,800
In in that in that.
Genocide.

1792
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:20,680
So, so gosh, I feel like we just
went a long way to say, yeah, I

1793
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:24,400
wouldn't expect to see a smoking
gun one way or other alphabets.

1794
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:27,800
Well, I mean the truth.
Is, and it sounds like a weak

1795
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:32,680
answer is that in terms of DNA
evidence, there's not enough

1796
01:49:33,320 --> 01:49:37,200
information to to test one way
or the other for certain that

1797
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:41,000
DNA can't possibly answer that
question because we but we

1798
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:43,360
really, but it's so informative,
right?

1799
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:45,920
Because.
The other thing I'm thinking we

1800
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:49,200
don't know what what Lehi's DNA
would look like.

1801
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:54,880
We don't know what Ephrimite or
or Manasseh's DNA makeup would

1802
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:55,840
have looked.
Like, right.

1803
01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:59,080
So even if we did find it, we
wouldn't know what we were

1804
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:00,440
staring at.
True.

1805
01:50:00,440 --> 01:50:03,040
True.
Very true indeed.

1806
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,240
Well, I want a fascinating
study, though.

1807
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:10,200
DNA is quite a wonder, and the
fact that we can make any sense

1808
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:13,600
of it at all is endlessly.
Fascinating.

1809
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,400
And the further back in history
we go, the more interesting it

1810
01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:18,640
becomes to me.
Yeah, yeah.

1811
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:21,240
Who are these humans?
What are they doing here?

1812
01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:22,560
You know?
Well.

1813
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:23,880
And then?
And then it's all fascinating.

1814
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:25,080
Yeah.
And then you couple.

1815
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:27,720
That with the fact.
Of like you were just showing,

1816
01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:33,240
we got two sets of haplogroup X
clear across the the hemispheres

1817
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:35,840
from each other 18,000 years
ago.

1818
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:39,560
What the heck yeah.
Yeah, Clovis first doesn't.

1819
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,200
Seem to be a viable model much
anymore, now that things

1820
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:45,400
continue to get older, even
within America, right?

1821
01:50:45,440 --> 01:50:46,920
And so we.
We have all.

1822
01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:48,920
Of this data now that's coming
in.

1823
01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:54,800
And for I feel like for a long
time there was this idea through

1824
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:57,920
archaeology that that, hey,
we've got this stuff all figured

1825
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:02,240
out, right?
That that really was it, right?

1826
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:06,920
Like, we forget that archaeology
is like just over 100 years old,

1827
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:08,600
right?
The and.

1828
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:13,600
And within 50 to 75 years, most
of them went, Yep, we got human

1829
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:15,760
history figured out, right,
Right.

1830
01:51:16,240 --> 01:51:17,920
And.
And that doesn't seem to.

1831
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,320
Be the case.
Any longer, it's only getting

1832
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,560
it's only getting more and more
complicated.

1833
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:27,800
Yep, in one of our older in one
of our previous discussions.

1834
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,160
And I looked this up because I
kept finding articles about

1835
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:36,360
different species of humanoids,
you know, prior to the biblical.

1836
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:37,880
Well.
Prior to the biblical Adam,

1837
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,120
right.
The two most famous would be,

1838
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:46,000
well, I mean, there's Homo
sapien and then there's, Oh my

1839
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:47,200
gosh.
I completely glizzy.

1840
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:51,560
Denis Denisovian, right?
Neanderthal, right?

1841
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:54,440
Right.
Completely different.

1842
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:58,120
Species that at one point we
thought couldn't even interact

1843
01:51:58,120 --> 01:52:01,920
or or reproduce together, you
know, But now they think they

1844
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:06,120
kind of do.
But that those are only three of

1845
01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:16,000
23 known humanoid pre Adamite
speak humanoid species 2323.

1846
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:19,480
Different humanoid species.
What in the heck was going on?

1847
01:52:19,480 --> 01:52:21,480
Well, it was like this humanoid
party.

