Episode #120: Analyzing The Sale Of Sacred Sites From The Community of Christ To The LDS Church W/Rod Meldrum

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Well, there's some big stuff
that happened in Mormonism this

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week.
The LDS Church has purchased

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several historical sites,
including the Kirtland Temple

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from the Community of Christ.
To help me break this down, I

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have a man on the podcast that
really needs no introduction in

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Mormonism.
Rod Meldrin joins me on the

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podcast today to discuss the LDS
Church's recent purchase.

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In our conversation, we cover
what the LDS Church purchased in

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Kirtland and Nauvoo, the notable
events and significance of those

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places in Mormon history, what
this means to the world of

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Mormonism.
And along the way, Rod dropped

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some pretty fascinating
information on the podcast about

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the Smith Family Cemetery that
will blow your mind.

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That's next on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade podcast.

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Look, it's no secret that our
society has become much more

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crude and coarse.
To become and raise men and

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women of virtue and character is
a Herculean task.

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To help with this, I've recently
wrote and published a book.

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Now, back in the 1700s,
Washington had a book called

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Rules of Civility and Decent
Behavior and Company and

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Conversation.
It was a book with 110 rules

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that talked about how to conduct
yourself like a civilized person

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in society, something that
today's society is sorely

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lacking.
What I did is I went back

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through the book and I
reinterpreted his original

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sayings for the 21st century.
So the book is laid out in a way

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in which you see Washington's
original rule.

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Right below that is my
explanation for the 21st

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century, and below that you'll
find two or three examples of

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where to use this in the real
world.

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Now, to go along with this,
there's a workbook that helps

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parents teach these principles
and practices to their kids.

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To find the book, go to
mormonrenegade.com.

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Go to the bottom of the page,
search out the blog post, and

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order your copy today.
I can bear personal testimony

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from personal experience that
this is an invaluable tool to

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help you raise men and women of
virtue and character.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Rod Meldrum, The man, the myth,
the legend.

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Dude, I am so excited that
you're here.

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I I gotta tell you, I I am a I'm
the only Mormon on either side

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of my family, right?
I am the first guy to ever

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accept the gospel of my family.
And one of the things that used

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to hit me with a lot was, well,
where's the evidence?

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Right.
Where where's, where's?

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And I'm like, I don't know,
South America.

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I don't know.
I mean it's there somewhere and

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the the thought cause of all the
pictures you see, right you

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always you know see tropical
rainforests and those sorts of

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things.
So you never think about

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America, right, the the
heartland.

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And I remember the first time I
saw one of your presentations it

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was in Boise ID or Meridian and
and just being blown away by the

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amount of stuff that you were
showing out there and the amount

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of stuff that just made sense.
So dude, I've I've followed your

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work for quite a while and I I'm
I'm a huge fan.

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So thanks for being here.
Thank you, Dave.

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I appreciate that.
That's that's phenomenal.

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Yeah, yeah.
So, so you moved out to to

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Missouri from Boise then, huh?
Well, I was.

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So I was born in Alaska, moved
to the Lower 48 with my folks.

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My my old man ended up passing
away in a little town in western

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Idaho, almost on the Oregon
border.

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That's where I I joined the
church as a young man. 18 is

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all.
What's the name?

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What's the name of that town?
Do you remember it?

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Yo, yeah, dude.
Payette.

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Payette.
That's where my, my, my, my

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dad's, my my grandfather lived
there for years, really, for

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most of his life.
Yeah, they had had a big orchard

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step up there and pay at.
Yup, Yup, so.

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And Fred Payette.
And there's a Fruitland up

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there, too.
There's.

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A That was our that was our arch
rivals in football, man.

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We went to war with Fruitland.
That was.

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That was getting on.
You're starting to fire me up

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now.
Yeah, yeah.

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There we go.
Yeah.

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And and so then there's another
little town in western Idaho

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called Parma.
That's where I joined the church

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at.
I met my wife and and she was,

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she was inactive and she's like,
you know, I'd like to raise our

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kids Mormon.
And I'm like, you know what,

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that's fine.
And Mormons were some of my

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best, best designated drivers in
those days.

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So I was like, that's perfect.
You know, I don't.

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I don't mind one bit.
A little bit of that

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occasionally, yeah.
Yeah.

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And so, so she's like, well, I'd
like like you to know what your

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kids are going to be taught.
And I'm like, I'm good.

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I I had enough friends that are
Mormon.

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I get it.
And Long story short, I finally

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acquiesced because she said it'd
mean a lot to her mom, and I

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prayed about it and there was no
heavenly manifestation.

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Nothing like that.
But I knew and I knew that God

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knew and game on, right?
I mean, there's no going back at

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that point, right?
You're kind of on the hook at

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the.
End of the story, man.

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Right, that's that's the brief
version.

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And then from there me and my
wife, we we moved to the Eastern

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Shore of Maryland for about 5
years and then moved back to

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Boise.
Times got tough during the the

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the housing collapse of O8 Hurt
surveyor engineers.

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Architects went to work in North
Dakota for a couple years, then

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Utah and then finally from Utah
here to to Missouri.

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Yeah, just you've.
Seen.

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You've seen a few places.
I've been a few places.

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Yep, I've I've seen a few
places.

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Fortunately, everyone always
seems to be hurting for a land

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surveyor somewhere.
So I I you know, that was more

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just dumb luck stumbling into
surveying than it was anything

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else.
But it was it was good stuff for

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sure.
But dude, big news in this week,

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right?
Oh my goodness.

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Yeah, that's huge, huge news.
Yeah.

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But it's been been pretty,
pretty amazing.

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It's kind of been going out a
little bit last couple of days.

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But yeah I I, I, I actually made
a mistake about four or five

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years ago that was in one of our
big Expos.

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We have these these Expos at the
firm foundation Expos and the

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book performance evidence
conferences and and we were

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having one of those and I and
and just before the conference

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started my my events manager
actually came up to me and said

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that he says Rod he says I I
just I just I found out

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something just like yesterday he
says I was I was doing some

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ministering to my to one of my
one of my families and the guy

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happens to be fairly high up in
the well actually way high up in

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the administration of the of the
Salt Lake church.

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You know so and and his friend
told him that he had just signed

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a $30 million check for the
community of Christ like

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literally the day before.
But it hadn't been announced yet

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what it was for.
And I thought to myself Oh my

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gosh it it's got to be the the
Kirtland temple.

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You know.
I mean $30 million is a lot.

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Right.
I thought that's probably one

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one of those things that would
be worth that kind of you know

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that that amount of money.
And so I I kind of went out on a

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limb and I was there with that,
you know with about you know

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1000 people sitting in front of
me.

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And I said I just I just got
news that that that the church

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may have, you know may have
purchased the the the Kirtland

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temple And there was like a, you
know this is a hush goes through

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the crowd and everything's like,
whoa.

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And then I found out that it was
the the printer's manuscript

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that was that was that was dead
wrong.

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So I said man I'm not going to
make that mistake again.

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I am not going there again.
Right.

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So.
So this time I wanted to wait

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until actually it was an
official announcement.

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I've I've known about that.
You know that was it was

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happening for a while just kind
of rumors and here and there

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just kind of hear a few things
but I didn't want to say

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anything until this actually
happened but now it has.

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So now we can actually talk
about it which I'm I'm.

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I'm really excited for in one
way honestly.

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I'm I'm I'm a little kind of a
little melancholy for some of my

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friends that I've gotten to know
over the years in the community

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of Christ and other Remnant
churches and so forth that have

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been been so good to you know to
to you know with me and and and

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our research on the Book of
Mormon and we we're all we're

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all brothers and sisters and it
comes down to the Book of Mormon

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and and so I I I I I definitely
feel for some of that I think

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that they're that that it was a
good decision overall to to do

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this and I I I one of one of
those people I got I got to have

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a little shout out to is Lachlan
Mackay.

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So Lachlan was the director of
historical sites for the

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community of Christ and a couple
days ago he he actually he

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released a video of himself and
and you can you can you can

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definitely see that it's a it's
a it's a you know it's a pretty

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hard you know thing to do.
You know I mean this is this is

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something that has been a sacred
site for all restoration you

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know groups and so forth and
they and they've kind of had the

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the stewardship and
responsibility of taking care of

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it.
And I then I think that they've

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done a yeoman's job of doing
that.

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You know, but they've had you
know they've got limited funds

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in it that The thing is you know
eating them alive and and that's

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probably time to to to yeah put
it in in in the hands of the of

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the with you know somebody has a
little bit more capability to to

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keep it you know keep it up keep
it restored.

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And and what I want to really
hope honestly because this has

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been one of my biggest concerns
for a long time is that the

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construction of the temple, the
Kirtland Temple was this it's

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called rebel stone.
You know the the the basically

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they just take rough stones.
They put them into mortar.

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There's no wood.
There's no steel.

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It's literally just stacked up
rocks.

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But then the the basin is like
about four feet wide or 4 1/2

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feet wide and it goes up to
about 2 1/2 feet wide at the

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top.
So they kind of taper as it goes

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up towards the top.
But Oh my gosh, if there's if

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there's any kind of an
earthquake, it would literally

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be a pile of rubble.
I mean it really would just come

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down.
So my my hope is is that with

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the expertise that they that
they that they you know the

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Church of Jesus Christ Latter
Day Saints has with seismic

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upgrading of temples that that
we've done to a lot of the

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different temples, the pioneer
era temples in you know in Salt

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Lake and Logan and and Saint
George and other other these

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these early temples.
Hopefully they're going to jump

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on that pretty quick and get
that, get the Carolyn Temple

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shored up so that if there is an
earthquake that it will, it will

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survive that.
It can stand up to it, yeah, for

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sure.
I I know, I know, it's it's

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quite an undertaking that
they're doing.

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Underneath the the Salt Lake
Temple I I kind of saw some of

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the plans on it, 'cause I was in
Utah.

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Extreme.
Went out to bid.

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Yeah.
Those rollers are are impressive

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and and yeah no, I that's the
big thing.

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Just preserve the history right.
I you know, I'm I'm huge on just

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making sure we preserve that
history at all costs.

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But I.
I just want to I just want to

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tell the community of Christ you
know that because because my my

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thing is basically so I've I've
had the opportunity and

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privilege of taking large groups
of of people out on tours for

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probably about the last 1616
seventeen years or so And of

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course the the the Kirtland
temple is one of those places

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it's a must see right and if you
if you're going to do any kind

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of church history stuff you got
to I mean that you you can't not

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go there right.
Right.

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So, so you know, over the years
I've seen you know different

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people come and and and and and
participate in in you know,

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00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,360
preserving and and and taking
care of and you know and and

225
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,200
doing the tours and so forth.
And they just to a person,

226
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,680
they've just been wonderful,
fabulous individuals and very

227
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:33,880
kind, very sweet people.
And I'm just, I do feel for

228
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:35,280
them.
I'm kind of sad for that whole

229
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,400
situation.
Hopefully they'll be able to

230
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,560
continue to help and doing tours
and that kind of thing, although

231
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,800
I'm sure the church is probably
going to be, you know, using

232
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:45,800
missionaries.
In fact, I have.

233
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,280
I have two personal friends of
mine, the Ken and Barbara

234
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,040
Hansen, that are there right now
and they said they just got the

235
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,000
scripts just yesterday.
Oh, wow.

236
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,080
For for what they're going to be
saying in the tours and so forth

237
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,360
the other the church that's got
that all kind of scripted out

238
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,360
but the missionaries can say
anyway so they they're they're

239
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,040
they're now studying that script
and so they're and then honestly

240
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,120
I mean they're they're excited
they they they can't believe

241
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,080
that they're going to be some of
the first you know you know

242
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,160
missionaries of of of Salt Lake
church to be able to you know be

243
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,080
able to actually be there and do
that and yeah it's really

244
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,760
privilege yeah it's a big it's a
big deal it's a big privilege

245
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,680
for them so but yeah so so I
like I said I feel I feel

246
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,760
excitement but I also feel some
melancholiness and and that kind

247
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,720
of sadness on the part of of our
dear friends and other remnant

248
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,600
churches so.
Sure, sure.

249
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,360
Well, it, it sounded like from
the announcement that that it'll

250
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,080
still be open for tours, right.
I mean, Oh yeah, that's not

251
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,720
gonna change.
I mean that that part, you know,

252
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,760
will will continue to live on
and and you know, as as a guy

253
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,520
who who came into the church
without any background on the

254
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,600
history, right, the fact that
those sites were accessible,

255
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,360
right.
You could go, you could see

256
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,360
them.
That only helps to to acclimate

257
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:12,880
newer members, no matter what
what church in the Restoration

258
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,480
you happen to be at, because it
is a shared history and and I

259
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,040
think deserves, deserves respect
from all sides of of Mormonism

260
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,760
so to speak.
What what was your first

261
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,440
interaction with with Kirtland?
When did you first, When did you

262
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,680
first go to Kirtland?
Well actually when I when I was

263
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,960
a kid my well not when I say not
say shouldn't say kid basically

264
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,600
I was just barely back from my
mission in Italy and and and my

265
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,640
my my parents decided to take a
vacation and and so we took this

266
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,040
vacation out to go see the the
the church history sites and and

267
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,200
one of the places we stopped was
was and and currently I remember

268
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,160
just you know seeing the temple
that kind of thing.

269
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,520
But then I didn't I didn't have
any chances to go after that

270
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,600
until sometime and it was kind
of a so then I started doing

271
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,240
this DNA research on the Book of
Mormon and those kinds of things

272
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,720
and then and and bottom line is
is that I needed to go out there

273
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,000
and do some some research on
Joseph Smith of what he knew and

274
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:21,240
so forth.
And as it turns out the the that

275
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,320
this this is going to cost a
little bit more money.

276
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,040
Obviously I didn't have hardly
any I didn't have any money for

277
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,440
hotels or whatever.
So I was actually calling people

278
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,480
and friends and so forth that
that knew about our resources

279
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,320
and asked if I could kind of
stay with them or whatever.

280
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,880
I had this minivan.
I had a a, a Honda, you know

281
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,600
Odyssey minivan.
Right, right.

282
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,680
We call it the the, the way we
call it the the red anyway, the

283
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,320
red van anyway, whatever.
But anyway so so I would stay in

284
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,040
that sleep in that you know and
then and then and then just go

285
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,880
go on my way.
So I called up the Kirtland

286
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,400
Visitor Center there and and and
they said, so is there, is there

287
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,960
some place I could just park my
van and sleep in sleep

288
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,520
overnight?
Because a couple of times I've

289
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,920
had, you know, police knocking
on the window and they said what

290
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,280
are you doing there?
You know, I'm like, what does it

291
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,120
look like I'm doing?
I'm having a party, you know,

292
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:22,040
you know, so, so, so anyway, so
I said is there some place I

293
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,240
could, you know, where it would
be safe?

294
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:24,680
I could you know, you know, do
that.

295
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,480
And they said, well, really
there's this guy that in the in

296
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,440
the area that that we know that
that that maybe could could, you

297
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,760
know, would would like to talk
to you about that or maybe talk

298
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,280
to you a little bit.
And his name is, is Carl

299
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,360
Anderson.
I was like, OK, so they gave me

300
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,720
his number and I called him up
and he said, yeah, I said sure,

301
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,160
sure, he said, but but you know,
I said I'm not gonna even be in

302
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,960
there until probably 1:00 or
2:00 in the morning.

303
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,520
If I could just stay in your
driveway, that would be perfect.

304
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,840
And I could just, you know, get
up in the morning.

305
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,560
I'll leave and won't even bug
gear or whatever they said, Oh

306
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,080
no, he said that, that that
that's just fine.

307
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,200
Just go ahead and here's my
address and just park there.

308
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,520
No problem.
Well in the morning I wake up to

309
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,599
knocking on the window of the of
the van and it's Carl Anderson

310
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,000
and and and and he's saying,
hey, I've got breakfast and

311
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,400
everything for you.
Just come on in.

312
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,160
I'm like, what?
Nice, because I wasn't expecting

313
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,200
that.
I get in there and I mean, I'm,

314
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:22,720
I'm telling he had a layout.
I mean he had all kinds of fruit

315
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,359
and this and that and cereal and
soap, you know, and and pancakes

316
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,680
and eggs and bacon and the
whole.

317
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,640
I mean the IT was like, Oh my
gosh, I had like a like a, you

318
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,040
know, a buffet in in his house.
And then he proceeded to spend

319
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,360
almost the entire day with me.
He doesn't know me from Adam.

320
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,360
I don't know him.
I didn't find out until later

321
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,880
that he's known as Mr. Kirtland
and and he's kind of the go to

322
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,640
guy for Kirtland history.
He he knows more about the

323
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,800
Kirtland history than just about
anybody else.

324
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,240
And in fact he's written several
books about it which are

325
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,440
available there at the bookstore
at the Kirtland Temple Visitor

326
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,640
Center.
Right.

327
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,600
And so I I have a couple of
autographed part copies I'm

328
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,200
pretty proud of this is this is
when it's called Joseph Smith's

329
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,120
Kirtland.
Love that book.

330
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:09,720
Eyewitness accounts of of of
Kirtland.

331
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,680
You know, different people
talking about that.

332
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760
And then and then my other one,
which is probably my very

333
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,000
favorite one, is this one.
It's it's called the The Savior

334
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,600
in Kirtland by by Carl Anderson.
I have that one, and that's a

335
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,000
great book.
And there there's a signature

336
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000
right there, baby.
Nice.

337
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,360
Nice.
So but that see Kirtland is such

338
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,000
a special place though Dave,
because I mean there's there's

339
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,680
there's the the appearances of
of of God and Christ are more

340
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,920
plentiful and more numerous
there than any other place on

341
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,960
earth.
Yep.

342
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,080
I mean maybe with the
possibility of Jerusalem because

343
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,520
Christ was there a lot you know
a lot of time.

344
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,200
But but the bottom line is is
that Oh my gosh.

345
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,520
I mean it's you know there were
there were so many revelations

346
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,840
and so much history that
happened there in Kirtland and

347
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,880
it kind of all surrounds.
I mean you know the temple is

348
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,200
the icon.
Yeah it it it is the the edifice

349
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,240
that that was kind of the the
gathering point of the really

350
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,560
the 1st place of gathering when
it comes down to yeah cuz Smith

351
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,240
family left Palmyra and went to
Kirtland and and then that was

352
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,720
kind of what was going on there.
So I just, I just find it that

353
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:25,040
it's just absolutely astounding.
Such a beautiful and rich

354
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,000
history and so much so needed to
be preserved.

355
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,680
Absolutely.
You know and and I think you're

356
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:36,520
you're 100% correct on on just
how pivotal and important

357
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,240
Kirtland is, right.
It it comes at an early time in

358
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,040
the Restoration and and while
there weren't full temple

359
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,160
ordinances being there, just
like you said, there were so

360
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,240
many heavenly manifestations
there that that you later

361
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,080
understand had to take place in
order for you to have Naavu And

362
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,840
and in Mormon Mormon we
definitely have our sites,

363
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,880
right.
We we have Salt Lake.

364
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,320
We have Naavu Adamondayamond
Independent.

365
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,920
Or web right.
We have these but for some

366
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,400
reason it's it's always kind of
struck me as odd is that

367
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,840
Kirtland doesn't get talked
about as much as those other

368
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,600
sites.
But with with Kirtland though

369
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,720
you have so much that happens
there and and it really is kind

370
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,640
of a hinge point in Mormon
history.

371
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,400
Let let's talk about the history
there.

372
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,800
A little bit of Kirtland maybe
just so maybe some of some of

373
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,120
the listeners who who aren't
that's familiar with it.

374
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:40,640
What makes Kirtland so special
in in in Mormon history?

375
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:41,960
You bet.
You bet.

376
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,400
Let's do that.
Let me.

377
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,960
Let me see there.
I've got something with my

378
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,800
phone.
Well, that's it.

379
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,480
I'm down to 1% battery.
A little breaky thing for a

380
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,880
second.
Let me get some power here.

381
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,680
Sorry.
So, yeah, let's let's talk about

382
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,480
that history a little bit, cuz I
think that history plays huge,

383
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,880
right?
You you can't have, you can't

384
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,880
have Naavu.
You can't have Independence and

385
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,720
Far West and Adam Ondai, Amin or
Salt Lake without what happens

386
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,480
in Kirtland first what what's
the history there that is so

387
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,800
important for the for for
Mormonda.

388
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,240
Yeah.
Well, for me basically that one

389
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,840
of the first things I think is
important is the temple itself.

390
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,280
Is is is pretty special because
of how it was first envisioned.

391
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,120
Yeah it wasn't it wasn't Joseph
Smith going to you know some

392
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,440
some contractors say hey we want
to build a nice building What do

393
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,240
you think?
What do we do?

394
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,640
He went to the Lord and vision
and the Lord gave him a a vision

395
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,440
of the temple.
So the, the temple was actually

396
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:48,040
built based on the, the vision
that Joseph Smith had was given

397
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,560
by the Lord for this thing,
which is really kind of

398
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,360
fascinating thing when it comes
down to the, you know, the

399
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,800
temple.
Because if you, if you go back

400
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,640
in that time frame, this temple
is one of the biggest edifices

401
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,880
I'd say, you know, it may be in
the top 100 biggest edifices in

402
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,200
the entire United States at the
time, right.

403
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,720
And they have it clear out there
on that, on that kind of that

404
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,920
Western frontier, if you will.
Here's this huge edifice that's

405
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,160
that's sitting out there on top
on on this hilltop must have

406
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,720
been pretty impressive but it's
it's kind of bodacious of the of

407
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,160
a group of you know dirt farmers
and and immigrants who are just

408
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,520
coming in who who have no money.
They're poor as church mice and

409
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,800
and and they're gonna and
they're gonna tackle this

410
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,320
project that is just really for
its day is pretty tremendously

411
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,320
grandiose.
I mean it's just a, it's just a

412
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,320
big, big beautiful building.
And you know, although it's

413
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:49,920
it's, you know, it's it's maybe
not as uncommon in New York and

414
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,960
Boston and Chicago and
Philadelphia.

415
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:57,000
You know, this kind of a, this
kind of a, a, a, a a an Amethyst

416
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,000
is right up there with like, you
know, Independence Hall, you

417
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,760
know, in in Philadelphia.
I mean it's maybe not quite that

418
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,240
big, but it's but it's, you
know, kind of similar.

419
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,760
So it's pretty it's a it's a
pretty ambitious project to say

420
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,200
the least, and especially for
people who, you know, they have

421
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,760
no money.
You know.

422
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,680
Yeah, so, so the construction I
mentioned already the the, the

423
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,240
rebel construction, the the,
the, the, the, the you know

424
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,480
stone or what they call rebel
stone construction.

425
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,760
I wanted to share with you a
couple of things maybe let me,

426
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,880
let me, let me share my screen
for just a second.

427
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,040
But one of the one of the things
I love the most before I go into

428
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,240
that is going to the visitor
center and the way that it's set

429
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,800
up is, and hopefully this is not
gonna be a spoiler alert for

430
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,960
anybody.
If, if you're if you're going

431
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,040
to, if you're going to the
Kirtland Temple the next couple

432
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760
of years, probably just, you
know, plug your ears, close your

433
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,000
eyes, whatever.
Earmuffs.

434
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,800
But they hit, but you go into
the visitor center and they have

435
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,040
this big auditorium kind of
looking space.

436
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,080
It's all, you know, it's all,
it's all enclosed.

437
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,320
It's all kind of, you know,
black draperies and stuff around

438
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,120
on the sides.
And then there's there's photos

439
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,080
or or images or paintings I
guess of a lot of the leadership

440
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,080
of the of the Community of
Christ Church on either side.

441
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,320
And then you watch this, this
really nice film and then after

442
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,960
the film is done, it it it, it
starts singing the song a spirit

443
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,400
of God.
It's like a a small a small

444
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,160
group choir basically that's
singing the the spirit of God.

445
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,520
Like a fire is burning and and
and you're not expecting this

446
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,240
because the whole time you've
been in there, it's just been

447
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,320
kind of dark like a like a
theater, right.

448
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,520
And then the next thing you know
all of a sudden the black

449
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,560
curtains in the front of you
just opens up.

450
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,080
It's just kind of, and it starts
to open and the first thing you

451
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:54,760
see is this, wow.
Can you see that?

452
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,400
Yep.
So it literally opens up and

453
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,200
right there in front of you is
the is the temple.

454
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,320
So you've been in the dark and
so your eyes are kind of trying

455
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,520
to adjust you know as the lights
coming in and it has this, this

456
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,360
this big curtain wall of
windows.

457
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:12,200
It's just absolutely magnificent
and the way that they did that

458
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,440
and designed it was just was
just inspiring.

459
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,640
So, so anyway, so that's that's
the picture of the of the

460
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Kirtland Temple here.
Now a few years ago I had the

461
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:28,080
opportunity actually of going
to, I had a tour group and so

462
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,520
forth and we went out to this
place where you can actually see

463
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,200
where the rebel stone actually
came from.

464
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,280
So this is actually pictures I'm
gonna show you.

465
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,280
The next couple of pictures are
images from the quarry that this

466
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,440
stone came from.
You can see right up here in the

467
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,560
in the upper part right here.
Can you see my Yep.

468
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,240
My mouse.
Your mouse is there.

469
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,480
Yep, your cursor OK.
Right here, right here, right

470
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,120
here.
This is where they would

471
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,120
actually, these were the drill
holes where they would drill

472
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,360
into the rock and then they
would take sledgehammers and

473
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,280
break it off.
So these are drill holes all

474
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,080
down here.
See all the drill holes down in

475
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,960
here too, Yeah, you can see how
it's kind of a ^2 off a ^2 edge.

476
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,120
That's because they would they
would fill these drill holes all

477
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,800
along the line this they would
they would chalk a line and then

478
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:10,920
and then put those those holes
on there.

479
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,000
It's kind of another another
different view.

480
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,800
But you can see again all the
all the drill holes here and

481
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,480
they would literally take this,
this stuff out.

482
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,520
Now they've got this, this
stream is running through this

483
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,880
area but this is this is where
they were getting the stone.

484
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,160
And so they were they would
drill down and break these

485
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,160
pieces off, stick them in a
wagon and haul them about about

486
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,960
a mile and a half, maybe 2 miles
to the temple site, which is

487
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,160
where then they would the the
Masons would take that and then

488
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,560
they would you know add it with
the the mortar and then and then

489
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,480
and then up the, you know and
put the temple up.

490
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,640
So there's another picture of
that that's a little closer up

491
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,480
picture of that.
So you can kind of see where

492
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,640
it's set.
Sometimes the the holes didn't

493
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,760
actually the rock didn't break
off properly.

494
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,240
So this this piece right here,
this rock didn't break off.

495
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,720
It kind of it broke in here into
here instead.

496
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,200
But you can see that's that they
they they're still there after

497
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,960
all these years, right?
Right.

498
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,880
There's there's an actual block
that was that was left there

499
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920
that that didn't get used in the
temple.

500
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,640
And then you can see the drill
holes on on two of the four

501
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,440
sides here and this rock.
Yeah, they they would drill it

502
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,560
down to a certain point.
They would break off the rest of

503
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,920
it cuz it's just it's so hard to
drill cuz they they'd literally

504
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,120
have to hold it, hold the steel
drill.

505
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,680
One guy would hold it and the
other guy would take a

506
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,640
sledgehammer and beat on it and
then and he would and he would

507
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,600
rotate it cuz it had kind of a a
kind of a a.

508
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,280
Drill that.
Could chill the land.

509
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,360
Sort of.
Then they'd they'd they'd do it

510
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,520
and they'd rotate it and hit it
again and rotate it and hit it

511
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,520
again and they'd just keep going
on that until it got down there.

512
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,920
So, you know, an extra 3 inches
may take another, you know, 35

513
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960
hits with the sledgehammer,
which is just a, you know, it's

514
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,440
a monumental effort to get these
things out of the ground.

515
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,120
Forgive me, forgive me.
That's why those brethren must

516
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,400
have really loved and trusted
each other, because they've

517
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,960
already taken smacks at their
hands.

518
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,800
Were they?
Right.

519
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,480
I imagine after a couple of
weeks of a swinging a sledge in

520
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,800
there we got pretty good aim,
pretty good aim at that.

521
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,720
You would hope so, right?
If you're the guy holding a

522
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,160
drill bit.
Yeah, they they had a pretty big

523
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,960
head on them too, which is good.
So they could, if you you could

524
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,520
be off for a little bit.
But anyway, yeah, so I imagine

525
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,760
some of those guys look like,
you know, Popeye the Sailor Man

526
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,120
as far as their, you know, their
their forearms and their arms.

527
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,720
You.
Know their their shoulders from

528
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,720
doing that all day.
There was so much sacrifice that

529
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,880
went into this temple and that's
one of the things I I love to

530
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,320
talk about because they, you
know, the men would I mean these

531
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,080
people are coming in with no
money.

532
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,600
Yeah they were they're trying to
put up farms.

533
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,400
They're trying to put up homes.
You know they were they they

534
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,720
were busy, busy, busy.
The women were trying to you

535
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,000
know keep food on the table and
that kind of stuff and also keep

536
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,440
the men clothed.
They actually would.

537
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,160
They would get together and they
would make and they would sew

538
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,320
clothing so that the men had
something to wear because they

539
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,680
were so dirt poor.
But many of them couldn't,

540
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,680
couldn't afford to go out and
buy clothing.

541
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,680
So they would actually make the
clothes and then the men would

542
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,280
wear that when they were working
on the temple.

543
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,400
They they had, they, you know,
they had the, the, the tithe

544
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,520
kind of situation that was going
on where they were, they were

545
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,640
giving, you know, a portion of
their time, right, to go work in

546
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,960
the temple.
They didn't have money to give.

547
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,440
So they just gave their time.
And that was just another, you

548
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,800
know, fascinating aspect of it.
But the temple basically has

549
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:32,640
this the the the, the amount of
work that went into that is just

550
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,280
it's astounding really and some
the the the architectural you

551
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,560
know aspects of it were were
unique for the time.

552
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,520
But another another just kind of
mentioned this and that is that

553
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,720
they they when they when they
were redoing some of the temple

554
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,520
things they actually found that
that that the earliest coat that

555
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,480
they had on there, they they had
this, they had the rocks and the

556
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,160
mortar.
Then they would kind of smear

557
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,280
the mortar all over on the
outside then they kind of smooth

558
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,400
it off and so forth.
But some of the some of the the

559
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,200
sisters were actually taking
their fine China and plates and

560
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,000
things like that and actually
smashing them into kind of a

561
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,600
powder and then they were
applying that to the outer

562
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,960
surface of the temple.
So it actually had almost like a

563
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,600
kind of a, a, a brilliant, you
know, kind of a a sparkling look

564
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,080
on the on the exterior of the
temple.

565
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,440
And that's the kind of
sacrifices that were that they

566
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,000
were making, you know, to do
this project.

567
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,200
The other thing is is for the
life of me I've I've looked and

568
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,800
this seems to be the first time
certainly in America maybe

569
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,520
within the world that a a
Christian denomination one that

570
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,800
that professes Christ build
something other than a Chapel or

571
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,400
a cathedral right.
This was different in all of

572
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,200
Christendom up to this point.
This idea of of of a temple

573
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,200
right something that Harkins,
Harkins back.

574
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,720
You say the word temple.
If if you're in the in the

575
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,560
Judeo-christian tradition and
images of Solomon's temple come

576
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,920
up and and it carries a certain
gravitas, that was different

577
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,960
than than certainly I think
anybody within Christianity

578
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,440
would have seen up to that
point.

579
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,480
Yeah.
And there there was some big,

580
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,000
you know I mean like like if you
go to like Saint Paul's

581
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Cathedral in New York which was
built you know obviously you

582
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,120
know clear back to the time of
George Washington and so forth.

583
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,000
I mean those are pretty
impressive big buildings, but

584
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,800
they were, but they also were
being built in a in a city that

585
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,160
already had 10s of thousands of
people.

586
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,720
I mean, you know, drilling had,
you know a couple of 1000 people

587
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,600
basically at the time.
So it was like I said, it's

588
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,040
pretty pretty amazing project
for its for its aid, for its

589
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,320
time frame and also the the, the
population that was there to

590
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,160
support it.
But yeah so so let's go back

591
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,240
into a couple of things that so
kind of as far as the Kirtland

592
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,680
dedication you know that the the
dedicatory prayer by Joseph

593
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,680
Smith what he said he received
by revelation from the Lord and

594
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,200
that's really a phenomenal they
they actually had I think it was

595
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,800
4 different dedication
ceremonies because they couldn't

596
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,000
get everybody into the temple
which is kind of surprising when

597
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,920
you consider that they that they
you know these that has two

598
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,160
basically has two there's three
floors but two of them the

599
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,760
primary floors they have pews in
it that are that are unique also

600
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360
to the time.
I don't I've never heard of any

601
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,440
churches that did this before
but they but it has it has it

602
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,240
has pulpits on both sides of the
of the the long space.

603
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,240
So there's the the, the ironic
priesthood side and there's the

604
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Melchizedek Priesthood side.
So how do you get benches?

605
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,560
How do you get pews that face
both directions?

606
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,160
And they came up with an
ingenious way to do that.

607
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,680
They actually created boxes
within on the on the floor, you

608
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,280
know, kind of a big like a yeah,
like about 12 or 13 feet, I'd

609
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,200
guess something like that by
about 3:00 or 4 feet, maybe

610
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,280
about 3 1/2 feet.
And then they put a bench on the

611
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,280
inside of that that you could
sit on.

612
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,840
So literally you could, you
could be sitting on the bench

613
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,280
facing one way.
And then if if everybody wanted

614
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,280
to switch and the congregation
wanted to switch and look at the

615
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,640
other direction, you can
literally just step over the

616
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,160
bench, step, scoot the bench
back to the other side and then

617
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,480
sit down again and then look in
the other direction.

618
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,600
Wow.
And then there's then there's

619
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,920
also the the, this, this drapery
system that they had put in

620
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,320
there that had these big canvas
sheets that would come down that

621
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,080
they could be lowered down by
ropes through the ceilings they

622
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,640
had, they then they had these
ropes coming through pulleys

623
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,440
into the the pillars that are in
the temple.

624
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,880
I mean it was really, really
amazing design how they do that.

625
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,920
They they could separate that
into several different, actual

626
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,480
different classrooms with these,
with these draperies, these

627
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,520
these canvas, you know, sheets
of canvas there.

628
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,920
So it was really a pretty you
know amazing from that

629
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,680
standpoint but but what I was
going to mention is the is that

630
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,880
the the dedicatory prayer by by
Joseph Smith they had three

631
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,239
different dedicatory services.
They also interesting they have

632
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,520
the the pulpits on both sides
but then in the corners there's

633
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,199
there's choir seats on on on all
four corners.

634
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,600
So you literally have the first
ever surround sound system as

635
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,719
you as the as the choirs were
singing.

636
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,719
You know how you know the the
song you know which was made

637
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,639
actually was written
specifically for the dedication

638
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:32,400
of the temple, which was the
spirit of God.

639
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,280
Like a fire is burning, right?
Anyway, so when you hear that

640
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,760
from all four sides and the
congregation kind of joins in

641
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,480
with the song, man, it must have
been just like, like.

642
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,679
Yeah.
Amazing to hear all that going

643
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,880
on because the acoustics are
actually pretty decent in there

644
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,239
too.
It's also unique and that had a

645
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,760
lot of large windows which which
was with the windows were very

646
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,800
expensive back in those days and
and and so having windows of

647
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,200
that size provided the light.
They didn't have to really use

648
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,400
use candles and and and fire
which is obviously you know a a

649
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,360
hazard especially if you have
these you know these women with

650
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,200
their beautiful long dresses and
stuff.

651
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,360
You know the the the flame gets
on that and they they go up in

652
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,560
ash really quick.
Right.

653
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,760
So so it was a unique that they
didn't have to have fires and

654
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,240
and and and that kind of stuff
to do that anyway.

655
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:31,240
So during the dedicatory
services which I think there was

656
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:35,120
four of them and these were not
these were not for the faint of

657
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,400
heart and and and and and the
the number of people who were

658
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,800
were said to have been crammed
into these sessions.

659
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,520
They had to be in these pews.
They had to be literally some,

660
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,880
some people had to be sitting
on, you know, like kids would be

661
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,840
sitting on their parents laps
and so forth.

662
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,960
And some of these, some of these
sermons were going on for four

663
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,960
or five hours, you know.
And so they would do it.

664
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,080
They'd do it in the morning.
They'd do another one in the

665
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,560
afternoon.
They did another one the next

666
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,120
day, you know, kind of thing.
And and there's and even people

667
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,920
would sit outside and and they'd
had the big windows open because

668
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,880
there's so many people inside it
got hot and and so they they'd

669
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,120
open up the windows and the
people outside could hear the

670
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,120
sermons going on and they'd have
to sit really quietly and

671
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,760
listen.
But yeah it was it was a it was

672
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,400
a very big deal on the
dedication.

673
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,200
And some people, I'd love to
tell a little bit more of the

674
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,000
story of John Tanner for
example.

675
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:39,200
But one of one of John Tanner's
kids actually was one of several

676
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:46,400
people who saw angelic hosts and
and and fire pillars of fire

677
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,720
above the temple of it's almost
like a Pentecostal experience

678
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,680
kind of thing I guess where they
just said they saw all these

679
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,800
wonderful things going on there
during during the the dedicatory

680
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,360
services there.
So it's it's it's fascinating to

681
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,160
see how that that's all stuff
that's in church history and and

682
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,600
Carl Anderson was one of the the
the kind of you know he has a

683
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,840
bunch of this information in his
books and things.

684
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,600
I just love that.
I want to just give a quick

685
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,480
shout out to a guy who I became
quite friends with.

686
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,520
He has unfortunately passed away
about three years ago or so,

687
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,520
three or four years ago during
COVID but his name is Tom

688
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,760
Kimball and and Tom was a was a
member of the Salt Lake church

689
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,560
basically.
But it was kind of funny because

690
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,320
sometimes we'd go out there and
he'd have a a a cup of coffee in

691
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,800
his hand and he's you know
taking us through the tours and

692
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,680
so one of the you know copies
one of those non things for the

693
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,120
Salt Lake church basically our
our our faith.

694
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,360
So so that was kind of an
interesting thing but but I tell

695
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,440
you that guy he loved the
temple.

696
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,760
I mean he just loved the temple.
He he went there and volunteered

697
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,960
at 1st and and it was so good at
what he was doing.

698
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,840
He's kind of I think he had a
contractor background or

699
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,600
something anyway so he but he he
would go and he start repairing

700
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,320
things and then taking care of
stuff.

701
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:17,560
He he just he he felt such a a a
deep respect and love for that

702
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,240
temple and he basically worked
there for years he'd give tours

703
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,680
he was a fun one to give tours
tours with because you know a

704
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,720
lot a lot of times I bring I
bring tour groups and and most

705
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:32,520
of our people are are you know
you know members of the of the

706
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,280
Salt Lake church basically so so
they're a little apprehensive

707
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,240
about going into oh one of these
community Christ people are

708
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,320
going to be doing Oh yeah what
what is going to be doing

709
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,560
whatever and and it's kind of
funny So anyway I I I I

710
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,120
alleviate their fears so you
know what they're awesome you

711
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,840
know just get to know them
they're great people and and but

712
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,160
but when we go in and they and
they find out that was Tom

713
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,280
Kimball he was one of our faith
and said Oh well OK OK yeah.

714
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,040
Then he's standing there with a
cup of coffee in his hand and

715
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,200
they're like, what?
That's.

716
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,080
Funny.
Anyway it was pretty funny but

717
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,400
but I I I have to my my hat's
off to to Tom Kimball and it's

718
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,440
unfortunate that he passed away
but he was he was a great, great

719
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,200
guy and another person I've got
to know out there.

720
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,880
I haven't got to know him
really, really well.

721
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,800
But I'm like hoping to to
continue a friendship.

722
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,720
There is Joe Jackson he's kind
of become the de facto

723
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:31,320
replacement for Carl Anderson as
he's had as he's gotten older

724
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,720
and not able to do as much stuff
there and and he's actually

725
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,960
moved back here to Utah is in a
is in a retirement home or

726
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,200
something I think so anyway.
So anyway, so he's not back

727
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,520
there and and Joe Jackson is the
guy that's kind of become the

728
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,400
new, the new face of Kirtland if
you will and and it's it's

729
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,200
really nice to have somebody
with that he's he's actually

730
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,040
born and raised there.
So he's, he's, he's a, you know

731
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,440
a Kirtland product you know
product not not prodigal son

732
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,160
prodigy.
OK, there we go.