1848
01:52:21,480 --> 01:52:26,400
For. 300,000 years, OK, so.
I'm gonna make an admission now

1849
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:30,680
because some of my that some.
Of my my.

1850
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:33,760
Critics will like, so here,
here's your gift.

1851
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:35,360
For me, it's it's an early
Christmas.

1852
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:37,600
You get, you get to.
Use this on me.

1853
01:52:39,480 --> 01:52:41,080
Because of some.
Extenuating.

1854
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:43,040
Circumstances.
I'm not real.

1855
01:52:43,360 --> 01:52:46,320
My My genealogy is tough.
Yeah.

1856
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:49,120
So I thought it'd be fun to
take.

1857
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:52,520
One of those DNA tests?
Oh yeah.

1858
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:56,560
And I'll be damned if some.
Didn't come back, like,

1859
01:52:56,560 --> 01:53:00,760
literally, with like,
Neanderthal markers like, oh,

1860
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:04,840
you're awesome.
And I shared that with both

1861
01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:06,680
Amber.
And Tanya and they were like

1862
01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,000
that tracks.
That makes sense.

1863
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:13,320
That tracks, right?
That's awesome.

1864
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:15,440
But.
Yeah, I'm so.

1865
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:18,960
And and yeah, like I said, I
gave that just to my critics.

1866
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:20,360
There you go.
Have fun with that.

1867
01:53:20,360 --> 01:53:23,440
You can, you can post all the
the the stuff you want with

1868
01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:27,080
that, but that is so fun.
Yeah, but, but.

1869
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:33,960
And I want to say this.
Too we we think we got some good

1870
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:37,920
capabilities now, but if there's
anything that history has taught

1871
01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:42,000
us when it comes to this kind of
science is there's a good

1872
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:45,920
possibility somewhere in the
future, if we last that long,

1873
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:48,480
somebody might.
Develop.

1874
01:53:48,480 --> 01:53:51,520
Something else which completely
overturns all of these models.

1875
01:53:51,680 --> 01:53:53,080
Oh yeah.
I love that.

1876
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:56,000
Yeah.
You know, you know. 10-15 years

1877
01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,720
down the road someone could
have, you know make a discovery

1878
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:03,480
of like oh that completely
changes how we read all I I'm.

1879
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,160
I'm not only open to that, I
anticipate stuff like that.

1880
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:09,440
Yes, that's what keeps.
That's what keeps it interesting

1881
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:11,800
to me.
Yes, whenever anybody says.

1882
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:14,520
The science is settled.
I tend to be like, no, it's not.

1883
01:54:14,560 --> 01:54:15,840
That's the whole point of
science.

1884
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:18,400
It's never settled.
No, it's true.

1885
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:19,880
It's not science if it's
settled.

1886
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:23,800
Exactly, exactly.
Science is open-ended, yeah.

1887
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:26,600
Yeah, and and here's.
The other thing, I think this is

1888
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:30,240
one of the gifts of the
Restoration, right, is to do

1889
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:31,960
what you and I just sat down and
did.

1890
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:34,280
Do we know any of this for
certain, Ken?

1891
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:38,480
I mean, oh, it's all facts.
If you ask me, I'm telling you

1892
01:54:38,480 --> 01:54:45,040
it's all absolutely all
absolutely true baby, but but in

1893
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:47,280
all actuality taking.
Myself on it, yeah.

1894
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:52,080
In in all actuality.
I mean, we're making do with the

1895
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,080
best data that we have at the
moment, but this is the gift.

1896
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:58,600
I think this is one of the gifts
of the restoration, right?

1897
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:03,520
Is that we can sit down and
bounce these ideas around, but I

1898
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:06,760
think the most important thing
in doing that is, is remembering

1899
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:12,520
that until you've had some sort
of spiritual witness to some of

1900
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:13,560
these an.
Honest.

1901
01:55:13,560 --> 01:55:16,800
Spiritual witness.
They're just ideas, right?

1902
01:55:17,320 --> 01:55:19,520
And there's nothing wrong with
bouncing these.

1903
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:22,160
It's a.
Tradition, that is.