733
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,600
So.
Apologies to that guy, we didn't

734
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,520
mean the way it sounded.
Yeah, yeah.

735
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,200
So a couple other quick things.
I, I, I love about this.

736
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,240
Let me let me see.
I got a couple of more images we

737
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:21,760
can go to.
Oh right.

738
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,640
Have we been on this picture the
whole time?

739
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,440
Yep, Yep.
Oh I'm sorry, I I I need to go

740
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,800
back to us.
So but anyway, but let me just

741
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,000
show you a couple more pictures
here.

742
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,040
So this is this is this is Chris
Kimball.

743
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,880
She is one of the owners of
Legacy Tourism Travel who's the

744
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,800
travel agency that I that I work
with that they're just

745
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,920
phenomenal people and that's the
new OK Whitney store and I just

746
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,960
love the the the store there the
the story of Joseph Smith he

747
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,200
gets it he he basically gets a
revelation he's he's to go to

748
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,600
the to the Ohio you know.
Right.

749
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,080
And and then he takes a a slay
and he and Emma come out in the

750
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,400
middle of the freaking winter.
It's freezing cold.

751
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,040
And they and they show up here
at the Neil K Whitney store.

752
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:10,080
Neil K Whitney was a was a quite
a wealthy businessman had a had

753
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,240
a a really good going store here
supplying people with all kinds

754
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:19,000
of stuff there around the the
the area there in Kirtland and

755
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,920
and and and this as the story
goes basically as the history

756
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,280
goes Joseph Joseph got down off
of his his sleigh that they had

757
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,240
brought over because they
because it was you know it was

758
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,520
snow the entire way.
And he and he and he opens the

759
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,960
door and he walks into the store
and he says new.

760
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:43,240
OK Whitney, thou art the man new
OK Whitney looks at him like who

761
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:49,720
are you And he says he says yes
Sir but I I I don't have the

762
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:53,400
privilege knowing who you are
And he says I'm Joseph Smith the

763
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,400
prophet.
You prayed me here.

764
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:56,360
Now what do you want?
Yep.

765
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:01,120
I thought.
Man, that would be quite an

766
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,160
introduction, wouldn't it?
It would be, yeah.

767
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,720
That's one that'll take your
breath away for sure, yeah.

768
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,000
Yeah.
And and anyway they they became

769
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,640
really dear friends.
I mean they really did they

770
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,320
they, you know Neil Key Whitney
helped in all kinds of things.

771
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,760
He was the first Bishop of the
church.

772
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,120
You know he had to he helping
helping people out because again

773
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,720
these people were dirt poor.
So you know that the whole, you

774
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:27,560
know, you know a lot of
consecration kind of thing was

775
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,080
going on and they were trying to
get that kind of established and

776
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,240
they were, you know, so they
had, they had food they they

777
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,720
started, you know, some tithing
stuff anyway.

778
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,040
And and for a time actually
Joseph and Emma actually lived

779
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,360
with them.
So I wanted to maybe just maybe

780
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,400
some of your, your, your your
listeners would like to kind of

781
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,920
just go through just a brief
history of what of of Joseph

782
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,120
Smith and his family, what they
were doing there in the curling

783
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,520
period.
Absolutely.

784
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,680
So they kind of started off
there at the Isaac Morley farm

785
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,440
and let me see if I I don't.
I don't have any pictures of

786
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,920
Isaac Morley farm, but there's a
there's a picture of one of our

787
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:06,720
one of our groups there at the
temple.

788
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:09,400
Let me just kind of go through
these pictures and I'll just go

789
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,160
back to us.
OK.

790
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,200
OK.
So there's another one of my one

791
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,080
of my part of my tour group
there and the and the and the

792
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,480
temple there.
But you can see those big

793
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,320
beautiful gothic windows, and
then the dormer's up on top,

794
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:25,880
right up on top, actually,
there's several rooms.

795
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:28,360
Because of the construction of
it.

796
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,280
They didn't have that big of
logs and there was quite a span

797
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:38,640
and so forth.
So today the torque don't allow

798
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,160
groups of our size, I mean
because I usually have you know

799
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,800
45 or 50 people and so they they
they only allow like 10 or 15

800
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,960
people at a time because the
floors are too weak to hold hold

801
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,080
the whole, the whole bus full of
people up there.

802
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,960
But Joseph Smith had an office
up there and there's there's

803
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,880
several other rooms and things
up there and the ceilings are

804
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,040
kind of they're kind of shallow.
They're kind of short.

805
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,520
But well, well the other ones in
the main, the main 2, the main

806
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,600
halls are are are very, very
large.

807
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,480
They're probably down and say
you know 10 or 15 foot tall

808
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,480
ceilings on both of those.
So you can you can get an idea

809
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,320
of how big those, those those
rooms are so that the floor is

810
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,840
about halfway up above the
windows and then there's the

811
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,160
windows above that then there's
then there's another floor and

812
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,120
then so they just have that
little space up in the top

813
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,200
there.
So those dormer became really

814
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,960
important because that's the
only place we could then

815
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,400
actually well for me I'm I'm 6
foot 4 so I can stand up

816
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,800
straight in those dormers but
the but the other places I have

817
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,760
to duck most of the time.
Wow.

818
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,400
OK, this is the, this is the,
let's see this is the sawmill

819
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,960
that was rebuilt there by the
church.

820
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,520
Basically the the sawmill part
of it's behind those those

821
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,400
vertical boards and then you
have where they brought the logs

822
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,880
up on the left hand side.
Then they would saw them into

823
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,320
pieces and then they would they
would cut them off on the right

824
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,080
hand side there.
This is the Ashery.

825
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,040
They would they would gather all
the ash from all the fireplaces

826
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,840
and things they would make it
into like what what they call it

827
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,280
potash and that was that was
actually really valuable.

828
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,200
They'd use it for all kinds of
ceramics and all and for

829
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,400
fertilizers and stuff.
So anyway so that that was a a

830
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,000
pretty going business as well
That mill K Whitney actually

831
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,480
helped to to get that set up and
then he kind of turned it over

832
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,120
to the people.
This is a, this is an image of

833
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,480
the the sawmill that that had
that I think it could do

834
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,240
something like like about 120
strokes per minute which is

835
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:39,200
about two or you know 2 1/2 or
three strokes you know a second

836
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,200
which is like that thing was was
cooking.

837
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,720
Yeah back and forth to cook
these the two to do these logs

838
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:46,320
but they could they could move
it around.

839
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,520
It was a pretty amazing mill
that they had for doing the

840
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,200
wood.
There's another another tour

841
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,000
group here at the Neil K Whitney
store.

842
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,920
They break us into a smaller
groups to get us into the store,

843
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,640
'cause you can't get 50 people
into these these individual

844
00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,960
rooms.
They would break us into three

845
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,560
or four groups and we'd go and
around it and go check it out,

846
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,320
another group there.
Everybody's happy there 'cause

847
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,040
being in in Kirtland.
So anyway, there's there's the

848
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,680
few few shots that we can see
there.

849
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,280
All right, we'll go back to us
here, Dave.

850
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,440
OK.
You know, I I think one of the.

851
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:23,000
Oh, go ahead.
Sorry.

852
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,680
Oh, I I, I, I forgot about the
the, the, the whole point there

853
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,400
was going to be to go through a
little bit of Joseph Smith's

854
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,400
history there.
Yep.

855
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,120
So he started off at the Isaac
Morley farm.

856
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,880
He and Emma.
Emma was pregnant at the time.

857
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,160
Then she had babies.
She had twins.

858
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,920
And that was, that was Thaddeus
and and Louisa.

859
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,480
And they both only lived just a
few hours and they died.

860
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,080
It was just a pretty devastating
time.

861
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,560
But they just moved out here.
They're just getting their

862
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,720
foothold going on in this, on
this, on this Prairie out here.

863
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,600
And then the next thing you know
that they have these babies and

864
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,280
they both die.
But then luckily John and I

865
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,560
think it was Lydia or something
John and and Julia Julia Murdoch

866
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,680
they had twins and she died
during childbirth.

867
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,720
So the Murdochs basically gave
or John Murdoch came to Joseph

868
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,880
and Emma and said listen I I I
don't know I I don't know what

869
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,680
to do to take care of these
babies they need a mom and and

870
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,480
so they they he gave the babies
to Joseph and Emma and then she

871
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,680
basically they they took them as
their own and they then they

872
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,000
became Joseph Joseph Murdoch
Smith and Julie Murdoch Smith

873
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,760
and and many people know that
that after the they left the the

874
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:42,600
Isaac Morley farm there was a
fairly very wealthy guy by the

875
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,080
name of John Johnson and they
went out to live on his farm.

876
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,880
He had extra space and it
created a large house and a big

877
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,320
farm and so they went out to
live with him and that's where

878
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,520
several really really important
visitations and and revelations

879
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,920
came to the prophet Joseph Smith
while they were on the John

880
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,240
Johnson farm.
They it was a big enough house

881
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,840
that they had some actual room
you know to be able to do some

882
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,560
things like that and they could
have visitors come and not have

883
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,680
to disrupt the family too much.
So it was really a nice place

884
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:18,280
for them but that's also the
place where the the mobs began

885
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,720
to to gather and to form and and
they came out there to the the

886
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:26,760
John Johnson farm one night and
and dragged Joseph Smith out of

887
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,440
his bed tarred and feathered him
and they and they they they

888
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,600
nobody knows for sure if this
was what happened but basically

889
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,720
but the but the Joseph Murdoch
Smith and Murdoch twin that was

890
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:44,320
that they had they they had
adopted basically fell sick

891
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,800
shortly after that they think
maybe possibly because of

892
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,920
exposure when they broke into
the house and everything and

893
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,880
that left the doors open and
stuff and they they brought the

894
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,120
prophet out to turn and feather
him but he ended up dying as

895
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,360
well So that left them but
basically the the Julia Murdoch

896
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,160
Smith was the was the the little
girl and she actually lived to

897
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,520
be about 49 years old She she
never she was married twice but

898
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,040
she never had any children and
and died without having any

899
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,960
offspring or any any any you
know descendants which is kind

900
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,280
of an interesting thing about
the Joseph Smith his his whole

901
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,680
family they didn't not seem to
be able to replicate very well.

902
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,200
Right.
Their their their family just

903
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,360
they just kind of they just kept
coming to dead ends all over the

904
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:31,800
place.
I'm not sure what the deal was

905
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,720
but anyway wow.
So, so then then they went they

906
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:40,160
went from the John Johnson farm
and by this time Neil K Whitney

907
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:45,640
had prepared a a special room up
in the top of his store and he

908
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,480
and and and he and Emma lived up
there in in the top of the of

909
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,200
the Neil K Whitney store for for
a period of time.

910
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,800
They had their own rooms and so
forth and they also had a a nice

911
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,120
kitchen and things that that
they that Emma could use as

912
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,760
well.
So they so they kind of bounced

913
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,720
around there and then ultimately
they finally got a house built

914
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:10,840
which is just down the street
from the temple just like

915
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,800
literally there was two houses
down.

916
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,440
There's the temple, there's a
cemetery and then there's a

917
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,840
house.
And then there was the Joseph

918
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,840
and Smith, Joseph and Emma house
and the, you know, the the the

919
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,400
church bought that a a few years
ago and they've completely

920
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,400
remodeled it.
And I actually got to take a a a

921
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,120
tour group through it last last
year for the first time to to go

922
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,080
see the Joseph and Emma's home
there in Kirtland.

923
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,000
So there you go.
There's a lot more to that

924
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,800
story, but we don't want to go
on and on.

925
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,440
Right.
You know, I I think the other

926
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:48,160
thing that's significant about
the Kirtland period is this

927
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,880
Kirtland and specifically within
the Kirtland Temple is where

928
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,400
Joseph receives essentially all
the keys, right?

929
00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:03,080
That's where Moses shows up to
Elias, Elijah, and then

930
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,400
eventually the Savior himself,
right.

931
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:11,400
And so it's it's so, so
important because this Kirtland

932
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,760
period would go on to set up
anything that would Mormonism

933
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,040
starts to take on a different
form, right.

934
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:25,280
If if you just read just the
Book of Mormon, you could see

935
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,400
what the appeal was, right?
It it's very it.

936
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,600
It's not that out of step with
what a lot of people were

937
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:36,520
believing in those days, right.
And and so in some sense, while

938
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,040
it was different, right, you're
claiming A restoration, you're

939
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,440
claiming new revelation.
It wasn't exactly Mormonism as

940
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,040
we would come to recognize it
now, right?

941
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,400
But in this Kirtland period is
when this starts to happen

942
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,760
right?
This idea of higher ordinances

943
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,880
with foot washing taking place
inside that temple and and

944
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,480
things are beginning to take
shape.

945
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,000
I You just can't really
overstate the importance of of

946
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,680
Kirtland in in in the the
Restoration story.

947
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,840
Yeah.
Oh yeah absolutely.

948
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:16,280
So so I I just got to to say
that we are very I I've had like

949
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,160
that like I said that privilege
for the last about 15-16 years

950
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,240
or so to take groups back there
and and and it's always a

951
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:28,360
highlight of every tour to be
able to go into the temple there

952
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:34,800
and and and and and at the end
and I I don't know if everybody

953
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,120
does this but I think all of all
of our tour groups did anyway

954
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,720
but but we end up seeing that a
a spirit of God like a fire is

955
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,920
burning there in the temple is
always a highlight of the tour.

956
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,640
It's that there's such a a
beautiful spirit of that of that

957
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,160
hymn and sung in that place and
and and kind of harkening back

958
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,760
to you know, all the people who
had sacrificed so much to build

959
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,560
this temple and then within just
a couple of years there to move

960
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:03,960
on.
Right.

961
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,120
And just like Oh my gosh, how
many people, you know, they had

962
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,400
the Kirtland Safety Society, the
anti banking society and so

963
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,360
forth that went on.
And Kirtland was also, it was a

964
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,560
period of great joy, but it's
also a period of huge trials and

965
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,320
tribulations and and there's a
lot of fallout.

966
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,440
There's a lot of people said,
you know, that's that Joseph

967
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,960
cannot be a prophet.
That means why would he move us

968
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,440
here?
And then we build all these

969
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,680
homes, we build this big
beautiful edifice, this huge

970
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,000
temple and everything and then
within just a couple of years

971
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,800
we're he's, we're moving.
Are you serious?

972
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,640
You know, where are we going to
go?

973
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,520
Well, well we're going to go way
out on Indian Territory

974
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,640
basically clear out the like far
West.

975
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,560
I mean way in the whoop out
there and I go wow, we just, we

976
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,080
just had the the the the
Kirtland Banking Society fell

977
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,760
apart.
You know we we almost lost the

978
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,480
temple.
It wasn't for John Tanner.

979
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,720
You know John Tanner was, I
don't know, should I tell it

980
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:04,480
really quickly, the John Tanner
story?

981
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,720
Sure.
You OK again, dude?

982
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,320
We can we can go as long as we
want.

983
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,800
There is no time.
People have you know, I, I am a

984
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,360
firm believer that the mind can
only, you know, endure.

985
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,840
What the excuse me?
The mind can only absorb what

986
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,040
the behind can adore, you know.
Endure, so stand for.

987
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,080
That that too much there.
I just kind of blew that.

988
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,600
But anyway so the so the John
Tanner story is really

989
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,160
fascinating because John Tanner
was a guy that was was extremely

990
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,840
well to do and he'd be a multi
multi millionaire in today's

991
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,840
terms.
He had several different farms

992
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:48,840
he had he he owned an island he
had stores he had sawmills he

993
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:54,040
had he had numerous you know
several several businesses and

994
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,720
and and he but he he had
something happen with his leg

995
00:54:57,720 --> 00:55:00,640
and he ended up getting a a
really seriously bad infection

996
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,840
to the point where it actually
started to and his leg was dying

997
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,520
turning black and and and and
the doctors were saying you have

998
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,400
to have this amputated and like
now or it will kill you you will

999
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,360
die.
And he he made the comment

1000
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,840
something to the effect that
that my leg came with me to this

1001
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,240
world and together we shall
depart it, you know.

1002
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,800
So he was like not going to have
his leg cut off.

1003
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,760
And his wife went back after the
doctor said you you know, you're

1004
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,200
going to die, John.
If you don't, if you don't have

1005
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,760
this leg cut off, you're you're
gone.

1006
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,680
And and he said, well he says
you know I'm not going to do

1007
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,000
that.
His wife they went back

1008
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,560
basically to get his affairs in
order in preparation for dying.

1009
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,680
And when they came back they
they they ended up meeting up

1010
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,320
with these these Mormon
missionaries and they and they

1011
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,520
and they they they came into his
life.

1012
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,080
They came into his home.
They they talked to him for a

1013
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,000
little bit and then they they
basically challenged and they

1014
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,360
said so John Tanner, what do you
have against getting baptized

1015
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:04,560
tonight?
He says well I would but my leg

1016
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,960
I mean I I, I, I I can't I can't
bear it.

1017
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,440
I mean I you know I I I if I got
into the water I mean I you know

1018
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,240
it's already so bad that it
could kill me and it probably

1019
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:18,720
will kill me and and they and
they said they say John Tanner

1020
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:22,720
do you believe that Jesus Christ
has the power to heal.

1021
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,920
Do you believe that he helped
that he healed the the lepers

1022
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:32,360
and the and the the waters that
you know the the waters there

1023
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,040
that I can't remember the name
of the fountain.

1024
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:38,920
I've been there a couple times
but anyway so so and he and he

1025
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,360
said well yes actually I do.
He says well then John Tanner is

1026
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,240
there any reason why you can't
be healed right now Do you have

1027
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:51,840
faith to be healed.
And he said he kind of looks at

1028
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,840
his wife and he's like, yeah,
actually I do.

1029
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,240
I do.
He says, well, then John Tanner,

1030
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:06,360
throw down those crutches, just
get up on your feet and walk and

1031
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,200
that.
And as the story goes, he, he

1032
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:14,120
had been on crutches for months
and he took those crutches and

1033
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:15,760
he and he threw them down on the
floor.

1034
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,520
He got up on his feet and he
walked across the room and just

1035
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,800
was and and just began just
rejoicing.

1036
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,680
And his wife and his, his little
son there was just bawling, you

1037
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,320
know, They were just weeping.
And that very night he walked

1038
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:35,480
over a mile and a half down to
the river so he could be

1039
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,560
baptized.
Holy cow.

1040
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,600
And his leg was healed
instantly.

1041
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,360
Well upon that.
So yeah, so that.

1042
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,800
I mean, so this is the, I mean
this, this is a pretty strong

1043
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,880
affirmation that the gospel is
true, right.

1044
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,040
So that he and his wife after
this happened were they're 100%

1045
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,680
committed.
Right, right.

1046
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,280
And then they're praying one
night and they have this and the

1047
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,480
Lord comes to him and says
you're needed in Kirtland.

1048
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,000
And he said OK, he says when
should I go?

1049
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:12,760
He says tonight so, so, so he
and his wife, literally they

1050
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,720
gathered up their stuff that
they need to have.

1051
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,040
They jump in a wagon, pick up
the horses and whatever, and

1052
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,400
they head off to to Kirtland.
And they when and when they get

1053
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,720
to Kirtland, what they what they
didn't know is that Joseph and

1054
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,440
the Brethren, because they were
so poor, they actually had to

1055
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,440
borrow the money.
Even though all the labor was

1056
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,960
being for free, they still had
to buy mortar and and wood and

1057
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,200
and that kind of stuff, you
know, in the windows and that

1058
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:38,440
kind of stuff.
That was kind of the biggest,

1059
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,760
the biggest expenses there.
I didn't have the money to do

1060
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:43,880
that.
So they actually had borrowed

1061
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:50,520
the money and so the loan on the
temple was due and they had two

1062
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,440
days to make good on the loan or
the temple was going to be

1063
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:55,280
repossessed.
Oh.

1064
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:00,240
Jeez.
Yeah, think of that.

1065
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,240
Pressure.
The pressure and the brother

1066
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,640
come to Joseph Smith said what
are we going to do?

1067
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:13,720
And Joseph said this is the
Lord's temple and he'll take

1068
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,760
care of it And he said, but he
said, but I I don't know He says

1069
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,280
I I we don't There's nothing we
can do.

1070
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,760
The there's we don't have any
money.

1071
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,480
Well, it turns out that John
Tanner rolls into town the next

1072
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:34,240
day, finds out that the temple
money is due, write a check for

1073
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,560
I think it was the the first
check was 12,000.

1074
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,920
The next check was 20,000, which
is the equivalent today of like

1075
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:46,120
several hundreds of thousands of
dollars to to to to to buy the

1076
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,920
loan back so that the temple
would not be repossessed.

1077
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,040
Then he proceeded to fund
missionaries going out, giving

1078
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,800
them, giving them money for
supplies and for you know for

1079
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,400
the the, the, the, the needful
things that they had to to go

1080
00:59:58,400 --> 00:59:59,800
out on these missions and so
forth.

1081
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,480
Then he started helping people
who are immigrating into the

1082
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,200
area he started, he basically
was he was 100% committed to the

1083
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:13,760
gospel.
And then he when this when when,

1084
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:17,440
when everything went S he he
put, he was the one that was the

1085
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,120
primary.
Investor in the Kirtland safety

1086
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,000
Society and he lost all of his
money in that too.

1087
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:30,960
He sold everything he had to
come to be in Zion and then he

1088
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,800
and a Long story short is that
basically he he left Kirtland

1089
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,480
with nothing but it.
He says that he in his journal

1090
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,120
he says with nothing but a a a
broken down old wagon and 1/2

1091
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:49,760
lame horse and he and his family
of I think six or seven kids set

1092
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:56,000
off for far West and they left.
They left Kirtland literally

1093
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,880
without even food to eat.
They have to beg for food along

1094
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,080
the way along the trail.
And there's one there's one time

1095
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,720
when he in his journal where he
said that they they pulled up to

1096
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,120
this this this farmhouse and
they came up to the house and

1097
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,680
his little son wanted to go with
him So he so he came up to his

1098
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,720
farm this farmhouse and this guy
comes to the door and he and he

1099
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,560
said listening star.
He says we we've we've been

1100
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,440
travelling I've got my family
out here and we haven't eaten in

1101
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,920
in in a couple of days.
Could you could you spare a

1102
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,600
little food for my family and I
and the guy says he looked down

1103
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,840
at the little boy and says So
what what's your name the son.

1104
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:39,760
And the boy says, well, my name
is Joseph Smith Tanner and the

1105
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,320
guy heard him say that name and
he slammed the door in his face.

1106
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,360
Oh jeez.
Sent him to go, sent him to go.

1107
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,480
Sent him packing and just a day
or two later his his youngest

1108
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,000
daughter succumbed to starvation
and died and they'd left.

1109
01:01:54,000 --> 01:02:00,000
Had to bury her on the trail so
so and then then when they when

1110
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,800
they finally got to where they
were going then he was called on

1111
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,960
a mission and had to leave his
wife and again pretty much

1112
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,440
destitute to go on one of the
first missions that was that was

1113
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,920
done.
But when when he came back from

1114
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,480
his mission he he brought this
note because no the Smith had

1115
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,840
given him a note for the for the
payment of the temple.

1116
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,080
When he paid the loan off he
gave him a note you know to

1117
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,200
repay him for that and he came
back from his mission and he

1118
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,520
presented Joseph a note.
This is before he went on his

1119
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,160
mission.
He got just got called to go on

1120
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,840
his mission and before he went
on his mission, he came to

1121
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,960
Joseph and said he handed the
note, says Joseph.

1122
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,760
What would you like to do with
this note?

1123
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,920
And Joseph looked at him and
says Brother Tanner, he called

1124
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,160
him Father Tanner.
Actually that's Father Tanner,

1125
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,200
You know where we are
financially, he says, what would

1126
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,440
you like me to do with this?
And John Tanner took the note

1127
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,800
back out of Joseph Smith's
hands, carefully tore it into

1128
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:10,440
pieces and threw it on the
ground and said, this gospel has

1129
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,640
given me more than everything
else that I ever had in my life.

1130
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:19,040
And I basically I forgive the
debt and I'm leaving now to go

1131
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,920
on my mission.
Holy cow.

1132
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,880
See and and it's it's all sorts
of stories.

1133
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,000
I.
Got a cool story?

1134
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,480
It is awesome.
Story and and look, I I think

1135
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,120
those are the stories that we
don't quite hear enough, right?

1136
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:39,000
I I think because, look, in
Mormonism today, and I and

1137
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,800
you're talking to a
fundamentalist, right?

1138
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,800
So in Mormonism today, we don't
have people tearing down our

1139
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,520
houses.
We don't have people busting

1140
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,640
into our houses, right.
It's yeah, it's pretty safe for

1141
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:52,680
even a guy like me to hang out
right there.

1142
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,280
There's not a lot of issues we
have.

1143
01:03:54,840 --> 01:04:02,000
But sometimes that ease of life
breeds a certain entitlement, I

1144
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:02,920
guess.
Right.

1145
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,520
And, and I wonder today, how
many people would have had,

1146
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,760
quite frankly, just the guts,
right?

1147
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,840
Just the guts to stick it out,
right.

1148
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,440
You're gonna you're gonna go.
You're gonna give everything you

1149
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,120
got financially, You're gonna
lose a kid along the way, going

1150
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,760
to another place that you would
eventually be kicked out of.

1151
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,680
I'm guessing that Tanner had
some notes in the Kirtland

1152
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,040
Safety Society, right?
Yeah.

1153
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:29,880
And so I'm sure.
He But he he was, he was the one

1154
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,960
of the major investors in it.
Yeah, so he lost everything in

1155
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:34,280
it, right?
He.

1156
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:35,080
Lost it all.
Yeah.

1157
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,000
And and and he's like, no, we're
we're we're still in this.

1158
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,560
We're we're gonna go, what,
what?

1159
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,560
What do we gotta do?
I mean, to me that's not that's

1160
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,600
not just inspiring, but I got a
good friend who whenever he

1161
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,160
hears anything tough or manly,
he's like, that's straight up

1162
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,600
gangster.
And to be honest with you, John

1163
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,640
Tanner, a straight up gangster,
I mean.

1164
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,000
OK.
But but the there's one, there's

1165
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,760
one other little caveat, though
not not really.

1166
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,320
It's so much a caveat as kind of
the end of the story, if you

1167
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:10,160
will, of John Tanner.
So he he remained faithful but

1168
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,880
that that that day when he tore
up that note.

1169
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,920
Joseph Smith looked him in the
eyes and he said John Tanner he

1170
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,120
says I promise you in the name
of the Lord that dear family

1171
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:28,000
will never want for bread again
And and and his and his family

1172
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,400
came out to Utah that a lot of
people here in Utah know about

1173
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:37,080
OC Tanner company his his
descendants now have been the

1174
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,840
the president of BYU Hawaii you
know and I'm the personal

1175
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,640
friends of Trace Tanner and I
mean his his his sister actually

1176
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,400
married one of the one of the
most wealthy individuals in the

1177
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,800
church today.
They have all done extremely

1178
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,000
well financially and
interestingly enough, they've

1179
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:57,560
all, as far as I know have
maintained and and remained

1180
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,120
faithful to the gospel of Jesus
Christ.

1181
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,280
So.
So you know that that prophecy

1182
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,040
has been literally fulfilled
because of this mess.

1183
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,040
Yeah, it's pretty cool anyway.
Well, and when when you start

1184
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,400
working down the road like that,
sorry and no.

1185
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,880
No problem.
When you look at stories like

1186
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,440
that, sometimes we think to
ourselves, what does it matter,

1187
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,040
right?
What does it matter?

1188
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,960
My contention is what we do here
has ripples through eternity

1189
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:31,400
that we can never on this side
of the veil without without the

1190
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,520
help of heaven, do we ever get a
glimpse of of what that is.

1191
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,520
I'm sure in his wildest dreams,
John Tanner would have never

1192
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,320
imagined that his family would
get back to the positions that

1193
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,520
they were in, in a faraway land
outside of the United States

1194
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,320
during that time.
Yeah, yeah.

1195
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,640
It it really is just an amazing,
amazing thing.

1196
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,320
So, so after the the Garland
period and we had the the Far

1197
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,360
West period we know what
happened with that and then and

1198
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,800
then they then they then they
moved you know from there back

1199
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,120
you know to because of the
extermination order and so forth

1200
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,720
with Governor Boggs they moved
back to what is today Na Vu.

1201
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:13,640
But back then it was called
commerce.

1202
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,840
And so let me, let me let me
pull up a couple things here.

1203
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,680
I want to show you a few a few
things here so.

1204
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,760
And I'm glad you're getting to
that because I feel like that

1205
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,560
when the announcement came out,
everyone was like, you know, oh,

1206
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,880
we got the Kirtland Temple and.
And that's great, right?

1207
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:36,080
I mean, yeah, you know that
that's that's amazing to have to

1208
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,240
to to know that that edifice has
kind of changed hands.

1209
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,520
But I feel like some of the
stuff that was in NABU kind of

1210
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,320
got brushed to the side a little
bit, right?

1211
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:50,040
But there's some amazing history
there that that I was just in

1212
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,480
NABU last summer and you know,
there were some places that were

1213
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:57,040
just off limits because it was
the Community of Christ and they

1214
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,520
weren't giving tours that I
understand now will be open to

1215
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:01,640
the public, right?
Yeah.

1216
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,720
Yeah, yeah, that's gonna be
awesome.

1217
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,760
Not not to be too tongue in
cheek here, but I think some of

1218
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,760
the stuff in Nabu actually
eclipses the the, the, the

1219
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,600
purchase of the of the Kirtland
Temple.

1220
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:15,520
Right.
Yeah, I say.

1221
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,399
Eclipses.
I see what you.

1222
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:21,439
Did I'm I'm pretty excited about
this, but in a just a couple of

1223
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,399
weeks from now, Well, about 3
weeks from now the we are I have

1224
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:30,080
a another tour that's gonna be
going out to the NABU area for

1225
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:33,920
the great 2024 April 8th
Eclipse.

1226
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,880
And there's some really
fascinating aspects of that

1227
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,319
whole Eclipse thing.
I don't know how much you know

1228
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:41,080
about all that there, Dave, but.
It's a big deal.

1229
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:45,960
We me and my family are planning
on, so where we we live, I think

1230
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:51,000
they're saying right around
9597% of an eclipse, but I

1231
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,080
haven't.
I haven't told the the rest of

1232
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,600
the family yet this, but I have
a feeling that morning we're

1233
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,200
just going to wake up and maybe
take a drive to Nabu.

1234
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,560
We're only about 5 1/2 hours,
six hours away.

1235
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,000
I might be like, let's go get
Donuts.

1236
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,080
And then the second we hit the
car, I might just.

1237
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:10,240
Keep going to Naboo.
Keep going northeast and be like

1238
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:11,840
I took a wrong turn.
My bad.

1239
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:16,439
Yeah, I think that would be
pretty funny to be able to do to

1240
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,200
do that.
But but for there's there's

1241
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,359
really some interesting things.
And without going into too much

1242
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:25,640
detail, because this is this is
a a a very deep and symbolic

1243
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,520
subject as far as these
eclipses, but basically in a

1244
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,319
nutshell.
Want more from the Mormon

1245
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:35,720
Renegade podcast?
Head over to the Mormon Renegade

1246
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,640
Rumble page to see all the
videos from the podcast and the

1247
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,840
Fundamental news Program for
free.

1248
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,240
Still not enough?
Then join the Mormon Renegade

1249
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,319
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join button.

1250
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:53,920
And for $5 a month you can have
access to podcast transcripts,

1251
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:58,440
Renegade exclusives, as well as
weekly Life Stream show with the

1252
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:01,920
host Dave Sanders.
Click the link in this episode's

1253
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:07,360
show notes today.
In a nutshell, you have the two

1254
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,960
promised lands that are
mentioned by Christ in the Book

1255
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,000
of Mormon, right?
You have basically Jerusalem,

1256
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,640
the New Jerusalem, and
interestingly enough they are,

1257
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,520
they are situated on the earth
such that they are on opposite

1258
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,400
sides, pretty close.
So when Jerusalem is in the

1259
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,520
night time, we are in the day
and vice versa.

1260
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,040
So when you have a a total
eclipse over the United States,

1261
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,440
that promised land and then you
have the Jerusalem is already at

1262
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:33,560
night time on the other side of
the earth on it on it's promised

1263
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,400
land.
When you have both both the

1264
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,880
promised lands and simultaneous
darkness, that's kind of not a

1265
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,480
good omen.
It's kind of a bad omen.

1266
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,560
No, no.
That's one you're gonna wanna

1267
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,000
pay attention to, right?
I mean, it's far, it's far as

1268
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,000
size of the times.
That's one you probably should

1269
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,480
write down somewhere that's
gonna get some weight later.

1270
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:55,200
Yeah.
And and and so in in 2017, we

1271
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,680
know that there was the eclipse
that went from the northeastern

1272
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,560
part of the United, see, the
northwestern part of the United

1273
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:04,560
States down to the southeast.
And then seven years, which is 1

1274
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:09,640
Shmita Hebrew cycle, right.
Basically seven years later you

1275
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,880
have this other eclipse.
So.

1276
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,560
So the one goes from sea to
shining sea across the United

1277
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,920
States darkening the entire
United States at least in some

1278
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,080
degree now And you know the
totality is only maybe I think

1279
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,240
what is it 50 or 60 miles wide
or something like that.

1280
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,720
But, but, but the.
But the the effect of it, you

1281
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,040
know, all the way out to like
where where it's only like you

1282
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:33,920
know 10% or whatever eclipsed
goes all the way across America

1283
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:35,040
and that.
So.

1284
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,560
So there there's some shadow
pretty much everywhere across

1285
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,640
the United States.
And then you have this other one

1286
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,040
and it's coming in.
It's coming in, yeah.

1287
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,120
And it's going the opposite
direction across the United

1288
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,120
States from the southwest to the
northeast.

1289
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,440
Interestingly enough the people
have said the first eclipse

1290
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:54,400
actually crossed.
I think what was it like 10 or

1291
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,640
11 cities named Salem like
Jerusalem.

1292
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:00,720
The the the city of Salem,
basically.

1293
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,000
Right.
And this one is gonna be

1294
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,480
interesting.
Don't know if you've heard of

1295
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:07,800
this one yet or not, Dave, but
basically the second eclipse

1296
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,560
coming up here next month is
going to be crossing.

1297
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,280
There's seven cities in the
United States and one city in

1298
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:23,360
Canada by the name of Nineveh.
And if you know, if you, if you

1299
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,480
know your, your New Testament
history.

1300
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:30,800
Nineveh is a city that Jonah
actually went to, to after he

1301
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,040
was, you know, swallowed by the
wheel and all that kind of

1302
01:12:33,480 --> 01:12:36,120
stuff.
But he went to to to warn them

1303
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:37,720
that they're about to be
destroyed.

1304
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,480
And when he went and warned him,
he said, I I give you 40 days to

1305
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:46,440
repent or you're done.
Oh my goodness.

1306
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:48,320
OK.
So that's the other thing that's

1307
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,080
fascinating though, is that the
the the Ninevehs that are in in

1308
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:55,280
alignment with this eclipse are
the only Ninevehs in the United

1309
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,800
States.
No, no other states have a

1310
01:12:57,800 --> 01:12:59,400
Nineveh.
There's no Nineveh but

1311
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,160
California or or Oregon or
Washington or, you know, or

1312
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:07,800
Maryland or Florida that's going
through it.

1313
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,680
It's literally going right over
the top of every every Nineveh

1314
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:16,720
in the US And then this is the
other thing that's fascinating.

1315
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,360
So I don't know how much your
listeners know about the

1316
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,520
Heartland research on the Book
of Mormon that we've been

1317
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,280
bringing out and bringing
forward and so forth.

1318
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,280
But if our geography of the Book
of Mormon is correct, you have

1319
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,840
in the Book of Mormon where the
where the Ghanaian robbers have

1320
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,680
gotten so powerful that the
Nephites had to abandon their

1321
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:40,360
cities.
Actually, this is right before

1322
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,560
crisis is in Helaman, right,
right.

1323
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,600
They they had to abandon their
cities.

1324
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:51,800
They they gathered the Laconius
sends out a, a, a, you know, a,

1325
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,880
a letter basically to everybody
saying gather in the center of

1326
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,800
the lands.
So they gather in the center of

1327
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,520
their lands and they went South.
Well, if our geography is

1328
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,480
correct.
And and then Zarah Hemla is

1329
01:14:01,480 --> 01:14:03,920
where the Lord named it to with
Joseph Smith.

1330
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:07,520
And then doctrine Covenant
section 125, verse three in the

1331
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:10,240
in the LDS version of the
Doctrine Covenants.

1332
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:10,920
Basically.
Right.

1333
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,360
So it's 125 verse three and the
Lord tells Joseph Smith to build

1334
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:17,840
up a city on the land on the
other side of the river from

1335
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:22,040
Nauvoo and call it Zarah Hemla.
Yep.

1336
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,360
Now why would the Lord call that
Zarah Hemla if it isn't?

1337
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,760
Is he a God of confusion?
He's just trying to confuse

1338
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,560
everybody.
Or was it just symbolic?

1339
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,280
Or was that actually the the the
ancient side of the city of

1340
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,520
Zarahema?
Well, we don't know for sure if

1341
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,360
that if it was, but there's a
lot of archaeological evidence

1342
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,240
to suggest that it was.
And there's a lot more to that

1343
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:41,840
than that.
But then, but bottom line is

1344
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,120
that if that was Zarahema and
the Ohio River Valley was

1345
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,800
bountiful, those are the two
places that the people were

1346
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,920
gathering from.
And if Ohio and Iowa, if you go

1347
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,080
in the center of their lands,
they're going to end up where?

1348
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,640
In Illinois, if you go South
from Illinois, you're going to

1349
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,320
go in the bottom half of
Illinois, the bottom portion of

1350
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,000
Illinois, which is bounded by
the Ohio River on the east and

1351
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:06,600
the Mississippi River on the
West.

1352
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:11,560
And about 35 or 40 miles north
of that, of that confluence

1353
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:17,200
where those two rivers meet.
OK, At Fort Defiance, there are

1354
01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:21,960
about 43 ancient fortifications
in the Shawnee National Forest

1355
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,720
there that go across that N that
northern portion of it right

1356
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:27,160
there.
Oh, wow.

1357
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:31,120
And we and we believe that that
was the Nephites.

1358
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,800
When they moved into the center
of their lands, they they threw

1359
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,520
up some some rude defenses along
that area.

1360
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,720
So they had three sides were
protected by mile wide rivers.

1361
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,040
But you can't sneak across the
river, right?

1362
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,080
No.
And and if you're an army and

1363
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,320
you have and you have a bunch of
canoes, I mean, all you got to

1364
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,000
do is just, you know, every time
a canoe arrives, you just kill

1365
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,680
everybody but one.
You send them back to go get

1366
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:54,360
more guys.
Right.

1367
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:56,840
Yeah.
And then you can then when they

1368
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,280
come in, you kill them.
So it's easy, it's easy to

1369
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,480
defend that area.
So that northern part of it was

1370
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:04,360
the area that they had to really
defend and that's where they

1371
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,360
have all the rock walls
everywhere along the along the

1372
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,680
the Bluffs right there on the
southern tip of Illinois, which

1373
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:12,360
by the way is called Little
Egypt today.

1374
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:19,080
So interesting.
So in fact the main town there

1375
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:23,240
is Cairo, Cairo, it's Cairo,
Illinois.

1376
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:25,800
OK.
Anyway, so they actually call it

1377
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:27,880
Cairo.
So just so you know, I, I, I do

1378
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:31,960
not those of you from from
Cairo, I'm not mispronouncing

1379
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:33,040
your your town.
OK.

1380
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:39,320
So, so the reason why that is
significant is because these two

1381
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:43,080
eclipses happened in 2017 and
the one coming up here in a

1382
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:47,320
couple of weeks where if if you
follow the path of both of them,

1383
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,760
the area where they actually
intersect or cross each other is

1384
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,720
the southern tip of Illinois.
Oh, wow.

1385
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,200
So what significance might that
be if that is the place where

1386
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:02,440
Laconius gathered Nephites in
preparation for seven years of

1387
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,240
of famine, 7 years of siege.
I think that's really

1388
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:10,000
fascinating to think that the
first eclipse may have been the

1389
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,720
beginning, the sign of the
beginning of the seven years of

1390
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:15,400
plenty.
And the second eclipse coming up

1391
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:21,120
here this next month may be the
sign of the the, the, the

1392
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,280
beginning of the seven years of
not plenty, the the beginning of

1393
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:26,040
the seven years of siege or
famine.