1904
01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:26,400
As Mormon as funeral potatoes,
if not older Joseph Smith,

1905
01:55:26,400 --> 01:55:28,880
That's what it was favorite.
Things to do, yes.

1906
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:35,280
What was the phrase that he used
to wow theologize to prove?

1907
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:38,080
Contraries, OK.
Yeah, that's what he called it.

1908
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:42,000
Yeah, Prove contraries.
And then he loved doing that.

1909
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:45,960
I mean, that's, or as a friend
of mine once said, if you're

1910
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:50,040
prepared enough to ask the right
question, the answer can't be

1911
01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:52,800
far behind.
So if we're not probing and if

1912
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:56,200
we're not pondering right,
that's a loaded word.

1913
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:59,520
If we're not doing our own best
thinking and seeking for these

1914
01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:04,800
answers, let us let us receive
truth from wherever, no matter.

1915
01:56:05,160 --> 01:56:06,960
Wherever.
It comes from from whence it

1916
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:09,320
comes.
That's what that is.

1917
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:11,680
You're right.
That's a great Mormon tradition

1918
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:13,960
stemming from Joseph Smith
himself.

1919
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:15,680
Yep.
Absolutely.

1920
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:17,640
So if we're asking.
The right questions.

1921
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:21,760
And if it and if it is God's
timing that we should receive

1922
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:23,680
answers, we'll be prepared to
receive it.

1923
01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:28,040
We have to prime the pump or God
doesn't, was it?

1924
01:56:28,040 --> 01:56:30,840
Mcconkey said.
God does not pour revelation

1925
01:56:30,840 --> 01:56:34,520
into a vacuum, right?
Right, right.

1926
01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:35,760
Well and.
We.

1927
01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:39,400
Forget this whole thing, got
kicked off by a young boy asking

1928
01:56:39,400 --> 01:56:43,320
some questions, right?
And I don't think that tradition

1929
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:47,120
ends with Joseph Smith.
Well, I I want to go back and.

1930
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:51,360
Say one thing because as we've
talked about before, the the

1931
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:54,120
geological record, the
prehistoric geological record

1932
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:56,320
shows mass extinction events,
right?

1933
01:56:56,840 --> 01:56:58,880
So we have.
So we have these creations.

1934
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:02,240
Like the the the Cambrian
period.

1935
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:05,040
Then we have a mass extinction
event and all that stuff

1936
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:08,520
disappears and entirely new life
forms suddenly spring up on the

1937
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:12,720
planet.
Right The I forget there's the

1938
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:16,440
Triassic, Jurassic.
And then we have the Cretaceous

1939
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:20,000
period, which was the last
period of the dinosaurs mass

1940
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:22,040
extinction event.
They all disappear.

1941
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:25,640
And then the Cambrian explosion.
Right now the Cambrian was way

1942
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:28,440
before the.
Dinosaurs, right, That was 500.

1943
01:57:28,440 --> 01:57:29,480
Million.
BC and now.

1944
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:33,560
We're talking dinosaur.
The end of the Cretaceous was 65

1945
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:39,000
to 70 million BC and right after
that the tertiary, the KT

1946
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:42,040
boundaries, what they call it a
whole new life form, mammalian

1947
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:46,240
life forms spring up in
platforms and so the geological

1948
01:57:46,240 --> 01:57:48,320
record instead of being this
continuous.

1949
01:57:50,360 --> 01:57:53,840
Small, gradual.
Changes like they talked about

1950
01:57:53,840 --> 01:57:55,520
the Darwinists.
It's not.

1951
01:57:56,360 --> 01:57:59,520
It's like explosive creative
periods.

1952
01:57:59,720 --> 01:58:04,120
Stagnation, extinction.
A new explosive?

1953
01:58:04,120 --> 01:58:07,080
Creative period.
With new life forms stagnation.

1954
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:09,520
There's not any abolition going
on extinction.

1955
01:58:10,200 --> 01:58:12,960
So it's a repeated introduction
of new life forms.