1394
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,520
That may be that may be, you
know, preceding or heralding the

1395
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:34,000
coming of Jesus Christ back to
America when he comes back to

1396
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,640
Adamante Amon.
And the cleansing of America may

1397
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:42,800
be beginning soon.
Yeah, no, you know what?

1398
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:47,000
I never play the game of Pin the
Tail on the Apocalypse because

1399
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,440
it's never very rarely a a
winning game.

1400
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,560
However, that's a great one.
How?

1401
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:57,840
However, I will say this, we
need to pay attention to those

1402
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,200
things, right?
History may not necessarily

1403
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:05,040
repeat verbatim, but it often
rhymes really closely.

1404
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:12,480
And certainly I watch these
things with with with some some

1405
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:17,280
anticipation right and some in a
in a raised eyebrow like what do

1406
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:19,640
we got?
What's what's going on and when

1407
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:24,640
when when things start lining up
so to speak and and it gets to

1408
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,880
the point of being ridiculous
and define the laws of

1409
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,400
statistical probability, it's
probably a good idea that you

1410
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:34,360
you perk up and take some notice
right.

1411
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,040
Not saying it's going to happen.
Right.

1412
01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:40,520
Well, what's the her parm in
maybe getting your spiritual

1413
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,040
house and physical house in
order?

1414
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,640
Right.
Maybe now is the a good time

1415
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:49,040
because because if the
scriptures are correct once once

1416
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:52,680
the once the the the the the the
crap hits the fan scenario

1417
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,640
begins like with Egypt and so
forth.

1418
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,040
I mean they they weren't able to
grow their way out of it.

1419
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,720
I mean they either had seven
years supply of food or they

1420
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,560
didn't you know and the same
thing with Laconias.

1421
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,320
I mean that you know they they
they had that they they left

1422
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,240
their their farms their houses
they they didn't have a way to

1423
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:12,200
grow their way out of it.
They literally had to bring

1424
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,240
seven years supply of food with
them and because of that they

1425
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,600
starved out the Gadiant robbers.
Yeah, the Gadiant robbers

1426
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,160
couldn't exist except for they
could plunder and steal and

1427
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:22,960
whatever.
And after the game was all gone,

1428
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,680
they're like well, now what?
And they had to abandon their

1429
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:29,840
their design to to to kill off
the neat bites because they they

1430
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:31,320
were starving to death
themselves.

1431
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,920
So that's an interesting
scenario.

1432
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,480
If the Book of Mormon is a type
and shadow of the United States

1433
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:40,560
of America, which we believe
that it is, then, then, then,

1434
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,040
then why was that put in there?
I mean you know what what was

1435
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,120
the purpose of of telling that
particular part of the story

1436
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,520
when when Mormon and Marone, I
basically say that you know

1437
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,560
Jesus Christ has shown you unto
me and I've seen your.

1438
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,200
I've seen your day, I've seen
your doing.

1439
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,560
And then Mormon basically pulls
out of their history

1440
01:19:57,800 --> 01:19:59,960
specifically those things that
he knows.

1441
01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:02,880
The Lord needs to have us know
in our day.

1442
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:05,160
Right.
That I don't think it's any kind

1443
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,240
of coincidence, but he put that
in there how they how they

1444
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,240
basically had to abandon their
cities and move into the center

1445
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,640
of their lands and then and
bring their seven-year supply of

1446
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,760
food and that saved their
behinds.

1447
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:19,640
Yeah, sort of speed.
You know, look.

1448
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,760
So.
Just just from a practical

1449
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:28,320
standpoint, right, even during
COVID, the economy stopped for a

1450
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:30,880
few days but then picked right
back up, right.

1451
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,560
I mean, we started climbing out
of that hole.

1452
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:37,480
We haven't had financial crisis
since 2008 and we didn't, you

1453
01:20:37,480 --> 01:20:39,840
know, look, we didn't handle
that real well.

1454
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,480
Printing our way out of it
wasn't good.

1455
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,000
We we, you know, the world's in
upheaval at the moment on on the

1456
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:48,000
world stage right The Jill.
Wait, wait.

1457
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,200
Now, now, now, hold now.
Hold on just a second, David.

1458
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,360
We don't.
I mean we, I mean that's that's

1459
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:55,680
space that this is really, I
mean we don't have a, we don't

1460
01:20:55,680 --> 01:21:00,760
have a a, you know, a, a, a, a,
a, an election year going on

1461
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,560
here, right?
No, no, not not that.

1462
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:05,960
We don't have the new world
order trying to push a, a, a

1463
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:09,440
global currency that, you know,
a, a a a paperless.

1464
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,880
Yeah, a, a digital currency.
We're not in, we're not in three

1465
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:14,920
wars, are we?
Well.

1466
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,240
No, I mean, they're they're
they're interventions.

1467
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:23,800
And and we don't have, we don't
have China looking at Taiwan and

1468
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,040
going maybe this would be a good
time.

1469
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,120
You know it it seems to me, I
mean and the economy is just

1470
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,880
booming.
I mean we all know how well the

1471
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:35,760
economy is doing all over the
country, right.

1472
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,240
So we're we're we're we're
killing it.

1473
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:41,240
So I mean, so really there's I I
can't see anything to worry

1474
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,600
about, really.
Inflation's a good thing.

1475
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:46,200
Don't worry about that.
So.

1476
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,600
Yeah, it makes your money get
worth more, right?

1477
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,880
Because you know, $10 today is
worth, you know, $14.00 tomorrow

1478
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:55,440
and it's worth $30.00 the next
day anyway, so right.

1479
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:56,920
What could?
Go.

1480
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,520
It's the it's the it's the
Venezuela you know scenario

1481
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:03,760
anyway so enough about that.
But but bottom line is, is that

1482
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,680
yeah, there's it, it it it looks
to me like there's at least the

1483
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:09,760
possibility of a perfect storm.
And the other thing that's

1484
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:13,960
interesting is that the yeah,
in, in in in the prophecies.

1485
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:18,400
It says that if you're it says
if you are, if you are watching

1486
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,480
for the signs, then you won't be
caught like a thief of the

1487
01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:22,560
night.
You remember that, right?

1488
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,000
Yep.
OK, well, that tells you two

1489
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:27,560
really important things.
Number one is God's gonna

1490
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,520
provide signs.
Right.

1491
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,840
Well, he says that too.
He says that in Genesis, right?

1492
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:36,240
He He puts the the, the stars
and the sun and the moon in the

1493
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,880
in the heavens is for times.
For signs and for seasons for.

1494
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,520
Thank you.
I'm having a hard time spitting

1495
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:43,720
it out.
Signs and seasons?

1496
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,720
Yep, that's exactly right.
Yeah, and so and so if if God's

1497
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,120
gonna provide signs, and if
we're watching for him, he says

1498
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,120
it's not gonna, it's not gonna
be a big surprise to you, right?

1499
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:54,640
Like like a thief in the night
would be.

1500
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,680
In other words, if you're paying
attention then it won't come as

1501
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:00,560
a complete surprise though, that
it does say that no man knows

1502
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,280
the day or the hour, right?
Right.

1503
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,720
But that doesn't say anything
about the week or the month of

1504
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,040
the year, right?
Right.

1505
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,360
Right, Yeah.
At at least no direction you're

1506
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:11,480
heading.
Yeah.

1507
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,880
So anyway, so again, not trying
to make any any hard predictions

1508
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,800
or whatever, but these are
interesting signs in the heavens

1509
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,560
that are that we need to be
paying attention to the fact

1510
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,720
that they're almost exactly 7
years apart from each other.

1511
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:26,240
Yeah.
The fact that that that these

1512
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:28,880
are that there's been preceded
by all these blood moons.

1513
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,080
And if you're paying attention
to the Hebrew calendar system

1514
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:32,960
and all that kind of stuff, I
mean.

1515
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:36,920
And and I think there's kind of
a general idea that that things

1516
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,640
are just something's weird's
going on.

1517
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,760
There's a lot of people who are
just kind of like this is just

1518
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,920
not normal.
Something's going on.

1519
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:48,320
I have.
Speaking of that, I have a

1520
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:50,880
really good friend.
I mean, we're we're Thai, we're

1521
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:55,440
like brothers, but he's not
Mormon at all and he's pretty

1522
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:59,040
light hearted and jovial, kind
of a, you know, eat, drink and

1523
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:02,520
be merry kind of guy.
But even he says we were talking

1524
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,440
the other night, even he says,
does it feel like we're hurtling

1525
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:07,680
towards an event and we're just
picking up speed?

1526
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:11,720
And I thought that was a perfect
way of summing up what I think a

1527
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:15,440
lot of people feel, even even
people who aren't particularly

1528
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:16,720
religious.
Right.

1529
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:17,480
Yeah.
Yeah, You're.

1530
01:24:17,480 --> 01:24:18,600
Right.
But they just feel it.

1531
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:22,240
So we're we're, I I thought that
term hurtling towards an event

1532
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,840
was probably as an apartment
description I've heard.

1533
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:29,000
Yeah, but the the, the the cool
thing is, is that there's gonna

1534
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:33,200
be some some bad events, but the
ultimate event is gonna be

1535
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,000
freaking awesome.
Yeah, you know, so there's gonna

1536
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,560
be Christ, Christ coming back
and going.

1537
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:41,600
Here I am.
You go.

1538
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:42,400
Wait, wait.
Who are you?

1539
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:43,440
What?
What are those?

1540
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:45,880
What are those marks in your
hands and in your feet?

1541
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:50,280
Oh, oh man, we blew it, didn't
we, 2000 years ago.

1542
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:51,680
Right.
We totally blew it.

1543
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,320
We killed our savior.
Unbelievable, you know?

1544
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,040
But luckily he came back alive,
so that was all good.

1545
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:02,640
But anyway, so, so anyways, I I
just feel that that there's some

1546
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,040
really interesting things going
on there that I think we're

1547
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:08,320
going to be going to be
interesting to to watch that.

1548
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,360
So let's talk, let's talk again.
Let's, let's jump back into for

1549
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:13,960
a second some NABU stuff, OK?
Yeah, absolutely.

1550
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:15,280
Because that's because that's
that.

1551
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,520
We need to kind of get this
wrapped up and think your, your,

1552
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,680
your listeners are gonna be
going, what the heck?

1553
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:24,160
Anyway, So let's go to right
here.

1554
01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:28,280
OK.
I think it's this one right here

1555
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,160
and go to that.
OK, Can you see it now?

1556
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,800
Yep.
OK, so this is obviously one of

1557
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,600
my tour groups there in front of
the Beautiful rebuilt Nabu

1558
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,560
Temple.
Now the Nabu Temple was similar

1559
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:46,480
to the Kirtland Temple in that
it was actually designed and

1560
01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:50,680
built based on visions that
Joseph Smith had of what the

1561
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,320
what the temple should look like
and how it should be designed.

1562
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,840
And it's it's got some
similarities to the Kirtland

1563
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:59,400
Temple but there's some some
some some significant

1564
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,640
differences as well.
It does have a big room in the

1565
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:07,920
bottom of it but but it had had
more rooms it was it was a

1566
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:12,160
little bit bigger and so forth.
So anyway a little bit more

1567
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:14,760
about the about the the the
temple there.

1568
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:18,880
Let me see here.
OK that's one of my favorite

1569
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:22,160
pictures of the Nauvoo Temple
from out by pretty kind of close

1570
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:27,320
to where the the the river is
the Mississippi River right

1571
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,280
there or what's called Lake
Cooper today.

1572
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:33,320
But you can kind of see I I want
to point out something that's

1573
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,720
really fascinating.
It's another it's a symbolic

1574
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:38,920
thing here and I and I failed to
show it in the in the Kirtland

1575
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,200
temple but you can probably
remember the Spire of the

1576
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:47,960
Kirtland temple.
In Hebrew symbolism a a a square

1577
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:52,240
or a rectangle which has four
corners is is considered to be a

1578
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:55,040
representation of what it's the
earth.

1579
01:26:55,520 --> 01:27:01,960
OK on the other hand a circle or
a or a sphere is considered to

1580
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,320
be a representation of of God or
eternity eternal life.

1581
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:08,880
You know forever without no no
beginning no end those kinds of

1582
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:09,800
concepts.
Right.

1583
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:14,800
And and so you have you have
both of these if you take a look

1584
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,960
at the Spire of the Nagui temple
or the OR the Spire of the of

1585
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:21,080
the Kirtland temple.
The base that you see there this

1586
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,160
this base is a rectangle.
OK.

1587
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:26,840
The one of the Kirtland temple
is actually a square and then at

1588
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,080
the top you have kind of 1/2
Dome and you have 3 little

1589
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,760
circles up on top, then you have
Moroni on the top of that right?

1590
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:35,600
Right.
OK.

1591
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:40,880
So one of those three circles
represent we we think that that

1592
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:44,040
represents the three degrees of
floor which was which bill that

1593
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,840
Joseph Smith you know as far as
that our, our, our particular

1594
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:52,520
understanding of the of the plan
of salvation is is different

1595
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,480
than almost any other religion
on the earth, right.

1596
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:59,080
I don't think any other religion
shares the same you know

1597
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:01,960
understanding of the of what
happens after this life.

1598
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:07,520
But anyway and then in between
the the the three spheres and

1599
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:11,320
the and the and the rectangle at
the bottom the base is an

1600
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:13,400
Octagon structure right.
Mm hmm.

1601
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:19,760
And interestingly enough the the
Octagon structure is is it's a

1602
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:21,960
fascinating thing.
It it's it's the it's the it's

1603
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:25,440
the the transition between a
circle and a square would be an

1604
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:29,480
Octagon geometrically.
OK And if you take a look at

1605
01:28:29,480 --> 01:28:32,000
that, you can actually see it.
I'm looking over here because

1606
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:33,120
I've got another screen over
here.

1607
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:38,160
No, you're good anyway.
So anyway, oh, I guess we're

1608
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,000
actually looking at the picture
right now anyway, right?

1609
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:41,600
So let me, let me, let me use
this.

1610
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:43,600
So this is the octagonal portion
here.

1611
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,800
And then you have the three
circles up here and then the the

1612
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:52,600
base down here.
All right so so some years ago

1613
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:58,480
the the when the the the Salt
Lake church was building the the

1614
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:02,040
the San Diego temple, the
architect that was working on

1615
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:06,320
the San Diego Temple said that
this architect was was pretty

1616
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:10,280
enamored with this particular
geometric figure.

1617
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:12,880
It was kind of like an Octagon
within a circle.

1618
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,240
And sometimes there was a circle
within an Octagon.

1619
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,400
But anyways, love that.
And somebody started asking, So

1620
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,000
is that is that what kind of a
symbol is that?

1621
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,760
What is that a symbol of?
And nobody kind of knew what it

1622
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:26,240
was.
And so they ended up asking this

1623
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:30,240
guy that that a lot of people
here in the LDS church now it

1624
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:34,240
was oh, now I'm going to forget
his name here for a second.

1625
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:39,200
It's oh, Hugh Nibbley.
Hugh Nibbley was a was a a a

1626
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,320
scholar BYU for a number of
years anyway.

1627
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:45,360
And he and and he said, Oh well
that's the seal of Melchizedek.

1628
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:46,760
He said what What do you mean
this?

1629
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:48,320
What does this what do you mean
the seal of Melchizedek?

1630
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:51,800
He says yeah there's there's
ancient mosaics that that have

1631
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,720
this seal.
It has a it has a depiction that

1632
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,880
says it says Melchizedek over
the top of it.

1633
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:00,360
And he's standing at an altar
and on the altar is this seal,

1634
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:01,680
which is his seal.
Yep.

1635
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,400
But actually, if you think about
it, it's not really

1636
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:09,400
Melchizedek's seal because the
priesthood was originally called

1637
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:12,480
the priesthood after the Holy
Order of the Son of God, and

1638
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:15,160
then it was changed to the
Melchizedek Priesthood because

1639
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,840
of the because it's not
overusing the name, right.

1640
01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:22,040
Anyway, so the the idea
basically was that that that

1641
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,520
actually that seal in is
actually the seal of Christ.

1642
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,920
OK.
So it's the Octagon shape.

1643
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,880
If if, if anybody had been to
the Salt Lake Temple, for

1644
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:35,960
example, if you walk up to the
front doors, they have these

1645
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,960
glass doors that slide open when
you come up to them, they slide

1646
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:42,120
open and there's a little emblem
on each on each of the two doors

1647
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,920
as it slides.
And it's a, it's a little square

1648
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:48,440
piece of glass with a second
square piece of glass and the

1649
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,960
one is actually rotated about
45�� from the other and then it's

1650
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,240
stuck together and then there's
a little beehive on the front of

1651
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:58,800
it.
OK, that creates an 8 sided AN88

1652
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,840
pointed * if you if you connect
all the outside edges of the

1653
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:03,880
star, basically creates an
Octagon right?

1654
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:06,240
Right.
Anyway so that on the the San

1655
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,560
Diego temple if you look down
straight on it from a from a

1656
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:12,280
drone or from a satellite, it
forms one of these big

1657
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:16,400
configurations.
And on the outside edifice, the

1658
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,640
outside of the edifice basically
of the San Diego Templars over

1659
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:22,040
10,000 times the seal of
Melchizedek.

1660
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,560
And it's and it's actually I I
found it in Catholic churches in

1661
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:31,200
in in in Italy and in Rome and
and and and Pisa and other

1662
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,520
places.
It's a it's a not it's not

1663
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:38,520
common but it's but actually if
you think of a a lot of the the

1664
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:44,040
most like some of the some of
the biggest cathedrals and

1665
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,440
buildings.
They'll have the same kind of

1666
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:51,400
general motif which is a a a a
square or rectangle base going

1667
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:54,920
up to a Dome and with an Octagon
in between.

1668
01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:58,520
OK.
So a lot of government buildings

1669
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,000
will have that but these two
temples have this.

1670
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:05,000
And basically what it signifies,
at least one of the things that

1671
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:09,960
signifies from a symbolic
standpoint is the only way that

1672
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:14,800
you can get from earth down here
to God up here is through Jesus

1673
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:17,720
Christ.
Which is why we go to the

1674
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:23,080
temples that that's kind of the
to move us from earth through

1675
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,280
Christ to God.
Yep.

1676
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:26,920
And all of us.
That's that's kind of our

1677
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,400
journey, right.
That's what we all are doing in

1678
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:30,360
this life.
Yep.

1679
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,800
So I think it's fascinating that
that actually that symbolism

1680
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:38,520
Joseph Smith was shown in vision
and and he actually embodied it

1681
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,320
in the temple.
Yep, which is pretty cool.

1682
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:45,440
It it's interesting too.
Being a surveyor I'm I'm

1683
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:51,120
obviously a little familiar with
geometry and and and I I do

1684
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:54,480
believe, I do believe in
something called sacred geometry

1685
01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:57,280
as well right.
Exactly that that comes into

1686
01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:00,760
play and and when we start
talking about squaring the

1687
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:05,440
circle, if you follow a lot of
old Egyptian things from around

1688
01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:10,160
the time of Abraham which has to
do with the with the temple it

1689
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:15,000
it's basically taking the cosmos
which would be round and placing

1690
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,280
it within a square structure and
you've squared the circle.

1691
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:21,560
And interestingly enough, we
find if, and you could speak to

1692
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:24,720
this more than I could here,
Rod, but you find the same thing

1693
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:28,240
in some of the earthworks that
we find in the heartland of

1694
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:31,440
America where a lot of them are
squared circles.

1695
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,640
Oh yeah, no.
Combinations of circles,

1696
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:37,480
squares, and octagons.
Right.

1697
01:33:37,480 --> 01:33:39,280
Yep.
Like, like at the Newark

1698
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:42,080
Earthworks in Ohio.
Yeah, it's a two 2000 year

1699
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:45,960
earthwork that has the entire
Plan of Salvation encoded in its

1700
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:50,280
embankments.
Yep, 2000 years before our time.

1701
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:55,480
And look if if if we encode them
into our sacred spaces as

1702
01:33:55,480 --> 01:34:00,080
Mormons and and this is the and
and we believe what Joseph Smith

1703
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,880
said, that this is simply a
restoration and a continuation

1704
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:08,200
of those stories in the Bible,
in the Book of Mormon, we would

1705
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:13,120
expect to see those things in
their ancient architecture and

1706
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:14,920
earthworks as well.
Yeah.

1707
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:17,280
OK, so I I think you're gonna
find this one kind of

1708
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:22,240
fascinating as a as a surveyor.
You you can see it old maps.

1709
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:25,120
Yeah, this is A.
This is one of the earliest maps

1710
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:28,240
of Nauvoo.
OK And you can see the temple

1711
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:31,080
square right here in the center.
The the kind of a, the greenish

1712
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,960
color right here and each each
of the different lots, lots,

1713
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:36,840
1234 and so forth of each
difference on each different

1714
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:38,480
street.
So you have you know young St.

1715
01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:40,480
Knight St.
Mulholland St.

1716
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:43,480
Ripley St. and so forth.
This is where the temple sits

1717
01:34:43,480 --> 01:34:47,120
today and where it was sitting
or where it was proposed or was

1718
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,120
planning to be to be done.
I guess actually where it was

1719
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,720
actually built back in the in
the in the the Nabu period.

1720
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,200
If you take a look at these
these hash lines here that is

1721
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:02,920
marking a, a, a a a an elevation
change.

1722
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,040
An embankment.
Yep, an embankment.

1723
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:07,520
So this, so this is that.
So that as as you walk out of

1724
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,680
the temple here, this, this
drops off pretty dramatically,

1725
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:14,920
probably about a good 30 or 40
feet down by the time you get

1726
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,080
down to this road.
And then and then it drops and

1727
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:18,400
it continues to drop down this
way.

1728
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:21,200
But do you notice anything
interesting about this area

1729
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:24,560
right over here on the left hand
side, around 8, between 83 and

1730
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:30,440
82 and 78 and 79.
And was it 74?

1731
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:30,800
No.
No.

1732
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,120
Yeah.
What is it, 70?

1733
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:33,240
What is that?
I don't know.

1734
01:35:33,240 --> 01:35:36,600
I can't even read that it's.
Oh, it's 70 and 69.

1735
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:39,240
I guess it is.
What are those things right

1736
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:43,720
there?
Dude, it OK being a surveyor and

1737
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:46,360
looking at it as a surveyor, I
would say those were I would say

1738
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:49,000
those were mounds.
To me those look like small

1739
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:55,400
hills or mounds and and given
their positioning, I'd have to

1740
01:35:55,400 --> 01:36:00,120
go back and look.
But yeah, I mean 78 kind of,

1741
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:03,880
kind of drew my attention there
because of the way that's laid

1742
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:08,240
out, kind of almost
representative a little bit

1743
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:13,440
maybe of Orion's belt even.
The three stars of Orion, yeah.

1744
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,440
Yeah, I'm I'm just throwing
stuff against the wall here Rod.

1745
01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:19,200
But see they look like filter.
Or.

1746
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:23,000
Or or.
Bounce well the interesting

1747
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:26,480
thing I I I don't have a picture
of this I have the actual map

1748
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:31,360
here somewhere but but basically
if you go to the to the legend

1749
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,000
you know at the bottom right
hand side of the map but it it

1750
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:36,560
it actually says these are
mounds or tumalai.

1751
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:40,920
Now the word tumalai means mound
and and and there's and there

1752
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,720
are tumalai that have been found
in Israel.

1753
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:48,440
Burial mounds.
OK, these are burial mounds.

1754
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:52,040
It turns out that that that you
see this big mound right here

1755
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:54,200
right in the center between 83
and 82.

1756
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:56,640
Yep.
If you go back in church

1757
01:36:56,640 --> 01:37:00,280
history, you will find that many
times the brethren would meet at

1758
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:04,320
what they called the big mound.
That's where they were going.

1759
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:07,840
And look how big it is.
It is literally a block long.

1760
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,760
Yeah.
And and and and and it's wide

1761
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,800
basically it it completely
blocked off that street.

1762
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:15,880
There was there was no, you know
St. through there.

1763
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,280
But they they still had the,
the, the they were just

1764
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:21,840
sectioning everything off in
even squares, right.

1765
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:24,360
And they were doing this.
There's there's a couple of

1766
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,440
small mounds there on on the on
the left hand side of that.

1767
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,600
There's several more mounds up
here at 69 and 70.

1768
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:34,920
And what a lot of people don't
know is that there are dozens of

1769
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:38,120
mounds north of this area right
alongside the river.

1770
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:40,400
There's where the river bluff is
on this side.

1771
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:42,160
This is the east side of the
Mississippi River.

1772
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,240
There's numerous other mounds up
there that have all been dug

1773
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:47,520
into.
There's a family up there by the

1774
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,240
name of the Curly's.
They own a piece of property

1775
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:54,240
that has about 14 mounds on it.
Today they today they they

1776
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:56,280
they've been kind of fixed.
But when they first bought the

1777
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:59,040
property, they all kind of
looked like Donuts because

1778
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:02,760
because the early people in the
area, early settlers had gone in

1779
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:05,320
and dug into these mouths to
look and see what was in there.

1780
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:07,800
Right, right.
And so they so they so they just

1781
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:10,400
dug everything out of the center
and just left it all like that.

1782
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,520
And so now they've had Boy Scout
projects and so forth that have

1783
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,880
actually taken a lot of that and
and refilled it.

1784
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:18,320
They actually put plastic down
first so they can tell which

1785
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,440
which dirt was the original dirt
which where dirt is being

1786
01:38:21,440 --> 01:38:24,200
brought in and they
archaeologically have rebuilt

1787
01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:26,760
those mounds today.
I'm going to show you some

1788
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:28,840
pictures of those mounds in just
a couple seconds.

1789
01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:32,800
But but who are these mounds by
you know these are these are by

1790
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:36,600
the Hopewell Mound Builder
people and and if you know about

1791
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,360
our geography we're we're what
we're saying is is these help

1792
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:41,720
Mound Builder people are the
Nephites of the Book of Mormon.

1793
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:45,560
So Rod, has there been any GPR
that's been done out there,

1794
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:50,240
ground penetrating?
Radar, but more lidar than GPR.

1795
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:53,200
But yeah, there's been.
That mound was completely taken

1796
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:57,480
down after the Saints left.
There's there's, there's there's

1797
01:38:57,480 --> 01:38:58,880
no mound at all there.
Now.

1798
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,640
The church is doing something
out there, though right now

1799
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:04,920
they've got that area.
Oh, the last time I was out

1800
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:07,480
there in the fall, last fall,
like like September, October,

1801
01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:10,720
there was a there.
They had it fenced off so that

1802
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,880
people couldn't go in there.
And it looked like they might be

1803
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:14,640
doing some kind of
archaeological stuff, but I'm

1804
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,320
not sure if they are or not,
which by the way, so I'm going

1805
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:20,880
to, I'm going to show you, your
audience here just a little bit

1806
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:22,400
here.
So I'm wearing a particular

1807
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:24,000
shirt here, if you can see it.
Let's see if you can see.

1808
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:25,120
It right now.
I did.

1809
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:26,400
Nauvoo.
Oh, wait, wait.

1810
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:28,920
Yeah, Let let me, let me, let me
go out of the screen here.

1811
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:30,920
OK.
All right.

1812
01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:32,160
Can you see it better now?
Let me.

1813
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:36,880
See, it's absolutely.
Yep, this this is my I dig now,

1814
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:38,240
but can you see the bottom of it
there?

1815
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:38,920
Can you?
If I hold?

1816
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:40,680
Really.
Two to the Senior and Lucy

1817
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,560
Smith, Excuse me, Lucy Max Smith
site 2013.

1818
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:46,400
Yeah, OK, I have two of these
shirts.

1819
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:47,680
This is the right, the green
one.

1820
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:52,120
I have a blue one for the next
year which is 2014 and I have

1821
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:55,280
the opportunity to work with
called the bar.

1822
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:57,400
Let me let me see if I can show
you a few things here.

1823
01:39:57,480 --> 01:39:58,880
I'm going to show you the screen
again.

1824
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:01,600
OK so we'll go back to the
screen here.

1825
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:05,880
So this is the temple over here
right and it's showing the mound

1826
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:08,200
there.
Now this is this is one of my

1827
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:12,080
favorite shots I I got this from
my drone with a with a tour

1828
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:14,400
group there in the front of the
temple there and you can see

1829
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:17,760
back that direction.
Let me just show you a few

1830
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:19,080
pictures of the Naibu area.
So.

1831
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:22,480
To kind of get for people who've
maybe never been there before.

1832
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:26,640
So the this is the Mississippi
River has a big bend in it right

1833
01:40:26,640 --> 01:40:29,000
there.
You can see that this picture is

1834
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:30,800
looking kind of to the South.
Yep.

1835
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,960
And so South of there, if you go
around that bend and go down

1836
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,200
just a little bit further,
that's actually what's called

1837
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:43,560
Keokuk, Iowa.
Yep, this is on the This is

1838
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:45,520
obviously on the Illinois side
here.

1839
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:48,880
And then the river comes around
the the the other direction on

1840
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:51,600
the right hand side goes around
this big bend that goes up to

1841
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:54,920
what is called the right across
the river is Montrose and it

1842
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:59,320
goes up to Fort Madison.
I love that picture though.

1843
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,680
That was one one night when we
were there and it was just a

1844
01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:06,720
magical night with fireflies
everywhere and it was just

1845
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:08,160
awesome.
And got this, got this picture

1846
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:10,960
of the sun going down over over
Lake Cooper which is technically

1847
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,560
the Mississippi River.
All right.

1848
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,320
That is a piece of pottery.
OK.

1849
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:23,480
That that I was able to dig out
and when I when I was working

1850
01:41:23,480 --> 01:41:25,640
with that I was only there for a
couple of days.

1851
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:27,920
This is actually a piece of
pottery that was found.

1852
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:32,720
You can see the archaeological
little little trowel right down

1853
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:35,480
there in the in the bottom of
the picture there and this is a

1854
01:41:35,480 --> 01:41:38,720
couple of pieces of pottery that
were found that are that date

1855
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:41,640
into the Nabu period.
So these are actually pieces of

1856
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:44,600
pottery from Nabu when Joseph
Smith and Emma and those lived

1857
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:45,840
here.
There's another piece of pottery

1858
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:48,720
there with the with a nice
little pattern on it with a red

1859
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:53,520
piece of pattern there.
OK now this is Paul Debarth.

1860
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:59,760
He is the archaeological expert
in the in the community of

1861
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:01,040
Christ.
He basically is sending these

1862
01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:02,440
things out.
This is a this is one of the

1863
01:42:02,440 --> 01:42:05,800
pieces that that that I I found.
I found actually several pieces.

1864
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:08,600
I was only there working for a
couple of days, if you like.

1865
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:10,640
You look in the background of
this photograph here.

1866
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:13,280
You'll see that's that, that's
the the the Mansion House,

1867
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:16,520
Joseph Smith's house there.
Then there's a stop sign there.

1868
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:19,520
There's you can see there's a
road directly behind us.

1869
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:22,720
There's an actual intersection.
The intersection is a really

1870
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:25,240
important intersection because
you have the mansion houses on

1871
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:27,400
the north and east, which is
where that is where we're

1872
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,160
standing right here is that is
the Joseph Smith senior

1873
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:33,200
residence.
This is where his house, their

1874
01:42:33,440 --> 01:42:36,160
their house was.
So this is Lucy Mack Smith

1875
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,960
right.
And that's and this is this was

1876
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:44,320
their their house here I got I
got dirt on my face hey I had a

1877
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:49,120
hair in back too.
Anyway, so then on on on the

1878
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:51,800
northwest side is just kind of a
park area.

1879
01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:55,680
And just on the on the on the
South side of that, just West of

1880
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:58,960
this where we're standing right
here is Joseph, Joseph and

1881
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,400
Emma's first homes.
OK.

1882
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:06,040
The log home and the frame home.
OK, but I wanted to show you

1883
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:08,680
this.
This is me working on the front

1884
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:12,280
stoop of go to Smith's seniors
residence, his home.

1885
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:16,560
OK, so I'm down there just
carefully digging stuff out,

1886
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:17,960
making sure you don't miss
anything.

1887
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:22,480
You don't even wanna miss beat
or a coin or a button or

1888
01:43:22,480 --> 01:43:24,760
anything, right.
Anyway, so we're working on

1889
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:28,800
that.
I'm just digging this, this this

1890
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:32,760
thing out the the the the wall
there just in front of me is

1891
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:37,000
actually the front, the front
wall of their home and the and

1892
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:40,360
the the the rocks that made-up
their their stoop or their ports

1893
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:42,040
have already been taken up and
they're gone.

1894
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:45,680
So we're just underneath the
underneath the in the dirt where

1895
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:48,360
they where the porch was.
OK, right.

1896
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:50,520
All right.
There's that.

1897
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:54,160
Hey there, I am having some fun.
Got the little, got the little

1898
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:56,800
sweeper thing to sweep stuff off
with you know, so you don't

1899
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:58,040
disturb things too much.
OK.

1900
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:02,200
Anyway, so there's the Mansion
House, the little bit better

1901
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:04,280
shot of that you can see that
that's some of that has been

1902
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,880
taken down.
It was fell into kind of

1903
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:09,560
disrepair and the community of
Christ basically decided that

1904
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:11,880
they they were just going to
keep the the kind of the

1905
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:13,640
original structure of it.
So they did.

1906
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:16,320
There's a little bit closer up
picture of that.

1907
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:17,880
So you can see the Mansion House
there.

1908
01:44:18,440 --> 01:44:23,040
Now this was actually, it's kind
of sad, but this was a fairly

1909
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:26,440
recent picture.
Previously there were some

1910
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:29,280
really large big trees just like
the trees in back and on the

1911
01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:31,160
side.
And you can hardly see the

1912
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:34,080
Mansion House because it was had
these big trees in front of it a

1913
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:36,560
few years ago, but they've taken
all those trees out now.

1914
01:44:37,440 --> 01:44:41,400
This is actually looking now to
the let's see, look, this is

1915
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:43,960
looking to the east.
You can see the parking lot

1916
01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:46,680
there and there's and the space
in front where all the dirt is.

1917
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:51,200
That's where the dig had been
happening the summer before.

1918
01:44:51,680 --> 01:44:54,680
Oh, wow.
So they so they kind of they

1919
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:57,200
they kind of you know covered
that back up and so forth.

1920
01:44:57,240 --> 01:44:58,800
And Frank, this is the other
side note.

1921
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:01,720
So what one morning we got up
and we we, we were there working

1922
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:04,960
on it and there was this big box
turtle that came up out of the

1923
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:08,040
river and it fell into the dig
and they couldn't get back out.

1924
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:09,760
So we had to help it back down
to the river.

1925
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:14,920
All right.
And looking across the street,

1926
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:18,520
basically if you look across the
street then this is on the right

1927
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:22,120
hand side, that is the, that's
Joseph, Joseph and Emma's

1928
01:45:22,120 --> 01:45:25,560
original cabin, right.
And then there's their their

1929
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:29,200
frame home that they built a
little bit after that and you

1930
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:31,440
can see the well there on the
side there and you see the

1931
01:45:31,440 --> 01:45:32,800
Mississippi River in the
background.

1932
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:36,200
They're literally on the Bank of
the of the Mississippi River.

1933
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:39,440
Yeah, which I'm going to tell
you a little I hope.

1934
01:45:39,440 --> 01:45:41,960
I hope your listeners are ready
for a little surprise here.

1935
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:44,920
Are you ready?
I'm ready for Are you ready,

1936
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:46,440
Dave?
All right, all right.

1937
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,560
This, this, this may be a bit of
a mind blower here, but OK, so

1938
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:54,880
that's the Red brick store.
If you go back to this picture,

1939
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:57,400
the Red Brick store is is
further off to the right hand

1940
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:02,080
side and in between the the the
in between this picture and the

1941
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:05,840
Red Brick store, the first thing
you come to is the Smith family

1942
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:11,800
cemetery where Joseph Smith Emma
and Hiram and Lucy Mack and and

1943
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:13,400
and Joseph Smith senior and so
forth.

1944
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:16,160
They're all buried there along
with about 30 other you know

1945
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:20,720
Smith family you know
descendants and stuff anyway and

1946
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:22,880
then but then there's a little
park area in between I'm going

1947
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:24,040
to see show you a couple of
pictures.

1948
01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:26,520
So this is kind of showing a
little bit of that park area.

1949
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:28,560
You can see the river there in
the background and the and the

1950
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,920
Red Brick store which is which
is so significant.

1951
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,560
Yeah.
These these are places that the

1952
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:39,080
community of Christ has had and
they've taken wonderful care of

1953
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:41,080
them.
We we again we wanted our hats

1954
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:44,160
are off to the community of
Christ and and and all their

1955
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:47,400
efforts to keep these places up
and make them you know keep them

1956
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:52,320
nice and so forth right.
But anyway, so and what's

1957
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:56,440
fascinating also, if you ever go
there, if you go on the other

1958
01:46:56,440 --> 01:46:59,880
side of the Red brick store from
here and you look back towards

1959
01:46:59,880 --> 01:47:03,560
the Red Brick Store, you will
see that it actually is located

1960
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:06,160
on a mound.
Really.

1961
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:09,400
Yeah, Take a look at where that
little blue car is.

1962
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:11,960
Yeah, I can see how it.
Drops off on the other side.

1963
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:12,720
Yep.
Yeah.

1964
01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:15,800
It literally drops off on the
other side of the Red Brick

1965
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:20,040
store and and and and so this
is, so this is what I'm gonna,

1966
01:47:20,240 --> 01:47:22,200
I'm gonna show you.
So this is looking a little bit

1967
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,120
the other direction.
So you can see the Smith family

1968
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:29,120
cemetery in fact right here that
is where Joseph Smith and Emma

1969
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:32,320
and Hiram are buried, that
they're they're in this granite

1970
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:35,560
vault right here.
OK, then there's this little

1971
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:38,440
shed right here.
And then over here is the is the

1972
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:44,480
the the log home and then back
behind that over here is the is

1973
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:46,320
the frame home.
But actually no that's the

1974
01:47:47,440 --> 01:47:50,200
anyway doesn't matter anyway.
So this this big area, this big

1975
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:53,680
park area in between here, I
can't remember if I got this

1976
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:56,120
other picture of that or not.
No, I don't.

1977
01:47:56,120 --> 01:48:04,320
OK, wait, wait, wait.
OK, now it's under that picture.

1978
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:10,080
OK, yeah, this park area.
So probably about 10 or 12 years

1979
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:13,160
ago, maybe even longer than
that, the the community of

1980
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:16,720
Christ needed to put a new
electrical service into the red

1981
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,720
brick store because it it it's
it's become outdated and was

1982
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:21,680
wasn't, wasn't reliable and so
forth.

1983
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:24,800
Anyway, so they got one of those
big dish which is you know that

1984
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:29,240
came that comes out that that
that that big trencher comes in

1985
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,640
and they're going along the side
to sidewalk right around in here

1986
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:36,200
like like right right here to
put that that a new electrical

1987
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:39,840
line into the red brick store.
And when they were doing that

1988
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:43,600
they were watching it and all of
a sudden bones start flying up

1989
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:45,920
out of the dirt.
So they stop the trenches.

1990
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:47,320
They hold on, hold, whoa, hold
on.

1991
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:49,040
OK.
And then and then so they go

1992
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:50,960
over there and they and they
look at them and they're human

1993
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,000
bones.
Holy cow.

1994
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:56,280
Okay.
So they had to stop the digging

1995
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,400
and they did what they call it a
salvage archaeological digs.

1996
01:48:59,400 --> 01:49:02,520
This is not with full
archaeological protocols.

1997
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:07,440
This is actually there's coming
with kind of shovels and just

1998
01:49:07,440 --> 01:49:10,920
trying to remove everything
archaeologically as quickly as

1999
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:13,800
they can, document what they can
take pictures and so forth.

2000
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,080
But then they have to get out of
the way so they can get this

2001
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,120
done right.
So they don't want it to take,

2002
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:20,720
you know six months or a year,
which is what an archaeological

2003
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:25,880
dig will a lot of times take And
so so they so they did that.

2004
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:30,880
Interestingly enough, they found
that in this area right in here.

2005
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:35,000
So the Smith family is buried in
within this fence line here and

2006
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,680
over here on this side of the
same mound or bluff if you will

2007
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:49,840
is a as a as a minimum 25
skeletons, human skeletons and

2008
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,920
along with the skeletons were
found artifacts and the

2009
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:56,960
artifacts are Hopewell Mound
Builder artifacts.

2010
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:01,240
Whoa.
Which means that if this is the

2011
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:05,280
case and and and let me let me
see if I can find those other

2012
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:06,840
pictures here.
But let's go through a couple

2013
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:08,600
more pictures.
I want to show you some of the

2014
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:10,360
artifacts.
So that's that's just a picture

2015
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:12,320
of Nauvoo.
OK.