1956
01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:16,520
Wow.
As Eric, as Eric Scowlsen would

1957
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:22,720
put it, and that is so stark in
the geological record that that

1958
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:24,280
anthropologist.
Archaeologists have a term.

1959
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:30,400
For it.
And it's called Oh my gosh, blew

1960
01:58:30,400 --> 01:58:37,920
my mind, but but there's a term
for it.

1961
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,840
What does the term mean?
Past my.

1962
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:45,600
Bedtime, I think.
Oh.

1963
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:48,720
It'll come to me.
Anyway, they.

1964
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:51,640
They actually have a term.
For it they've they've codified

1965
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:57,160
the theory of this repeated
introductions, and I'm so

1966
01:58:57,160 --> 01:59:00,800
embarrassed I can't think of it.
In any case, I personally

1967
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:03,680
believe that's what happens.
These mass extinction events are

1968
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:08,520
so profound and so catastrophic
that I don't think anything

1969
01:59:08,520 --> 01:59:11,640
survived and and God or somebody
was preparing for a new

1970
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:16,880
creation, a new world in any
case.

1971
01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:18,560
So which would?
Explain.

1972
01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:22,160
So I I would say that before
Adam was placed on the Earth,

1973
01:59:22,160 --> 01:59:24,520
that the earth was again
cleansed and prepared for the

1974
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:27,920
presence, you know, cleansed of
the caveman and all that sort of

1975
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:30,960
stuff.
And prior to that Neanderthal,

1976
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:33,800
prior to that Denisovian, could
they have been on the Earth at

1977
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:35,280
the same time?
Why not, right?

1978
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:40,080
But the real question if there
was this repeated introduction

1979
01:59:40,600 --> 01:59:45,800
of new life forms, why would the
humanoid species bear any

1980
01:59:45,800 --> 01:59:48,440
resemblance to each other if
they were from different worlds

1981
01:59:48,440 --> 01:59:53,880
of time periods, right?
My question is why not?

1982
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:55,560
Right.
If we're.

1983
01:59:55,560 --> 01:59:58,120
Humanoids created.
In the image and glory of God,

1984
01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:00,720
why would that change?
Now yes, there are different

1985
02:00:00,720 --> 02:00:04,280
species, but as we approach the
time of Adam, those species

1986
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:09,000
appear more and more like Homo
sapien like Adam, and so why

1987
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:11,480
shouldn't And if Adam was
brought here from another world

1988
02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:14,160
like.
Brigham Young speculated.

1989
02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:17,360
Why would he?
Not Why would there not be that?

1990
02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:21,040
Commonality in the form of.
In the form of mortal man.

1991
02:00:21,040 --> 02:00:23,440
Yeah.
So that shouldn't surprise me or

1992
02:00:23,440 --> 02:00:25,600
anybody else.
No, no.

1993
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:26,880
Oh man.
It's on the tip of my.

1994
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:28,160
Tongue.
It's almost happening.

1995
02:00:32,280 --> 02:00:35,320
Oh, I'm not gonna get it.
It's all right.

1996
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:39,040
It's all right, Ken.
As always, dude.

1997
02:00:39,040 --> 02:00:44,000
This was good stuff, my man.
Well, thanks I I was.

1998
02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:46,480
This was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of homework.

1999
02:00:46,480 --> 02:00:52,240
But and and really, I mean I I
lose sleep.

2000
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:54,680
All this stuff rattling in my
round of my brain and trying to

2001
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:57,320
make sense of these migration
patterns of these haplogroups

2002
02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:02,960
and how that would relate to LDS
teachings, you know, and

2003
02:01:03,240 --> 02:01:04,760
biblical history and all that
sort of stuff.

2004
02:01:04,760 --> 02:01:08,200
So it's been a delightful tour
for me as well.

2005
02:01:08,960 --> 02:01:11,320
Awesome.
All right, man.

2006
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:12,880
Well.
Everybody.

2007
02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:15,080
And we'll see you next time.
Bye.

2008
02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:16,440
See you.
Thanks.

2009
02:01:46,920 --> 02:01:49,600
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.