2016
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,120
This is one of the mounds on the
curly property just north of

2017
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:18,720
Nauvoo.
You can see it.

2018
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:20,080
I mean you can see it as clear
as day.

2019
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:21,960
I mean it's it's a big beautiful
mound here.

2020
01:50:22,480 --> 01:50:24,720
OK.
This lady works worked for the

2021
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:26,840
community of Christ.
She is in the basement of the

2022
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:30,480
red brick store in this
photograph she these are some of

2023
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:33,320
the the the pottery and things
that have been found there in

2024
01:50:33,320 --> 01:50:37,320
the archaeological digs by the
community of Christ in Naavu

2025
01:50:37,480 --> 01:50:41,200
with the I I dig Naavu program.
OK with that Paul Debarth kind

2026
01:50:41,200 --> 01:50:44,240
of put together.
So she is actually the expert on

2027
01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:46,680
taking all the all the
individual pieces and she's the

2028
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:51,640
ultimate puzzle puzzle person.
She she takes 3D puzzles

2029
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:55,120
basically these actual artifacts
and she and they and they take

2030
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:57,640
all the pieces and parts and she
tries to put them back together

2031
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:00,760
again and you can see some of
her work there in the background

2032
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:03,360
because not everything.
Sometimes you don't find every

2033
01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:07,160
piece because animals and things
haul stuff off and or maybe just

2034
01:51:07,160 --> 01:51:08,880
you know it might be just a foot
away from where the

2035
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:11,280
archaeological dig actually
happened but they never found

2036
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:12,920
it.
You know that kind of thing.

2037
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,800
Here she is with a with a
beautiful bowl that was the

2038
01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:20,560
again the Naboo period and she's
putting the pieces and so forth

2039
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:22,120
together to to put that
together.

2040
01:51:23,080 --> 01:51:29,360
But this look right here this my
friend is some of the artifacts

2041
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:33,360
that have been found and the
middle Woodland period is the

2042
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:38,160
Hopewell Mound builder period.
The vast majority of these are

2043
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:42,280
are are woodland Other words
this is all Book of Mormon time

2044
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:43,680
frames.
Gotcha.

2045
01:51:43,680 --> 01:51:46,840
All of these all these artifacts
that you see all in here these

2046
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:49,360
these arrowheads, these points,
these scrapers and so forth that

2047
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:51,880
are here.
This is a this is a drill here,

2048
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:54,360
the a broken piece of drill
here.

2049
01:51:54,680 --> 01:52:00,640
So for all of these our hope on
Mound Builder and again may I,

2050
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:04,720
may I just for a second time
just mention the fact that we we

2051
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,440
in the Heartland model, you know
Book of Mormon geography believe

2052
01:52:08,440 --> 01:52:10,720
that the hope on Mound Builder
people are the Nephites.

2053
01:52:11,080 --> 01:52:14,280
Right.
So there were also, I don't, I

2054
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:16,960
don't have pictures of this, but
there were also platform pipes

2055
01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:20,040
that were found when they did
this dig with the with, you know

2056
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:22,280
along the river there.
Let me go back to that picture

2057
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:23,920
here.
So when they were doing this,

2058
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:27,240
they found platform pipes which
are, which are absolutely

2059
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:29,400
indicative of the hope, right,
Because the other people before

2060
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:33,160
and after didn't do that kind of
thing and they they date into

2061
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:34,680
the right time frames and so
forth.

2062
01:52:36,200 --> 01:52:42,160
Let me just put it this way.
What if Joseph Smith and Hiram

2063
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:45,320
and Lucy and all of the Smith
family are literally buried in a

2064
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,680
Nephite cemetery on the banks of
the Riverside?

2065
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,720
The repercussions of that are
just massive.

2066
01:52:55,240 --> 01:53:00,800
I mean again the the I.
Think that's just fascinating?

2067
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:02,800
The.
The Yeah, I mean.

2068
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:05,040
Have you ever heard that before,
Dave?

2069
01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:08,000
I have not this is a first.
This is a first I.

2070
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:10,000
I thought that would be a kind
of a first one for you.

2071
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:12,360
Yeah.
No, that that one's a first.

2072
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:13,640
I would thank you for sharing
that.

2073
01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:16,720
That is awesome.
That is absolutely awesome.

2074
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:19,840
Yeah.
Now let's go back to this.

2075
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:23,440
So, so as far as archaeological
science, this is, this is a map

2076
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:30,360
that was in the in the the Dixon
Mounds Museum in in Ohio.

2077
01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:34,560
In fact, this this Dixon Mounds
Museum was about 35 minutes

2078
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:37,920
drive from Self Mound.
Oh, wow.

2079
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:41,160
OK.
If you go out to see Self Mound,

2080
01:53:41,400 --> 01:53:43,880
you got you got to go out to the
Dixon Mound Museum and and so

2081
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:51,600
for the curator out there just
Mr. Hearns basically and and and

2082
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:56,920
he is a he he in fact he he was
showing my videos for free to

2083
01:53:56,920 --> 01:54:01,600
the public at the museum for a
few years anyway.

2084
01:54:02,040 --> 01:54:04,160
But he had this map up in his
office.

2085
01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:09,000
This is, this is a map of the
the known archaeological finds,

2086
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:12,440
the archaeological finds of the
Mound Builders in the state of

2087
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:15,960
of Illinois.
And this is right this this is

2088
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:19,840
this is Naboo right here.
See that this this is where the

2089
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:21,480
big bend of the river is right
here.

2090
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:24,760
And you see all the all the
mounds along the embankment

2091
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:26,320
here.
They're all over here.

2092
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:29,480
I asked somebody said, so what's
the deal with this line right

2093
01:54:29,480 --> 01:54:32,400
here, this, this big line of of
of heavy stuff?

2094
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:36,280
He says well what happened was,
is that is a few years ago they

2095
01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:41,320
the the state funded to put a
big gas pipeline into the area,

2096
01:54:41,480 --> 01:54:45,240
into this area.
And it says when they do the gas

2097
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:47,600
lines, they have to, they have
to do archaeological work to

2098
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:49,800
make sure the gas lines not
going through the middle of, you

2099
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:51,960
know, some ancient site or
whatever, right.

2100
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:55,960
And so, so, so they have to do
surveys right on the general

2101
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:58,240
area of the of the pipeline, he
said.

2102
01:54:58,320 --> 01:55:03,720
And and he said right now they
know of at least 160,000 sites

2103
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:06,240
of Native American ancient stuff
there in Illinois.

2104
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:09,320
And he says he doubts that less
than 10% of the Illinois has

2105
01:55:09,320 --> 01:55:10,880
actually even been looked at
yet.

2106
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:16,480
Holy cow.
There's 160,000 sites so far and

2107
01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:19,520
this is just a small portion of
the Illinois map obviously.

2108
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,960
I just wanted to to point out
that this is close to to to

2109
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:25,600
Naboo.
You know the the part that that

2110
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:29,240
my eyes went to as well as over
on the the right hand side there

2111
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:32,600
you have almost a straight line,
yeah.

2112
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:36,240
Right there, that's another
pipeline, he said.

2113
01:55:36,240 --> 01:55:39,760
He says if if we put a pipeline,
you know, you know, a a a half a

2114
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:42,760
mile away from this pipeline and
we and we did the surveys on it,

2115
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:46,080
it would probably look the same
way because there's so many

2116
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,840
sites, He says in Illinois there
are so many sites that actually

2117
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:52,000
would be harder to find a place
that doesn't have a site than

2118
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:53,400
one that does.
Holy cow.

2119
01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:57,720
That's how that's how
concentrated the Hopewell mall

2120
01:55:57,720 --> 01:55:59,560
builder and the mall builders
and the ancient sites.

2121
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:01,360
I I'm not sure if this is just
Hopewell.

2122
01:56:01,360 --> 01:56:04,440
I think this is actually
including, you know, the Adena,

2123
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:06,560
the Hopewell and the
Mississippian cultures.

2124
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:09,880
But they're all the they're all
the ancient Native American

2125
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:13,400
cultures that were here, you
know, in the Jaredite time

2126
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:16,000
frame, the Nephite time frame,
and then and then after that.

2127
01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:18,760
OK.
So that just kind of gives you

2128
01:56:18,760 --> 01:56:21,480
an idea that this is another
shot of some of those, some of

2129
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:24,160
those artifacts here, site
identification numbers in here.

2130
01:56:24,160 --> 01:56:28,200
If you take a look at that you
know description, you know the

2131
01:56:28,200 --> 01:56:32,880
Hancock site, Mansion House and
latrines site, the Theodore

2132
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:36,000
Turley site, the really lost
store site, the Hiram Smith

2133
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:41,320
site, the Homestead site, the
Red Brick store site, Joseph

2134
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:44,520
Rick Stable and the and the
Joseph Smith and Lucy Mack Smith

2135
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:51,200
Porter Rockwell site.
So this is the the the lot here

2136
01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:54,480
the the the item number within
the lot number so.

2137
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:58,920
So see that all that that that
that's Middle Woodland yeah 2200

2138
01:56:58,920 --> 01:57:05,040
BC to 1800 AD well 20 you know
this is 8-18 hundred to 12:50

2139
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:08,960
but 2200 BC that's 200 BC,
right.

2140
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:14,080
Yeah excuse me the two 2200 BC
that's a that's a that's a

2141
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:19,320
that's not yeah.
Anyway, they this is the I think

2142
01:57:19,320 --> 01:57:24,160
that dating is is kind of odd
there, but because Midland

2143
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:26,160
Woodland did not go back that
far.

2144
01:57:26,360 --> 01:57:29,480
No, I was gonna say that's like,
what, 3000 years?

2145
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:30,960
Yeah.
Thousand years?

2146
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:32,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

2147
01:57:32,680 --> 01:57:36,000
So anyway but that so that shows
you the the late archaic and

2148
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:38,520
that kind of stuff.
So that's that's a little bit of

2149
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:40,440
the some of the the artifacts in
there.

2150
01:57:40,440 --> 01:57:42,840
This is another mound.
This is actually not a mound.

2151
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:46,440
This is actually a ramp on the
curly residence that actually

2152
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:51,720
goes up to a a a a huge fortress
fortification site just north of

2153
01:57:51,720 --> 01:57:54,760
Nabu.
Again Hopewell mound builder

2154
01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:56,200
stuff.
This is a ramp the people are

2155
01:57:56,200 --> 01:57:57,560
standing on.
You can see it on both sides.

2156
01:57:57,560 --> 01:57:59,840
It's the ramp on this side and
this side and it goes up to the

2157
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:02,880
top of this thing.
Isn't that a picture of the of

2158
01:58:03,040 --> 01:58:08,000
the of the of So the main the
main house there.

2159
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:11,520
This is on the front side so
that the the, the, the cabin is

2160
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:14,080
on the backside of this and you
can see the well over here on

2161
01:58:14,080 --> 01:58:19,200
the right hand side there.
OK right other beautiful picture

2162
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:23,640
from the drone of the of the of
the Joseph and and Hiram statue

2163
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:25,760
and the and the and the Nabu
temple there.

2164
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:29,960
I had a chance to drive to fly
the drone a lot back because I I

2165
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:33,720
had I had probably one of the
earliest drones that share in

2166
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:36,800
the United States.
So I was shooting drone shots

2167
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:40,040
before they were all banned.
And whatever, you can't take

2168
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:41,760
drone shots.
That's hardly anywhere anymore.

2169
01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:45,840
But anyway, but that's just I
wanted to show you those images.

2170
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:48,120
But there you go.
I'm gonna stop the share there.

2171
01:58:48,240 --> 01:58:51,880
OK, All right.
So what are we, Where are we at

2172
01:58:51,880 --> 01:58:53,640
here?
So I think we're we're going to

2173
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:55,800
wind down here pretty quick.
But there's there's some really

2174
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:58,480
fascinating stuff about this the
Naboo site.

2175
01:58:58,760 --> 01:59:01,560
So a couple of other things that
the church ended up buying the

2176
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:06,600
the, the, the, the, the Salt
Lake church basically as as we

2177
01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:11,360
ended up with the the, the, the
Mansion House, the Red Brick

2178
01:59:11,360 --> 01:59:14,360
store.
Now that does not include the

2179
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:16,800
Smith Family Cemetery.
I'm not sure if that's because

2180
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:20,360
the state owns the cemetery.
I don't know if the community of

2181
01:59:20,360 --> 01:59:23,120
Christ does if maybe it's not
even available.

2182
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:27,600
But but there's also a visitor
center and also AI think it's a

2183
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:31,320
stake Center for the community
of Christ that are that are

2184
01:59:31,320 --> 01:59:33,160
still there and they still own
those.

2185
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:36,240
I I understand that we're in
some kind of negotiation right

2186
01:59:36,240 --> 01:59:39,320
now for the visitor center
building and land.

2187
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:43,200
I don't know about the other
one, the other stake center that

2188
01:59:43,200 --> 01:59:45,640
that may they may be maybe the
community crisis probably

2189
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:47,600
keeping that one I guess.
I don't know exactly what the

2190
01:59:47,600 --> 01:59:51,360
plan is, but but the bottom line
is, is that like like you said

2191
01:59:51,360 --> 01:59:55,040
in the in the opener you said
that you know you go there a lot

2192
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:57,640
of times you couldn't get in
because you had to basically be

2193
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:00,480
on a tour.
Those tours by the way, were

2194
02:00:00,480 --> 02:00:03,760
fantastic though.
You know, the commuter tries to

2195
02:00:03,760 --> 02:00:06,280
do a great, great job, but they
only did a couple of them a day.

2196
02:00:06,520 --> 02:00:09,600
And so unless you actually went
there specifically to take a

2197
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:11,760
tour, a lot of times it just
didn't work out with people's

2198
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:13,720
schedules and they would just go
to the rest of NAU.

2199
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:18,560
But but now.
With the church taking it over

2200
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:20,280
that they'll have the
missionaries there all the time

2201
02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:23,760
and you should be able to just
go and just you know do that I I

2202
02:00:23,760 --> 02:00:27,560
know that they they do also
recommend now tours but the

2203
02:00:27,560 --> 02:00:31,600
tours for every 20 or 30 minutes
not you know twice a day.

2204
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:34,600
So you should be able to work
your your your way into a tour

2205
02:00:35,280 --> 02:00:38,200
and then you can go see the red
brick store in the Mansion House

2206
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:40,800
and the and I think it was
called the endowment house at

2207
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:43,640
1st and now it's called the Nabu
something.

2208
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:48,880
The Nabu house I think it's
called anyway so the if if you

2209
02:00:48,880 --> 02:00:51,960
go to Naavu there's also a flood
museum that some of our heart

2210
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:54,880
man's friends have have put
together as they they're talking

2211
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:58,640
about Mellah's flood it's it's
awesome there the curly burial

2212
02:00:58,640 --> 02:01:01,480
mounds or something you can't go
see without knowing the curly's

2213
02:01:02,040 --> 02:01:05,200
but it is just absolutely
phenomenal to see that the

2214
02:01:05,200 --> 02:01:08,160
amount of mounds that they have
on their property and that then

2215
02:01:08,160 --> 02:01:09,920
literally are all around the
Naavu area.

2216
02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:13,600
So I think it's fascinating to
think that that Joseph and Emma

2217
02:01:14,120 --> 02:01:17,120
and the and and the early Saints
actually ended up settling in

2218
02:01:17,120 --> 02:01:20,360
the same place with the Nephites
were hanging out in the direct

2219
02:01:20,360 --> 02:01:22,520
in the Book of Mormon days.
Absolutely.

2220
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:27,720
If, if, if that model holds and
and I believe there's a lot to

2221
02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:33,360
give credence there to that
that's just another just another

2222
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:39,280
witness of of of not only the
Book of Mormon but Joseph's

2223
02:01:39,280 --> 02:01:43,200
divine calling.
Yeah, I am super excited to be

2224
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:47,880
able to tour the Red Brick store
just because I mean in those

2225
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:50,960
upper rooms that's where the
first endowment is done, right,

2226
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:55,760
the OR or an endowment that we
would recognize as as Mormons,

2227
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:59,640
right and.
And also it's the it's the place

2228
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:03,680
where the where the oldest, the
oldest ongoing women's

2229
02:02:03,680 --> 02:02:05,600
organization in the world was
organized.

2230
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:13,240
Yeah, the the Relief Society.
Yeah, it's so, you know, I often

2231
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:15,920
put it this way.
I don't know if it's accurate,

2232
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:19,200
but I I usually say from the
Brigham Mike tradition, right?

2233
02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:23,600
This carries some very
heavyweight here, right?

2234
02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:29,080
I mean, this is a big deal.
And and if if there's one thing

2235
02:02:29,080 --> 02:02:32,680
that that I will continue to be
grateful for with the LDS

2236
02:02:32,680 --> 02:02:36,240
Church, it is certainly their
ability to keep that open to the

2237
02:02:36,240 --> 02:02:38,880
public, right?
And be able to be accommodating

2238
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:42,600
to that 'cause it is important
history and anytime you can go

2239
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:47,360
experience history rather than
just read about it, it's a

2240
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:49,640
different feel.
I mean, that's really what took

2241
02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:51,240
me all the way to the Eastern
Shore of Maryland.

2242
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:54,360
As a guy who's huge on the
American founding, I'm like,

2243
02:02:54,920 --> 02:02:57,400
well, let's just go, right?
Let's just go out there, let's

2244
02:02:57,400 --> 02:03:00,840
just do those things.
And so to to to be able to have

2245
02:03:00,840 --> 02:03:04,200
that now I I just I I think it's
huge.

2246
02:03:05,280 --> 02:03:07,760
So, so many people were really
disappointed by the fact that

2247
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:10,320
they go, they go to Naavu, they
go see the temple and they go,

2248
02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:13,520
yeah, OK, that's awesome.
And they go into the upper,

2249
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:15,720
upper Naavu and they go down to
the lower, lower Naavu.

2250
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:18,280
And they can go through the, you
know, the tin shop and the and

2251
02:03:18,280 --> 02:03:20,760
the the Browning store, you
know, the Browning, you know,

2252
02:03:20,760 --> 02:03:24,320
gun manufacturing thing and and
and make nails and do all this

2253
02:03:24,320 --> 02:03:27,040
kind of stuff.
But two of the most significant

2254
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:30,560
buildings in all of Naavu were
pretty much closed.

2255
02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:33,880
You know, I mean who doesn't
want to go to the Mansion House

2256
02:03:33,880 --> 02:03:36,640
and see where Joseph and Nemeth
kind of ended up right there

2257
02:03:36,640 --> 02:03:39,040
when when when he died that's
where he was late in state.

2258
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:42,160
He and he and I were late in
state for a couple days there in

2259
02:03:42,160 --> 02:03:44,920
the Mansion House before they
were moved to the temple and

2260
02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:47,720
then and then also the red brick
store where so many significant

2261
02:03:47,720 --> 02:03:51,680
things happened and and yeah
it's it's just it's I'm grateful

2262
02:03:51,680 --> 02:03:54,920
that that those those places
have been preserved And again

2263
02:03:55,280 --> 02:03:58,440
hats off to the community of
Christ and all the the wonderful

2264
02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:02,040
people and members and and
volunteers and people that have

2265
02:04:02,040 --> 02:04:05,440
helped to keep those places you
know intact and and keep them

2266
02:04:05,440 --> 02:04:08,280
going.
But hopefully we can we can we

2267
02:04:08,280 --> 02:04:12,520
can do keep that preservation
going long into the future now

2268
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,600
with the with the the the the
funding that has been you know

2269
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:18,680
brought about by by the
purchase.

2270
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:21,040
So again, I think it's a great
idea.

2271
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:24,720
I'm glad, I'm glad to see it's
it's happening again.

2272
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:28,880
Somewhat melancholy about the
about, you know, the transfer of

2273
02:04:28,880 --> 02:04:31,440
ownership because they, you know
that these these people are just

2274
02:04:31,440 --> 02:04:35,600
wonderful, you know, deep
believers in the gospel and and

2275
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:39,080
in the Book of Mormon and we
love them and and so, you know,

2276
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:43,440
there, there we go.
What do you think?

2277
02:04:45,680 --> 02:04:48,280
What do you think the big
significance is of these

2278
02:04:48,280 --> 02:04:51,800
purchases?
Is it just people being able to

2279
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:56,840
experience it or do you see more
research on the horizon in, in

2280
02:04:56,840 --> 02:05:00,200
and around these buildings?
Different research maybe?

2281
02:05:00,200 --> 02:05:04,680
Do you Do you have a sense of
where this takes us as a people

2282
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:08,600
now, the the Mormon people
across all its various

2283
02:05:08,600 --> 02:05:10,200
Incarnate?
I I think, I think ease of

2284
02:05:10,200 --> 02:05:13,040
access is going to be nice for
everybody but you know

2285
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:18,000
restoration branches or you know
the the the the the Salt Lake

2286
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:20,880
church whatever.
You know I think I think that

2287
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:24,360
that gives a lot of ability for
people to come and just

2288
02:05:24,360 --> 02:05:29,600
experience things.
I do think that that the that

2289
02:05:29,600 --> 02:05:33,400
having everything available in
Naavu to be able to go and visit

2290
02:05:33,400 --> 02:05:35,320
is, is is gonna be a positive
thing.

2291
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:39,400
I think it'll bring more more
visitation basically out there

2292
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,240
to the area which the I know the
area out there is is you know

2293
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:45,560
very you know it's a depressed
area they you know they they

2294
02:05:46,560 --> 02:05:48,960
there's just there's no, there's
no industry really there very

2295
02:05:48,960 --> 02:05:51,880
little industry there's not much
going on there and so people

2296
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:55,520
were pretty you know hard
pressed for for jobs and stuff

2297
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:57,480
out there.
So that's that hopefully will

2298
02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:00,720
bring in some more some more
help from that aspect of it.

2299
02:06:01,400 --> 02:06:06,320
I think on on in the bigger
picture I think places matter.

2300
02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:09,720
It's the reason why I do
geography research, You know, I

2301
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:11,760
think.
I think where Christ was

2302
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:15,480
crucified was is important.
I think.

2303
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:18,840
I think where the first vision
occurred, I think knowing where

2304
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:21,080
that is is, is the is a
blessing.

2305
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:24,720
And I think it's important.
I think when when God and Christ

2306
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:30,440
come to a place, there's a
spirit that's endued into that,

2307
02:06:30,440 --> 02:06:33,720
into the very real estate, into
the very ground that we're

2308
02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:36,480
walking on.
And a lot of times people can

2309
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:38,320
feel it.
I mean, if you're sensitive to

2310
02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:39,840
those kinds of things.
There's a residue.

2311
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:41,800
Yeah, there's a residue that's
left.

2312
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:43,960
I agree with you.
Yeah, yeah, there's there's

2313
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,640
there's kind of a, there's
there's a different feeling

2314
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:48,400
about it.
So when you when you go into

2315
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:53,200
places like Kirtland, when you
walk up into the into the the

2316
02:06:53,240 --> 02:06:56,080
other the school of the province
and you know that in this like a

2317
02:06:56,680 --> 02:07:01,000
tiny little room like 12 feet by
12 feet square with with with 15

2318
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:03,600
guys in there and Christ shows
up.

2319
02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:07,520
I mean they're literally within
within the touching distance.

2320
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:10,040
They could reach out and touch
the savior of the world right

2321
02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:12,160
there in that tiny little room.
And the and the fact that he

2322
02:07:12,160 --> 02:07:16,000
would condescend into some tiny
little space like that kind of

2323
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:19,200
gives us a really a hope that
that that basically God can know

2324
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:21,480
each one of us on a personal
level.

2325
02:07:22,040 --> 02:07:23,600
Yeah.
I I wondered as a kid how in the

2326
02:07:23,600 --> 02:07:25,480
world does that happen.
I mean ability, the people.

2327
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:29,000
How does God do all that?
I I I still don't know how that

2328
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:30,760
happens.
I just know that it happens.

2329
02:07:31,040 --> 02:07:34,200
Yeah, because I because I I've,
I've felt that myself.

2330
02:07:34,200 --> 02:07:37,200
I've had that, that confirmation
that God knows who you are.

2331
02:07:37,200 --> 02:07:40,760
He knows who I am that I don't
think it's any coincidence that

2332
02:07:40,760 --> 02:07:42,160
we're having this interview
tonight.

2333
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:45,320
I don't either, you know.
Hopefully it'll bless people's

2334
02:07:45,320 --> 02:07:48,840
lives and and and cause them to
have greater faith and and

2335
02:07:48,840 --> 02:07:51,960
remain in the truth.
I mean, the gospel of Jesus

2336
02:07:51,960 --> 02:07:55,440
Christ is is true and it's
faithful and if we and if we

2337
02:07:55,440 --> 02:07:57,120
stay in it, it's going to be
awesome.

2338
02:07:57,520 --> 02:08:00,320
Although we're going to go
through some crazy times I think

2339
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:04,320
and very soon again that makes
any hard predictions.

2340
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:07,200
I'm just saying that the signs
are are just they're pouring in

2341
02:08:07,200 --> 02:08:11,200
from all different directions
now and I just see that that's

2342
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:14,880
something that we need to be
aware of so we don't get taken

2343
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:18,560
like a thief for the night.
So Dave, I I I do appreciate

2344
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:19,320
that.
Do you have any more?

2345
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:22,280
Any more thoughts, questions,
concerns, just?

2346
02:08:23,160 --> 02:08:25,880
Just thankful for what you do
and and I couldn't agree with

2347
02:08:25,880 --> 02:08:30,400
you more on what you said about
about the Savior right and and

2348
02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:34,520
at at the end of this this is
what it's really all about right

2349
02:08:34,680 --> 02:08:38,640
We the the history is fun and
it's something that we should

2350
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:42,320
pay attention to it.
I I think we have a duty to do

2351
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:45,560
that.
But at the end of the day that

2352
02:08:45,560 --> 02:08:48,600
that's really what it's about
and and there's a reason I love

2353
02:08:48,600 --> 02:08:52,600
third Nephi 17 so much 'cause I
think it paints perhaps the

2354
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:54,600
clearest picture of who the
Savior is.

2355
02:08:55,080 --> 02:09:00,560
Just, you know, bring everybody
let let him do his his work of

2356
02:09:00,880 --> 02:09:05,160
mending broken hearts mending
bodies and and that's really

2357
02:09:05,160 --> 02:09:10,640
what all this should testify of
is it's of Jesus Christ and God,

2358
02:09:10,640 --> 02:09:13,440
our eternal Father above
everything else.

2359
02:09:13,440 --> 02:09:18,480
So if if if anybody has the the
capability of of of of doing

2360
02:09:19,440 --> 02:09:21,280
their part in this whole
process.

2361
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:23,360
I mean the Community of Christ
has done their part.

2362
02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:28,480
You know the remnant churches
and and all the the faithful you

2363
02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:33,200
know you know Mormon groups and
so forth that that all that all

2364
02:09:33,240 --> 02:09:35,320
began with the restoration of
the gospel.

2365
02:09:36,440 --> 02:09:39,560
We've all played a part and
we'll continue to play a part

2366
02:09:39,800 --> 02:09:43,680
And so hopefully, you know it'd
be it'd be awesome if we could

2367
02:09:44,360 --> 02:09:48,400
be even more closely related as
brothers and sisters in the

2368
02:09:48,400 --> 02:09:50,960
gospel and then that kind of
thing and and not let our

2369
02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:53,080
differences.
I think we have so many more

2370
02:09:54,840 --> 02:09:59,720
things that we agree on then we
disagree on and and let's not

2371
02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:01,560
focus on the stuff that we
disagree on.

2372
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:04,320
Let's keep our minds focused on
that one.

2373
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:08,040
That one really important
individual in all of our lives

2374
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:09,880
and that's Jesus Christ.
Yep.

2375
02:10:10,200 --> 02:10:15,400
And also, since we all agree on
this, let's let's give Joseph

2376
02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:18,080
Smith his proper credit and due.
Absolutely.

2377
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:20,800
For being the prophet of this
dispensation and also let's

2378
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:22,840
let's give the book of worman
and all that and and the

2379
02:10:22,840 --> 02:10:26,640
prophets that were that
sacrificed so much to to to to

2380
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:29,600
to make those plates and to
write it all down and to keep

2381
02:10:29,600 --> 02:10:31,640
all that record and put it all
together.

2382
02:10:31,640 --> 02:10:34,920
And even when they're in in
struggles with the Lamanites and

2383
02:10:34,920 --> 02:10:38,440
trying to get killed and
everything that they yeah, that

2384
02:10:38,440 --> 02:10:40,120
they that they that they
performed.

2385
02:10:40,120 --> 02:10:43,720
They they did their job.
So let's all let's all, you know

2386
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:46,800
kick in what we can in our
individual lives and our

2387
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:50,840
families, in our, in our, in our
wards and our stakes in our in

2388
02:10:50,840 --> 02:10:53,960
our branches, in our in whatever
groups we're in our with our

2389
02:10:53,960 --> 02:10:57,920
friends, with our you know, and
and and everybody and just and

2390
02:10:57,960 --> 02:11:00,600
and try to focus on that's.
That's the important thing.

2391
02:11:01,200 --> 02:11:02,720
You know, I couldn't agree with
you more.

2392
02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:06,280
And that's the song I sang on
this podcast the whole time.

2393
02:11:06,280 --> 02:11:12,280
Because I've had, I've had just
about every faith tradition from

2394
02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:15,800
the Restoration I could, I could
think of on this podcast, the

2395
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:21,040
active LDS folks,
Fundamentalists, you know, all

2396
02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:27,520
over the map a a member of CES,
CES Bear was on here.

2397
02:11:29,360 --> 02:11:32,000
And you're right, there's more
that unites us and separates us.

2398
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:34,520
And I've said this on the
podcast many times, and I really

2399
02:11:34,520 --> 02:11:37,080
believe it.
We may not always be able to hug

2400
02:11:37,080 --> 02:11:39,520
it out on Sundays, but there's
no reason we shouldn't be able

2401
02:11:39,520 --> 02:11:41,840
to figure out how to work
together on Saturday and maybe

2402
02:11:41,840 --> 02:11:46,080
have dinner afterwards.
And I'm I'm, I'm a huge

2403
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:48,920
proponent of that.
Because really?

2404
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:50,760
I I think it's.
I think it's what Christ would

2405
02:11:50,760 --> 02:11:51,480
want us to do.
I'm.

2406
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:56,520
Sure, absolutely, absolutely.
And and you know what At at the

2407
02:11:56,520 --> 02:12:00,080
end of the day when when all
this is sorted out, we're all

2408
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:03,000
gonna be surprised about who's
there and who's not, right?

2409
02:12:03,560 --> 02:12:06,160
We'll we'll all be like, oh I
didn't see him not getting in

2410
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:10,760
and you know, no.
So we we we really are in the

2411
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:13,360
same boat and there's more that
separates us and unites us.

2412
02:12:13,360 --> 02:12:17,160
But dude, this was fun.
I I had a a great time.

2413
02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:19,200
I'm.
I'm so glad that that you came

2414
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:23,080
on and I tell all my guests this
and I really truly mean it.

2415
02:12:23,560 --> 02:12:26,040
Once you've been on here once
you got a standing invitation to

2416
02:12:26,040 --> 02:12:28,480
be on here again.
So dude, you discover something

2417
02:12:28,480 --> 02:12:31,320
cool and your research hit me
up.

2418
02:12:31,360 --> 02:12:32,720
Dude, I'd love to have you back
on.

2419
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:35,560
We've constantly got new stuff
so so probably the best way.

2420
02:12:35,560 --> 02:12:38,560
Maybe if you could take a quick
shout out to our website which

2421
02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:43,120
is which is Book of
wormenevidence.org and and that

2422
02:12:43,120 --> 02:12:47,400
that we've got oh gosh what is
it like like about two or 300

2423
02:12:47,640 --> 02:12:51,600
videos and and and and you know
dozens of articles and so forth

2424
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:54,880
on the website itself.
If you wanna do a deep dive into

2425
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:58,200
the book of Wormen then may I
recommend that you take a look

2426
02:12:58,200 --> 02:13:01,000
at our streaming website.
We have the the largest

2427
02:13:01,400 --> 02:13:03,800
repository of information and
research that's ever been

2428
02:13:03,800 --> 02:13:08,840
assembled from I think this this
coming April here.

2429
02:13:08,840 --> 02:13:12,280
In another month or so we're
going to be we're going to be

2430
02:13:12,400 --> 02:13:16,600
having our our 34th consecutive
International Book of Mormon

2431
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:20,120
Evidence Conference here in
Sandy UT and would like to

2432
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:22,960
invite all of our all our our
our friends.

2433
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:26,120
If you love the Book of Mormon
there's there's there's no

2434
02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:28,320
there's no other conference like
it in the world.

2435
02:13:28,360 --> 02:13:31,600
I mean there really isn't We
have like I think it's 75

2436
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:35,480
speakers and 130 classes in
three days and that's April

2437
02:13:35,480 --> 02:13:38,640
that's the 18th, 19th and 20th I
think it's a Thursday, Friday

2438
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:42,160
you know it's yeah Thursday,
Friday and Saturday and then and

2439
02:13:42,160 --> 02:13:44,400
then we take all of those we
record everything.

2440
02:13:44,400 --> 02:13:47,480
We have six different venues
going on simultaneously.

2441
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:50,800
So you can pick, take your pick
of one of six speakers basically

2442
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:53,040
and you go to them.
If you can't see everybody,

2443
02:13:53,040 --> 02:13:54,520
that's OK because they're
recording everybody.

2444
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:58,120
And and then and then we have a
streaming website with over 1500

2445
02:13:58,520 --> 02:14:02,560
presentations on it on Book of
Mormon, self-reliance, Science

2446
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:07,240
of the Times, constitutional
studies, you know and those

2447
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:13,720
kinds of things from about over
450 experts in in, in in all

2448
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:15,440
kinds of different fields.
You don't, you don't have to be

2449
02:14:15,440 --> 02:14:17,520
even Mormon.
Many times we have

2450
02:14:17,520 --> 02:14:19,840
archaeologists and so forth that
have come and spoken at these

2451
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:22,960
conferences who are not even
LDS, but they're just talking

2452
02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:26,760
about the Hopewell or whatever.
And if you wanna do a really

2453
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:29,840
deep dive, then that's AI know
it's expensive.

2454
02:14:29,960 --> 02:14:34,120
I mean, I just got back from two
weeks on all over from

2455
02:14:34,120 --> 02:14:38,720
Washington, DC to LA to Idaho
and so forth.

2456
02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:42,720
You can't even buy, you know, a
jack-in-the-box through a

2457
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:45,720
McDonald's, you know, meal for
less than about, you know, 8 or

2458
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:50,560
9 or 10 bucks now, right?
And for 795 a month and 7797-A

2459
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:53,640
month, you can have access to
all 1500 of these sites.

2460
02:14:53,640 --> 02:14:56,280
You can watch it whenever you
want to on whatever device you

2461
02:14:56,280 --> 02:14:59,360
have.
It's it's really causing people

2462
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:05,320
to to be able to have a way to
find answers for questions that

2463
02:15:05,320 --> 02:15:07,960
their friends, their neighbors,
their family, their kids, their

2464
02:15:07,960 --> 02:15:12,080
grandkids have about the church
and the and the gospel and

2465
02:15:12,080 --> 02:15:13,960
about, you know, the Book of
Murmans specifically.

2466
02:15:13,960 --> 02:15:16,920
So there's a resource for you if
you want to, if you want to

2467
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:18,440
check it out.
Yeah.

2468
02:15:18,440 --> 02:15:21,280
We, we we also have our our
YouTube channel, which we, which

2469
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:25,680
we are doing pretty about what
we're doing about one or two per

2470
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:28,800
week right now.
You know, deep dives.

2471
02:15:29,120 --> 02:15:32,560
I just did one with Jonathan
Neville who is a Church

2472
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:37,160
Historian extraordinaire five
hour deep dive on what Joseph

2473
02:15:37,160 --> 02:15:39,880
Smith actually knew about the
geography of the Book of Mormon.

2474
02:15:39,880 --> 02:15:44,080
We we cover every stone that we
know of, you know, in the

2475
02:15:44,120 --> 02:15:48,160
historical accounts and
basically just here it is.

2476
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:51,840
Joseph Smith at least five or
six different times claimed

2477
02:15:51,840 --> 02:15:55,800
revelation that the Book of
Mormon and talked about stuff

2478
02:15:55,800 --> 02:15:58,280
that that verifies the Book of
Mormon happening here in the

2479
02:15:58,280 --> 02:16:02,200
heartland of North America.
I I can't.

2480
02:16:02,200 --> 02:16:04,440
I can't.
I'll tell you how much the the

2481
02:16:04,440 --> 02:16:07,040
the Book of Mormon Evidence
Conference when we were in Utah,

2482
02:16:07,040 --> 02:16:10,000
we went there, You had one in
the fall and one in the spring

2483
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:12,280
and we went to both of them and
I spent.

2484
02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:16,520
Look, here's here's the other
thing for you fellas.

2485
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:19,320
You love books.
What you're going to do is

2486
02:16:19,320 --> 02:16:21,400
you're going to go in there and
you're going to buy a ton of

2487
02:16:21,400 --> 02:16:22,840
books.
This is from experience.

2488
02:16:23,200 --> 02:16:24,400
You're going to buy a ton of
books.

2489
02:16:24,720 --> 02:16:28,640
And when your wife asks you how
much you spent, here's the

2490
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:31,360
response.
Honey, go buy some honey.

2491
02:16:31,360 --> 02:16:34,879
You should go buy some shoes
that that That will get you

2492
02:16:35,440 --> 02:16:37,440
pretty much out of the woods on
end of that.

2493
02:16:37,559 --> 02:16:39,360
I'll get you some mileage.
Right.

2494
02:16:40,400 --> 02:16:42,879
Gets you, gets you out of the,
you know, out of the dog house

2495
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:45,080
for at least a a week or so
maybe.

2496
02:16:45,080 --> 02:16:45,600
Yep.
Yeah.

2497
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:49,440
I would, I would, I would come,
you know, 'cause I always would

2498
02:16:49,440 --> 02:16:54,360
would be there from, like, open
to close, and Amber or Tanya

2499
02:16:54,360 --> 02:16:56,600
would walk in.
They'd be like, well, how much

2500
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:58,719
did you spend?
I'm like, you should go buy some

2501
02:16:58,719 --> 02:17:00,160
shoes.
That's what you need to do.

2502
02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:02,400
You need to you need to really
treat yourself.

2503
02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:04,360
You may even want to throw in a
spa day.

2504
02:17:04,799 --> 02:17:09,280
But God, this was, this was
super fun.

2505
02:17:09,400 --> 02:17:10,639
Let's do it again, brother.
That.

2506
02:17:11,200 --> 02:17:12,480
'D be right.
That'd be awesome.

2507
02:17:12,480 --> 02:17:13,680
Yeah, awesome.
I I don't.

2508
02:17:13,879 --> 02:17:16,080
Schedule wise it's going to be
kind of crazy because we've got

2509
02:17:16,080 --> 02:17:18,440
these torch coming up and it's
got we got our our big

2510
02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:21,480
conference coming up in April.
Yeah, all that kind of stuff.

2511
02:17:21,480 --> 02:17:25,000
So I mean don't yeah as as much
as I would love to you know

2512
02:17:25,160 --> 02:17:28,959
we've got we got a a lot of
stuff going on but brother I I I

2513
02:17:28,959 --> 02:17:31,160
really appreciate the
opportunity to share some

2514
02:17:31,160 --> 02:17:34,559
information I hope it's a it's a
it's helpful for your your

2515
02:17:34,559 --> 02:17:36,600
audience so yeah and love you
man.

2516
02:17:36,959 --> 02:17:39,360
And love you too.
And and and there's there's a

2517
02:17:39,360 --> 02:17:42,320
lot of folks in my circles that
that are a fan of what you do as

2518
02:17:42,320 --> 02:17:44,520
well.
So yeah, just whenever it fits

2519
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:45,920
in your schedule, you got
something new.

2520
02:17:45,920 --> 02:17:47,520
Hit me up.
I'd love to talk to you again.

2521
02:17:48,240 --> 02:17:51,600
Absolutely alright stranger.
You either?

2522
02:17:51,959 --> 02:17:54,680
All right, bye everybody.
Just a reminder, if you want to

2523
02:17:54,680 --> 02:17:57,600
check out this video that's
available at the Mormon Renegade

2524
02:17:57,799 --> 02:18:00,959
Rumble page, go there now, hit
that like button and subscribe.

2525
02:18:31,440 --> 02:18:34,160
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.